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JBizzle

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I guess I am missing something. This issue has been settled and accepted by the taxpayers and administration of Pine Tree. Looks like a good place to let it rest. Anyone that has a problem with the way situations like this are handled should take it up with Austin. Only problem with that is you have to use your real name. Life support needs to be pulled here. No basis of Fact, just he said , she said, name calling and finger pointing. Nothing really to gain but a few hard feelings.

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If the kid had a concussion the parents would have known. The two situations are totally separate as far as I am concerned.

 

You are going on the assumption he would have told his parents what happened. Remember this was not in public view.

 

 

Penn State?

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I guess I am missing something. This issue has been settled and accepted by the taxpayers and administration of Pine Tree. Looks like a good place to let it rest. Anyone that has a problem with the way situations like this are handled should take it up with Austin. Only problem with that is you have to use your real name. Life support needs to be pulled here. No basis of Fact, just he said , she said, name calling and finger pointing. Nothing really to gain but a few hard feelings.

 

Well, David said it maybe on this thread, maybe on another, not sure... while he is reinstated, this case is far from over, although, due to the publicity it has generated, I wouldn't be surprised if we don't hear another word from PTISD administration regarding this unless there is another "paid leave" or something again.

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And I am sure that by throwing it out here on Smoaky is the best thing for everyone involved.....

 

My post wasn't meant to target Pine Tree directly. My post was to point out huge flaws in the Texas high school athletic chain of command.

 

The main issue is how do you let the Football coach, the man who's team will sustain the most injuries, be the judge, juror, hirer, firer of the athletic trainer? The Athletic trainer is the main person who will make the judgement on an injured athlete. Example, Darius Jones, one of the best athletes that has come through Marshall in the past 10+ years was dealing with an ankle injury since week 0. If it were solely my choice, I would have sat him for 2-3 games until district to let him heal and go 100%. Why? It was best for the kid, he already had his scholarship, and he would have the chance to rest and properly recover and run wild in district. The coaches felt differently, that he needed playing time. So we worked something out where most of the time, he was with me doing rehab and treatments, and then come Friday, we would tape him up in everything just short of a hard cast, and let him play 2-3 quarters until he could no longer handle the pain. Due to the struggle with my boss, and the severity of the injury not being life or career threatening, he played every week in pain, all the way up until Denison wiped their butts with our offense. This is not a good struggle to have between 2 professionals who have different agendas. So if you don't really get what I am saying with this, then I am afraid there is only so much that I am willing to repeat myself for you :)

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My post wasn't meant to target Pine Tree directly. My post was to point out huge flaws in the Texas high school athletic chain of command.

 

The main issue is how do you let the Football coach, the man who's team will sustain the most injuries, be the judge, juror, hirer, firer of the athletic trainer? The Athletic trainer is the main person who will make the judgement on an injured athlete. Example, Darius Jones, one of the best athletes that has come through Marshall in the past 10+ years was dealing with an ankle injury since week 0. If it were solely my choice, I would have sat him for 2-3 games until district to let him heal and go 100%. Why? It was best for the kid, he already had his scholarship, and he would have the chance to rest and properly recover and run wild in district. The coaches felt differently, that he needed playing time. So we worked something out where most of the time, he was with me doing rehab and treatments, and then come Friday, we would tape him up in everything just short of a hard cast, and let him play 2-3 quarters until he could no longer handle the pain. Due to the struggle with my boss, and the severity of the injury not being life or career threatening, he played every week in pain, all the way up until Denison wiped their butts with our offense. This is not a good struggle to have between 2 professionals who have different agendas. So if you don't really get what I am saying with this, then I am afraid there is only so much that I am willing to repeat myself for you :)

I totally understand what you are saying and the reason I didn't say anything about it was because I didn't have an issue with that. What I did have an issue with was where you said that this coach screwed up. I don't care what sources you have, you weren't there. Heck, you weren't even in the same state, yet you definitively say he did this. If he did, then fire his butt..... But when someone who wasn't there throws the dude under the bus with only "sources" then I think that is wrong. Especially anonymously on a sports forum. If you have proof, then share it with the admin at PT. If you are so sure he broke laws in his negligence, and have proof, call the authorities. But you didn't do that...... You did it on a sports forum.

