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Rangers send mixed messages on Young

FOX Sports Ken Rosenthal, Tracy Ringolsby and Jon Paul Morosi

Updated Feb 5, 2011 12:58 PM ET A little more than a week ago, Texas Rangers president Nolan Ryan said that Michael Young would be the team’s designated hitter on Opening Day.

 

Such pronouncements are subject to change.

 

 

 

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HOT STOVE

Follow every offseason move. Read MLB Buzz Blog. The Rangers again are discussing a trade of Young to the Rockies – and according to one source, the talks have reached an advanced stage, and a deal could be in place as soon as Monday.

 

While the Rangers are not talking to any other club about Young, other sources paint a less optimistic picture of the discussions, saying the Rockies are confused by the Rangers’ “mixed messages.”

 

The Rockies, those sources say, would like Young to be their second baseman, but still are not convinced that the Rangers want to move him.

 

The Rangers, though, might be reaching a point of no return with Young, who publicly has said he does not want to be traded, but privately has told the club he is unhappy with his reduced role, sources say.

 

At issue in the discussions: How much money the Rangers would include in the deal and the quality of the player or players they would receive in return.

 

Earlier this winter, the Rockies offered infielder Eric Young Jr. for Young; the Rangers nixed the idea, expressing concerns about a stress fracture that Young Jr. suffered in his leg last season. The Rockies’ latest proposal, sources say, includes infielder Jose Lopez.

 

The Rangers, if they paid a large portion of the remaining $48 million on Young’s contract, almost certainly would want better players for Young, who is a leader in their clubhouse and popular with their fans.

 

Young, 34, ended last season as the Rangers’ third baseman. He agreed to become a part-time DH and super-utility man after the team signed free-agent third baseman Adrian Beltre. But the Rangers then traded for Mike Napoli, who plays catcher, first base and DH, creating more uncertainty about Young’s playing time.

 

The Rangers believe they can still find enough at-bats for Young at various positions. Rangers manager Ron Washington recently called Young the straw that stirs the team’s drink. But there is no guarantee that Young would adapt successfully to a super-utility role.

 

 

 

<h2 class="sIFR-replaced" style=""> Rockies at a glance</h2> 27.png Looking for the latest on the Rockies? Get the inside slant, stats, scores, schedules and more scoops right here. Young is set to earn $16 million in each of the next three seasons. He has a limited no-trade clause, but the Rockies are among the teams that can acquire him without his permission. In May, he will gain full no-trade protection as a player with 10 years of service, five with the same team.

 

Lopez will earn $3.6 million next season, but his contract is not guaranteed. If the Rangers acquired him and released him in spring training, they would owe him only $600,000. But if he were the only player in the deal, they would have virtually nothing to show for Young.

 

The Rockies, even if they receive significant cash from Texas, probably would need to do more than simply move Lopez. They also might need to part with a higher-priced player — perhaps right-hander Aaron Cook, who will earn $9.25 million.

 

The Rangers and Rockies first discussed Young at the winter meetings in December. Since then, the Rockies have signed reliever Matt Lindstrom to a two-year, $6.6 million contract and outfielder Carlos Gonzalez to a seven-year, $80 million contract. Gonzalez’s deal included a $3 million signing bonus.

 

 

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The Rangers, though, might be reaching a point of no return with Young, who publicly has said he does not want to be traded, but privately has told the club he is unhappy with his reduced role, sources say.

 

I've been saying exactly that. No way Young likes what is happeneing, we're simply just getting his "public appeasement" statement.

 

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If they mess him around again, i will root against them every game. They have showed zero loyalty to him after all he has done.

 

 

how have they not showed loyalty? They pay him a bunch of money and keep him in the line up...At some point the team has to try to improve and sometimes that is making tough decisions

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Lets see. He is the leader on field and in the clubhouse. He has done everything they have asked of him. He still produces. Fan favorite. Making him a part time player does not make them better. He is proven!

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Lets see. He is the leader on field and in the clubhouse. He has done everything they have asked of him. He still produces. Fan favorite. Making him a part time player does not make them better. He is proven!

