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TheShadowKnows

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Regarding the criticism of my earlier post. I think about all the world, when it comes to their salvation. I was blessed to be born in the United States where Christianity still plays a major part in most peoples lives. I also believe that we are all spiritual children of Our Father in Heaven One can only be a child of God if one has accepted the free gift of salvation aka being born agian. Otherwise one is at odds with God becuase of ones sins ,and God having a sinless nature can not and will not allow sin in His presence. We would agree then that all man have sinned. Plus no matter how good one is or spirtual minded one is there is still a huge void between man and God, and each person must make the choice to either accept Jesus work on the cross or reject it. So the short of this only blood bought believers are children of God eerrbody else is just playing religion and on their way to an eternity of seperation from God. God created every living thing, and every spiritual thing that exists. I know that I existed as a spirit,before I came to this earth and was clothed by the flesh, and gained a soul Dave I tell you this in love but you are wrong with this belief ! and i wanna say that is a gnostic hearasy that the New Testamnet Church was fighting agianst so don't buy it!!! Remember the devil dont play fair. 2 Corinthians 2:11 Lest Satan should get an advatage of us: for we are not ignorant of his devises. God knew me before I came to this world, and I do know that. That is right in the sence that while we were yet sinners Christ died for us Rom 5:8,

According as He hath chosen us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love Eph 1:4 and also look up Romans 8:29-30

 

I think all of the people of the world are our brothers and sisters in a spiritual sense, Dave stay away fro the emrgent church that we were all created by God. I think God is going to be merciful unto the children and people of other Nations , that were born in them.only if they have accepted Jesus as The Christ and like Hebrews 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgement I think all people will have the opportunity to accept Jesus Christ as their Lord and Saviour, whether they heard about Him or not One can only accept Christ if they have heard about Him that is why we as Christians should take the great commision seriosly, becuase faith comes from hearing and hearing from the word of God. I'm not sure how that all works, but God is a loving God, and He is a forgiving God That He is and if anyone knows that it is I, but we can not forget that God is just and rightouse and His mercy will only come to those who have accepted His free gift of salvation.. To think that He would place a child in a place on earth, without giving them an opportunity to accept His Gospel at one time in their life is sentencing them to damnation . I've never seen God as being like that . God is long suffering and slow to anger so that none may perish but that all should come to repentence 1 Pt 2:9 and as Romans 1:20 tells us For the invisible things of Him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse.

 

 

I pray this makes good sence and that I not come off as a mr.knowitall but as one cares.

To God Be The Glory

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Baptism alone does not save one....We must believe in the Gospel message (faith), we must repent of our past sins (change our lives), we must openly confess our belief that Jesus is the Son of the Living God (confession), we must be baptized for the remission of our sins (obedience). At that point, the point of baptism, our sins are washed away and we become Christians, and are added to the Universal Church of Christ, the Kingdom of God....we then must live faithful lives, confessing our sins to God and asking for forgiveness when we fall....

 

The thief on the cross is irrelevant here as he died BEFORE the resurrection and BEFORE the Gospel message was required.....the thief on the cross died under the Law of Moses, NOT the Gospel....I do not believe in any kind of conversion without baptism....which is very much in line with the Word of God.....

 

A couple of things to note with the last paragraph above. One, the statement "the thief on the cross died under the Law of Moses" is correct. But did the "law of Moses" save the thief on the cross (or anyone for that matter)? Or did the law point to One who could save him? How were the people mentioned in the old testament saved? Please read Hebrews chapter 11. By "faith in God" or by keeping the law? Please read Romans 4 and Galations 3:6. Abraham "believed" God "And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness." (Romans 4:22). Therefore, the keeping of the law didn't save anyone, faith in God is what saves a person. On a side note, there is no record of any of the apostles being baptized after Jesus' resurrection. Shouldn't they have been baptized and anyone who was "saved" before Jesus' death and resurrection since they were under the law but lived after Jesus' death? OR Is baptism only a requirment for those who were born after Jesus' death and resurrection?

 

Two, regarding the statement "I do not believe in any kind of conversion without baptism", I'm thankful that you are not the final say in determining if a person is saved or not. 1 Timothy 1:12 says "For the which cause I also suffer these things: nevertheless I am not ashamed: for I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day." I know whom I have believed and I know that He has saved me!!! Praise God for that fact!!!!

