TRAYVON MARTIN THREAD

[RETIREDFAN1]

When you are found not guilty, then you are declared innocent! This is where the phrase comes in to play “Innocent until proven guilty”.

 

Not Guilty is a legal term meaning you were not found guilty of the charges brought against you....it does not mean you are innocent...it means that the charges against you could not be proven....

[JTFAN99]

Not Guilty is a legal term meaning you were not found guilty of the charges brought against you....it does not mean you are innocent...it means that the charges against you could not be proven....

 

 

Not guilty means that you are Innocent IN THE COURT OF LAW. But thats just in the court of law. Technically, you could still be guilty of the crime. But you are INNOCENT LEGALLY.

 

Like if Zimmerman is found innocent, he is still guilty of killing Trayvon. That has been established. He is the one that shot him. But he would be legally exonerated of facing punishment for the incident.

 

Also, you are correct too Colmes. You may be guilty of a crime, they just couldn't legally prove it.

[RETIREDFAN1]

Not guilty means that you are Innocent IN THE COURT OF LAW. But thats just in the court of law. Technically, you could still be guilty of the crime. But you are INNOCENT LEGALLY.

 

Like if Zimmerman is found innocent, he is still guilty of killing Trayvon. That has been established. He is the one that shot him. But he would be legally exonerated of facing punishment for the incident.

 

Also, you are correct too Colmes. You may be guilty of a crime, they just couldn't legally prove it.

 

Tomato/Tomahto....lol....

[RETIREDFAN1]

Well that is why I said “DECLARED” innocent. Right! Right!

 

point taken....:)

[DaveTV1]

This is the point in a nut shell, but why is so hard for some to see? It baffles me to hear those that for whatever reason think this an acceptable incident.

I haven't heard many people say that this tragedy was acceptable. I for one do not support Zimmerman or Martin in this case, because 1) I haven't seen any video. 2) I've been told conflicting reports by the media including doctored evidence. I think I could be an unbiased juror on this case, but I may have seen and read too many different reports on this to be accepted. I'm trying to be logical on this. I know what I have heard via audio. I know what I have read via police reports. I thought from the start that Zimmerman should have been arrested, and went to trial. Can I find him innocent or guilty at this time ? I don't know. We still haven't heard a recording of Trayvon's girlfriends phone, and I've "heard" that this is in police custody. Did George Zimmerman have a broken nose/bloody nose or gashes on the back of his head ? Why didn't the reporters ask the police officer or the Sanford PD spokesperson ? It does seem that this case was attempted to be tried by the media, and I don't like that aspect of it. I understand Trayvon's parents going to the media, because Zimmerman wasn't arrested in the first place, when in my opinion he should have been. It seemed odd that even a responding police officer couldn't make that judgement call. Instead Zimmerman was treated on the scene by paramedics, then taken to the police department for questioning and released. I'll still probably follow this case, but I'm only going to spend about 10 minutes each day reading the reports, not watching 200 hours of testimony. I want just the facts.

[RETIREDFAN1]

In order to convict him of 2nd Degree Murder, they must show beyond a reasonable doubt that Zimmerman did not feel threatened at the time.....they won't ever be able to do that....they should have gone for manslaughter....

[parentofredheads]

lol...you give people too much credit....nobody pays that much attention anymore....I bet about 60% of the people living right there wouldn't know martin or zimmerman from Moses.....seating a jury will be a piece of cake....

No, I know the system. They'll know...

[parentofredheads]

But ask yourself this. You are walking home UNARMED in a neighborhood that you are not a resident of. (remember, he was visiting his dad). And someone you didn't know was following you. Would you run up and attack the person, or would your first instinct be to walk or run away. 99.9% of sane people in this world would walk or run away. What UNARMED person in their right mind would just turn around and go attack a stranger following them.

 

That makes no sense whatsoever.

 

Maybe you've forgotten when a young man is 17 or 18 years old, who believe they're "untouchable", much less someone who has already been in trouble before...you're assuming Martin knew Zimmerman had a gun.

[JTFAN99]

Maybe you've forgotten when a young man is 17 or 18 years old, who believe they're "untouchable", much less someone who has already been in trouble before...you're assuming Martin knew Zimmerman had a gun.

 

NO. I never said Trayvon knew Zimmerman had a gun. And that is my exact argument. You would not run up an attack someone that you don't know is armed or unarmed. That would be stupid. NO person in their right mind would do that. Especially someone strange that is following you. Your first instinct would be to run or fight them off if they approached you.

