LE RB James changes plea to "No Contest" in Oregon

[JUSTwannaSAY2u]

in today's society..we are guilty until proven innoscent

 

 

well said.....today everyonr thinks the worst first....our judicial systems says we are innoscent until proven guilty but thats not the case...just like in ben rothlesburgers case, everyone says he did it and so on...whether he is or not it has to be proven..now of days its your guilty until proven innoscent..in this case you have two young people acting there age

[DieHardCubFan]

God forbid any guy put their hands on Survivor's, Knowitall's, or TopKitty's daughter(s) (if they have or ever will have any)....

 

...of course, based on their way of thinking (and comments in support of their hometown hero - LaMichael James) - I'm sure that they will see it as nothing more than a simple mistake by a 20 year old boy...

[Survivor]

God forbid any guy put their hands on Survivor's, Knowitall's, or TopKitty's daughter(s) if they have or ever will have any)....

 

...of course, based on their way of thinking (and comments in support of LaMichael James) - I'm sure that they will see it as nothing more than a simple mistake by a 20 year old boy...

 

Yes I do have a daughter, and I hope that my daughter has more respect for herself then to go to some boys house when he is not home to confront a house guest that he has, and make a scene, be asked to leave but refuse and have to physically be removed from in front of his door because she is trying to confront the house guest.

 

You said you read the court records, maybe I am missing it somewhere in there but, I do not see the woman beater that you see, so yes I do still see it as a simple mistake by a two 20 year old kids....his mistake in hindsight was he should have just called the police and let them handle the situation from the get go, her mistake was she shouldnt have went to his home when he wasnt there to confront his house guest.

Not trying to be a smart TobinFrost but lets review....she was asked to leave his home and refused (would that be considered tresspassing) she broke the necklace that was around his neck (destruction of property/assualt since it was around his neck) entered and refused to leave his POV (tresspass) took his keys and attemted to flee (theft)

he put his hands on her arms and removed her from the front of his front door (assualt????) he grabbed her collar and pushed her (assualt, i will give you that one, its not alot but still assualt, but by no means a woman beater or strangulation) he chases after her and grabs her around the waist and they both fall to the ground in mulch and takes his keys (not assualt, and possibly where the alleged marks came from that the media reported)

They then sit there and talked without further incident until she gets in her vehicle and leaves....

 

So yes as a father of a daughter I still see it as simple mistakes by both parties, I'm sorry I just dont see this as serious as the press and some here make it out to be, but I do understand where you are coming from with your past experiences. Just remember that everyone accused of this is not that man from your past.

[jsharp3353]

There are some who plead guilty to a crime that aren't guilty. Then there are some who are guilty that are found innocent. It's part of the flaws in our legal system. The only people who know what truly happened are the two involved and the Lord above. With that being said, TheRedBaron has the best post on this thread.

 

 

[DieHardCubFan]

Survivor - I agree with you in part.

 

I would hope that all three (3) of my daughters would have enough self-respect to (1) not date someone like LaMichael James and (2) not to give a boy the time of day once he was caught two-timing her, and (3) to never allow a boy (although at 20 - he's a man & should start acting like one) to lay his hands on her - ever!

 

My eldest daughter just divorced a complete #### & we are so glad she is rid of him (although they have a son together & he makes it difficult on her as the days go on). However - before she married him & within days of their filing for divorce one thing was made clear to him - you lay a hand on her - they will never find your body! I believe that although he is about as big of an idoit as they come - he has at least heeded my guarantee!

 

I do hope this young man learns from this & goes on to be a better man and never stoops to the level to put his hands on another woman - no matter the situation. HE needs to be the bigger of the two 20 year olds - he should have simply done exactly what you said - called the local police & let them handle the situation. However, he made the conscience choice (his own remarks) to do what he di and I commend him for taking responsibility for it.

 

And jsharp - if you are not guilty - never plead guilty. You'll never win the argument that you are not so, once you've done so!

 

[LoneStardom5]

yes.... everyone would have handled the situation a lot better than James, who is 20 and has woman coming at him left and right, along with everthing else that comes with being a football God on campus...

