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How do you judge a QB in the NFL?

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Rings or performance?

 

Let's here the thoughts...

 

Just a thought IMO Romeo has neither that's rings or performance when it counts!!!

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Rings or performance?

 

Let's here the thoughts...

 

Just a thought IMO Romeo has neither that's rings or performance when it counts!!!

Your team gets the Rings because of everyone's performance. Not just the qb's or coaches. You have a lousy defense or any phase, you will have a harder time of ever sniffing a ring.

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Success should always be measured by results. Stats have little bearing in todays NFL, because it is passer friendly. In my opinion it comes down to leadership, intelligence with the ability to recognize defenses, poise, not being rattled, and competitiveness. I never thought Joe Montana was a great passer, but his intangibles made him one of the greatest. A great quarterback can carry a team when he has to, a mediocre one can't get the job done even with great talent around him.

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Success should always be measured by results. Stats have little bearing in todays NFL, because it is passer friendly. In my opinion it comes down to leadership, intelligence with the ability to recognize defenses, poise, not being rattled, and competitiveness. I never thought Joe Montana was a great passer, but his intangibles made him one of the greatest. A great quarterback can carry a team when he has to, a mediocre one can't get the job done even with great talent around him.

So true...Neither team in the NFC championship have 'great"QB'S IMO...

 

But I promise you their coach tells them just don't get us beat...

 

Marino had all the stats in the world and never got a ring..Then there's Romeo I don't think you could win with him on the Cowboys 90's teams...He would find a way to give it away!!

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Success should always be measured by results. Stats have little bearing in todays NFL, because it is passer friendly. In my opinion it comes down to leadership, intelligence with the ability to recognize defenses, poise, not being rattled, and competitiveness. I never thought Joe Montana was a great passer, but his intangibles made him one of the greatest. A great quarterback can carry a team when he has to, a mediocre one can't get the job done even with great talent around him.

Curious... how could Doug Williams beat John Elway in a Super Bowl? He shows none of the traits you mentioned. How could Joe Theisman or Mark Ripien win? None of the traits with them either. "Elite" Manning beating Tom Brady?... please. Not to mention the numerous no-bodies that made the Super Bowl and lost.

 

NO! Their teams were more responsible for the wins and losses. These examples are just average to poor qb's that made it there. Thanks to their teams!

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Not all!!!

How is it not?

 

How many other Hall of Famers did Montana and Bradshaw play with when compared to qbs like Marino? Football is a TEAM sport.

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How is it not?

 

How many other Hall of Famers did Montana and Bradshaw play with when compared to qbs like Marino? Football is a TEAM sport.

What are you talking about? I've seen QB'S have all the talent in the world around them and still not be able to get the ball to them!!!

 

Read the topic please..

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Curious... how could Doug Williams beat John Elway in a Super Bowl? He shows none of the traits you mentioned. How could Joe Theisman or Mark Ripien win? None of the traits with them either. "Elite" Manning beating Tom Brady?... please. Not to mention the numerous no-bodies that made the Super Bowl and lost.

 

NO! Their teams were more responsible for the wins and losses. These examples are just average to poor qb's that made it there. Thanks to their teams!

Theismann was a solid quarterback otherwise I wouldn't hate him so much. I hate him more than I do Diron Talbert. Mark Rypien had three great years for the Redskins, but he wasn't as brash as Theismann so I don't hate him as much. Were they elite quarterbacks, no. I think Doug could have had the biggest chance to be elite had he not signed with the USFL, and stayed with the Bucs but they didn't want to pay him. I watched Doug, and he was a solid quarterback. Theismann is probably the only one that would say he's elite, and David Smoak might say he was an elite quarterback.

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What are you talking about? I've seen QB'S have all the talent in the world around them and still not be able to get the ball to them!!!

 

Read the topic please..

Gotcha there. Then I know you can't be talking about Tony Romo :) since he is currently ranked #5 alltime.

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Theismann was a solid quarterback otherwise I wouldn't hate him so much. I hate him more than I do Diron Talbert. Mark Rypien had three great years for the Redskins, but he wasn't as brash as Theismann so I don't hate him as much. Were they elite quarterbacks, no. I think Doug could have had the biggest chance to be elite had he not signed with the USFL, and stayed with the Bucs but they didn't want to pay him. I watched Doug, and he was a solid quarterback. Theismann is probably the only one that would say he's elite, and David Smoak might say he was an elite quarterback.

