Monday Scores

[ooRufusoo]

I guess you don't get it. I am not commenting on the specific situation in your district. I am speaking of the role of the referee in general.

 

By the way, anyone has reason or rights to an opinion or comments in a public forum, otherwise it would be in private IM's, so don't be offended or narcistict.

 

The point I am trying to make is the referees do not decide who wins and loses. The referees only call the match as the players dictate.

It seems you have a problem with the quality of refereeing in games you discuss. I understand you feel that some of the calls affect one team adversly, while benefiting the other.

 

All I am trying to get across, is it happens, and it happens everywhere to a degree. My other point,he flip side of the coin is if referee quality is the concern, it ill be hard to resolve when the ones who are doing the calls, or the ones thinking of becoming refs are not respected, or even berated. It will snowball the other way.

 

I will ask the question, have you (not just you, but in general all those who gripe) ever tried it? Have you put on the badge, stepped onto the pitch as a referee, and been overwhelmed by the myriad decisions you must make live, and at speed? Have you listened to fans that have misinformed, if any knowledge of the game, or it's strategies and laws, as they try to arbitrate from the stands? Have you been cursed from the bench or stands by people who disagree with your judgement (opinion) calls?

 

if you haven't, I recommend that you, or anyone else complaining about the quality of referees step up and try it. When you have walked (run) the miles in those shoes, maybe you will have a better perspective of ALL aspects of the game, not just reading books or playing. Maybe you are part of the solution you seek, you just need to get involved. If not, Who Will?

 

Good Post

[futfan]

Good Post.... I understand what you are saying and yes I have walked in thsoe shoes. My problem this year after watching many games is this. I dont know if it is in a book or if it is just simple ethics. You just do not call a foul in the box within the last 5 min of a game unless it is obvious. I know refs agree to call the game for 90 min, however when this has happened to you team 4 times this year, and you have watched other teams lose the same way, there is something wrong here.

 

I have played soccer at a very good HS and i played in college. I have been a ref as well i know what its like. The people in the stands shoudnt even matter to a ref because tehey do not have any idea what they are talking about. They know that before they even start. Its just gotten worse this year for whatever reason, kinda hard to watch.

 

I think we understand each other.

Futfan out!

:hug:

[bordertown]

You just do not call a foul in the box within the last 5 min of a game unless it is obvious.

 

That is your opinion. If you re-read this thread there are opinions the game should be called in the first minute the same as the last minute. Some of those comments are from coaches. On any foul in the box, usually one team agrees and the other team disagrees. The corollary is for every "non call" in the box, one team agrees and the other disagrees. I attempt to be consistent in my calls. I may warn a player on actions that could get the player in trouble at a critical moment of the game. If he ignores my warning, it is "buyer beware".

 

As an official I have witnessed many a foul which from my point of view, I would have call the other direction. When I ask my fellow official what he saw that was different from my view, it is often a shirt pull, handling the ball, etc.. The angle makes all the difference in what is "obvious". Being 70 yards away from the call, I doubt you have the best angle. The key was the referee in position to make the call?

 

During the last 5 minutes, should an official only call "obvious fouls" anywhere on the pitch? What is the purpose of the penalty area?

[taz3]

I agree this is a 90 min game not a 85 min game. I have seen some pretty bad officiating and seen some great officiating . My point is if u are going to call be consistant with your calls, don't make calls because you have people yelling at you. It is tough being a ref, i am a fan unlikesome of the comments about fans not knowing what they are talking about is a bunch of ....

I have played hs, club, and college I do know the game and so do a hole lot more. I had an experience this year for the first time ever that i got tossed from the stands. I was hot at an official for calling one-sided and yelled open your eyes and was tossed. So i understand everyones view point. All I can say for the coaches is tell your kids to play for 90 min and do not let an official or anyone else dictate a game. Anything can happen. This is soccer.

[Crankit]

I agree this is a 90 min game not a 85 min game. I have seen some pretty bad officiating and seen some great officiating . My point is if u are going to call be consistant with your calls, don't make calls because you have people yelling at you. It is tough being a ref, i am a fan unlikesome of the comments about fans not knowing what they are talking about is a bunch of ....

I have played hs, club, and college I do know the game and so do a hole lot more. I had an experience this year for the first time ever that i got tossed from the stands. I was hot at an official for calling one-sided and yelled open your eyes and was tossed. So i understand everyones view point. All I can say for the coaches is tell your kids to play for 90 min and do not let an official or anyone else dictate a game. Anything can happen. This is soccer.

