Getting rid of 12th grade

[bulldogbacker]

http://dallasisdblog.dallasnews.com/archiv...endent-lin.html

 

This link is to an article with some discussion about getting rid of 12th grade. There are alot of good comments from people about all of the testing and the costs of that. A few people mentioned adding more Early childhood classes...but to me that would increase costs. I do not know what the answers will be but we CAN be sure of 1 thing....the state legislators WILL get their raises each year and education/teachers will always suffer. By the looks of it, TAKS could be cut and the state could save $80 million on testing alone with their contract with Pearson testing company.

 

This is just a rant and more things to add to the educational system fire!

[parentofredheads]

I truly don't understand the deal with TAKS, SAT and ACT tests...unless it's where the state uses it to see how a certain school is doing, etc., and then based on tax funding. Course if it's how a certain school's doing, heck fire, just send in their six week/eight week test grades... or is it simply a way to say, you'll teach this and only this, and here's a test to see if you're doing what we've told you to do.

 

I've also never understood with certain colleges that you have to have a certain SAT or ACT score to get in. Who cares... They either pass or they don't. If a student wants to go to college, let 'em go to whichever college they want to go to...they've paid their tuition...course that scenario is only good for those who actually PAY their tuition and not get grants, etc...If I want to send my son to A&M, shouldn't matter his test scores, as long as I write the check for the tuition.

[OldSchool]

Dont get me started. Eliminating 12th grade probally would do lots of kids good!! Lots are ready and are being held back by the TAKS testing as we mold everyone into the same shape. Wouldnt work-- Those who had to stay their 12th year would whinethat they were being discriminated against because we were trying to help them get some more seasoning. so we cookie cut all kids.

[camuchs]

When did the 12th grade start? [i haven't read the link yet - so it may have that info] When my mother's oldest sister graduated they only went to grade 12. When New London school exploded they had grades 1 - 11.

[h-town12]

I truly don't understand the deal with TAKS, SAT and ACT tests...unless it's where the state uses it to see how a certain school is doing, etc., and then based on tax funding. Course if it's how a certain school's doing, heck fire, just send in their six week/eight week test grades... or is it simply a way to say, you'll teach this and only this, and here's a test to see if you're doing what we've told you to do.

 

I've also never understood with certain colleges that you have to have a certain SAT or ACT score to get in. Who cares... They either pass or they don't. If a student wants to go to college, let 'em go to whichever college they want to go to...they've paid their tuition...course that scenario is only good for those who actually PAY their tuition and not get grants, etc...If I want to send my son to A&M, shouldn't matter his test scores, as long as I write the check for the tuition.

 

 

That's kind of like saying you should sit wherever you want to at a Cowboys game even though you bought the cheapest tickets.

 

 

[OldSchool]

Kids do not care about school, and teachers do not get paid enough

[reddmutt1898]

My Father graduated in 1942. At that time the 11th grade was the last grade in high school. I am not sure when the 12th was added.

[coltsboy]

I think the whole problem with school is standardized testing. Teachers are too pressured to get their kids to pass that the whole learning aspect is thrown out the window. I can say from experience that TAKS does not help you in college. IMO, its just a memorization test.

[camuchs]

This is what I meant to type. I think my aunt graduated in the late 40's - early 50's. Correction.

When did the 12th grade start? [i haven't read the link yet - so it may have that info] When my mother's oldest sister graduated they only went to grade 11. When New London school exploded they had grades 1 - 11.

 

I just noticed that I had mistyped that - I can't believe I didn't catch that until now. :blush:

[parentofredheads]

That's kind of like saying you should sit wherever you want to at a Cowboys game even though you bought the cheapest tickets.

Noooo, last time I looked, if you pay to go to a game, you buy a seat in a designated area. Those designated areas cost X and X. Going to Cowboys game only requires money in the pocketbook... want a good seat, shell out the dollars; wants a "sky" seat, then buy a cheap seat. Not the same with school. Any child ought to have the right to go to any college they like, so long as they pay the tuition.

 

Just because a standardized test rates them low, doesn't mean they couldn't pass their classes.

[DaveTV1]

I'd get rid of the 12th grade. I blew off my senior year in high school, because I already had the credits that I needed to graduate early. I learned very little during that year, but I had a blast. The only aspect I would have missed by not having it is the social aspect of prom, Senior Skip day, the last high school football games, bon fires, graduation, etc. .

 

I'm sure some kids need it, but I would say many don't.

[h-town12]

Noooo, last time I looked, if you pay to go to a game, you buy a seat in a designated area. Those designated areas cost X and X. Going to Cowboys game only requires money in the pocketbook... want a good seat, shell out the dollars; wants a "sky" seat, then buy a cheap seat. Not the same with school. Any child ought to have the right to go to any college they like, so long as they pay the tuition.

 

Just because a standardized test rates them low, doesn't mean they couldn't pass their classes.

 

 

So we would have no more prestigious institutions anymore. Anyone who wanted to could go to Harvard and it would be the same as going to TJC. You're pretty much saying the rich get to do what they want. Making good grades in high school and making good grades on the SAT and ACT show how hard you've worked to learn as much as possible, which shows the colleges how much you want to attend them.

[h-town12]

Also, don't kids in high school have to have four years of all the basics now (math, science, and english)? I think this is a good thing to better prepare those that are wanting to continue their educations.

[parentofredheads]

So we would have no more prestigious institutions anymore. Anyone who wanted to could go to Harvard and it would be the same as going to TJC. You're pretty much saying the rich get to do what they want. Making good grades in high school and making good grades on the SAT and ACT show how hard you've worked to learn as much as possible, which shows the colleges how much you want to attend them.

