chase.colston Posted February 18, 2010 Share Posted February 18, 2010 4. Christians fall from Grace when we sin....I answered it very plainly...... So it looks like we all need to be saved every day, therefore need to be baptized every day. Got it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RETIREDFAN1 Posted February 18, 2010 Share Posted February 18, 2010 So it looks like we all need to be saved every day, therefore need to be baptized every day. Got it. You are half right, we DO need to be saved every day, as we sin every day...Thankfully, God has given us the way to achieve this as well.......as stated earlier in this thread, once someone has accepted God's Grace through their obedience to God's commands, they no longer need to be baptized for forgiveness of their sins....the scriptures are posted in this thread, but here is where you can find them.... Acts 8: 9 - 23 I John 1: 5 - 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RETIREDFAN1 Posted February 18, 2010 Share Posted February 18, 2010 And because of your beliefs, Colmes, would you also agree you think it's wrong for instruments and dancing in church or in general? There is no scriptural authority to have instrumental music or dancing in the worship service...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chase.colston Posted February 18, 2010 Share Posted February 18, 2010 There is no scriptural authority to have instrumental music or dancing in the worship service...... But it was certainly fine for David to dance directly in the presence of God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RETIREDFAN1 Posted February 18, 2010 Share Posted February 18, 2010 But it was certainly fine for David to dance directly in the presence of God. Was it??? Or was David sinning when he danced and used instrumental music??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheShadowKnows Posted February 18, 2010 Author Share Posted February 18, 2010 Was it??? Or was David sinning when he danced and used instrumental music??? Davids wife thought so and her womb became barren. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RETIREDFAN1 Posted February 18, 2010 Share Posted February 18, 2010 Davids wife thought so and her womb became barren. Michal, David's wife, showed disrespect toward her husband and attempted to dishonor him......that is why she was barren.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonSwanson Posted February 18, 2010 Share Posted February 18, 2010 Colmes, its good to have you back.....I figured since we tagged teamed you so bad you were wounded...LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RETIREDFAN1 Posted February 18, 2010 Share Posted February 18, 2010 Colmes, its good to have you back.....I figured since we tagged teamed you so bad you were wounded...LOL Thanks....I've just been away from the computer for a few days...we are on winter break this week.....I can take it.... :thumbsup: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chase.colston Posted February 19, 2010 Share Posted February 19, 2010 Was it??? Or was David sinning when he danced and used instrumental music??? You can honestly sit there and tell me you believe God would be angry at someone who is HAPPY to be in His presence, and believe that to be sin? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RETIREDFAN1 Posted February 19, 2010 Share Posted February 19, 2010 You can honestly sit there and tell me you believe God would be angry at someone who is HAPPY to be in His presence, and believe that to be sin? Yes..... II Samuel 6: 5 - 11 5And David and all the house of Israel were making merry before the LORD, with songs and lyres and harps and tambourines and castanets and cymbals. 6And when they came to the threshing floor of Nacon, Uzzah put out his hand to the ark of God and took hold of it, for the oxen stumbled. 7And the anger of the LORD was kindled against Uzzah, and God struck him down there because of his error, and he died there beside the ark of God. 8And David was angry because the LORD had burst forth against Uzzah. And that place is called Perez-uzzah, to this day. 9And David was afraid of the LORD that day, and he said, "How can the ark of the LORD come to me?" 10So David was not willing to take the ark of the LORD into the city of David. But David took it aside to the house of Obed-edom the Gittite. 11And the ark of the LORD remained in the house of Obed-edom the Gittite three months, and the LORD blessed Obed-edom and all his household. Uzzah was doing a good thing, from the human perspective, but was struck dead by God because HE VIOLATED GOD'S COMMANDMENT...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chase.colston Posted February 19, 2010 Share Posted February 19, 2010 Please show me where Jesus says to not dance or play instruments. I'll wait here. (By the way, what Uzzah did had nothing to do with being happy in the presence of God, which is what I was pointing out) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RETIREDFAN1 Posted February 19, 2010 Share Posted February 19, 2010 God does not have to give us a list of "what not to do"....he gave us the example of "what we should do"....musical instruments were not mentioned by Him, so they are not scriptural....an example: Noah was told to build the Ark from gopher wood.....there was no need to list what woods he could not use, since God had already told him which wood he COULD use......there are 3 ways to get scriptural authority for something: 1. Direct command (there isn't one regarding instrumental music) 2. Apostolic example (again, it does not exist in regards to instrumental music) 3. Direct logical inference (none can be made in regards to instrumental music) Therefore, instrumental music when used in the worship is done so WITHOUT the authority of the scriptures....it is an addition to the Word, and we are warned against that several times.... Uzzah's death shows us that God does not accept anything as good that He did not command (i.e. instrumental music in worship).....Uzzah, and David from the looks of the scripture, though that the action of saving the Ark of the Covenant from falling off the cart was a good thing....however, it violated a direct command of God (given in Leviticus) about handling the Ark.....God was NOT pleased and did NOT see it as a good deed..