 

Handle it like Tiger Woods, and Ray Lewis and Jason Williams and Kobe Bryant and all the other PROFESSIONAL ATHLETES who are getting payed, and way more mature than a kid whos probably never been out of Texarkana...

 

Shame Shame on LaMichael for being a kid in a spot and not knowing how to handle a situation...

 

Cut his scholorship and take away his life.....Lets stone him... GIVE ME A BREAK....

 

Good luck Lamichael in all your endeavors... i pray you learn from this and become a better man...

 

 

[jsharp3353]

And jsharp - if you are not guilty - never plead guilty. You'll never win the argument that you are not so, once you've done so!

 

 

I couldn't agree more, unfortunatley, this is not an option for some people. If you are involved in the legal system at all you will understand the point I am trying to make. And again, TheRedBaron has the best post on this thread hands down.

[DieHardCubFan]

This is one of the things that is wrong with America today - he is not a football god (and you should never use a capital G with "od" unless you are speaking of Him who is God). LaMichael James (and anyone one else fortunate to play college or professional sports is NOT a god...much less a role model!)

 

What he is is a student who is currently fortunate to have someone pay for his college education while he is also fortunate to play a kid's game. Nothing more.

 

Secondly, he is 20 years old. It is long past time for someone to grow up. Kids today want all of these responsibilities and privileges (i.e. driving a car, voting, buying cigarettes, alcohol, etc.) - yet they simply can not accept the fact that with these privileges come responsibility! I once again comment LaMichael James for taking responsibility for his...HIS actions. And maybe this will be a major turning point in his life for the good.

 

And what does Texarkana have to do with it? So now people can blame their criminal behavior (or as James' fan-club would say - stupid mistake) on the fact that they have never been out of Texarkana? I would imagone that the other posters from the Texarkana area who have defended James in this topic wouldn't even bite off on this one!

 

You are right Lonesome - give me a break!

[CoachRealRodney]

Once again Disappointed, not suprised!!!

 

 

[DieHardCubFan]

And jsharp - if you are not guilty - never plead guilty. You'll never win the argument that you are not so, once you've done so![/i]

 

 

I couldn't agree more, unfortunatley, this is not an option for some people. If you are involved in the legal system at all you will understand the point I am trying to make. And again, TheRedBaron has the best post on this thread hands down.

 

 

Jsharp - Why is this not an option, pray tell?

[jsharp3353]

And jsharp - if you are not guilty - never plead guilty. You'll never win the argument that you are not so, once you've done so![/i]

 

 

I couldn't agree more, unfortunatley, this is not an option for some people. If you are involved in the legal system at all you will understand the point I am trying to make. And again, TheRedBaron has the best post on this thread hands down.

 

 

 

Jsharp - Why is this not an option, pray tell?

 

By that question it tells me you have no experience with the legal system. To most it's obvious, if your innocent, by God your innocent and no one can take that away from you. But, if it's a he said she said, or one witness versus another witness, with the one witness having more witnesses than the other,, then sometimes plea bargain is the only option. Trust me, I am not a bleeding heart or anything close to it, but sometimes (and I have no idea in this case, wasn't there and really don't care) justice does not prevail. Anyway, I'll say again, TheRedBaron has the best post on here.

[DieHardCubFan]

By that question it tells me you have no experience with the legal system. To most it's obvious, if your innocent, by God your innocent and no one can take that away from you. But, if it's a he said she said, or one witness versus another witness, with the one witness having more witnesses than the other,, then sometimes plea bargain is the only option. Trust me, I am not a bleeding heart or anything close to it, but sometimes (and I have no idea in this case, wasn't there and really don't care) justice does not prevail.

 

 

 

Either you are innocent or you are not. No problem there.

 

However, if you did not commit a crime (i.e. burglary, sexual assault, murder, assault or even physical harassment) - then why would you ever plead guilty? It is because you know you were wrong - period!

 

 

And by the way jsharp - I've been a licensed peace officer for over 27 years; spent 14 years investigating violent crimes (such as homicides [150 of them], sexual assaults, & robberies); and I have three college degrees (including a Master's degree - where my published thesis focused on domestic violence investigations) in the field of criminal justice. I've testified in over 1,000 criminal trials (both as a prosecution witness & a defense witness). I've helped put 13 individuals in death row & have seen 9 of them executed for their horrendous crimes!

