New report on Penn State

[h-town12]

http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/8159195/report-says-penn-state-senior-officials-disregarded-children-welfare

 

 

 

Everyone involved, including Paterno, are POS. Also, that school is about to lose a lottttt of money.

[sawemoff]

http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/8159195/report-says-penn-state-senior-officials-disregarded-children-welfare

 

 

 

Everyone involved, including Paterno, are POS. Also, that school is about to lose a lottttt of money.

They should lose all state funding and have the entire athletic deptartment suspended and basically hit the reset button.

[WETSU]

They should lose all state funding and have the entire athletic deptartment suspended and basically hit the reset button.

I think that's too extreme. Your talking about punishing kids for the mistakes of adults. Everyone involved in a cover up needs to be fired and prosecuted. Death penalty does nothing but hurt the current players and future players who want to play at penn st. It's not like the situation where players where knowing breaking NCAA rules or state laws. The kids, especially those who play sports other than football, should not be held accountable for the actions of a few adults.

[h-town12]

They for sure need to remove Paterno's statue on campus. Not sure what they are going to do with the library he paid for.

[sawemoff]

I think that's too extreme. Your talking about punishing kids for the mistakes of adults. Everyone involved in a cover up needs to be fired and prosecuted. Death penalty does nothing but hurt the current players and future players who want to play at penn st. It's not like the situation where players where knowing breaking NCAA rules or state laws. The kids, especially those who play sports other than football, should not be held accountable for the actions of a few adults.

A few adults? We will never know the magnitude of the situation. I don't think anything is too extreme when sexual abuse of children is a factor.

 

Perhaps the NCAA should just halt scholarships for the football program for the next 5 years. Honor those that are there, but don't allow anymore.

[WETSU]

A few adults? We will never know the magnitude of the situation. I don't think anything is too extreme when sexual abuse of children is a factor.

 

Perhaps the NCAA should just halt scholarships for the football program for the next 5 years. Honor those that are there, but don't allow anymore.

Again, how is fair for future players who want to play there to not get scholarships because of something former coaches did?

 

I agree that something major needs to happen, but anything that involves the team itself is just punishing players and future players for the mistakes of the adults in charge. Punish the adults in charge that were involved to the most extreme measures possible, but leave the players out of it. Hire a new completely new coaching staff with no ties to penn st, hire new administration and whoever else needs to be let go in order to make sure this is handled the right way.

[benchwarmer]

 

 

I was impressed by the fact that Penn State sanctioned the report and the report was exacly what Penn State did not want to hear. The investigation pulled no punches. How refreshing to get facts instead of bullpoop.

 

I would vote for Louis Freeh for president today !

[Valhalla]

http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/8160271/joe-paterno-legacy-penn-state-aftermath-freeh-report

[THSfanatic]

But Paterno is still defended by MANY. Many say this was only a small portion of his life. True. One moment can ruin an entire life. This was organized, systematic deceit for over a decade. Indefensible.

[BudaSooner]

But Paterno is still defended by MANY. Many say this was only a small portion of his life. True. One moment can ruin an entire life. This was organized, systematic deceit for over a decade. Indefensible.

 

indefensible, yes, absolutely. Understandable? Yes, also. Self-preservation is a powerful motivator, as Dan Wetzel says in this column: (excerpt below)

 

In hindsight, the smart move would have been to have Sandusky arrested. Viewed from today, Curley, Paterno, et. al. would have been lauded for making the correct decision.

 

At the time, however, the story would've been about a recently retired defensive coordinator molesting kids in JoePa's locker room.

 

Paterno was 74 and coming off a 5-7 season. He didn't have much of a team for the foreseeable future, either. Rumblings were growing that it was time for him to retire, that the game had passed him by, that at his age he couldn't handle the responsibilities of a major college football program.

 

An act of child molestation in the locker room would have only fueled that. When word would have eventually leaked out that in 1998 Sandusky had been investigated for the same charge yet still maintained all-hour access to the facilities, it may have too much for Paterno to survive, let alone explain.

 

In the precise moment, each of the men must have feared being fired. Even Joe Paterno.

Perhaps that wasn't the case. We may never know and it certainly isn't an excuse for allowing Sandusky to continue. It may explain it, however. Self-preservation is a powerful motivator.