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Hebrews 11: 8:

8By faith Abraham obeyed when he was called to go out to a place that he was to receive as an inheritance. And he went out, not knowing where he was going.

 

Abraham's faith led him to OBEY God and DO what God told him to do......Abraham believed what God said and DID what God told him to do.....had Abraham chosen not to DO what God told him to do, we wouldn't even know who he was.....

 

We are saved when our faith leads us to DO what God has told us to do in order to gain the salvation He is offering....those commands you can see in the scriptures in my signature.....The only way that faith saves is in conjunction with obedience...

 

Acts 2: 41:

41So those who received his word were baptized, and there were added that day about three thousand souls.

 

Simple logic tells us that since baptism was the way to gain God's grace, then the apostles were baptized....They were obviously among the 3000.....

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Hebrews 11: 8:

8By faith Abraham obeyed when he was called to go out to a place that he was to receive as an inheritance. And he went out, not knowing where he was going.

 

Abraham's faith led him to OBEY God and DO what God told him to do......Abraham believed what God said and DID what God told him to do.....had Abraham chosen not to DO what God told him to do, we wouldn't even know who he was.....

 

We are saved when our faith leads us to DO what God has told us to do in order to gain the salvation He is offering....those commands you can see in the scriptures in my signature.....The only way that faith saves is in conjunction with obedience...

 

Acts 2: 41:

41So those who received his word were baptized, and there were added that day about three thousand souls.

 

Simple logic tells us that since baptism was the way to gain God's grace, then the apostles were baptized....They were obviously among the 3000.....

 

 

and we are warned several times in the Scriptures not to add anything to or take anything away from the Word......
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Please show me where you think I've added to or subtracted from the Word???

 

How to obtain scriptural authority:

 

1. Direct command from God or Jesus or one of the apostles.

2. Follow examples set by the apostles and 1st century Christians.

3. Logical inferences made from 1 or 2......

 

Following #3 does not an addition make.....

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I do have a question about baptism and salvation. If baptism is a must for salvation and a person gets saved and that person falls from grace and becomes lost....does he have to be baptized again to become saved again or does he have to just repent again? Or is he not as lost as he was the first time?........thanks

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I do have a question about baptism and salvation. If baptism is a must for salvation and a person gets saved and that person falls from grace and becomes lost....does he have to be baptized again to become saved again or does he have to just repent again? Or is he not as lost as he was the first time?........thanks

 

John shows us how a Christian who falls from grace can be forgiven:

 

I John 1: 9:

9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

 

 

Here is a specific case of that:

 

Acts 8: 9 - 13:

9But there was a man named Simon, who had previously practiced magic in the city and amazed the people of Samaria, saying that he himself was somebody great. 10They all paid attention to him, from the least to the greatest, saying, "This man is the power of God that is called Great." 11And they paid attention to him because for a long time he had amazed them with his magic. 12But when they believed Philip as he preached good news about the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women. 13Even Simon himself believed, and after being baptized he continued with Philip. And seeing signs and great miracles performed, he was amazed.

 

Simon had become a Christian. Then Simon sinned. He had fallen from Grace. Here is what he was told to do:

 

Acts 8: 18 - 24:

18Now when Simon saw that the Spirit was given through the laying on of the apostles’ hands, he offered them money, 19saying, "Give me this power also, so that anyone on whom I lay my hands may receive the Holy Spirit." 20But Peter said to him, "May your silver perish with you, because you thought you could obtain the gift of God with money! 21You have neither part nor lot in this matter, for your heart is not right before God. 22Repent, therefore, of this wickedness of yours, and pray to the Lord that, if possible, the intent of your heart may be forgiven you. 23For I see that you are in the gall of bitterness and in the bond of iniquity." 24And Simon answered, "Pray for me to the Lord, that nothing of what you have said may come upon me."

 

Keeping in context agreement with the rest of the Word, we see John's teaching in action, as a Christian only needs to confess their sins to God and pray for forgiveness......

 

 

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Dear Mr. Colmesneil,

I have a few questions for you, which are listed below. I would appreciate your answers.

 

 

1. A person is in church, accepts Christ, and is scheduled to be baptized in two weeks. In those two weeks, said person dies in a horrific car accident. Where does said person go?