I just give you some examples of mediocre qb's winning Super Bowls over Elite qb's and they were only mediocre qb's themselves. How do you explain the losses for the Elite qb's? So Tom Brady does not have what it takes to beat Elite Manning? Seriously how can John Elway possibly lose to Doug Williams?

 

These are perfect examples of what I am talking about Tony Romo and Dallas. It takes the overall team to win it! These other qb's are no where near the same level as their opponents and yet won. Must be something to the TEAM thing huh?

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So true...Neither team in the NFC championship have 'great"QB'S IMO...

 

But I promise you their coach tells them just don't get us beat...

 

Marino had all the stats in the world and never got a ring..Then there's Romeo I don't think you could win with him on the Cowboys 90's teams...He would find a way to give it away!!

You have a valid argument but you ruin it with the childish act of changing someones name trying to be cute when really its middle schoolish at best.

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The two biggest indicators of good quarterback play (such that they correlate the most with victory) are Yards Per Attempt (adjusted for sacks) and Passer Rating. You're measuring how well a quarterback is at doing his job, then these, along with possibly NY/A or ANY/A, gives you a base for how well a quarterback throws the football.

 

They are not the best indicator for team success - they take a backseat to Turnovers, and must go hand in hand with Defensive Passer Rating.

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You have a valid argument but you ruin it with the childish act of changing someones name trying to be cute when really its middle schoolish at best.

I'm sorry that I struck a nerve by adding a little humor to the post..I've called him that for a number of years and so do a lot of my friends around town so I guess their all childish to. I'll be sure and tell them that next time we get together..

 

Back to the topic I think it all comes down to games won and championships..I mean look at Aikman he was a very good QB but IMO he went to the HOF on what his team accomplished..

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Gotcha there. Then I know you can't be talking about Tony Romo :) since he is currently ranked #5 alltime.

LOL you did get me good one. :)

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I just give you some examples of mediocre qb's winning Super Bowls over Elite qb's and they were only mediocre qb's themselves. How do you explain the losses for the Elite qb's? So Tom Brady does not have what it takes to beat Elite Manning? Seriously how can John Elway possibly lose to Doug Williams?

 

These are perfect examples of what I am talking about Tony Romo and Dallas. It takes the overall team to win it! These other qb's are no where near the same level as their opponents and yet won. Must be something to the TEAM thing huh?

The same way he lost to Phil Simms and Joe Montana. Elways' stats were no different than Theismann, Williams, Rypien, or many others. Elway only had one year of 4000+ yards in 1993, he only had 4 seasons better than Williams 1981 season statistically. You have to remember Elway lost 3 Super Bowls in the 80's and he was much like Jim Kelly of the 90's, but Elway finally did win 2. If Kaepernick was elite, he wouldn't have just thrown that interception to lose. I can't say he won't be in after 10 years, but we'll see.

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The same way he lost to Phil Simms and Joe Montana. Elways' stats were no different than Theismann, Williams, Rypien, or many others. Elway only had one year of 4000+ yards in 1993, he only had 4 seasons better than Williams 1981 season statistically. You have to remember Elway lost 3 Super Bowls in the 80's and he was much like Jim Kelly of the 90's, but Elway finally did win 2. If Kaepernick was elite, he wouldn't have just thrown that interception to lose. I can't say he won't be in after 10 years, but we'll see.

Make no mistake... I do not think Elway is an Elite qb. Everyone else seems to and that is why he was one of my examples. Elway is the classic good qb that made after he got surrounded with a very good team. That is what my biggest argument is with the idiots that say Dallas cannot win with Romo. And he is far better than an average qb. You just made my argument easier. And you did not try to.

 

After watching the last game tonight it is obvious to me that both qb's were effected by the pressure and had issues with it.

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They can win with Romo, he is average just like the team, never going to be any better, he is what he is, a stat maker, but not the most important stat... Wins

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Make no mistake... I do not think Elway is an Elite qb. Everyone else seems to and that is why he was one of my examples. Elway is the classic good qb that made after he got surrounded with a very good team. That is what my biggest argument is with the idiots that say Dallas cannot win with Romo. And he is far better than an average qb. You just made my argument easier. And you did not try to.

 

After watching the last game tonight it is obvious to me that both qb's were effected by the pressure and had issues with it.