This is tough because I am a diehard Ranger fan as well as a big Michael Young fan. But I have to remember that baseball is a business. When Hicks offered the 5 year, $80 million extension to Young in 2007, Michael was a lifetime .300 hitter and 2nd in a couple of HUGE categories:

 

2nd to Ichiro in total hits the previous four years

2nd to Bonds in average with runners in scoring position

 

Since then, Young has slowly gone downhill in most batting categories, and we know he is at the low end of the totem pole when it comes to defensive 3rd basemen.

 

Ranger fans got a taste of the World Series this last year, and for them to continue to build, Young does not really fit as a starter. Sure he can give the other guys a break here and there at every position in the IF, but do we really need for Kinsler or Andrus to have less ABs? Trading Young will free some payroll money to be spent in the heat of a playoff race. Texas may be able to pick up another pitcher during the season or what if Hamilton or Cruz gets injured - we need the cash to trade/pick-up another player. Now if Young can make the move to the outfield and he is willing to do it, then that might be the answer. The bottom line is sometimes you've got to let some of the big names go if they don't fit in the long term plan.

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Wow... Michael Young "does not really fit as a starter" or "fit in the long term plan." I'm just wondering if Michael Young does not fit into either one of these two categories, then just who does on the Rangers? What more can you want from the guy?

 

Sad to say, but as long as the money part of the deal with Colorado can be worked out, Mikey's gone. But I can't blame him for wanting to be traded and remaining an everyday position player. It goes beyond the money; it's about a man's pride. This is a guy who has been the picture of a loyal team player for the last 10 years for the Rangers, universally respected around MLB. But loyalty is a two-way street.

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Young is a better player than Beltre and if not then hes not much of an upgrade. Beltre plays good for a contract, Young plays good so his team has a chance to win. He wants out and is pretty much demanding a trade at this time. The Rangers are trying but cant find any takers from what I read on ESPN.

Sometimes you just need a couple of pieces to add to a machine, for it to run smoother. It seems like the Rangers are trying to do a little too much.

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Well, well. I posted after the World Series that Michael Young was a liability at third with the lowest fielding percentage of his career and it was probably time to go and got blasted saying I didn't know anything about baseball. Also, said the Rangers would not re-sign Vlad. You have to keep in mind that ML baseball is first and foremost a business. The Rangers have been very loyal to Michael Young and he has been a great player for the Rangers but that time is over. I can definitely understand why he would want to be traded and I think that would be best for both parties. Let's move on and get ready for the upcoming year.

 

Go Rangers!!

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It seems ironic to me that the Rangers have made a business decision to supplant the Captain with a guy who is basically just a businessman - Beltre. That's how he plays the game. Anyone can quote any sabermetric stats or any others however they want; the fact remains that Beltre is only a mercenary-type businessman, and he is replacing a guy who is/was, as Ron Washington recently put it, "the straw that stirs the drink in Texas."

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It seems ironic to me that the Rangers have made a business decision to supplant the Captain with a guy who is basically just a businessman - Beltre. That's how he plays the game. Anyone can quote any sabermetric stats or any others however they want; the fact remains that Beltre is only a mercenary-type businessman, and he is replacing a guy who is/was, as Ron Washington recently put it, "the straw that stirs the drink in Texas."

 

 

Can you prove Beltre is only a mercenary type player? By all accounts he has been loved by teammates in every clubhouse he has been

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Can you prove Beltre is only a mercenary type player? By all accounts he has been loved by teammates in every clubhouse he has been

 

By using the term "mercenary," I don't mean it being a reflection on his demeanor; it is a reflection on his production as a ballplayer. It is only a fact that the guy's contract year seasons are far, far bigger than his non-contract year seasons. Just coincidence?

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Wow... Michael Young "does not really fit as a starter" or "fit in the long term plan." I'm just wondering if Michael Young does not fit into either one of these two categories, then just who does on the Rangers? What more can you want from the guy?

 

Sad to say, but as long as the money part of the deal with Colorado can be worked out, Mikey's gone. But I can't blame him for wanting to be traded and remaining an everyday position player. It goes beyond the money; it's about a man's pride. This is a guy who has been the picture of a loyal team player for the last 10 years for the Rangers, universally respected around MLB. But loyalty is a two-way street.