 

I don't know if Zimmerman is guilty or not. I just thought it seemed weird that he wasn't arrested. That is all the family wanted.

 

And Trayvon never got in trouble for any violent crimes before. But Zimmerman has. Domestic violence and he was arrested for assaulting a police officer. HMMM.

http://rollingout.com/culture/george-zimmerman-son-of-a-retired-judge-has-3-closed-arrests/

[osup116]

Why am I not surprised you believed its self defense. Im sure you feel this way because "Liberals" support Trayvon Martin.

 

But ask yourself this. You are walking home UNARMED in a neighborhood that you are not a resident of. (remember, he was visiting his dad). And someone you didn't know was following you. Would you run up and attack the person, or would your first instinct be to walk or run away. 99.9% of sane people in this world would walk or run away. What UNARMED person in their right mind would just turn around and go attack a stranger following them.

Your right but his girlfriend has already made a statement that she told Trayvon to run and he said no he was not running from him. He did attack Zimmerman.

That makes no sense what so ever. We already have a 911 tape of Zimmerman admitting to following him. Zimmerman wrongly accused Trayvon of being up to know good. Its so obvious that he instigated the entire thing. If he hadn't rushed to judgment about Trayvon, and just went about his way, none of this would have ever happen. Now at the same time, I think Zimmerman was trying to do a good thing, by patroling the neighborhood. But he was wrong. He messed up. He rushed to judgement about Trayvon. Although I agree with you it is going to be hard to prove this in court. He was a neighborhood watch captain, there is a gun law that allows him to carry, and he was registered.

 

It seems like manslaughter. BUT if Trayvon is the one screaming in those 911 tapes, then Zimmerman may be in big trouble. Besides, the prosecutor is a Republican. It appears, that most REPUBLICANS are giving Zimmerman the benefit of the doubt. If she is wrong, she will lose her next election. So why would she take that huge risk. And she could have sent this to a grand jury, to let them decide, if it was political pressure. I really believe she must feel that she got a good case against Zimmerman. does not matter is prosecutor is a dem or rep. Most are highly competitive and a case like this gives her a chance reconition. She will go for the throat if she has the chance.

 

By the way, Trayvon didn't know Zimmerman, so He had every right to STAND HIS GROUND against Zimmerman as well. If a stranger approach your child, you would tell them to run or fight. So Trayvon can use Stand your Ground defense as well. i agree but you are contrdicting your statment earlier that it made no sense for him to attack Zimmerman

 

Here is what I personally think what happened. Zimmerman was overzellous in his neighborhood watch duties. There had been multiple roberies in the comunity and as a neighborhood watch captain he wanted them to stop. What he observed was not the twelve year old kid they keep showing on T.V. , but a 6ft 2 223 lb man that he did not reconize. If you remember on the 911 calll they asked what race he was. Zimmerman was not sure if he was hispanic or black. ( these were the tapes that NBC altered) The 911 operator did in fact tell Zimmerman to stay put. He should have but as a neighborhood watch captain he felt it was his duty to follow. Plus with all the robberies he did not have a lot of faith in the police to protect him and his neighbors so he followed him.

 

On the other side of it - Trayvon was in a neighborhood that he was unfamiliar with. He notices a heavy weight guy following him. Trayvon has never been in real bad trouble but he has enough street sense to know when something is up. He is on the phone with his girlfriend and tells her his fear. His girlfriend fearing for his safety tells him to get out of there, but Trayvon it not sure where to run too. As fear rises in him, his fight or flight response kicks in. As Zimmerman turns the corner of the alley way, Trayvon attacks. This attack is mot out of malice but out of fear for his life.

 

Zimmerman is caught off guard with the attack and with the weight of trayvon falls to the ground. Trayvon then begins to slam Zimmermans head to the concrete, doing everything he can to not let his stalker get the better of him. In his mind he is fighting for his life.

 

Zimmerman is in the same boat. All of his suspicions have came true woth the attack. In his mind he is being mugged and now is fighting for his life. He pulls his pistol as a last resort and fires.

 

Here is where it is important to remember that there were two witnesses. Both gave statements that Trayvon attack Zimmerman. The problem with that is neither saw what happened leading up to that attack. When the police arrive their statements line up with Zimmermans about the attack. The only person that could say other wise is laying on the ground dead. The police let Zimmerman go.