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RETIREDFAN1 Posted February 19, 2010 Share Posted February 19, 2010 Just an addendum to my previous post, I could ask you where exactly Jesus gives us a command to use music and dancing.....He doesn't.....he is silent on this matter, so we don't have authorization to enter an opinion on it...we remain silent where the Lord remained silent and don't add to His word..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveTV1 Posted February 19, 2010 Share Posted February 19, 2010 I think that Baptism is necessary, otherwise Christian Churches would not practice baptism at all. I believe that their has been an apostasy of the early Christian Church. I believe that it was foretold in Isaiah Chapter 24:5 "The earth also is defield under the inhabitants thereof; because they have transgressed the laws, changed the ordinance, broken the everlasting covenant." There are many prophets that wrote of the last days, not just John the Revelator. It was going on even during the time of the apostles as pointed out with Titus. There were two verses that struck me after being led to it, and Titus is a quick book to read. The verses that blasted out to me were Titus 1: 16 "They profess that they know God; but in works they deny Him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate." I always capitalize Him, when I am writing about God. Also it also shows that faith and works go hand in hand. I can't just say I believe in Jesus Christ. I have to live the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Yes, we're all human and we fail. However the price has been paid with Christ's blood for our forgiveness of sins. When I read scriptures, I read the entire chapter, because many things especially with the Apostle Paul are written sarcastically as an example of what not to do. This shows that baptism is not a work to me in Titus Chapter 3:5 it sates "Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy He saved us, by the washing of regenration (baptism in my book), and renewing of the Holy Ghost." As for works as well in Titus 3: 8 "This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men." That tells me if your going to talk the talk, you'd better be ready to walk the walk. You just can't say I believe, and expect to be saved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RETIREDFAN1 Posted February 19, 2010 Share Posted February 19, 2010 Good job, Dave, that is EXACTLY what Titus is showing us...baptism isn't a meritorious work on our part...it is God working to cleanse the soul of the one whose faith lead them to obey..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chase.colston Posted February 19, 2010 Share Posted February 19, 2010 From Jeremiah 31 "The LORD appeared to us in the past, [a] saying: "I have loved you with an everlasting love; I have drawn you with loving-kindness. I will build you up again and you will be rebuilt, O Virgin Israel. Again you will take up your tambourines and go out to dance with the joyful. Again you will plant vineyards on the hills of Samaria; the farmers will plant them and enjoy their fruit." From Psalms "Praise him with the sounding of the trumpet, praise him with the harp and lyre, praise him with tambourine and dancing, praise him with the strings and flute, praise him with the clash of cymbals, praise him with resounding cymbals." From Chronicles "The descendants of Merari: Mahli, Libni his son, Shimei his son, Uzzah his son, Shimea his son, Haggiah his son and Asaiah his son. The Temple Musicians. These are the men David put in charge of the music in the house of the LORD after the ark came to rest there. 32 They ministered with music before the tabernacle, the Tent of Meeting, until Solomon built the temple of the LORD in Jerusalem. They performed their duties according to the regulations laid down for them." That took about five minutes. The defense rests, your honor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RETIREDFAN1 Posted February 19, 2010 Share Posted February 19, 2010 From Jeremiah 31 "The LORD appeared to us in the past, [a] saying: "I have loved you with an everlasting love; I have drawn you with loving-kindness. I will build you up again and you will be rebuilt, O Virgin Israel. Again you will take up your tambourines and go out to dance with the joyful. Again you will plant vineyards on the hills of Samaria; the farmers will plant them and enjoy their fruit." From Psalms "Praise him with the sounding of the trumpet, praise him with the harp and lyre, praise him with tambourine and dancing, praise him with the strings and flute, praise him with the clash of cymbals, praise him with resounding cymbals." From Chronicles "The descendants of Merari: Mahli, Libni his son, Shimei his son, Uzzah his son, Shimea his son, Haggiah his son and Asaiah his son. The Temple Musicians. These are the men David put in charge of the music in the house of the LORD after the ark came to rest there. 