You know I love ya Ratface, but you're thinking with your heart and not your head. That's not a bad trait to have by the way. It's hard to imagine a Ranger team without Michael Young, but seriously where do you start him? His defensive skills are below average for a 3rd baseman whereas Beltre is one of the best defensive 3rd basemen in the entire league. He can not cover the ground that Andrus covers at SS. Do we want to platoon him at 2nd wih Kinsler? Kinsler is being paid just over $4 million compared to Young's $16 million. Then there is 1st base where Young has the best chance of starting. This is the place he would play for me most of the time. However there are two guys on the bench that could put up some good numbers in Moreland and Napoli. Can Young play in the OF? I think he could start there with Hammy and Cruz.

 

What it boils down to is Young is making too much money not to be an everyday starter. He has poured his heart and soul into the Rangers, but we have to remember that professional sports is a money making business. I hate putting the word business with baseball, but that is how it goes. Young still has some good years ahead of him, but I'm afraid it is not with the Rangers. You realize he won't be the first player that put his heart and soul into a team only to end up somewhere else toward the end of their career. My favorite player growing up was Rod Carew. I collect all things with Carew as a Minnesota Twin and nothing with Carew as a California Angel. There are literally hundreds of other top line players that have done the same.

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You know I love ya Ratface, but you're thinking with your heart and not your head. That's not a bad trait to have by the way. It's hard to imagine a Ranger team without Michael Young, but seriously where do you start him? His defensive skills are below average for a 3rd baseman whereas Beltre is one of the best defensive 3rd basemen in the entire league. He can not cover the ground that Andrus covers at SS. Do we want to platoon him at 2nd wih Kinsler? Kinsler is being paid just over $4 million compared to Young's $16 million. Then there is 1st base where Young has the best chance of starting. This is the place he would play for me most of the time. However there are two guys on the bench that could put up some good numbers in Moreland and Napoli. Can Young play in the OF? I think he could start there with Hammy and Cruz.

 

What it boils down to is Young is making too much money not to be an everyday starter. He has poured his heart and soul into the Rangers, but we have to remember that professional sports is a money making business. I hate putting the word business with baseball, but that is how it goes. Young still has some good years ahead of him, but I'm afraid it is not with the Rangers. You realize he won't be the first player that put his heart and soul into a team only to end up somewhere else toward the end of their career. My favorite player growing up was Rod Carew. I collect all things with Carew as a Minnesota Twin and nothing with Carew as a California Angel. There are literally hundreds of other top line players that have done the same.

You are totally right. That doesn't mean Rat, or me for that matter, have to like it. I'm with them on this. I said from the beginning that Young was only saying he would accept the move to DH to try to appease teh fans. I knew it wasn't true then and last night it was finally proven by Young's own statements.

 

Yes, it is a business....and this business decision has hurt the Rangers. My wife told me last night when teh article broke that she will not be going to any Ranger games. With 3 people in my family who usually goes to 15-20 games a season, that's not even a dent to the Rangers. I know for a fact though, that we're not the only ones. Will it be enough for the Rangers to feel it? Probably not.....but a cancer grows and this will spread towards Beltre with the disgruntled fans. They just spent a crazy amount of money for a decent glove and a poor bat and now because of that and now this, have already started to make him a target for contempt. A business? Yes. Not good buesiness, IMO.

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You are totally right. That doesn't mean Rat, or me for that matter, have to like it. I'm with them on this. I said from the beginning that Young was only saying he would accept the move to DH to try to appease teh fans. I knew it wasn't true then and last night it was finally proven by Young's own statements.

 

Yes, it is a business....and this business decision has hurt the Rangers. My wife told me last night when teh article broke that she will not be going to any Ranger games. With 3 people in my family who usually goes to 15-20 games a season, that's not even a dent to the Rangers. I know for a fact though, that we're not the only ones. Will it be enough for the Rangers to feel it? Probably not.....but a cancer grows and this will spread towards Beltre with the disgruntled fans. They just spent a crazy amount of money for a decent glove and a poor bat and now because of that and now this, have already started to make him a target for contempt. A business? Yes. Not good buesiness, IMO.

 

Why is it not good?...is the team supposed to make decisions on hey the fans love a guy so we must keep him even though he is being paid WELL ABOVE market value for what he can do?