 

So - I believe I DO know a little bit about the criminal justice system....

[LoneStardom5]

This is one of the things that is wrong with America today - he is not a football god (and you should never use a capital G with "od" unless you are speaking of Him who is God). LaMichael James (and anyone one else fortunate to play college or professional sports is NOT a god...much less a role model!)

 

What he is is a student who is currently fortunate to have someone pay for his college education while he is also fortunate to play a kid's game. Nothing more.

 

Secondly, he is 20 years old. It is long past time for someone to grow up. Kids today want all of these responsibilities and privileges (i.e. driving a car, voting, buying cigarettes, alcohol, etc.) - yet they simply can not accept the fact that with these privileges come responsibility! I once again comment LaMichael James for taking responsibility for his...HIS actions. And maybe this will be a major turning point in his life for the good.

 

And what does Texarkana have to do with it? So now people can blame their criminal behavior (or as James' fan-club would say - stupid mistake) on the fact that they have never been out of Texarkana? I would imagone that the other posters from the Texarkana area who have defended James in this topic wouldn't even bite off on this one!

 

You are right Lonesome - give me a break!

 

take its for what its worth and dont read into it... yes athletes are treated differently (argo the "football god", no capital this time...my mistake) def wasnt sayin hes above the law or anyone else... simply saying hes human... a kid... experiencing college life, outside of northeast texas, all the while having people scrutinize his moves.... college is big adjustment for many non-athletes, moving that far away from friends and family.... yes he should take responsibility/suffer consequences... just dont like seeing kid bashed for something NO ONE knows whole story about, or by people who cant seem to put themselves in others shoes...

 

i see we sidestep the professional athletes who get the passes for murder, affairs, and rape...

[BCFlash]

Either you are innocent or you are not. No problem there.

 

However, if you did not commit a crime (i.e. burglary, sexual assault, murder, assault or even physical harassment) - then why would you ever plead guilty? It is because you know you were wrong - period!

 

 

And by the way jsharp - I've been a licensed peace officer for over 27 years; spent 14 years investigating violent crimes (such as homicides [150 of them], sexual assaults, & robberies); and I have three college degrees (including a Master's degree - where my published thesis focused on domestic violence investigations) in the field of criminal justice. I've testified in over 1,000 criminal trials (both as a prosecution witness & a defense witness). I've helped put 13 individuals in death row & have seen 9 of them executed for their horrendous crimes!

 

So - I believe I DO know a little bit about the criminal justice system....

 

Boss Hogg is God!

[Survivor]

This is one of the things that is wrong with America today - he is not a football god (and you should never use a capital G with "od" unless you are speaking of Him who is God). LaMichael James (and anyone one else fortunate to play college or professional sports is NOT a god...much less a role model!)

 

What he is is a student who is currently fortunate to have someone pay for his college education while he is also fortunate to play a kid's game. Nothing more.

 

Secondly, he is 20 years old. It is long past time for someone to grow up. Kids today want all of these responsibilities and privileges (i.e. driving a car, voting, buying cigarettes, alcohol, etc.) - yet they simply can not accept the fact that with these privileges come responsibility! I once again comment LaMichael James for taking responsibility for his...HIS actions. And maybe this will be a major turning point in his life for the good.

 

And what does Texarkana have to do with it? So now people can blame their criminal behavior (or as James' fan-club would say - stupid mistake) on the fact that they have never been out of Texarkana? I would imagone that the other posters from the Texarkana area who have defended James in this topic wouldn't even bite off on this one!

 

You are right Lonesome - give me a break!

 

I agree 100% with your first two points

 

And since I am in the fan club that does consider this to be a stupid mistake, where he is from or where he has been makes no difference....my problem I guess is the way he has been labeled by some, I believe him to be a good kid that made a bad judgement....some still want to consider him a thug.