 

http://sports.yahoo....erup-grows.html

 

In no way am I defending Joe Pa or the other administrators complicit in this whole mess, but it bears saying that no one knows 100% how they would react to a situation unless they have been at some time in an exactly identical situation.

In other words, walked a mile in his (the other guy's) shoes.

I am certain in my own mind that I would have acted differently than did Paterno - - but no one KNOWS.

 

Paterno will be judged by One greater than men. That is certain. But Spanier, Curley and Shultz are still among the living, and will (and absolutely SHOULD) spend years behind bars. All three of them.

 

Listening to a radio interview by Lavarr Arrington, a Penn State linebacker under Paterno and an NFL all-Pro, Arrington said this:

 

 

While Arrington admitted that he didn't have a lot of answers about the way he now feels about Paterno, Sandusky and the entire ordeal, he did know what to do to move Penn State forward.

 

"I think the best thing is anybody who had any type of knowledge about it and it's connectable to them, they should be gone immediately," Arrington said. "I think after today, and I'll look at the Freeh report again, and again, and probably again after that. I just think that any way, any how, something or someone is related to it, it has to be purged from the institution itself.

"And then they have to do a lot of work to rebuild a tarnished reputation based upon what took place and the lack of action and the failure as an institution to protect children."

 

Basically, a clean sweep of the football program's coaching staff.

[sackem]

I think that's too extreme. Your talking about punishing kids for the mistakes of adults. Everyone involved in a cover up needs to be fired and prosecuted. Death penalty does nothing but hurt the current players and future players who want to play at penn st. It's not like the situation where players where knowing breaking NCAA rules or state laws. The kids, especially those who play sports other than football, should not be held accountable for the actions of a few adults.

 

So you are saying this is not as bad as what SMU did.

They don't have state laws in Penn against pedofiles?

Coaches are exempt? but the worst part was the coverup that allowed it to continue.

 

Missing DA?

 

Play a player that failed or got cks for not working at an auto dealer the people effected the worst is not the player but the team mates and fans.

[WETSU]

So you are saying this is not as bad as what SMU did.

They don't have state laws in Penn against pedofiles?

Coaches are exempt? but the worst part was the coverup that allowed it to continue.

 

Missing DA?

 

Play a player that failed or got cks for not working at an auto dealer the people effected the worst is not the player but the team mates and fans.

The players were involved in the deal at SMU. That's why this is different. This is not an issue of Penn st doing wrong. The program itself did nothing wrong. This is not even a sports issue. I do not think a football team should be punished for something that their coaches and AD did that effects their personal life. This is nothing more than a legal issue of adults covering up for Sandusky. The football team and athletic department were not involved directly and shouldn't suffer because those guys broke a law that's not even sports related. Putting sanctions or the death penalty on penn st would be like expelling a group of 10th graders because their teacher slept with a 9th grade student. The 10th grade students are not even part of the equation so why should they suffer for the mistakes of adults?

[BudaSooner]

The players were involved in the deal at SMU. That's why this is different. This is not an issue of Penn st doing wrong. The program itself did nothing wrong. This is not even a sports issue. I do not think a football team should be punished for something that their coaches and AD did that effects their personal life. This is nothing more than a legal issue of adults covering up for Sandusky. The football team and athletic department were not involved directly and shouldn't suffer because those guys broke a law that's not even sports related. Putting sanctions or the death penalty on penn st would be like expelling a group of 10th graders because their teacher slept with a 9th grade student. The 10th grade students are not even part of the equation so why should they suffer for the mistakes of adults?

 

I think that the NCAA should probably not get involved with handing down any sanctions to the football program.

As WETSU says, that would be like throwing out the baby with the bathwater, and making innocent individuals (i.e. the players) suffer for the sins of the administrators.

 

I do think that a comprehensive review has to happen of any and all individuals who were in any way involved with, or had knowledge of Sandusky's activities (and, let's face it, that is ALL of the football staff, for sure). Nobody can tell me that the other coaches on the staff didn't know or suspect that Sandusky was, at the very least, a groper of children, and at worst an active pedophile; rumors always come to the surface in a closed environment like that.

If that means that the whole staff is fired, too bad. I feel kind of bad for them, because most of them probably had no direct knowledge, other than innuendos, but in order for Penn State to move forward. a clean sweep needs to take place.

