ATHF Posted October 19, 2009 Share Posted October 19, 2009 I take exception to the good pay comment. I have a friend who calles HS football in the area as well as fast-pitch softball from the Division I level on down. It's funny hearing his "war" stories but for the pay he gets, I think he'd be better off golfing and drinking with me. That guy spends endless amounts of time away from his wife and new-born son, and tons of money traveling to places like Reno, Nevada out of his own pocket for training just to be better. He's a good official, but the ROI stinks for him. When you factor in clinic fees, and travel expenses that guy barely breaks even. In my opinion, just like everything else in life, the UIL and these schools get what they pay for. And luckily my friend is the exception that proves the rule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drilsgt98 Posted October 19, 2009 Share Posted October 19, 2009 When you factor in clinic fees, and travel expenses that guys barely breaks even. In my opinion, just like everything else in life, the UIL and these schools get what they pay for. And luckily my friend is the exception that proves the rule. Good observation. I have never had a year when I broke even at the high school level. There are many officials in East Texas who work very hard, go the extra mile and puts lot's of effort into becoming better. There are also a few who put little to no effort into it. Officiating is like any other job, some do well, others manage to get by and a few need to be terminated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ssgmp5150 Posted October 19, 2009 Share Posted October 19, 2009 I agree that the UIL and school district's get what they pay for sometimes. Until they can significantly increase the pay and travel allowance, etc. then they are not going to get consistent good quality officials to work high school level and below games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MUSTANGMANIA Posted October 19, 2009 Share Posted October 19, 2009 I dont think that its fair to give the "Lesser experienced" refs the lower classification games. We play football for the same reasons the 4-5A teams do. We play by the same rules and expect them to be enforced the same. Know the difference between a spot foul, or to mark it off from the end of the play. I understand the concept, but, small school teams can have a season ruined on bad calls just like any other. At least give each crew one Senior Member. Someone with a minimum amount of experience to help out/over rule on the bad calls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drilsgt98 Posted October 19, 2009 Share Posted October 19, 2009 I dont think that its fair to give the "Lesser experienced" refs the lower classification games. We play football for the same reasons the 4-5A teams do. We play by the same rules and expect them to be enforced the same. Know the difference between a spot foul, or to mark it off from the end of the play. I understand the concept, but, small school teams can have a season ruined on bad calls just like any other. At least give each crew one Senior Member. Someone with a minimum amount of experience to help out/over rule on the bad calls. That is fair. The Chapter I am affiliated with does not have any crews that are comprised of all "lesser experienced" officials. That being said, you may have a crew of 5 who ony have 10 or so years combined experience. Another thing to remember is not to equate years of experience with the ability to do the job correctly. I know first year officials I would rather be on the field with over some with 10 plus years. I feel our assignors do a decent job of mixing up the games on weeks when a particular crew may not have been chosen. The crew I am on for example has games at the 2,3, 4 and 5A level this season. I would much rather be at a competitive 1 or 2A game than a 5A blowout. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WickedLester Posted October 19, 2009 Share Posted October 19, 2009 So how much experience, on the average, does a senior crew member have. And is he usually the man in charge? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRedBaron Posted October 19, 2009 Share Posted October 19, 2009 I started off officiating Pop Warner a while back in Dallas. The next thing I know, I'm working with refs who are officiating HS ball on Friday nights, and officiated Pop Warner. I was surprised to see some of them there, but several said they enjoyed spending the a Saturday being reminded of what it was like for the little kids learning to play. Eventually, I began working some Middle School games, then ended up officiating one J.V. game. Then I officiated several Dallas Carter games after that. How I ended up at 7 of those games is beyond me, but the Carter coaches seemed to like me. I didn't favor them, but I also didn't call every little infraction just to watch my flag fly. I also found that I could keep up with the action, and be there to see what happened. Most of the other refs I worked with tried to make spots and look for infractions while seeing the action from afar. I was as objective as I could be in the officiating because I did not attend any of the schools that I officiated for. I officiated for some time in the Dallas area with more than one chapter. Even 10 years ago, some of the refs then looked like they should simply bow out. I am STILL seeing the refs I saw when I move out here to the Tyler Chapter. I eventually hung it up when my work schedule got in the way about 7 years ago. I can say, without a doubt, that I see officials who have been passed up by High School football long ago. However, what it takes to be a ref is a love of the game, a love for the kids, and the patience of a saint. If you can be objective, and let the drama roll of your back you will do fine. As much as I love the Eagles, I think I could officiate a game with my own son playing and be objective. It is just something you either can, or cannot do. It is a persona you take on when you put on the stripes. You see numbers, formations, hash marks, and the line. You count the players on the field, and pay attention to the numbers of the players involved in the infractions. Just remember that you are only human, and you are going to mess up. There is nothing wrong with changing your mind on a call if it was questionable to begin with. Just don't do it often. Oh and if you get to ref don't be one of those refs who finds excuses to throw flags so he can get a breather from the action. Stay in shape. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drilsgt98 Posted October 19, 2009 Share Posted October 19, 2009 So how much experience, on the average, does a senior crew member have. And is he usually the man in charge? It varies and the Referee isn't always the most senior man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MUSTANGMANIA Posted October 19, 2009 Share Posted October 19, 2009 It varies and the Referee isn't always the most senior man. So do the new guys get a shot in a large classification game, or do the have to earn it by working their way up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieHardCubFan Posted October 19, 2009 Share Posted October 19, 2009 So do the new guys get a shot in a large classification game, or do the have to earn it by working their way up? Mustang, it all depends. On the average, a "new guy" will work their 1st year or so working alot of games (from 7th 8th, 9th and JV games). The more games, the better. I was lucky to get on a crew the 3rd week into my 1st season. However, LUCK had to do alot with it and if you ever talk to my white hat (and the other crew members) that will tell you how I essentially froze up on the 1st play from scrimmage....but, I survived... Our crew typically worked (due to family & work commitments, I had to give up officiating this past year) everything from 1A to 3A (which we would rather work any day) but have also worked some big 4A games and even worked a round 3 (regional semi-final) game in the playoffs. I agree with Drilsgt in that there are some great 1st or 2nd year officials and do a great job (especially with mechanics of officiating) as compared to some 10 to 20 year veteran officials. Hopefully, you'll be lucky to be affiliated with a chapter who has an established mentoring program (as the Tyler chapter has done) and will be paired up with not only a veteran official, but one who takes the job seriously. My suggestion is to get out there, do the best you can, and remember you are not out there for the money - you are doing it for the kids! Look at it that way & you'll have a total blast! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
astros123 Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 So do the new guys get a shot in a large classification game, or do the have to earn it by working their way up? All the officials in East Texas with the exception of 1-A pick there officials in Feb. and next year 1-A will get to do it. I have been officiating over 25 years and have more fun and better games at the 1-A, 2-A and 3-A then the 4 and 5-A Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theguyinstripes Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 Did anyone else think that Florida was given their last touchdown, with a very poor pass interference call and a horrible spot giving them a first down with 41 seconds left in the game? Arkansas in my opinion played well and earned a lot of respect in the Swamp. I agree with you because the ball was under thrown that goes back to letting the players play. The QB under threw the ball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theguyinstripes Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 There have been sevral things on this post that are incorrect. 1) Allstar crews are not assembled for the playoffs. Its the crews that have worked together all year. 2) The best crews dont always go to the 5a and 4a games. I know sevral good crews who have done 1A already this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtle09 Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 REF. FROM THE STANDS OR THE COUCH IS LIKE COACHING FROM THEM IT'S EASY FROM THESE PLACES BECAUSE YOUR JOB IS NOT ON THE LINE. ARE THEY GOING TO MAKE MISTAKES YES BUT THEY DONT MAKE THEM ON PURPOSE OR IN FAVOR OF A CERTAIN TEAM WE HAVE SOME GOOD OFF. CALLING GAMES & WHEN OUR TEAM DON'T WIN IT'S EASY TO PUT THE EXCUSE FOR THE LOSS ON THEM I WOULD'NT WANT THE REF. JOB KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MUSTANGMANIA Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 Well. This post has been informative and helpful to me. I'll have to start keeping my "rookie" and "Pop warner" comments to myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theguyinstripes Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 Well. This post has been informative and helpful to me. I'll have to start keeping my "rookie" and "Pop warner" comments to myself. Lol!! Even I have criticized officials before actually doing it now I catch myself taking up for them when I am watching games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