 

I have seen many coaches, and a couple of trainers too, have their careers ruined because of unsubstantiated claims. Why because the people formed an opinion of the person, and even when exonerated the damage was done. You were in education right? Heck you should know better than to do that!!!

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Where were the parents in this situation? Did the player not show signs of a concussion at home. And yes you can hit the back of your head by slipping in hard plastic cleats on concrete.

 

Most football players will not admit that they aren't feeling good after practice or a game. And concussion does not always reveal itself to people not trained to look for signs.

 

I could easily see my son not telling me if he thought he had a concussion after playing a football game.

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I remember when my high school teammate, Billy Bob had a concussion. Coach Kilmer wouldn't take him out of the game. Billy Bob passed out and our star QB Lance Harbor tore up his knee and ended his career. Lucky for us, I had a schloarship to Brown and a cannon of an arm to boot. We won the district championship and ran the great Bud Kilmer out of town.

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Am I missing something here, or did I not read "Student Trainer". Like most of you on this thread, I know nothing about the real facts behind this incident. But I do know the difference between someone with a college degree and someone who is a "Student". Like most things in life, having the right context is the difference between understanding and MISunderstanding. I do not know what happened in that locker room. But I do know this... If I am an experienced coach who has been around a sport all of my life, and have seen and experienced sports injuries on many levels... And I see something occur and I know what happened and did not happen, and then have a "Student Trainer" who did NOT see what happened try and run over and tell me what WILL and WILL NOT happen next with my player? You can bet your sweet behind I'm going to put that "Student Trainer" in their place.

 

I'm not saying that is what happened here. But I will tell you that probably 99% of coaches have been around sports injuries and know first hand what they ARE and what they ARE NOT. All trainers are not created equal... Nor are all coaches in fairness. But there IS a difference between being INJURED and being HURT! Having a Medical Doctor's opinion on the difference between the two is one thing. Having a "Student Trainer's" is another.

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Bamaboy, how's it hangin? What's going to happen in College Station on Saturday? First of all, glad the fire got rekindled, so maybe they can simply go back and forth and may the best man win. I thought Fiddler was pretty funny actually. Rubberhammer, are you a licensed doctor, b/c I need your real name so if myself or anyone ever gets hurt we will stay far from you. It's obvious you've never worn a cleat in your life. How can a kid slip on concrete with cleats? Duke needs to be the one gotten rid of, b/c he's trolling at his finest. Mavgrad, glad you have your "sources" but no one knows the entire truth except a select few. Valid points for the most part though. By the way, I'm glad you brought up Brent Sipe, b/c he was the best trainer Marshall has ever had and did wonderful things here. Aren't you glad he's doing so well and got a great new position? Glad to know what he put in place worked while you were there. There's just something very creepy about this situation, b/c by no means have all the questions been answered. I do disagree to whoever it was who said this is simply trying to ruin an "innocent" coaches career. If he was 100 percent, he doesn't get suspended. He's back, so be it, as I respect the decisions made except for the fact I still can't fathom how a board president overules a sup ever?

So it's official, we can move you to the DA file. People in this file run on concrete with cleats on. How embarrassing is it that you're out 2 weeks with a concussion because you fell in the lockerroom. To hit your head, your feet would have to go way above your head, think about that...

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Am I missing something here, or did I not read "Student Trainer". Like most of you on this thread, I know nothing about the real facts behind this incident. But I do know the difference between someone with a college degree and someone who is a "Student". Like most things in life, having the right context is the difference between understanding and MISunderstanding. I do not know what happened in that locker room. But I do know this... If I am an experienced coach who has been around a sport all of my life, and have seen and experienced sports injuries on many levels... And I see something occur and I know what happened and did not happen, and then have a "Student Trainer" who did NOT see what happened try and run over and tell me what WILL and WILL NOT happen next with my player? You can bet your sweet behind I'm going to put that "Student Trainer" in their place.