 

But as to the NCAA dealing the death penalty? No, sanctions for the Sandusky thing should not reside in the NCAA's bailiwick. Penn State did not derive any competitive or recruiting advantage through their administrator's lack of action.

 

Spanier, Shultz and Curley will almost certainly face jail time, and others in the Penn State community will also feel the result of the coming investigations. But the NCAA should stay out of it, IMO...

[sawemoff]

Story on ESPN titled: Football Must Go

 

 

Four of the most powerful people at The Pennsylvania State University -- President Graham B. Spanier, Senior Vice President-Finance and Business Gary C. Schultz, Athletic Director Timothy M. Curley and Head Football Coach Joseph V. Paterno -- failed to protect against a child sexual predator harming children for over a decade. These men concealed Sandusky's activities from the Board of Trustees, the University community and authorities. They exhibited a striking lack of empathy for Sandusky's victims by failing to inquire as to their safety and well-being, especially by not attempting to determine the identity of the child who Sandusky assaulted in the Lasch Building in 2001. Further, they exposed this child to additional harm by alerting Sandusky, who was the only one who knew the child's identity, of what McQueary saw in the shower the night of February 9, 2001. -- Page 14 of the Freeh Report

 

They come into this world with close to nothing, with little money to make life easier, more respectable or contain more opportunity. The family unit that provides us our stability, which helps life make sense, which provides the mortar that holds it all together, is denied or devastatingly incomplete, a world of single mothers, broken fathers, not enough money, not enough education, not enough luck.

 

We call them the underclass. We call them the disadvantaged, the underprivileged. With our education, resources and good fortune, we were supposed to be the something good that happens. We were the ones who had more, who said we wanted to change the world and make a difference in the lives of the less fortunate. We were the trusted.

 

The most they have -- their children -- they send out to us. They were sent to Penn State, to Jerry Sandusky, Joe Paterno, Graham Spanier, Gary Schultz and Tim Curley, and to the world to show the goodness in us and what was possible for them with just a little opportunity, if someone, for once, showed a little bit of interest. They got to see the good life -- so visible but inaccessible on television -- in person, on the sideline at practice, at a bowl game, at a Philadelphia Eagles game, standing next to Andy Reid himself. They got to see the simple foundations: the picnics, the gifts and the attention.

 

The good life, we all know now, was simply the bait, and they were always the prey. Sandusky used the good life as the carrot to rape children. Paterno, Spanier, Curley and Schultz, four fathers, let him to do it because they cared about Sandusky, their reputations and their power more than they ever cared about these boys. We know this because we know that for the past decade and a half, there is no record that Paterno, Spanier, Curley and Schultz even asked for the name of the child they were told was being targeted by Sandusky.

 

May 3, 1998 -- Sandusky assaults Victim 6 in Lasch Building shower. -- Page 19

 

It went so far that this Penn State four could no longer keep their lies, their corrupted priorities, in order. It went so bad that even the power -- that so often does whatever it can to protect itself -- could no longer deny all that the trusted had not done and had to request outside review that produced a numbing, devastating self-criticism that makes it impossible to deny what must be done.

 

Penn State cannot be allowed to have a football team.

 

A culture of reverence for the football program that is ingrained at all levels of the campus community. -- Page 17

 

Paterno, the legendary coach that so many people instinctively protected before thinking about the welfare of the 11-year-old he knew was being sexually assaulted by Sandusky, is dead. So too is the Second Mile foundation, the place we now know Sandusky used to recruit his victims, the place whose leadership called Sandusky preying on the charity's kids a "non-issue," the place Penn State continued to do business with after knowing that Sandusky was assaulting children, the place where 75 percent of its board were Penn State alumni.

 

If the NCAA and Penn State have any decency, even a shred of integrity, remorse or belief in regaining standing, the Penn State football program, the carrot used by Sandusky to rape children, the monolith that intimidated good people from coming forward and doing the right thing and the financial jewel Paterno, Spanier, Schultz and Curley protected at all costs, should be indefinitely terminated.

 

There are times when the entire monument must be razed in order to be rebuilt if it is to have any moral value. This is one of those times. To allow Penn State to continue playing football when Southern Methodist University lost its program for something as common as a recruiting scandal is to condone the past and enable the future. It is to suggest that all the next university in trouble need do is to make the right public relations moves.