This is the reason that Elway is Elite, The Drive. Elway didn't have a star to go to on that team. Sammy Winder didn't even rush for 1000 yars. He spread the ball around his receiving corps of Ricky Nattiel, Vance Johnson, Mark Jackson, and Steve Sewell. He didn't have great weapons to work with, and why the Broncos went to 3 Super Bowls in the 80's.

 

You keep wanting to bring up Romo in this debate, but he's simply not that great of a quarterback. He looks good on paper, until you look at the post season, and that's the only thing that matters in the NFL. If Romo retired today, he would only be remembered for one thing. He surely wouldn't make it into the HOF without playoff victories. Danny White is remembered for the No Danny No, and the great comeback against the Falcons in 1981. Danny is underrated for what he accomplished with the Cowboys, but for some reason all you see are the regular season stats. Drew is one of the Greatest Cowboys of all time, but he was a minor player during the Danny White years, and Tony Hill only had two 1000 yard seasons.

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Make no mistake... I do not think Elway is an Elite qb. Everyone else seems to and that is why he was one of my examples. Elway is the classic good qb that made after he got surrounded with a very good team. That is what my biggest argument is with the idiots that say Dallas cannot win with Romo. And he is far better than an average qb. You just made my argument easier. And you did not try to.

 

After watching the last game tonight it is obvious to me that both qb's were effected by the pressure and had issues with it.

 

Romo couldn't carry Elway's jock strap. Compared to Romo, Elway WAS an elite QB. Elway was a winner, a team leader that did all the intangible things Romo is clueless about. Elway put the team on his shoulders and carried the team when it mattered most ... unlike Tony Turnover. That's why he's a HOF QB .... something Romo will never sniff the doorway to.

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Romo couldn't carry Elway's jock strap. Compared to Romo, Elway WAS an elite QB. Elway was a winner, a team leader that did all the intangible things Romo is clueless about. Elway put the team on his shoulders and carried the team when it mattered most ... unlike Tony Turnover. That's why he's a HOF QB .... something Romo will never sniff the doorway to.

Not sure about your fascinaton with Elway's jock strap.... but whatever! You can discuss that on another forum!

 

Back on topic, Elway was the classic Marino and Romo. Great stats but could not win the Super Bowl. He never won until his till was good all around him. Once the rushing game came around with Terrell Davis there was an opportunity to finally win. You see it's still falls back to the team around the qb. It has nothing to do with carrying the team. If so Tony Romo would be winning lots more accolades.

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It indeed has everything to do with the team. Which is why MOST of us have seen the largely hopeless forseeable future with this team that many seem to deny.

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This is the reason that Elway is Elite, The Drive. Elway didn't have a star to go to on that team. Sammy Winder didn't even rush for 1000 yars. He spread the ball around his receiving corps of Ricky Nattiel, Vance Johnson, Mark Jackson, and Steve Sewell. He didn't have great weapons to work with, and why the Broncos went to 3 Super Bowls in the 80's.

 

You keep wanting to bring up Romo in this debate, but he's simply not that great of a quarterback. He looks good on paper, until you look at the post season, and that's the only thing that matters in the NFL. If Romo retired today, he would only be remembered for one thing. He surely wouldn't make it into the HOF without playoff victories. Danny White is remembered for the No Danny No, and the great comeback against the Falcons in 1981. Danny is underrated for what he accomplished with the Cowboys, but for some reason all you see are the regular season stats. Drew is one of the Greatest Cowboys of all time, but he was a minor player during the Danny White years, and Tony Hill only had two 1000 yard seasons.

You fail to mention that Elway never won a Super Bowl till Terrell Davis was around and did I mention one of the top defenses in the league. Oh yeah... without these no Super Bowls.

 

Imagine what Dallas can do with both of these going for them. :)

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Not sure about your fascinaton with Elway's jock strap.... but whatever! You can discuss that on another forum!

 

Back on topic, Elway was the classic Marino and Romo. Great stats but could not win the Super Bowl. He never won until his till was good all around him. Once the rushing game came around with Terrell Davis there was an opportunity to finally win. You see it's still falls back to the team around the qb. It has nothing to do with carrying the team. If so Tony Romo would be winning lots more accolades.

 

You have got to be the most delusional person in the history of Smoaky.com. :lol: Always a convenient excuse for Romo's short comings.

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