 

I'm not saying that is what happened here. But I will tell you that probably 99% of coaches have been around sports injuries and know first hand what they ARE and what they ARE NOT. All trainers are not created equal... Nor are all coaches in fairness. But there IS a difference between being INJURED and being HURT! Having a Medical Doctor's opinion on the difference between the two is one thing. Having a "Student Trainer's" is another.

 

the first thing that was "reported" was that the coach put hands on a student manager.... then a "parent" came along and said there was more to the story and that the coach over-ruled an actual trainer on a concusion issue, which had nothing to do with the first "report"...

 

one might want to read the thread before forming an opinion

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The incident involving the student trainer was a separate issue. The incident in the locker room involved the asst. trainer and the head trainer. If I'm not mistaken the head trainer worked in the NFL. I'm don't understand why anyone would question if it is appropriate for a child to get medical attention after a head injury. Anyone who can read should know how serious a concussion can be.

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I totally understand what you are saying and the reason I didn't say anything about it was because I didn't have an issue with that. What I did have an issue with was where you said that this coach screwed up. I don't care what sources you have, you weren't there. Heck, you weren't even in the same state, yet you definitively say he did this. If he did, then fire his butt..... But when someone who wasn't there throws the dude under the bus with only "sources" then I think that is wrong. Especially anonymously on a sports forum. If you have proof, then share it with the admin at PT. If you are so sure he broke laws in his negligence, and have proof, call the authorities. But you didn't do that...... You did it on a sports forum.

 

I have seen many coaches, and a couple of trainers too, have their careers ruined because of unsubstantiated claims. Why because the people formed an opinion of the person, and even when exonerated the damage was done. You were in education right? Heck you should know better than to do that!!!

During your stay at Brownsboro did you experience any "unsubstantiated" claims result in school employees doing time in TDC? They wanted to keep their "little secrets" in Brownsboro didn't they? Didn't work did it...at least for some? Others didn't learn a lesson did they ? And look what happened to them and now what does their future hold? Isn't it time you get smart and grow up?

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and anyone who doesnt understand how one can slip in cleats on a concrete locker room floor because its wet or damp from a variety of factors including our humidity in NE TX either;

 

a)never put cleats on b)never got their jersey dirty c)doesnt need to post in a sports related thread

Seriously???? I've fell before, never on my head!!! Have you slipped in cleats and hit your freakin head???

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Seriously???? I've fell before, never on my head!!! Have you slipped in cleats and hit your freakin head???

 

 

Are YOU serious???!?!?!!! You could easily have your feet slip out from underneath you, fall back, and hit your head on the ground. How does that not make sense to you?

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the first thing that was "reported" was that the coach put hands on a student manager.... then a "parent" came along and said there was more to the story and that the coach over-ruled an actual trainer on a concusion issue, which had nothing to do with the first "report"...

 

one might want to read the thread before forming an opinion

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Seriously???? I've fell before, never on my head!!! Have you slipped in cleats and hit your freakin head???

 

Seriously???? I've fell before, never on my head!!! Have you slipped in cleats and hit your freakin head???

You know nothing or very little about closed head injuries do you? While the brain has natural protection, skull etc. this does not guarentee sharp blows by especially hard obgects cannot result in injuries. Are we even sure the young man had his helmet on...or if the fall may may or may not be the result of game impact? INVESTIGATE...don't cover u

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With the stuff going on in Pine Tree, one thing I've noticed is the school board doesn't have to tell the public anything about what happened. How can a public school not explain to the taxpayers what has taken place. Also they don't have to tell the conditions of the coach's reinstatement. I understand privacy, but these employees chose to work in public schools around KIDS! Not sure how I feel about this.