 

And Beltre is not a "decent" glove, he is one of the top 3 in defense..and his bat is not "poor" it is solid...basically he is the opposite of Young who is a good bat, but terrible glove..and in baseball, I will take a solid bat who is great with the glove over the alternative.

 

The really sad thing is if Young would accept his role I think he would flourish

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Why is it not good?...is the team supposed to make decisions on hey the fans love a guy so we must keep him even though he is being paid WELL ABOVE market value for what he can do?

 

And Beltre is not a "decent" glove, he is one of the top 3 in defense..and his bat is not "poor" it is solid...basically he is the opposite of Young who is a good bat, but terrible glove..and in baseball, I will take a solid bat who is great with the glove over the alternative.

 

The really sad thing is if Young would accept his role I think he would flourish

Beltre had 2 good seasons. 2 out of 13, I think. That is not "solid". Solid implies consistancy. Does he have 2 straight year of even average offensive numbers? And being top three defensively in one position during one era is commendable, but definitely not worth the multi-tens-of-millions being thrown at him. That kind of money deserves hall-of-fame type production. Beltre's not anywhere near close to that.

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Beltre had 2 good seasons. 2 out of 13, I think. That is not "solid". Solid implies consistancy. Does he have 2 straight year of even average offensive numbers? And being top three defensively in one position during one era is commendable, but definitely not worth the multi-tens-of-millions being thrown at him. That kind of money deserves hall-of-fame type production. Beltre's not anywhere near close to that.

 

 

I agree about the money..BUT that is the market value at the moment, would you rather Texas not do anything? This is a new era for the Rangers and that means paying market value( funny thing is Young has been paid WELL ABOVE market value)

 

and I disagree that he only had 2 good seasons at the plate...no he is not a .300 hitter..he is a feast/famine type of hitter, but again I will take that with his play at 3B because Texas has others who can carry the offense. if he just hits his average of .275 25 HR 89 Hrs along with his glove work IMO that is an upgrade at 3B

 

again this is Young wanting a trade because he is worried about his next contract, this is not Texas trying to move him

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1I agree about the money..BUT that is the market value at the moment, would you rather Texas not do anything? This is a new era for the Rangers and that means paying market value( funny thing is Young has been paid WELL ABOVE market value)

 

2and I disagree that he only had 2 good seasons at the plate...no he is not a .300 hitter..he is a feast/famine type of hitter, but again I will take that with his play at 3B because Texas has others who can carry the offense. if he just hits his average of .275 25 HR 89 Hrs along with his glove work IMO that is an upgrade at 3B

 

3again this is Young wanting a trade because he is worried about his next contract, this is not Texas trying to move him

1 - If he is getting the market value (which I don't believe) then it is only that high because of stupid signings like this. No way he is worth that much money according to his production. Daniels was sold a bill of goods that Beltre more than likely can't live up to. He has only done it twice in over a decade (big number seasons).

 

2 - So now just having good enough defensive skills is enough? That's a turn-around in your thinking. Also, if he hits .275 / 25 / 89 then he will be playing above his skill level. We're far more likely to get numbers equalling his numbers in Seattle.

 

3 - This is because Texas ALREADY moved him then signed two other players in an attempt to give him fewer opportunities to play. They bullied him because they felt he was loyal enough to just do their bidding. He called their bluff now they're stuck holding rotten fruit.

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1 - If he is getting the market value (which I don't believe) then it is only that high because of stupid signings like this. No way he is worth that much money according to his production. Daniels was sold a bill of goods that Beltre more than likely can't live up to. He has only done it twice in over a decade (big number seasons).

 

2 - So now just having good enough defensive skills is enough? That's a turn-around in your thinking. Also, if he hits .275 / 25 / 89 then he will be playing above his skill level. We're far more likely to get numbers equalling his numbers in Seattle.

 

3 - This is because Texas ALREADY moved him then signed two other players in an attempt to give him fewer opportunities to play. They bullied him because they felt he was loyal enough to just do their bidding. He called their bluff now they're stuck holding rotten fruit.

 

How is it turn around in my thinking? If your going to try to bring up Chris Davis there is a HUGE HUGE HUGE difference in some one batting someone batting .248 in a career with his highest ever being .285 and someone batting batting .275 in his career with highs of .321 and .334

 

How did Texas bully him? He was moved to improve the defense AND keep his bat in the line up for at least 400 PAs, and THEY ASKED HIM BEFORE MAKING THE MOVE!!!..again Young has said himself, he does not like the move because he is worried about his NEXT contract..if any other player besided Young said that everyone would be ripping him for being more worried about money than the team.