 

2. Assuming that you are going to say that person should have been baptized immediately after accepting Christ, I offer this. Said person accepts Christ in church and before said person can be baptized, a bomb goes off in the church, killing everyone. Where does said person go?

 

3. If baptism is used for the sole purpose of washing away sin, then why did Jesus (obviously sinless) want to be baptized?

 

4. If one can indeed "fall from Grace," by what measure does one complete the "fall?" Is it only after murdering someone? Or cussing eight times? Or cheating on homework twice? I believe some measurement needs to be in order to gauge how much sin equals a "fall." Otherwise we all should be getting "saved" and baptized daily.

 

5. Do you believe only members of the Church of Christ are bound for heaven?

 

6. Where in this passage does it say Simon was "previously a Christian?"

 

9But there was a man named Simon, who had previously practiced magic in the city and amazed the people of Samaria, saying that he himself was somebody great. 10They all paid attention to him, from the least to the greatest, saying, "This man is the power of God that is called Great." 11And they paid attention to him because for a long time he had amazed them with his magic. 12But when they believed Philip as he preached good news about the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women. 13Even Simon himself believed, and after being baptized he continued with Philip. And seeing signs and great miracles performed, he was amazed.

 

 

Thanks,

Chase

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Hebrews 11: 8:

8By faith Abraham obeyed when he was called to go out to a place that he was to receive as an inheritance. And he went out, not knowing where he was going.

 

Abraham's faith led him to OBEY God and DO what God told him to do......Abraham believed what God said and DID what God told him to do.....had Abraham chosen not to DO what God told him to do, we wouldn't even know who he was.....

 

We are saved when our faith leads us to DO what God has told us to do in order to gain the salvation He is offering....those commands you can see in the scriptures in my signature.....The only way that faith saves is in conjunction with obedience...

 

Acts 2: 41:

41So those who received his word were baptized, and there were added that day about three thousand souls.

 

Simple logic tells us that since baptism was the way to gain God's grace, then the apostles were baptized....They were obviously among the 3000.....

 

 

Abraham was saved first (believed in God, faith in God) THEN he obeyed God. A person must be saved BEFORE they can obey God. Romans 8:7 states “Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.” We can’t obey God UNTIL we are saved (received the Holy Spirit in us) because we are at enmity against God. We can’t have fellowship with God or have that desire to obey God until we have trusted Jesus Christ as our personal savior.

 

 

Since baptism is considered a work, the Bible states that there are no works that we are required to do gain salvation. Ephesians 2:8-9 says it all “For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.”

 

 

If baptism was required for salvation, one would think that the scripture writers would place a much greater emphasis on it and we would see the apostles being baptized after the Jesus’ resurrection. Therefore, simple logic tells us that baptism is not required for salvation, but baptism is a way we show others that we are saved and desire to follow Jesus.

 

 

Also quick breakdown of Acts 2:41 - “Then they that gladly received his word” – these folks that gladly received his word – chose to trust in Jesus Christ and be saved – they are saved right then; “were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them” – these that believed in God were then later baptized and added to the church.

 

 

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1. A person is in church, accepts Christ, and is scheduled to be baptized in two weeks. In those two weeks, said person dies in a horrific car accident. Where does said person go?

 

2. Assuming that you are going to say that person should have been baptized immediately after accepting Christ, I offer this. Said person accepts Christ in church and before said person can be baptized, a bomb goes off in the church, killing everyone. Where does said person go?

 

3. If baptism is used for the sole purpose of washing away sin, then why did Jesus (obviously sinless) want to be baptized?

 

4. If one can indeed "fall from Grace," by what measure does one complete the "fall?" Is it only after murdering someone? Or cussing eight times? Or cheating on homework twice? I believe some measurement needs to be in order to gauge how much sin equals a "fall." Otherwise we all should be getting "saved" and baptized daily.

 

5. Do you believe only members of the Church of Christ are bound for heaven?

 

6. Where in this passage does it say Simon was "previously a Christian?"

 

1. Baptism in the NT ALWAYS was immediate...they were baptized when their faith led them to that point.....

 

2. God's Word judges him, I don't.....

 

3. As an example to us.....

 

4. Any sin is a trangression against God....God doesn't put measurements on sin....a little reading of the Bible shows that very clearly...sin is sin, no matter how small or how large.....Once we have been baptized for the proper reason the first time, all we need do then is confess in prayer to God our sins and ask for His forgiveness....read the scripture in a post above.....