 

 

Thank you for bringing up the topic. You have made a valid point and one that needs addressing.

 

The PTISD asserts the information and the subsequent reinstatement conditions are confidential under the PIA. I'm not convinced that's right and perhaps thinking that a competent investigative journalist will make a PIA request for the information. If PTISD does not release the information after a request for release is made, PTISD will have to file a request with the Texas Attorney General for a legal opinion as to whether it's to be released or not.

 

There are time limits involved once the request for information is received; time limits to produce the requested information and if no release is made, time limits as to asking for the legal opinion.

 

Looking for that competent investigative journalist to do so. Are there any left out there?

 

 

From the KLTV 7 web....

 

After their investigation, the district decided to reinstate Fitzhenry as head coach on certain conditions, which they won't reveal.

 

"We regret that we can't explain more. I understand there are frustrations when you can't understand what's going on. However, we are legally and ethically bound to protect the rights of our employees and our students," Echols said.

 

Fitzhenry also would not comment on the investigation. "I mean, it's done. Like I said, why complicate it?"

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I have waited patiently not for a response for a full hour. I know there is a "loyal" mod patrolling...

Bamaboy,

 

Unfortunately, although it's my site, I don't live, eat and breath it, sorry. I've been working out, about to go into work, but I sent you a response in a PM, and I'll post it here as well.

 

Smoaky

 

=====

 

Apparently, either you didn't read his remarks about me, or you did and you agreed, which is fine with me.

 

If you agree, that's your opinion, and I don't expect the members of this site to agree with every or most or any of my opinions, but to call me arrogant and pompous for "being the all knowing" whatever else without specifically mentioning a story where I was wrong, was unfounded.

 

I only responded to him after he took a pot shot at me, but perhaps you don't expect me to respond at all on my own website?

 

He can call me any name in the book, I don't care, remember, I didn't suspend him, an admin did, and in fact, I contacted JTownFiddler by email and told him if he wanted to contact me by email he would be reinstated.

 

Secondly, I didn't delete or move the thread, in fact, I reinstated the thread back live to where it allowed you to continue this discussion.

 

If he wanted to call me out on a specific story, facts, evidence, go for it, but he threw out a random comment.

 

And, believe me, as I said in an earlier response, maybe he was right, there was probably a time in my life when it would have been 100% correct.

 

If it was about the reporting on the Pine Tree mess, I was 100% correct from start to finish. And, on another note, I never took a side between the allegations against Coach Fitzhenry and/or coach himself. I reported the news, facts and what would happen, and it went down exactly the way I said it would.

 

We have specific rules on this website about members calling out admins and mods, that would include me.

 

Actually, I've asked all of my admins and mods to relax a little bit, and they have, within reason.

 

So, if this doesn't explain it enough, my email address is [email protected] or [email protected].

 

If you want to send me your cell number, I'm also willing to call you to discuss further, or even JTownFiddler.

 

David Smoak

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I read the entire thread... And what has been reported in the newspaper. Which if YOU would read MY post said "Student". But my argument is that MOST coaches know a thing or two about MOST sports injuries, and MOST coaches are 100% committed to the well being of kids. If that is not the case here, then it is indeed a sad day in PT and I will leave it to the PTISD Elected Officials and Employees to make that determination, because that is their job.

 

But my point remains. As I said, not all coaches or trainers are created equal. I am not aware of who was in that locker room, or who is on the PT Training Staff, or what their qualifications are. If you ARE aware if those facts then more power to you... But what was reported MOST CERTAINLY WAS "Student". And by THAT account, my original point stands!

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Are YOU serious???!?!?!!! You could easily have your feet slip out from underneath you, fall back, and hit your head on the ground. How does that not make sense to you?

Never in my life have I seen someone slip and fall on concrete and hit their head while in a lockerroom. Now, where I could imagine this happening is if he were jacking around or running...? In that case, maybe a bump to the head would teach him not to run or jack around in the lockerroom with cleats on...