"Prestigious"...prestigious because you scored high on your SAT and ACT... what does scoring high on the SAT and ACT have anything to do with having common sense or to persevere. Just because you make A's and B's and maybe a C every once in a while doesn't make you a nincumpoop. How many kids that are top of their class, score high on SAT and ACT's go to those "prestigious" schools, with all those scholarships, won't go to class, party, don't take things seriously, use up all those scholarships and then don't even finish up their first year?

 

Doesn't have anything to do with being rich. What it has to do with, is every student should be able to go to any college they can afford to go to. Just because you score above average on SAT and ACT shouldn't limit to where a student goes to school. If they fail, they fail, but it shouldn't be based on a SAT and ACT score.

[parentofredheads]

Also, don't kids in high school have to have four years of all the basics now (math, science, and english)? I think this is a good thing to better prepare those that are wanting to continue their educations.

I do, however, agree with you on this, because of personal experience. My senior year, we didn't have to take english or math (think it was math, too)... when I got to college, I didn't have a clue what they were talking about! Now, whether the courses the seniors are taking their senior years are any different than the classes they take as freshman... I don't know. Seems very similar, though.

[camuchs]

In 1941 Texas added the 12th grade. Students starting 1st grade in 1941 were the first ones required to complete 12 years of education. The ones prior to that were grandfathered in to the 11 year format. So up until around 1952-53 students went to school for 11 years.

[parentofredheads]

Can a teacher get on here and let us know whether these kids are having to take senior math, english, etc. or are they doing it earlier in their HS years to not have to?

[68Hornet]

Instead of eliminating the 12th grade they should be adding another year of school. We're well behind the Chinese and others now in education. If we're to remain the No. 1 power in the world we must be the smartest. Wake up people.

[Lhornfan]

Can a teacher get on here and let us know whether these kids are having to take senior math, english, etc. or are they doing it earlier in their HS years to not have to?

Texas now has a 4 x 4 plan that requires four years of each of the four core subjects: English, math, science and history. The TAKS test is coming to an end as TEA goes to End-of-Course exams. In fact, whatever rating a school or district earns this year from their TAKS scores will stick with them for the next two years (this is when TAKS ends). TEA also added a new wrinkle to school and district ratings regarding TAKS scores this year. In order to be recognized, a school must have minimum 15% commended on all test in all sub-populations. This was just recently announced and came as a huge surprise to school districts.

[DaveTV1]

Can a teacher get on here and let us know whether these kids are having to take senior math, english, etc. or are they doing it earlier in their HS years to not have to?

 

I think that was eliminated in 1986, if I recall. I was able to take early classes up until my junior year, then they dropped them. I know that they added the 4 years of English to the juniors graduation requirements as well. We only had to have up to English III. I think they did the same thing with Math and Science.

[USNDocOfMarines]

TAKS tests should be elimininated. Teachers are under so much pressure to cover all thats listed on the TAKS requirements that alot of stuff just gets breezed through. When I was in school, everything had to be taught straight from the TAKS book and it was on a timeline. If there were certain things that we stuggled with it was too bad, we had to keep going, too much other things to cover. If it wasn't on the TAKS, they didn't care about it.

[camuchs]

There are 3 program paths to graduation; minimum, regular and distinguished.

 

Minimum:

English 4 credits. Eng. I, II and III required - 4th credit can be Eng IV, R/T Writing, C/I Writing, Practical Writing Skills, Literary Genres, CTE, Journalism, AP EL comp, AP Eng lit and comp. Math Credits: 3 Math credits Science: 2 credits [iPC and Biology] Social Studies: US history since reconstruction = 1cr. Us Gov = ½ credit. World Geography = 1 cr. World Hist = 1 cr.

 

Regular:

English: 4 credits. Eng I, II, III, IV. Math: 4 credits. Science: 4 credits. Social Studies: 3½ credits.

 

Distinguished:

English: 4 credits. Eng I, II, III, IV. Math: 4 credits. Science: 4 credits. Social Studies: 3½ credits.

 

All 3 require. ½ credit economics; 1 PE credit; Speech ½ credit

Minimum Program requires 22 credits to graduate. Regular and Distinguished programs require 26 credits to graduate.

Minimum has no foreign language credit requirement; Regular requires 2 cr. of same language; Distinguished requires 3 cr. of same language

 

[Lhornfan]

1/2 credit of Economics required for all three levels of graduation. This is why the new graduation plan is called 4x4; Economics is taught with 1/2 credit of US Government and usually by the same teacher.

 

As for the Minimum Graduation Plan, many schools only use this plan as needed to graduate a student that has fallen too far behind. I believe parents wanting their child to follow the Minimum GP must sign a document stating the district has shown them the advantages of following the Recommended GP or higher.

[parentofredheads]

So is it better the plan they've come up with now or is it even worse than TAKS?

[sharkb8er]

What it has to do with, is every student should be able to go to any college they can afford to go to. Just because you score above average on SAT and ACT shouldn't limit to where a student goes to school. If they fail, they fail, but it shouldn't be based on a SAT and ACT score.

 

 

If you were a business owner looking to hire a new employee, would you use the same principle? "I know you didn't have the best grades, or maybe you don't have the best work ethic, but,,,,,,,,,I bet you can still do this job."

 

Applying to a college is the same thing. They want the best crop of students that will positively reflect on their school or have the best chance of succeeding.