 

5. God gave us very clear examples of how we are to worship him (part of living faithful lives), and congregations of the church of Christ are the ones who follow that example.....Jesus died for ONE church, He founded ONE church, and people had better be in that ONE church to have any hope of salvation....that is from the Word of God, not from the mind of Jim Crews....

 

6. Verse 13 tells us that Simon was a Christian....he believed AND was baptized......

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Abraham was saved first (believed in God, faith in God) THEN he obeyed God. A person must be saved BEFORE they can obey God. Romans 8:7 states “Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.” We can’t obey God UNTIL we are saved (received the Holy Spirit in us) because we are at enmity against God. We can’t have fellowship with God or have that desire to obey God until we have trusted Jesus Christ as our personal savior.

 

 

Since baptism is considered a work, the Bible states that there are no works that we are required to do gain salvation. Ephesians 2:8-9 says it all “For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.”

 

 

If baptism was required for salvation, one would think that the scripture writers would place a much greater emphasis on it and we would see the apostles being baptized after the Jesus’ resurrection. Therefore, simple logic tells us that baptism is not required for salvation, but baptism is a way we show others that we are saved and desire to follow Jesus.

 

 

Also quick breakdown of Acts 2:41 - “Then they that gladly received his word” – these folks that gladly received his word – chose to trust in Jesus Christ and be saved – they are saved right then; “were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them” – these that believed in God were then later baptized and added to the church.

 

Mark 16: 16...baptism is required for salvation.....

I Peter 3: 21....baptism is what saves us.....

 

Acts 2: 38....those in verse 41 DID what Peter told them to do (repent and be baptized) and were saved WHEN they were baptized.....read the entire text, not just one verse taken out of context...

 

Baptism IS emphasized through the ENTIRE Bible.....we see numerous examples of water being the point of salvation throughout the OT and in the examples given to us in Acts....all it takes is a little reading to see the Truth.....

 

Had Abraham chosen NOT TO OBEY God, we wouldn't even know who he was...Abraham was saved when he obeyed God's word and not one second before...again, there are MANY examples in the ENTIRE Bible that show us obedience to God is how people are saved from various trials and tribulations and troubles.....that principle has not changed.....

 

You also need to read the entire book of Romans before trying to use a verse or two out of context.....Romans 6 tells us how we "get into Christ" (baptism).....Romans 8 begins with the fact that there is no condemnation for those who are "in Jesus Christ"......The verse you chose to take out of context deals with that stubborn majority who refuses to hear, believe, repent, confess, OBEY, and live faithful lives......

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So if a person falls from grace and is lost, he is still a christian?

 

A Christian fallen from Grace is still in contact with the Blood of Christ, gained through baptism, and as such, when that person repents, confesses his sins in prayer to God and asks forgiveness, the Blood cleanses him once again...

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1. Baptism in the NT ALWAYS was immediate...they were baptized when their faith led them to that point.....

 

2. God's Word judges him, I don't.....

 

3. As an example to us.....

 

4. Any sin is a trangression against God....God doesn't put measurements on sin....a little reading of the Bible shows that very clearly...sin is sin, no matter how small or how large.....Once we have been baptized for the proper reason the first time, all we need do then is confess in prayer to God our sins and ask for His forgiveness....read the scripture in a post above.....

 

5. God gave us very clear examples of how we are to worship him (part of living faithful lives), and congregations of the church of Christ are the ones who follow that example.....Jesus died for ONE church, He founded ONE church, and people had better be in that ONE church to have any hope of salvation....that is from the Word of God, not from the mind of Jim Crews....

 

6. Verse 13 tells us that Simon was a Christian....he believed AND was baptized......

 

1. Man, I'm good. Said exactly what I thought you would.

2. Didn't answer my question. Where do you think he goes?

3. OK.

4. Didn't answer my question. At one point does a person "fall from grace?"

5. So, are you saying that the Church of Christ congregations are the only ones bound for salvation? Do other churches (i.e. Baptist, Methodist, non-denominational churches) not follow the same example?

6. You, sir, completely manipulated that passage of Scripture. He became a believer AFTER Phillip preached. He was not a Christian before. The text says EVEN Simon believed, placing emphasis that Phillip's teachings were so powerful that he became a believer and went with Phillip. There was no "fall from grace" for Simon. He had found salvation for the first time.