 

For Penn State to open the season Sept. 1 versus Ohio when the University of Southwest Louisiana lost its basketball program for two years over academic fraud and recruiting violations after Spanier, Schultz, Curley and Paterno responded to repeated child rape by negotiating not only an honorable discharge for Sandusky, leaving him financially intact, respected and elevated, but also for ways for Sandusky to continue to have contact with young children would show an equally striking lack of regard for the victims. A Paterno handwritten note in 1999 suggests a "Volunteer Position Director" for his trusted assistant.

 

August 1999: Sandusky is granted "emeritus" rank, which carries several privileges, including access to University recreational facilities.

December 1999: Sandusky brings Victim 4 to 1999 Alamo Bowl.

Sandusky assaults Victim 4 at team hotel.

November 2000: Sandusky assaults Victim 8 in Lasch Building shower.

Janitor observes assault by Sandusky, but does not report the assault for fear that "they'll get rid of all of us." -- Pages 21-22

 

Janitor B explained to the Special Investigative Counsel that reporting the incident "would have been like going against the President of the United States in my eyes." "I know Paterno has so much power, if he wanted to get rid of someone, I would have been gone" He explained "football runs this University." -- Page 65

 

Most of all, allowing Penn State football to survive and profit -- as if this were only about a couple of kids who cheated on an entrance exam -- says that all of the rhetoric about accountability and protecting children was just exhaust, that compared to the importance of football, the university didn't care then and doesn't care now about children being raped on its premises. It is to retain the culture of intimidation and invincibility that has brought Penn State to this place. If a massive institutional failure that allowed four young boys to be sexually molested on campus does not constitute reasonable cause to terminate the program and force true reflection, true change and true reform, nothing can legitimately deserve that penalty. The fear of Janitor B to come forward as a whistleblower in the face of power would be justified. Penn State football would indeed be invincible.

 

Despite Spanier's, Schultz's, Paterno's and Curley's knowledge of criminal investigations of Sandusky regarding child abuse as early as 1998, they failed to control Sandusky's access to the University's facilities and campuses. -- Page 103

 

The most they have -- their children -- they sent out to us. We still call them the disadvantaged because it makes us feel good, but in deciding to hand their sons and daughters off to a teacher, a coach, a troop leader or a priest, to tell them to listen to the adults, not to talk back and do what they are told, tax brackets and nice houses don't matter. They are us, and we are them. In that transaction, the decision to entrust our children to someone who may be the best swimming coach in town or may be Jerry Sandusky, we are all equals.

 

Perhaps there was nothing anyone could do to keep Sandusky from striking once, but Spanier, Schultz, Curley and, yes, Paterno had the power to prevent it from happening again. They demonstrated instead that the carrot was more important. They allowed the bait to work.

 

As with the Catholic Church and the Mormon Church, no parent can send a child into the world without wondering not only if a Sandusky is near their child but also if there are Paternos and Spaniers, Curleys and Schultzes who lack the courage and priority to protect them. The trusted failed, and everyone lost.

[WETSU]

Story on ESPN titled: Football Must Go

 

I didn't even finish reading that it is such garbage. Don't get me wrong, I am just as ticked that grown men did what they did to those kids and covering it up, but to say that football must end at penn st because of it is ridiculous. We aren't going to end a church softball team because the preacher slept with a child(happens all the time) and we aren't going to shut down a fortune 500 company because the CEO is a pedophile. I'll be highly disappointed in the NCAA if sanctions are put down on the football program. We slap every program on the wrist for players and coaches when they violate rules in recruiting or payin players. If they get a slap on the wrist for knowingly doing wrong, why should the penn st players get punished for something that isn't even related to them. They have absolutely nothing to do with this. This is a issue of a few grown men making personal judgment mistakes. This should not effect the university in any way.