 

I agree. I was at the REL-LINDALE match earlier this year and the center official was remarkably one-

sided in REL's favor. He either missed or ignored OBVIOUS calls which could have easily made a difference in the match and affected the outcome. (If he missed them, he does not need to be refereeing anymore...they were blatant.) He called the game tighter against Lindale, letting the same fouls go for REL. He awarded goal kicks to REL when it was clearly corners for Lindale. And the AR had trouble figuring out which way to point his flag. That was the single worst officiated match I have ever seen. And a spectator did get ejected for disagreeing with the referee. The officiating this year has been very poor. And fyi...I graduated from REL but thought Lindale was done a great diservice by the center ref.

[lawdog18]

Taz, we are not playing professional ball. Its 80 minutes not 90! lol

[ooRufusoo]

I agree. I was at the REL-LINDALE match earlier this year and the center official was remarkably one-

sided in REL's favor. He either missed or ignored OBVIOUS calls which could have easily made a difference in the match and affected the outcome. (If he missed them, he does not need to be refereeing anymore...they were blatant.) He called the game tighter against Lindale, letting the same fouls go for REL. He awarded goal kicks to REL when it was clearly corners for Lindale. And the AR had trouble figuring out which way to point his flag. That was the single worst officiated match I have ever seen. And a spectator did get ejected for disagreeing with the referee. The officiating this year has been very poor. And fyi...I graduated from REL but thought Lindale was done a great diservice by the center ref.

 

 

Be careful what you say, because apparently refs are doing a great job. This is all I was trying to point out. But you might get called out saying you dont know how long games are and that its your sons or daughters fault for letting it happen. People that havent seen enough games wouldnt know information like this or they think you are some stupid fan. But i agree with everything you have said and understand.

[ooRufusoo]

That is your opinion. If you re-read this thread there are opinions the game should be called in the first minute the same as the last minute. Some of those comments are from coaches. On any foul in the box, usually one team agrees and the other team disagrees. The corollary is for every "non call" in the box, one team agrees and the other disagrees. I attempt to be consistent in my calls. I may warn a player on actions that could get the player in trouble at a critical moment of the game. If he ignores my warning, it is "buyer beware".

 

As an official I have witnessed many a foul which from my point of view, I would have call the other direction. When I ask my fellow official what he saw that was different from my view, it is often a shirt pull, handling the ball, etc.. The angle makes all the difference in what is "obvious". Being 70 yards away from the call, I doubt you have the best angle. The key was the referee in position to make the call?

 

During the last 5 minutes, should an official only call "obvious fouls" anywhere on the pitch? What is the purpose of the penalty area?

 

 

I can read just fine. I have pretty much kept this thread going with my "ignorance". The situations i have seen kids werent warned. Like it was just said as a ref you have to be consistent as possible the ENTIRE GAME. I know they are trying but you dont let stuff go the entire game and then turn it on the last 5 min and call every call either. So the ref has to officiate the game the entire 90 min as well. I wouldnt be even talking about this if it wsa an obvious foiul in the box or even slightly. These are no brainers, but like ive said if you havent seen them there really isnt any reason to comment on them i was just making a statement.

[Crankit]

Be careful what you say, because apparently refs are doing a great job. This is all I was trying to point out. But you might get called out saying you dont know how long games are and that its your sons or daughters fault for letting it happen. People that havent seen enough games wouldnt know information like this or they think you are some stupid fan. But i agree with everything you have said and understand.

 

 

They can call me out...I really don't mind. I am a REL supporter but the night of the REL-Lindale match, Lindale had as many or more fans in attendance, and I would bet they would ALL agree with me. The center was arrogantly showing favoritism and I have not gone to anymore matches for any school since that night. Left a disappointingly bitter taste in my mouth. Just giving my opinion. No place for one-sided officiating in ANY sport.

 

I have played and coached the little kids In Tyler and surrounding small towns. Been involved in soccer for a couple of decades. I am younger than most all those old refs but older than the new ones, and thought about being a ref because I do know the laws of the game. But i really don't want to be associated with or have the stomach for organizational "politics" and power trips. Plus I agree with some earlier posts...the pay just isn't high enough for me to give up evenings with my beautiful wife and kids, regardless of my love for the game. Officials do get paid and call themselves "professional referees", so they don't do it just because they love it, otherwise gas money would be sufficient. But even at the rec level the officiating here isn't the same quality as in the DFW region.