32 They ministered with music before the tabernacle, the Tent of Meeting, until Solomon built the temple of the LORD in Jerusalem. They performed their duties according to the regulations laid down for them." That took about five minutes. The defense rests, your honor. Predictable....those are OT scriptures. You will not fiind Jesus OR one of His apostles mentioning instrumental music in the worship of God here on Earth, nor will you find an example of it in use in the New Testament.....your move, sir.... :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveTV1 Posted February 19, 2010 Share Posted February 19, 2010 I think the Lord loves to hear us rejoicing Him in many manners. I have never had a problem with people dancing or singing. Then again, I like music. I've never seen it condemed by God in the scriptures. I read this scripture the other day, because of a song a friend shared with me. Sometimes I think The Bible is to be taken literally and other times symbolically. I think it's the interpretations of men that have caused much of the disagreements between denominations and religions as a whole. Luke 14:26 : "If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple. " What that means to me isn't that we should hate them, but to hate the flesh of our bodies and how it is carnal and of the world. Since the subject title has been changed, I think we should be able to discuss any topic regarding religion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RETIREDFAN1 Posted February 19, 2010 Share Posted February 19, 2010 What it means to hate them is to not love them more than you love the Lord.....if you love anyone or anything more than you love God, then you are not worthy to be one of His disciples..... Yes, I changed the title so that we can discuss any topic in the religious realm...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chase.colston Posted February 19, 2010 Share Posted February 19, 2010 There is nothing in the New Testament commanding NOT to use instruments. When things such as instruments are used to glorify God, to call it sinful is insane. I'm willing to bet there's going to be all kinds of dancing and instruments in Heaven, and as God is my witness, I'm going to dance in His presence right next to David. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonSwanson Posted February 19, 2010 Share Posted February 19, 2010 I would think organ music would be wrong in the church...lol.....just kidding....Is it wrong to listen to stringed gospel music? Is it wrong to worship with musicial instruments at home? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonSwanson Posted February 19, 2010 Share Posted February 19, 2010 There is nothing in the New Testament commanding NOT to use instruments. When things such as instruments are used to glorify God, to call it sinful is insane. I'm willing to bet there's going to be all kinds of dancing and instruments in Heaven, and as God is my witness, I'm going to dance in His presence right next to David. I believe God loves music(gospel of course)....when He created Satan he built music into him.(Isaiah 14:11) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveTV1 Posted February 19, 2010 Share Posted February 19, 2010 I believe God loves music(gospel of course)....when He created Satan he built music into him.(Isaiah 14:11) That verse to me is saying that idiot was tooting his horn for himself too much. I can't take that scripture as saying idiot could play great music as praise to God, because he did the exact opposite by opposing God. God hasn't condemned music in any commandment, nor has He condemned dancing for His pleasure. In Psalms 149 : 1 , David tells us to "Praise ye the Lord. Sing unto the Lord a new song, and his praise in the congregation of saints." Read the whole chapter, because David was already in trouble with the Lord. Isaiah was very different than David, and Isaiah saw the last days. You have to understand that Isaiah was touched by a coal to speak for God. Isaiah Chapter 42 read it in its entirety, but verses 10-12 always spoke to me : 10 "Sing unto the Lord a new song, and His praise from the end of the earth, ye that go down to the sea, and all that is therein; the isles, and the inhabitants thereof." 11 "Let the wilderness and the cities thereof lift up their voice, the villages that Kedar doth inhabit: let the inhabitants of the rock sing, let them shout from the top of the mountains." 12 " Let them give glory unto the Lord, and declare his praise in the islands." I think that it is ludicrious to assume, that God changed His mind about glorifying Him. Christ's life was short, and I still don't think we know everything about the life of Jesus Christ in a few short books, that give different perspectives of Jesus Christ in a few short chapters. I think more of us know about the life of mere mortal men, than we do of Jesus Christ. To me that's a shame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheShadowKnows Posted February 19, 2010 Author Share Posted February 19, 2010 <H2 id=passage_heading>Galatians 1:8-9 (King James Version)</H2> 8But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. 9As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed. ------ Agree or disagree these people have or have not preached another gospel. Those that preach a (black) liberation theology like at Chicago's Trinity United Church Of Christ (0bamas church in chitown) Westboro Baptist church- founder Fred Phelps dude Muslims- Believe that there was a Jesus but believe Mohammand was the last prophet becuase of a special revelation given to him by an angel Mormans-Believe that Jo Smith was the final prophet and he too was given special revelation by an angel. JW- It denies the deity of Christ, His physical resurrection, and salvation by grace. This alone makes it non-Christian. To support its erring doctrines, the Watchtower organization (which is the author and teacher of all official Jehovah's Witness theology), has even altered the Bible to make it agree with its changing and non-Christian teachings The "social gospel" that is preached by a lot of socialist/communist that play on peoples emotion to help others by taking from others. Has anybody ever heard of this guy? .....Eric vonAnderseck because he is a self proclaimed apostle of God who says he is commissioned by God to reveal the "true and restored" gospel to the North American continent. ..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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