[Valhalla]

I didn't even finish reading that it is such garbage. Don't get me wrong, I am just as ticked that grown men did what they did to those kids and covering it up, but to say that football must end at penn st because of it is ridiculous. We aren't going to end a church softball team because the preacher slept with a child(happens all the time) and we aren't going to shut down a fortune 500 company because the CEO is a pedophile. I'll be highly disappointed in the NCAA if sanctions are put down on the football program. We slap every program on the wrist for players and coaches when they violate rules in recruiting or payin players. If they get a slap on the wrist for knowingly doing wrong, why should the penn st players get punished for something that isn't even related to them. They have absolutely nothing to do with this. This is a issue of a few grown men making personal judgment mistakes. This should not effect the university in any way.

 

+1

[Lhornfan]

I didn't even finish reading that it is such garbage. Don't get me wrong, I am just as ticked that grown men did what they did to those kids and covering it up, but to say that football must end at penn st because of it is ridiculous. We aren't going to end a church softball team because the preacher slept with a child(happens all the time) and we aren't going to shut down a fortune 500 company because the CEO is a pedophile. I'll be highly disappointed in the NCAA if sanctions are put down on the football program. We slap every program on the wrist for players and coaches when they violate rules in recruiting or payin players. If they get a slap on the wrist for knowingly doing wrong, why should the penn st players get punished for something that isn't even related to them. They have absolutely nothing to do with this. This is a issue of a few grown men making personal judgment mistakes. This should not effect the university in any way.

Let me throw a little fuel on this fire. It has been reported that the janitors knew about the incidents but didn't report it because they were afraid they would be fired. Think about that for a minute. Joe Pa may not have been the head man on paper, but he was certainly were the buck stopped with the football program. These football players that you are talking about... yes, they are innocent, and that is why they would be granted full release to play somewhere else without the penalty of sitting out a year. It has been done many times before for things far less nasty.

 

The university covered this up, and the football program is one of the cash cows for the university. Who's going to pay the money with the lawsuits coming up? You know there will be some very large settlements in favor of Sandusky's victims... especially because it was known and covered up. I say hit the school were it hurts. High school boys that wanted to play for Penn St. will surely find another school to play for.

 

This CANNOT be swept under the rug with a few guys being fired, jailed and/or the legacy changed of a man that has already passed. Just think of the recourse from other schools. No matter what another athletic program does, they can always say, "Well at least we weren't raping boys like Penn St." Pedophiles are even looked down on in the prisons from what I've heard.

 

Trust me when I say the world and college football will go on fine without Penn St. playing for a while. There is or was a culture at Penn St. where no matter what was going on in the football program, it was over-looked. It has been documented from Jo Pa's mouth years ago that HE would take care of football players when it came to any kind of discipline... whether it be academics or with the law. If these multiple incidents with Sandusky were over-looked by so many (I've never come across a school janitor that didn't like to spread rumors), I can only imagine what else was going on in the Penn St. football program.

[topher805]

Here is Rick Reilly's take: Fooled By A Legend

[WETSU]

Let me throw a little fuel on this fire. It has been reported that the janitors knew about the incidents but didn't report it because they were afraid they would be fired. Think about that for a minute. Joe Pa may not have been the head man on paper, but he was certainly were the buck stopped with the football program. These football players that you are talking about... yes, they are innocent, and that is why they would be granted full release to play somewhere else without the penalty of sitting out a year. It has been done many times before for things far less nasty.

 

The university covered this up, and the football program is one of the cash cows for the university. Who's going to pay the money with the lawsuits coming up? You know there will be some very large settlements in favor of Sandusky's victims... especially because it was known and covered up. I say hit the school were it hurts. High school boys that wanted to play for Penn St. will surely find another school to play for.

 

This CANNOT be swept under the rug with a few guys being fired, jailed and/or the legacy changed of a man that has already passed. Just think of the recourse from other schools. No matter what another athletic program does, they can always say, "Well at least we weren't raping boys like Penn St." Pedophiles are even looked down on in the prisons from what I've heard.

 

Trust me when I say the world and college football will go on fine without Penn St. playing for a while. There is or was a culture at Penn St. where no matter what was going on in the football program, it was over-looked. It has been documented from Jo Pa's mouth years ago that HE would take care of football players when it came to any kind of discipline... whether it be academics or with the law. If these multiple incidents with Sandusky were over-looked by so many (I've never come across a school janitor that didn't like to spread rumors), I can only imagine what else was going on in the Penn St. football program.