 

I don't want to lump ALL the soccer officials into one category. There are some that are good and show consistiency and good judgement with no favoritism to either side, especially the younger or newer refs. I always heard that Longview chapter officials were more consistent but according to this forum, maybe the lack of quality officials in ETEX is widespread. Maybe thats why more ETEX officials are not used in state level playoff matches. Could be their association with TASO and not the UIL, I don't know...but it makes you wonder. Maybe UIL intervention would bring about enough new leadership blood to effect a change for the better.

[ooRufusoo]

They can call me out...I really don't mind. I am a REL supporter but the night of the REL-Lindale match, Lindale had as many or more fans in attendance, and I would bet they would ALL agree with me. The center was arrogantly showing favoritism. Just giving my opinion. No place for one-sided officiating in ANY sport.

 

I have played and coached the little kids In Tyler and surrounding small towns. Been involved in soccer for a couple of decades. I am younger than most all those old refs but older than the new ones, and thought about being a ref because I do know the laws of the game. But i really don't want to be associated with or have the stomach for organizational "politics" and power trips. Plus I agree with some earlier posts...the pay just isn't high enough for me to give up evenings with my beautiful wife and kids, regardless of my love for the game. Officials do get paid and call themselves "professional referees", so they don't do it just because they love it, otherwise gas money would be sufficient. But even at the rec level the officiating here isn't the same quality as in the DFW region.

 

I don't want to lump ALL the soccer officials into one category. There are some that are good and show consistiency and good judgement with no favoritism to either side, especially the younger or newer refs. I always heard that Longview chapter officials were more consistent but according to this forum, maybe the lack of quality officials in ETEX is widespread. Maybe thats why more ETEX officials are not used in state level playoff matches. Could be their association with TASO and not the UIL, I don't know...but it makes you wonder. Maybe UIL intervention would bring about enough new leadership blood to effect a change for the better.

 

ooo goodness thats opening a whole new can of worms.

[Crankit]

ooo goodness thats opening a whole new can of worms.

 

 

Well I am with you. The officiating as of late (2-3 yrs.) has been extremely frustrating. Inconsistent. There has to be a solution and like with almost anything involving an organization, it must be from the leadership. I expect to get ripped up over those comments, but it's my belief, just like in political matters, new leadership, not necessarily change, is needed.

[ooRufusoo]

Well I am with you. The officiating as of late (2-3 yrs.) has been extremely frustrating. Inconsistent. There has to be a solution and like with almost anything involving an organization, it must be from the leadership. I expect to get ripped up over those comments, but it's my belief, just like in political matters, new leadership, not necessarily change, is needed.

 

:crybaby:

[myinput]

:banghead: Enough Boys!!!!!!!!

 

 

As I said It is time to change the subject!!! :banghead:

[ooRufusoo]

As I said It is time to change the subject!!! :banghead:

 

 

Stop coming in here forum police. Nobodys making you read anything.

[myinput]

Stop coming in here forum police. Nobodys making you read anything.

 

 

LOL :rofl: "Monday Scores"

[mama]

I will add my two cents although it may not be worth two cents.

I ref, coach and more important than both of those is that I am a soccer mom.

We have had two good refs this season. ONLY TWO. We have been fortunate to have one ot them twice. The rest of the season has been a crapshoot. We have had bad calls against us as well as the other team. I work with some of these refs and I have seen refs that only do as high as Under 12 in rec doing a better job than the ones who are supposed to know what they are doing. Offsides should not be a difficult thing for a seasoned ref but when they don't pay attention they miss them. Everyone misses calls but it is the arrogance of which they are missing these calls that annoys me. I see the good ones talk to coaches and parents and have had them ask me what I thought and what I thought that they missed. They did this because they knew they weren't perfect but want to do a great job. I agree that the officiating has gotten worse overall and maybe new leadership is needed, but I want to praise the ones who are trying and doing it right.

[toohottohandle]

it has gotten worse every year. just my 2 cents

[Crankit]

The UIL has a manual that covers behavior for all it's athletic events. The title is Character, Attitude, Responsibility and Ethics, CARE. Every Fan, Coach and Official should read it. It spells out what behavior is acceptable.

 

The bottom line is the athletic field is an extension of the classroom and all behavior on the athletic field should be the same as it is in the classroom.

 

Below is the link. Please take the time to read it and reflect on your actions as well as the actions of others.