Although his stupid mistake can also be described as criminal behavior, when I see it described as such I think of much worse crimes, a person that gets a warning for a speeding ticket could also be labeled as criminal behavior, since they did break the law, and no I am not comparing what he did to a speeding ticket, but both crimes that could esculate into something more serious and or life threatening, but after reading the court papers on this case, I see it as a simple mistake. He used bad judgement and tried to handle a situation on his own, maybe he thought he could talk to the girl and calm the situation, and it is obvious he couldnt, and due to both of their actions it esculated quickly and he was over his head. It also could have esculated even further if he was the thug, woman beater, strangler that others have tried to make him out to be. So yes I still consider it a stupid mistake.

 

You have read the court papers....So I ask you was his crimes the only crimes committed that day? If not why is she not getting the same criminal behavior, thug threatment, should lose everything treatment as he is?

[jsharp3353]

Either you are innocent or you are not. No problem there.

 

However, if you did not commit a crime (i.e. burglary, sexual assault, murder, assault or even physical harassment) - then why would you ever plead guilty? It is because you know you were wrong - period!

 

So - I believe I DO know a little bit about the criminal justice system....

 

I've only been a peace officer for 17 years so you got me beat on the experience. And for the most part I couldn't agree with you more. I, myself would never plead guilty to anything I didn't do. But you and I both know they're letting people out of prison daily who have been found innocent. People that plead not guilty but were found guilty and sentenced to life because one person said "yes, I saw him do it." DNA is now proving otherwise. It still goes on today and there are times when a court appointed attorney advises their client to plead guilty to 2 years because they feel like they can't beat the case and are afraid they'll get 20 if they don't. Some will also plead guilty so the record will be expunged at the end of probation. An arrest with a found not guilty verdict will still show on your criminal history and it is very expensive and diffucult to have your CCH cleared after the fact. Anyway, not sure how I got on all this on a highschool sports forum!!

[DieHardCubFan]

You have read the court papers....So I ask you was his crimes the only crimes committed that day? If not why is she not getting the same criminal behavior, thug threatment, should lose everything treatment as he is?

 

 

Survivor - I agree with you. There are two individuals involved here and she is not as pure & innocent as the driven snow. With that said - hopefully if LaMichael is confronted with a similar situation in the future, that he walks away from it & instead of man-handling the situation - he contacts the police. Doing this (walking away from such a situation) would make it clear to more people that he ws a bigger man and more of a man by & for doing so.

 

If he is the good young man that the L-E/Texarkana crew have said is is - then he will move on past this incident an will go on to be a law-abiding citizen and never be involved in a criminal incident again.

 

JSharp - I agree with you that there are people who are being released because of faulty eye-witness testimony. However, unlike what the liberal media would like people to beleive - it is a fraction of a fraction of cases where this is involved. What is more involved is usually an agressive prosecutor who is trying to build themselves a conviction record & simply does not care about justice. As a defense expert witness for the past several years - I have found myself seeing this situation more than I would like to have ever acknowledged before I retired from active law enforcement. Unfortunately - that has nothing to do with this particular case.

 

However, to have a defense attorney convince me to plead guilty (when I am NOT) is simply stupid on that person's part (if, of course, they are actualy, truly innocent) - and it would be time to ask for a new attorney!

[Topcat]

Yes I do have a daughter, and I hope that my daughter has more respect for herself then to go to some boys house when he is not home to confront a house guest that he has, and make a scene, be asked to leave but refuse and have to physically be removed from in front of his door because she is trying to confront the house guest.

 

You said you read the court records, maybe I am missing it somewhere in there but, I do not see the woman beater that you see, so yes I do still see it as a simple mistake by a two 20 year old kids....his mistake in hindsight was he should have just called the police and let them handle the situation from the get go, her mistake was she shouldnt have went to his home when he wasnt there to confront his house guest.

Not trying to be a smart TobinFrost but lets review....she was asked to leave his home and refused (would that be considered tresspassing) she broke the necklace that was around his neck (destruction of property/assualt since it was around his neck) entered and refused to leave his POV (tresspass) took his keys and attemted to flee (theft)

he put his hands on her arms and removed her from the front of his front door (assualt????) he grabbed her collar and pushed her (assualt, i will give you that one, its not alot but still assualt, but by no means a woman beater or strangulation) he chases after her and grabs her around the waist and they both fall to the ground in mulch and takes his keys (not assualt, and possibly where the alleged marks came from that the media reported)

They then sit there and talked without further incident until she gets in her vehicle and leaves....