 

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WOW!!

 

Salvation occurs when one calls on the name of the Lord asks forgivness and asks him into his heart. That is it plain and simple. There are no works, there are no this and that. Call on the name of the Lord. I think the thief on the cross is a perfect example of that.

 

As for being immersed to be saved it simply is not so. The blood of Christ covered all sins, it did everything. EVERYTHING. Nothing more is required except to accept his blood offering for our lives/salvation. If immersion were required then the blood would not be enough. If we could be saved then lost, the blood would not be enough.

 

Colms I have the utmost of respect for your knowledge and beliefs. Truly. However, I believe a bit different. I too believe in my salvation just as strongly as you. I truly hope one of us isn't wrong.

 

Christianity is quite simple. Religion, which is of man, is quite confusing. Religion is like government today.

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It is amazing to look down through the history of man and see how heavily it is engrained upon the mind of man that he (man) has got to have some part in his own salvation beyond the cognitive. Adam tried it with partaking of the fruit and then trying to cover his sin with fig leaves. Didn't work for him. Also, didn't work for Cain, he thought he would come up with a better sacrifice than the one he was shown. One, by the way, that came from the sweat of his brow (works). Didn't work either! Etc., etc. and on and on. Man has tried to work himself into the portals of Heaven. God gave man the law to show them that they were not smart enough, good enough, or powerful enough to keep it and thus showing them that they were all sinners, sorry, and condemned without a chance to be saved without trusting in the Messiah or the Christ that would come. Someone had to do it for them and Jesus did. Now all that is left is for one to place his or her faith or trust that what Christ did was sufficient to clear the charges against us. I BELIEVE it was and is. As to the synecdoche pie, called for by some, it doesn't cut it either. All have a purpose and all are Biblical, but not in salvation.

 

Repentance- you must repent or you'll perish, not doubt. (This is a turning, no doubt, but a turning from something to something else. Unless, you turn from whatever you think is going to save you and turn to Christ who is the only one who can, you'll perish.)

 

Faith-you got to believe or trust that Christ is who the Bible testifies He is and that He can do what it says He can do for you. It is at this point that regeneration takes place.

 

Confession- one must confess Christ in order to become a member of His New Testament Church and that is what one does when he/she comes forward to confess their faith in Christ. The Church is the body of Christ and that is the only way you are going to get in the body of Christ. (Being saved first and then being baptized showing your association with Christ. That is what they did in Acts 2:38. They wanted to know (in keeping with the context) what they had to do to separate themselves from the masses of Israel that had crucified the prophesied Messiah. Peter told them how. "Repent and be baptized for (Grk. "eis" - with reference to) the remission of sins and ye shall receive ....." By the way, that was the Holy Ghost Baptism of the church, not the individual. The only way your gonna get to be a part of the Holy Ghost Baptism is to be a member of the church that was baptized by the Holy Ghost.

 

Baptism- (refer above) That was the prerequisit to becoming a member of the church or to getting into Christ's body and to be obedient to Christ's command to be baptized. They surely had to confess Him before being baptized. Again, membership not salvation. No where does it say "Baptism damns or condemns" by the way.

 

Obedience- Very important of course, just not to spiritual preservation or condemnation. Physical, yes, mortality, yes. There is a sin unto physical death, of course. Are there consequences for sin? YOU BETTER BELIEVE IT! If one is not obedient to the commands of Christ, there are certainly consequences that affect the mortal body and spiritual fellowship with our Lord and His Holy Spirit. But the consequences are not a loss of salvation or the promised immortality in the eternal ages. There are consequences in this life and loss of fellowship in this life and loss of rewards in the after life. But that person who has placed his life in Christ's hands through faith will be saved "yet so as by fire."

 

This person has been ...... "perfected forever...." by the "one offering" of Christ and no "height nor depth ....nor any other creature (man himself) can separate us from Christ.

 

Simply amazing grace and mercy, when you get man out of it!

 

 

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Are we to take up serpents and drink poison afterwards? Mark 16:18 Same paragraph, must be the same thought as you told someone in this thread earlier.