 

http://www.uil.utexas.edu/athletics/manual...ship_manual.pdf

 

 

Problem is that officials around here are not under the UIL jurisdiction. They call games for the UIL, but have no UIL leadership. They can act and interpret anyway they want and have no accountability for their actions, aside from school districts complaining. I believe there is ongoing legal action as we speak between TASO and the UIL. I may not understand the entire jest of what is happenning legally, but I would not (as a businessman) want people working for me, making decisions and being agents of my company, that did not answer to and make themselves accountable to me.

[new2tex]

I ref, coach and more important than both of those is that I am a soccer mom.

We have had two good refs this season. ONLY TWO. We have been fortunate to have one ot them twice. The rest of the season has been a crapshoot. We have had bad calls against us as well as the other team. I work with some of these refs and I have seen refs that only do as high as Under 12 in rec doing a better job than the ones who are supposed to know what they are doing. Offsides should not be a difficult thing for a seasoned ref but when they don't pay attention they miss them. Everyone misses calls but it is the arrogance of which they are missing these calls that annoys me. I see the good ones talk to coaches and parents and have had them ask me what I thought and what I thought that they missed. They did this because they knew they weren't perfect but want to do a great job. I agree that the officiating has gotten worse overall and maybe new leadership is needed, but I want to praise the ones who are trying and doing it right.

 

This seems to be what everyone on this thread is upset about. The "arrogance" of the refs. Crankit says it is about accountability. I agree with futfan. Center refs have the most difficult job of all sports officials. They must make split second judgement calls and then take the verbal abuse for making a call based on their understanding of the Laws of the game. In defending their call, maybe they appear arrogant? Maybe they would be more consistent with better accountability. Bottom line is this...they are what you have and what you will get. Every match, every week. I say just deal with it and move on.

[bordertown]

Problem is that officials around here are not under the UIL jurisdiction. They call games for the UIL, but have no UIL leadership. They can act and interpret anyway they want and have no accountability for their actions, aside from school districts complaining. I believe there is ongoing legal action as we speak between TASO and the UIL. I may not understand the entire jest of what is happenning legally, but I would not (as a businessman) want people working for me, making decisions and being agents of my company, that did not answer to and make themselves accountable to me.

 

First of all officials work for themselves as independent contractors. The legal action between TASO and the UIL will not change this fact. Mechanisms are in place for the coaches to police the officials. Here is the catch. If they wholesale scratch officials and drive them from the game, what is the result? Initially you will have a dual system of officiating, next games being cancelled for the lack of officials.

 

Secondly, officials are under UIL jurisdication. There is an entire section of their constitution relating to officials. The UIL regulates the pay schools can pay for officials. They require us to take COPE training annually. One of the driving issues in the lawsuit is some chapters in other sports were attempting to get schools to pay more than the UIL mandated rate.

 

I do not think the UIL (University of Texas) would want to add 15,000 officials in Texas as employees. However most officials would probably be agreeable. Have Workers' Compensation when we are injured would be nice. The thought of a retirement pay would be enticing. Having an employee handbook where we cannot be discharged for age discrimination. I do like the idea - it won't happen.

 

The reason the check and balance does not work is supply and demand. There is a great demand for officials and unfortunately not a supply. Two of the more vocal critics on this thread claim to have officiated soccer, but choose to sit in the stands. I guarantee my wife is not crazy about me calling a game on Friday night while she is at home. Everyone has reasons they cannot call high school games. Some are legit and should be respected. Other just like to complain. Fix the supply issue and the rest will fall in place.

 

The thought that UIL taking over the officials will change anything is naive. The UIL intends to keep the same chapter system in place. In most cases the chapter leadership will remain the same. In some casing new leadership will be put in place. The UIL states they will have the chapters assess officials. How is this going to be accomplished and how will it funded. Currently most officials pay the chapter assignor a fee for assigning games as the UIL rules do not allow the schools to pay the chapter a fee. I suspect the same will occur with assessing fees. Great idea, but not practical to have an individual drive 200 miles round trip to assess a game on a Tuesday night. I doubt the schools or the UIL would like to fund this venture. The UIL has is one official on staff to cover all sports and 15,000 officials.

 

If the UIL and schools want to improve officiating, they need to improve the "workplace enviroment". The demeanor of the coaches and students should be an easy fix. If the school administrators got out of the cozy confines of the pressboxes and monitored the fan would be an improvement. I have the skin of an elephant so it does not bother me, but I have seen good officials driven from the game because of fan, coach, and player abuse. Borrowing from an old adage - "You reap what you sow".

 

So where are the good officials? Many are at home with their wives this Friday night. Unfortunately, you are stuck with the product of your distain.