I can definitely respect this point of view, but I still think that to put the death penalty on the football program for something non sport related is just a little harsh. Even if the entire school was filled with people trying to cover this up, you still shouldn't punish the football team for it. They are not responsible for this. If we are suspending the football team lets just suspend every single sport. The women's golf team had just as much to do with this as the football program, which is nothing. This is a non sports related issue and I do not believe sports should be punished for it.

[topher805]

I can definitely respect this point of view, but I still think that to put the death penalty on the football program for something non sport related is just a little harsh. Even if the entire school was filled with people trying to cover this up, you still shouldn't punish the football team for it. They are not responsible for this. If we are suspending the football team lets just suspend every single sport. The women's golf team had just as much to do with this as the football program, which is nothing. This is a non sports related issue and I do not believe sports should be punished for it.

I feel like it falls under Lack of Institutional Control. While I would hate to see the players punished, because you're right, they didn't do anything wrong, Penn State made the mistake of putting their football program above all. Paterno was soo obsessed with winning, he overlooked Sandusky's misdeeds to win more football games. While the players weren't part of the cover-up, the football program definitely reaped the rewards of having Sandusky on the coaching staff.

[sawemoff]

I can definitely respect this point of view, but I still think that to put the death penalty on the football program for something non sport related is just a little harsh. Even if the entire school was filled with people trying to cover this up, you still shouldn't punish the football team for it. They are not responsible for this. If we are suspending the football team lets just suspend every single sport. The women's golf team had just as much to do with this as the football program, which is nothing. This is a non sports related issue and I do not believe sports should be punished for it.

It isn't a couple people here and there though. The entire university top to bottom is to blame and it as a whole should be punished. I find it hard to believe not a single player knew about this. Let me rephrase that. It is impossible there weren't players knowledgeable about this.

 

Just so we are on the same page...USC and Reggie Bush. There were athletes qualified to go to USC that wanted to go to USC, but because of scholarships, couldn't. It wasn't the football teams fault. It wasn't coaches. It was one player, yet this trickled down to the others. Players that weren't even on campus with Reggie weren't allow to play for an NC. How is that fair?

[WETSU]

It isn't a couple people here and there though. The entire university top to bottom is to blame and it as a whole should be punished. I find it hard to believe not a single player knew about this. Let me rephrase that. It is impossible there weren't players knowledgeable about this.

 

Just so we are on the same page...USC and Reggie Bush. There were athletes qualified to go to USC that wanted to go to USC, but because of scholarships, couldn't. It wasn't the football teams fault. It wasn't coaches. It was one player, yet this trickled down to the others. Players that weren't even on campus with Reggie weren't allow to play for an NC. How is that fair?

Because that was the football team cheating to gain a advantage with recruits/players. This penn at deal does not involve players. I would be shocked if a single player knew about this prior to the first report last year. The media is always looking for cases like these... Your telling me that players knew about this and every player, faculty member, and whoever else knew about this for 10 years and nothing went public? I don't believe that for a second.

 

As for the sanctions, there is a big difference in no bowl games for 2 years and the death penalty. Especially when one is to punish a team for football related cheating and one of for a non sports related issue.

[Lhornfan]

Especially when one is to punish a team for football related cheating and one of for a non sports related issue.

It happened with football coaches' knowledge in the football locker room where people involved with the football program knew about it and did nothing simply because they were afraid it would tarnish their football program.

 

Yep... it's definitely sports(football) related.

[WETSU]

It happened with football coaches' knowledge in the football locker room where people involved with the football program knew about it and did nothing simply because they were afraid it would tarnish their football program.

 

Yep... it's definitely sports(football) related.

Agree to disagree on that one....

[THSfanatic]

I feel like it falls under Lack of Institutional Control. While I would hate to see the players punished, because you're right, they didn't do anything wrong, Penn State made the mistake of putting their football program above all. Paterno was soo obsessed with winning, he overlooked Sandusky's misdeeds to win more football games. While the players weren't part of the cover-up, the football program definitely reaped the rewards of having Sandusky on the coaching staff.

 

Will have to agree with that. Is it fair for the players ?? NO. Is it fair when a coach cheats and then leaves ?? Happens all the time. It's not fair, but the institution itself absorbs the punishment.

 

I do believe players should be able to transfer if they weren't involved in any way. I've always thought that from SMU to Ohio State.