svc1998 Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 The Tyler Football Chapter worked 2 state championship games (5A and 3A) last year and had over 30 playoff games--Third only to Houston and Dallas. The officiating in this part of the state is pretty good. In basketball, the Tyler Chapter worked over 70 playoff games (an all time high), a 3A Boys regional tournament, and placed a guy in Austin for the state tourney. _____________________________________________________ There are two things that will have a positive impact on officiating in the future. 1) Higher pay at all levels. Money drives the market and if the money is bad, there is no motivation for someone to get off their duff and do the job. Money gets people into the officiating business...it isn't what keeps them in the business. Football refs took a 30% pay cut at the sub-varsity level last year and it didn't improve this year despite the promises by the UIL to fix their wrong. 2) 7-man crews instead of 5. The spread offense stretches us way too thin. Do the math...22 players divided by 5 refs...each ref has to watch 4 players at one time. Factor in that the white hat has to stay with the qb on all passing plays, now it's 5 or 6 players per ref. Additionally, adding 2 more refs on a crew allows younger refs to get into varsity games quicker working the back positions and learning how to work with and communicate with coaches sooner in their learning curve, and learning how to manage a well officiated game. Tyler chapter called the CH vs SH game and the headlines man was the absolute worst I've seen. And I've seen many. Was one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quackhead Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 i agree with the first post. this is my last year playing high school football and out of the four, this has by far been the worst officiated of all. i wont make any comments about weight or age but some of the officials tend to show a little bit of favortism. Im not whining by any means because some of this has been for us...but i had rather just win/lose based on my teams ability not on how good of freinds the coach and official are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieHardCubFan Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 i agree with the first post. this is my last year playing high school football and out of the four, this has by far been the worst officiated of all. i wont make any comments about weight or age but some of the officials tend to show a little bit of favortism. Im not whining by any means because some of this has been for us...but i had rather just win/lose based on my teams ability not on how good of freinds the coach and official are. If this your last year playing football, maybe you should worry about playing football and not worry about how officials call or not call the game. It is not you place to question the officials - and do so on the field will get you (and thus your team) a quick 15 yard penalty! And if the truth be known - 99.9% of the time a team loses has absolutely - ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with the officiating. If your team isn't good enough to beat the other team - an official's call is not going to drastically effect the outcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theguyinstripes Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 Its kind of funny I have had coaches say that the refs the week before cost them the game. Then we start their game and in the first half they have already had 7 penalty's for the most obvious of things. Offsides for instance. Watch the football dont worry about people around you. I never have understood how a receiver is offsides. We were always taught to go on the #### movment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Longhorn Fan Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 There have been sevral things on this post that are incorrect. 1) Allstar crews are not assembled for the playoffs. Its the crews that have worked together all year. 2) The best crews dont always go to the 5a and 4a games. I know sevral good crews who have done 1A already this year. The best crews DON'T always go to the 5A and 4A games. 3 crews in the Tyler Chapter and 2 crews in the East Texas Chapter have worked 1A and 2A games as well as their normal games in Waco, Texarkana, Tyler and Lufkin. The other comment about the All-Star crews is true. That does not happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacketgrad06 Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 I am a first year official and I am young. I have been told by coachs for the last couple of weeks that more youth is needed in this profession. I am doing this because I love the game and I had seen many bad calls over the last few years. The money isnt really great in this job but if you love it is worth it. I started oyt doing sub varsity games then I went into doing peewee on the weekends, and ran chains on some fiday nights, now I have had friday nights twice if you include this week. I see alot of guys that are too old or out of shape but if they leave half of the games in the area wouldnt have refs or wouldnt have 5 man crews. One of the best refs that I know is very old and he is requested by 2 to 3 coaches every year. I really mean old. I used to be the first to yell at the refs but I will tell you sitting elevated above the game watching it is eaiser than running with a play and seeing things on the field. So if you want the problems fixed try getting some more people into the profession. We would love to have them. Also there is no longer an SFA Chapter it is tied in with longview in the east texas chapter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieHardCubFan Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 Also there is no longer an SFA Chapter it is tied in with longview in the east texas chapter. Jacket - I believe the reference to the SFA chapter is for basketball, not football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacketgrad06 Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 Well it used to be football too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OBTS Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 Tyler chapter called the CH vs SH game and the headlines man was the absolute worst I've seen. And I've seen many. Was one. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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