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During your stay at Brownsboro did you experience any "unsubstantiated" claims result in school employees doing time in TDC? They wanted to keep their "little secrets" in Brownsboro didn't they? Didn't work did it...at least for some? Others didn't learn a lesson did they ? And look what happened to them and now what does their future hold? Isn't it time you get smart and grow up?

First of all, they weren't unsubstantiated. As you pointed out, they were convicted. None of it was swept under the rug. The people went to jail. Just no one at Brownsboro gave an interview to the news..... MORON.

 

Here is a question for you? Since you are so smart, and you so know so much about me...... Would you have the guts to say any of this to my face? I am pretty sure you wouldn't.

 

I haven't said anything in defense of this coach or any other, all I've said is that y'all don't have proof but are still convicting the man. He, or anyone, doesn't deserves that.

Now for some reason you have decided to make this personal. I don't know you from Adam, mainly because you hide behind your screen name, yet you are dead set on outing me on this forum. My name is James Croley. I work in Conroe. Graduated from Daingerfield High School in 1986. Anything else you want to know, just ask.

 

Oh and if you are hiding behind a screen name but we know each other, feel free to let me know who you are.

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Smoaky...thanks for the semi prompt response. I apologize for missing your PM. Let me begin by applauding you for working out taking care of your body not only for you but also for your family. As a father you are an integral part of your family and I am sure that they are thankful that they have a man that takes care of his body and is living a long healthy life. Personal health is also a key component of Obamacare, as some like to refer to it as, so that insurance premiums can lower and you can be provided with affordable, practical options. But, this is nor the time or place for that discussion.

 

I would like to address 3 problems that I have with his suspension and sentence:

 

1)I am afraid that the mod that suspended Fiddler may have been a little over zealous and acted hastily. I dont think calling you arrogant, pompus, or all knowing is name calling. Those are all personality traits, granted in most situations they have negative connotations. I do agree with you that like or dislike is irrevelant and we as Americans need to be more tolerant of each other and I know that everyone can certainly "live" together on this website.

 

2)I could find no where in the rules or by laws where reinstatement was dependant on replying to your emails. I would also like to know, again (2nd request), what is expected on your end from this email. If it is an appology, a beer summit has already been suggested.

 

3)I could also not find anywhere in the rules or by laws where random comments are not allowed. Random comments are a everywhere on this message board and even I have made one or two myself.

 

I understand and appreciate that you were not the one to pull the plug on his bath tub full of wit, knowledge, and humor but I think answers (from someone and the buc stops with you) are in order.

 

I sent an email to JTownFiddler, and if his email is correct, he received it and can respond.

If his email is incorrect, give him mine if you know him.

 

And, I would enjoy and appreciate the beer summit, but I'm in Central Texas, it's football season and I get back to East Texas about once every 2-3 months, max, so that's a great idea but not an option.

 

Wish it was...

 

Smoaky

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Never in my life have I seen someone slip and fall on concrete and hit their head while in a lockerroom. Now, where I could imagine this happening is if he were jacking around or running...? In that case, maybe a bump to the head would teach him not to run or jack around in the lockerroom with cleats on...

I know nothing about the Pine Tree situation other than reading this, but I don't know how anyone could not know that a player could EASILY slip in the locker room with cleats on WITHOUT running or messing around. As a coach, I see it all the time with players WALKING in and out of the locker rooms. Slick concrete (usually stained) + plastic screw in cleats = recipe for slipping; they aren't wearing molded cleats. I'm sure walking in or out tonight I'll see someone slip. Not saying they'll slip all the way to the floor, but I could see it happening.

 

Again, nothing to do with the PT situation, but many coaches don't allow cleats inside because of this particular thing happening. I also agree whoever said that sweat, humidity, water, etc. added to it makes it worse. It was the same way when I wore screw in cleats for football too.

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