 

So yes as a father of a daughter I still see it as simple mistakes by both parties, I'm sorry I just dont see this as serious as the press and some here make it out to be, but I do understand where you are coming from with your past experiences. Just remember that everyone accused of this is not that man from your past.

Very well said. This incident has been blown out of proportion. He was trying to restrain and prevent a bad incident from becoming much worse. That is all.

 

[Topcat]

Have you ever grabbed anyone by the collar and left marks on their neck?I have been married 25 years and never done anything like that to my wife. It has just become ok for MEN to put their hands on women. IMO he should be suspended for the year. I guess we were brought up differently

To the best of my knowledge the only mark

was a single abrasion somewhere on her body, but that no visable marks were on her neck.

 

 

[DogonSirius7]

Survivor - I agree with you in part.

 

I would hope that all three (3) of my daughters would have enough self-respect to (1) not date someone like LaMichael James and (2) not to give a boy the time of day once he was caught two-timing her, and (3) to never allow a boy (although at 20 - he's a man & should start acting like one) to lay his hands on her - ever!

 

My eldest daughter just divorced a complete #### & we are so glad she is rid of him (although they have a son together & he makes it difficult on her as the days go on). However - before she married him & within days of their filing for divorce one thing was made clear to him - you lay a hand on her - they will never find your body! I believe that although he is about as big of an idoit as they come - he has at least heeded my guarantee!

 

I do hope this young man learns from this & goes on to be a better man and never stoops to the level to put his hands on another woman - no matter the situation. HE needs to be the bigger of the two 20 year olds - he should have simply done exactly what you said - called the local police & let them handle the situation. However, he made the conscience choice (his own remarks) to do what he di and I commend him for taking responsibility for it.

 

And jsharp - if you are not guilty - never plead guilty. You'll never win the argument that you are not so, once you've done so!

I see that you live in the real world only part of the time. I sincerely hope that neither you, or any or yours ever finds himself in a situation where even though you are really innocent that you are forced to decide whether you will plead innocent and face a trial where there is a good chance that you could be proven guilty and face official legal sanctioning. There are people who have pleaded guilty inorder to receive a plea deal because of the uncertainty of the legal process. The prosecutors, a significant part of the time, do not care if you are innocent or not. You, for some reason have been charged with a crime, (even though you are really innocent), and that prosecutor's job is to see that your are found guilty, (even though you are really innocent). The prosecutor has you over a barrell and yes, that is an onerous flaw in the legal system. So, if you take a plea deal that causes you to plead guilty to a misdemeanor, instead of going to trial (which your chances of winning are not 100%) and facing a felony conviction and its ramafacations. You have just found yourself faced with possibly facing the lesser of two evils. And no, the truth does not always set a man free and God might just be out of miracles on the day that you go to trial. If the legal system was perfect, we would not be seeing inmates set free because they were convicted of crimes that they did not do. :notworthy: :alien: :notworthy:

[Ace]

Charged with five misdemeanors. Four are dropped completely. (Pretty strong message there about the strength of the charges) Deal is the kid pleads to one misdemeanor without any jailtime (check in and check out). His other option is to prove his innocence. Only problem ....that requires a full legal defense he has no means to pay for and requires him to walk away from his football career since he cannot go anywhere near the campus until the charges are completely disposed of and as the time passes waiting for trial, he becomes ineligible because he can't go to class. What does a kid do?

 

Man, I'm really surprised by some of the law enforcement guys on here advocating that he just step back and do nothing to prevent the girl (who had already cut the screen with a knife to try to get at the girl inside the apartment) from taking the keys out of his car and going into the apartment without his permission and confront the other girl. The guys sound awfully preachy while boldly stating that a man should never put his hands on a woman, but shouldn't he try to stop a violent attack if he realizes that it about to occur? Seems to me there may be more fault in doing nothing and letting the attack occur. I guess they take the position that he should call the cops and step back and watch how much damage is done before they arrive.