 

This may not be what happened but this is what is going to be painted in court. It will be the prosecutors responsibility to prove different. Personally I do not think she will be able to do it. One thing is for certain - this was not a hate crime. It was a stupidity crime from both individuals

[JTFAN99]

Here is what I personally think what happened. Zimmerman was overzellous in his neighborhood watch duties. There had been multiple roberies in the comunity and as a neighborhood watch captain he wanted them to stop. What he observed was not the twelve year old kid they keep showing on T.V. , but a 6ft 2 223 lb man that he did not reconize. If you remember on the 911 calll they asked what race he was. Zimmerman was not sure if he was hispanic or black. ( these were the tapes that NBC altered) The 911 operator did in fact tell Zimmerman to stay put. He should have but as a neighborhood watch captain he felt it was his duty to follow. Plus with all the robberies he did not have a lot of faith in the police to protect him and his neighbors so he followed him.

 

On the other side of it - Trayvon was in a neighborhood that he was unfamiliar with. He notices a heavy weight guy following him. Trayvon has never been in real bad trouble but he has enough street sense to know when something is up. He is on the phone with his girlfriend and tells her his fear. His girlfriend fearing for his safety tells him to get out of there, but Trayvon it not sure where to run too. As fear rises in him, his fight or flight response kicks in. As Zimmerman turns the corner of the alley way, Trayvon attacks. This attack is mot out of malice but out of fear for his life.

 

Zimmerman is caught off guard with the attack and with the weight of trayvon falls to the ground. Trayvon then begins to slam Zimmermans head to the concrete, doing everything he can to not let his stalker get the better of him. In his mind he is fighting for his life.

 

Zimmerman is in the same boat. All of his suspicions have came true woth the attack. In his mind he is being mugged and now is fighting for his life. He pulls his pistol as a last resort and fires.

 

Here is where it is important to remember that there were two witnesses. Both gave statements that Trayvon attack Zimmerman. The problem with that is neither saw what happened leading up to that attack. When the police arrive their statements line up with Zimmermans about the attack. The only person that could say other wise is laying on the ground dead. The police let Zimmerman go.

 

This may not be what happened but this is what is going to be painted in court. It will be the prosecutors responsibility to prove different. Personally I do not think she will be able to do it. One thing is for certain - this was not a hate crime. It was a stupidity crime from both individuals

 

again, you quote what his girlfriend said, but you didn't quote her entire statement. What she said was Trayvon told her someone was following him. She told him to run. HE SAID NO, IM NOT GOING TO RUN, BUT I AM GOING TO WALK FAST. Then she says, that Trayvon ask someone (Zimmerman), Why are you following me. Then she said, Zimmerman says, WHAT ARE YOU DOING HERE? Then she said she heard a scuffle.

 

Now based on this statement, Trayvon was trying to get away. Why would Trayvon just walk up an attack Zimmerman. It makes more sense that Zimmerman would approach him. Now if a stranger that has been following you approaches you, You can do two things. Run or fight. Trayvon probably chose to fight.

 

But this still does not let Zimmerman off the hook. He was clearly the aggressor. He had no authority to approach Trayvon and ask him anything. Trayvon was minding his own business. And he already admitted that he was following Trayvon. Remember George Zimmerman has a history of Assault. Trayvon doesn't. Zimmerman even attacked a Policeman. So I don't believe he didn't start the fight. But if he was minding his own business in the first place, none of this would have happen.

 

Also, his family says he was beat within inches of death. But he didn't go to the hospital, and 45 min later,at the police station, there is no blood on him, and he is walking around find.

 

By the way, Trayvon was 6'2 150 lbs. NOT 220 pounds.

[osup116]

again, you quote what his girlfriend said, but you didn't quote her entire statement. What she said was Trayvon told her someone was following him. She told him to run. HE SAID NO, IM NOT GOING TO RUN, BUT I AM GOING TO WALK FAST. Then she says, that Trayvon ask someone (Zimmerman), Why are you following me. Then she said, Zimmerman says, WHAT ARE YOU DOING HERE? Then she said she heard a scuffle.

 

Now based on this statement, Trayvon was trying to get away. Why would Trayvon just walk up an attack Zimmerman. It makes more sense that Zimmerman would approach him. Now if a stranger that has been following you approaches you, You can do two things. Run or fight. Trayvon probably chose to fight.