 

 

 

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How is it turn around in my thinking? If your going to try to bring up Chris Davis there is a HUGE HUGE HUGE difference in some one batting someone batting .248 in a career with his highest ever being .285 and someone batting batting .275 in his career with highs of .321 and .334

 

How did Texas bully him? He was moved to improve the defense AND keep his bat in the line up for at least 400 PAs, and THEY ASKED HIM BEFORE MAKING THE MOVE!!!..again Young has said himself, he does not like the move because he is worried about his NEXT contract..if any other player besided Young said that everyone would be ripping him for being more worried about money than the team.

Texas asked him to play DH/Utility. He said yes, although I knew it was begrudgingly. Then they signed Napoli to play DH/Utility. If you were Young, what would you think?

 

Davis has yet to have a full season. Beltre has had 13, yet he continues to have .240-.250 seasons. His first year was far worse than Davis'. Regardless, this isn't about Davis. We're talking about a guy who's being paid tens of millions of dollars because of two seasons, one of which was in half a stadium that he took much advantage of. His 300 foot doubles and 320 foot homeruns to left field will now be fly ball outs. If he hits .320 or .330 in this ballpark, I'll personally come wash your feet for you...lol

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By using the term "mercenary," I don't mean it being a reflection on his demeanor; it is a reflection on his production as a ballplayer. It is only a fact that the guy's contract year seasons are far, far bigger than his non-contract year seasons. Just coincidence?

 

 

You are correct about Beltre's two most productive seasons offensviely. However, you are overlooking his offensive numbers all of the other years. They are pretty dang good. The thought that "he only produces in contract years" is a fallacy.

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I agree about the money..BUT that is the market value at the moment, would you rather Texas not do anything? This is a new era for the Rangers and that means paying market value( funny thing is Young has been paid WELL ABOVE market value)

 

and I disagree that he only had 2 good seasons at the plate...no he is not a .300 hitter..he is a feast/famine type of hitter, but again I will take that with his play at 3B because Texas has others who can carry the offense. if he just hits his average of .275 25 HR 89 Hrs along with his glove work IMO that is an upgrade at 3B

 

again this is Young wanting a trade because he is worried about his next contract, this is not Texas trying to move him

 

Save your breath dude. We had this discussion six weeks ago and the facts about Beltre's career offensive production mean nothing to this guy. He just believes what he heard someone else say.

 

I'm no Rangers fan, but I will be monitoring Beltre closely this season and will take great pride in reminding this guy regularly about his opinion of Beltre.

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Texas asked him to play DH/Utility. He said yes, although I knew it was begrudgingly. Then they signed Napoli to play DH/Utility. If you were Young, what would you think?

 

Davis has yet to have a full season. Beltre has had 13, yet he continues to have .240-.250 seasons. His first year was far worse than Davis'. Regardless, this isn't about Davis. We're talking about a guy who's being paid tens of millions of dollars because of two seasons, one of which was in half a stadium that he took much advantage of. His 300 foot doubles and 320 foot homeruns to left field will now be fly ball outs. If he hits .320 or .330 in this ballpark, I'll personally come wash your feet for you...lol

 

 

no actually they signed Napoli to play some DH, some 1B and some catching..two of the three positions Young has not played..this was a move to ensure Texas was set at 1B with two players( with one a prven 1B) if Moreland was not able to play full time..plus it actually IMO showed Texas was wanting to do what they said they would..play Young at DH, but also a bunch in the field to give players like Kinsler, Andrus and even Beltre a rest..if they wanted Young to just be a DH they dont sign someone else to play DH..now when Young is playing 3 days of the week in the field they still have a DH who has a proven track record.

 

Funny you bring up stadiums when Texas is a hitters park..so your basically saying Beltre was better in a hitters park..which again he is now playing in again...in fact his supposedly "down" years was in what might be the biggest pitchers park in the MLB

 

Again..If this was another player besides Young the fans would be griping because he said HE WAS WORRIED MORE ABOUT HIS NEXT CONTRACT

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