[LoneStardom5]

Charged with five misdemeanors. Four are dropped completely. (Pretty strong message there about the strength of the charges) Deal is the kid pleads to one misdemeanor without any jailtime (check in and check out). His other option is to prove his innocence. Only problem ....that requires a full legal defense he has no means to pay for and requires him to walk away from his football career since he cannot go anywhere near the campus until the charges are completely disposed of and as the time passes waiting for trial, he becomes ineligible because he can't go to class. What does a kid do?

 

Man, I'm really surprised by some of the law enforcement guys on here advocating that he just step back and do nothing to prevent the girl (who had already cut the screen with a knife to try to get at the girl inside the apartment) take the keys out of his car and go into the apartment without his permission and confront the other girl. The guys sound awfully preachy while boldly stating that a man should never put his hands on a woman, but shouldn't he try to stop a violent attack if he realizes that it about to occur? Seems to me there may be more fault in doing nothing and letting the attack occur. I guess they take the position that he should call the cops and step back and watch how much damage is done before they arrive.

 

 

amen ace, amen!

[TheRedBaron]

Anyone in law enforcement should know that this is simple. Just remember, this happened in Oregon, where the woman is always the victim first.

 

In Texas, this would be burglary, or possibly criminal attempt at burglary. In fact, burglary of a habitation is a first degree felony due to her intent to harm his guest with a deadly weapon. Since she was in the act of burglary, i.e. James had not given her consent to enter the habitation, and she cut the screen open with a knife, then he had the right to remove her from the property. All of the other stuff that occurred would be part of the case, but the girlfriend would still be the actor, and it would have still been a charge of burglary. Again, it could be Criminal Attempt at Burglary, if she didn't quite enter the residence or stick the knife through the doorway, which would then be a second degree felony.

 

In removing the girl from his property, did James go above and beyond the amount of force needed? According to his right to protect his property and his guest, he did not.

 

However, this is all based on what I've heard and read through the news. This is not based on statements from the actor/s or victim/s.

 

Oregon's penal code, and their application of domestic violence laws in this case may be worlds apart from Texas law.

[LoneStardom5]

Anyone in law enforcement should know that this is simple. Just remember, this happened in Oregon, where the woman is always the victim first.

 

In Texas, this would be burglary, or possibly criminal attempt at burglary. In fact, burglary of a habitation is a first degree felony due to her intent to harm his guest with a deadly weapon. Since she was in the act of burglary, i.e. James had not given her consent to enter the habitation, and she cut the screen open with a knife, then he had the right to remove her from the property. All of the other stuff that occurred would be part of the case, but the girlfriend would still be the actor, and it would have still been a charge of burglary. Again, it could be Criminal Attempt at Burglary, if she didn't quite enter the residence or stick the knife through the doorway, which would then be a second degree felony.

 

In removing the girl from his property, did James go above and beyond the amount of force needed? According to his right to protect his property and his guest, he did not.

 

However, this is all based on what I've heard and read through the news. This is not based on statements from the actor/s or victim/s.

 

Oregon's penal code, and their application of domestic violence laws in this case may be worlds apart from Texas law.

 

 

agree! was she givin time/sentance??? she not the one with the weapon??? law enforcement people???

[CARDshark]

Anyone in law enforcement should know that this is simple. Just remember, this happened in Oregon, where the woman is always the victim first.

 

In Texas, this would be burglary, or possibly criminal attempt at burglary. In fact, burglary of a habitation is a first degree felony due to her intent to harm his guest with a deadly weapon. Since she was in the act of burglary, i.e. James had not given her consent to enter the habitation, and she cut the screen open with a knife, then he had the right to remove her from the property. All of the other stuff that occurred would be part of the case, but the girlfriend would still be the actor, and it would have still been a charge of burglary. Again, it could be Criminal Attempt at Burglary, if she didn't quite enter the residence or stick the knife through the doorway, which would then be a second degree felony.

 

In removing the girl from his property, did James go above and beyond the amount of force needed? According to his right to protect his property and his guest, he did not.

 

However, this is all based on what I've heard and read through the news. This is not based on statements from the actor/s or victim/s.

 

Oregon's penal code, and their application of domestic violence laws in this case may be worlds apart from Texas law.

 

 

like you said...this happened in oregon!!..we need to let it go...