 

But this still does not let Zimmerman off the hook. He was clearly the aggressor. He had no authority to approach Trayvon and ask him anything. Trayvon was minding his own business. And he already admitted that he was following Trayvon. Remember George Zimmerman has a history of Assault. Trayvon doesn't. Zimmerman even attacked a Policeman. So I don't believe he didn't start the fight. But if he was minding his own business in the first place, none of this would have happen.

 

Also, his family says he was beat within inches of death. But he didn't go to the hospital, and 45 min later,at the police station, there is no blood on him, and he is walking around find. He did have a cut in his scalp. Was cleaned up by paramedics.

 

By the way, Trayvon was 6'2 150 lbs. NOT 220 pounds. Artiticle I read was 223. It goes to show the lack of reporting.

 

I am not letting Zimmerman off the hook. A man has died. He will have to answer for it it one way or another. I am just saying he did it without malice. Both were scared of what might happen. I don't think they will be able to get more than manslaughter. The media did a bad job reporting on this case because they wanted to make it a hate crime.

 

I feel sorry for his parent. It has got to be killing them.

 

i feel sorry for him and his parents. This has got to be tearing them apart.

[JTFAN99]

I am not letting Zimmerman off the hook. A man has died. He will have to answer for it it one way or another. I am just saying he did it without malice. Both were scared of what might happen. I don't think they will be able to get more than manslaughter. The media did a bad job reporting on this case because they wanted to make it a hate crime.

 

I feel sorry for his parent. It has got to be killing them.

 

i feel sorry for him and his parents. This has got to be tearing them apart.

 

You can look at Trayvon Martin Twitter and Facebook page, and you can clearly see that he isn't 200 pounds.

 

And I don't feel sorry for Zimmerman at all. He killed and unarmed 17 yr old boy, that was minding his own business. He wasn't committing a crime. He was just walking home. I could understand if he was peaking through people windows or something, but he wasn't.

 

I don't know if he had malice or not, but his past record suggest he clearly has and anger issue. Anyone crazy enough to attack a cop is out of control. But point, is that police work should be left up to the police. He was clearly trying to be a cop. It was reported that Zimmerman has called the police over 40 times in the last few yrs. Wow, isn't that a little over the top.

 

One question I have, is that his brother says Zimmerman was headed to Target when he saw Trayvon. So why did he have a gun on his body. Do you strap a gun on, when you go to the store. Seems a little odd. My guess he was charged with 2nd degree murder, because when he saw Trayvon, he went and grabbed his gun, then called the police. And that makes sense, because if you are going to follow someone you think is up to no good, you probably want to be armed. If this is what he did, then that borders on 2nd degree murder, because it shows some sort of intent.

 

One thing I do agree with you about, is that I wouldn't be surprised if he is convicted of manslaughter. Its common for prosecutors to charge higher than what they can prove. This is to get a plea out of the deal. But who knows, she may have enough evidence for 2nd degree.

[KirtFalcon]

I seriously doubt Zimmerman will be convicted of anything. Most of the evidence points to self defense and the stand your ground law bolsters his case. Following someone is not a crime last time I checked. The witnesses and his injuries also back up his story. There is no evidence proving which one initiated the altercation.

[goldandwhite]

 

 

So why did he have a gun on his body. Do you strap a gun on, when you go to the store. Seems a little odd.

Zimmerman had a concealed handgun license. Someone obtains that license for the sole purpose of legally arming themselves when going out in public. If someone tried to attack Zimmerman on his way to Target, what good would his gun do him back in the glove box of his vehicle? I would find it odd if Zimmerman had a CHL and didn't have a gun on his body.

[JTFAN99]

I seriously doubt Zimmerman will be convicted of anything. Most of the evidence points to self defense and the stand your ground law bolsters his case. Following someone is not a crime last time I checked. The witnesses and his injuries also back up his story. There is no evidence proving which one initiated the altercation.

 

are you serious, he has no injuries to suggest he was about to die. Someone with injuries that serious would have went to the hospital. He didn't. And he had NO BLOOD on his clothes.

 

I hope you are not a cop.

[JTFAN99]

Zimmerman had a concealed handgun license. Someone obtains that license for the sole purpose of legally arming themselves when going out in public. If someone tried to attack Zimmerman on his way to Target, what good would his gun do him back in the glove box of his vehicle? I would find it odd if Zimmerman had a CHL and didn't have a gun on his body.