 

That passage was addressed to the apostles from Jesus, telling them the message they were to present, the only result that would lead to salvation, and what they were about to be able to do when they received the Holy Spirit as their guide and helper......We deliver the same message, and the only result that will lead to salvation is the same one spoken by Jesus....The ability for men to do miracles ended when the last one to receive it from an apostle died.....

 

I Corinthians 13 tells us about the cessation of miracles by men......

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1. Man, I'm good. Said exactly what I thought you would.

2. Didn't answer my question. Where do you think he goes?

3. OK.

4. Didn't answer my question. At one point does a person "fall from grace?"

5. So, are you saying that the Church of Christ congregations are the only ones bound for salvation? Do other churches (i.e. Baptist, Methodist, non-denominational churches) not follow the same example?

6. You, sir, completely manipulated that passage of Scripture. He became a believer AFTER Phillip preached. He was not a Christian before. The text says EVEN Simon believed, placing emphasis that Phillip's teachings were so powerful that he became a believer and went with Phillip. There was no "fall from grace" for Simon. He had found salvation for the first time.

 

2. He will be judged according to whether he obeyed the Word of God in the manner that God commanded.....I am not hte judge, and where I think he will go is irrelevant.....

 

4. Christians fall from Grace when we sin....I answered it very plainly......

 

5. There are members of church of Christ congregations that aren't bound for salvation.....only those who follow God's Will, those who believe, repent, confess, obey, and live faithful lives are bound for salvation....that will be very few.

Matthew 7: 13 - 14

Denominations and even some local congregations of the church of Christ do not follow God's commandments and do not sit in obedience of His Will......

 

6. I can read....Here it is again in context. Seems very clear to me.....Simon was a Christian....He believed and was baptized...:

Acts 8: 9 - 13

9But there was a man named Simon, who had previously practiced magic in the city and amazed the people of Samaria, saying that he himself was somebody great. 10They all paid attention to him, from the least to the greatest, saying, "This man is the power of God that is called Great." 11And they paid attention to him because for a long time he had amazed them with his magic. 12But when they believed Philip as he preached good news about the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women. 13Even Simon himself believed, and after being baptized he continued with Philip. And seeing signs and great miracles performed, he was amazed.

 

Now read the rest of the chapter and see clearly that Simon, who was ALREADY a Christian, had fallen from Grace because of his sin.

Acts 8: 14 -24

 

14Now when the apostles at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent to them Peter and John, 15who came down and prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit, 16for he had not yet fallen on any of them, but they had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 17Then they laid their hands on them and they received the Holy Spirit. 18Now when Simon saw that the Spirit was given through the laying on of the apostles’ hands, he offered them money, 19saying, "Give me this power also, so that anyone on whom I lay my hands may receive the Holy Spirit." 20But Peter said to him, "May your silver perish with you, because you thought you could obtain the gift of God with money! 21You have neither part nor lot in this matter, for your heart is not right before God. 22Repent, therefore, of this wickedness of yours, and pray to the Lord that, if possible, the intent of your heart may be forgiven you. 23For I see that you are in the gall of bitterness and in the bond of iniquity." 24And Simon answered, "Pray for me to the Lord, that nothing of what you have said may come upon me."

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WOW!!

 

Salvation occurs when one calls on the name of the Lord asks forgivness and asks him into his heart. That is it plain and simple. There are no works, there are no this and that. Call on the name of the Lord. I think the thief on the cross is a perfect example of that.

 

As for being immersed to be saved it simply is not so. The blood of Christ covered all sins, it did everything. EVERYTHING. Nothing more is required except to accept his blood offering for our lives/salvation. If immersion were required then the blood would not be enough. If we could be saved then lost, the blood would not be enough.

 

Colms I have the utmost of respect for your knowledge and beliefs. Truly. However, I believe a bit different. I too believe in my salvation just as strongly as you. I truly hope one of us isn't wrong.

 

Christianity is quite simple. Religion, which is of man, is quite confusing. Religion is like government today.

 

Please go back and read the entire thread....all of this has been discussed in detail earlier.....

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Congrats, Colmes! Your arrogance, pomposity and bloviation have ruined a once great message board.

 

Matthew 5: 10 - 11:

10 "Blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness’ sake, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

 

11 "Blessed are you when others revile you and persecute you and utter all kinds of evil against you falsely on my account. 12 Rejoice and be glad, for your reward is great in heaven, for so they persecuted the prophets who were before you.

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