 

I didn't say he didn't have a license. I said its weird for someone to strap up just to go to Target. I could see it being in the car, but straping up to go in the store seems a little extreme. If you feel that threaten to go to Target, maybe you should stay in doors.

 

I know many people with guns. Including cops, and don't strap up to go to the store.

[JTFAN99]

Personally if I had a 9MM on me there would no need for me to feel threaten. And if I did feel threaten I would not be following a stranger around. Now on the other hand if I was Trayvon and someone was following me I would feel threaten. And that would give me a reason to get him off me. So if the stand the ground law came into play Trayvon had the right to break his nose and beat his head on the ground. Maybe if he had killed Zimmerman we would not be having this discussion. But I promise you Trayvon would have been arrested. And all these people on here defending Zimmerman's stance would be the exact same ones calling for them to throw the book at Trayvon.

 

 

 

Agreed

[goldandwhite]

I didn't say he didn't have a license. I said its weird for someone to strap up just to go to Target. I could see it being in the car, but straping up to go in the store seems a little extreme. If you feel that threaten to go to Target, maybe you should stay in doors.

 

I know many people with guns. Including cops, and don't strap up to go to the store.

When it comes to going to Target to shop, I do stay indoors (jk) Suzanne Gratia-Hupp thought it was extreme to take her gun into the Luby's restaurant in Killeen in 1991, but she watched her parents (and 22 others) be murdered while her pistol was outside in the glove box of her car.

[JTFAN99]

When it comes to going to Target to shop, I do stay indoors (jk) Suzanne Gratia-Hupp thought it was extreme to take her gun into the Luby's restaurant in Killeen in 1991, but she watched her parents (and 22 others) be murdered while her pistol was outside in the glove box of her car.

 

 

good point.but if she started shooting, it could have caused more deaths, including her own.

 

New York City has very strict gun laws, and crime rates have dropped in a big way.

 

but you make a very good argument.

 

Again, if Zimmerman never bothered labeled Trayvon in followed him in the first place, none of this would have happen.

[RETIREDFAN1]

Personally if I had a 9MM on me there would no need for me to feel threaten. And if I did feel threaten I would not be following a stranger around. Now on the other hand if I was Trayvon and someone was following me I would feel threaten. And that would give me a reason to get him off me. So if the stand the ground law came into play Trayvon had the right to break his nose and beat his head on the ground. Maybe if he had killed Zimmerman we would not be having this discussion. But I promise you Trayvon would have been arrested. And all these people on here defending Zimmerman’s stance would be the exact same ones calling for them to throw the book at Trayvon.

 

That is all speculation, but we don't know the facts of the case...all we know is what the "media" has allowed us to hear.....the jury will hear ALL the facts of the case and reach their verdict......

[RETIREDFAN1]

are you serious, he has no injuries to suggest he was about to die. Someone with injuries that serious would have went to the hospital. He didn't. And he had NO BLOOD on his clothes.

 

I hope you are not a cop.

 

Injuries are irrelevant...to PROVE 2nd Degree Murder beyond a reasonable doubt, the prosecution must PROVE that Zimmerman did not feel threatened...they should have gone for manslaughter......that would be much easier to prove.....

[RETIREDFAN1]

 

 

New York City has very strict gun laws, and crime rates have dropped in a big way.

 

 

 

I'd LOVE to see you show evidence to back THAT statement up.....

[goldandwhite]

 

 

New York City has very strict gun laws, and crime rates have dropped in a big way.

 

 

 

Again, if Zimmerman never bothered labeled Trayvon in followed him in the first place, none of this would have happen.

Washington, DC also has very strict gun laws, but their crime rates are still among the highest in the nation.

http://www.neighborhoodscout.com/dc/washington/crime/

 

I agree with you that the situation could have been avoided if Zimmerman wouldn't have followed Trayvon Martin. He showed poor judgment in not avoiding a confrontation in that situation.

[KirtFalcon]

are you serious, he has no injuries to suggest he was about to die. Someone with injuries that serious would have went to the hospital. He didn't. And he had NO BLOOD on his clothes.

 

I hope you are not a cop.

 

I think someone slugging you in the face knocking you to the ground and then on top of you beating your head against the pavement causing lacerations to the back of your head with a witness watching is pretty clear evidence of self defense. I doubt under those circumstances anyone is going to judge him guilty of manslaughter much less murder. If Trayvon had survived, He probably should have been charged with assault.