Mavchamp Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 Most of the Longview playoff games I've been to have been blowout victories. But I've been to some of the implosions too. 1. Rarely has the other team had more athletes than Longview. Lufkin at SFA MIGHT have been the exception. 2. Rarely has Longview gotten out-coached. I know some think so against LT, but I respectfully disagree. 3. Rarely has Longview not rose to the occassion when they have the spolight on them on the big stage (see non district for the last 10 years). IMHO.... Longview's playoff problems have been lack of execution and monumental blunders at the worst times. The problem is not coaching. Not lack of athletes. Not the refs and DFW bias. Not the wind or the lack of onions on the concession stand hotdogs. Fumbles. Interceptions. Not making critical tackles/blocks...... Defensive/offensive breakdowns....... Those mitakes fall on the shoulders of the guys in pads. Why? Because they did it correctly the previous 12-13 weeks. SO they know how to do it right. They just didn't execute right then..... I can't fathom anyone questioning Coach King. This is the Golden Age of Lobo football. I say enjoy it. Because if and when it ends....the misery could be unbearable. JMHO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STYMIE Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 Lmbo I had a Jehovah's Witness come to my door last week. Just saying I apologize, Not talking about Junior Varsity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TobinFrost Posted February 3, 2014 Author Share Posted February 3, 2014 Coaches don't make kids execute. They teach them....they show them....they guide them. But at the end of the day..... the player is the one that has to catch the ball, make the tackle, make their blocks, hold on to the ball and not fumble it, make accurate passes and don't make interceptions.....etc.....etc....etc.... A coach can't make a player have heart. He can't make him give a damn... and most of all.... he has no control over the athletes on the other side of the line of scrimmage. So, with that being said, would you tend to agree with my friend from Daingerfield who actually said, "the kids at Longview at the end of the day don't give a damn and they're UNCOACHABLE." Because, I got FUMING hot and told him that our kids at Longview DO care and I said after Ten or more years that you can't keep blaming the kids. So, before Surratt arrived at Carthage does that mean that they also didn't give a damn as well??? And, since Carthage has ALWAYS had the talent, It MUST be safe to ASSUME that Surratt came in and changed that attitude amongst the players, which is my argument as it relates that at the end of the day THE COACHING ultimately can change that mindset. And, I believe that what Surratt has excelled at is what John King fails to do!!! Surratt, dots all of his I's and crosses all of his T's. And, when a coach loses giving his ALL then I can live with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mavchamp Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 Uncoachable kids don't accomplish what Longview has accomplished in the last decade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gametyme Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 One last thing about Carthage and Longview. King is just as good as Surratt so lets end that now. Surrat has benefitted from being one of the largest schools in his class. Now of course they still had to execute but when you look at the East Texas original 5A typically they have to play schools with twice the enrollment at some point in the playoffs. Last time Carthage played a school with twice the enrollment they got smocked by Whitehouse. It's just harder in the old 5A more so then any other divison in Texas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lobo97 Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 Most of the Longview playoff games I've been to have been blowout victories. But I've been to some of the implosions too. 1. Rarely has the other team had more athletes than Longview. Lufkin at SFA MIGHT have been the exception. 2. Rarely has Longview gotten out-coached. I know some think so against LT, but I respectfully disagree. 3. Rarely has Longview not rose to the occassion when they have the spolight on them on the big stage (see non district for the last 10 years). IMHO.... Longview's playoff problems have been lack of execution and monumental blunders at the worst times. The problem is not coaching. Not lack of athletes. Not the refs and DFW bias. Not the wind or the lack of onions on the concession stand hotdogs. Fumbles. Interceptions. Not making critical tackles/blocks...... Defensive/offensive breakdowns....... Those mitakes fall on the shoulders of the guys in pads. Why? Because they did it correctly the previous 12-13 weeks. SO they know how to do it right. They just didn't execute right then..... I can't fathom anyone questioning Coach King. This is the Golden Age of Lobo football. I say enjoy it. Because if and when it ends....the misery could be unbearable. JMHO. Agree with most everything you said. The only thing I would offer differently.... Turnovers have not become a problem in just the last game of the season. Turnovers have plagued LV for several years now. They just don't typically have the biggest impact until the last game because it's around that time LV starts running into the most stout competition. You can turn the ball over against Pine Tree and still win if you're LV. You cannot turn the ball over against teams like Westlake, LT, and others and still win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CardinalEdge Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 Longview's lack of discipline and relying on athleticism is what kills them. I have seen many times in the past that when a team challenges Longview by trying to intimidate them...ie Dallas Carter, Texas High....by coming to the center of the field and jumping around only makes Longview mad and they respond with raw emotion and usually come out on top. When a team doesn't give Longview any emotion to run on.....ie Lake Travis.... and run a system against Longview that you can't just athlete them to death then the Lobos usually fall. King is a good coach but he has been known to tighten up in big games....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTFAN99 Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 IF, this Lobo football program wants to win a STATE TITLE, we need to start by removing cupcake and creampuff programs in non-district off the schedule-period. There's no reason whatsoever that we should not be at the very LEAST attempting to schedule some juggernaut programs like Allen, Katy, Euless-Trinity or even a West Monroe. I DO NOT SEE THE EFFORT from John King to make this team or prepare them for LEGITIMATE teams that we'll face that play DISCIPLINED football for an entire four quarters. We're not getting any better scheduling Monroe Neville at all. Whats up with Lobo fans wanting John King to load the schedule with power houses. Im having this same discussion on another topic on smoaky. http://www.smoaky.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=141193 Do you know how crazy that is? You don't want your team playing Allen, Euless and Katy every week. Heck Alabama doesn't load their schedule up like that. When you make a schedule, you consider many factors. #1. is cost. #2, is good teams, #3 is winnable games. You want your team to make the best schedule budget wise, you also want to see how your team measures up against good competition. And you want to win some games and build some confidence. If you play Allen and Katy every week, you are not going to have a team come district, because everyone is going to be beat up. The first part of the schedule is just to see how you stack up. You only need to schedule ONE maybe TWO power houses. Beating 4 Katy's doesn't help you if you are beat up and you lose district, and not make the playoffs. And remember, Budgets are very important. Its much better for Longview to schedule Marshall, JT, Lee and sell out the place, then play a sell out game against Katy. Because the travel costs are much better. by the way Neville is one of the best programs in Louisiana. They beat West Monroe 33-0 at West Monroe in last yr Jamboree, and they beat the 5a state champion last yr at the Shreveport Battle of the borders. They also have 2 state championships in the last 5 yrs, and they lost in another one in the same time frame. oh yea, why do you guys only want this for football. what about other sports. Why not have the lobo basketball team play SOC, Yates, Prime Prep, and etc.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mavchamp Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 Longview's lack of discipline and relying on athleticism is what kills them. I have seen many times in the past that when a team challenges Longview by trying to intimidate them...ie Dallas Carter, Texas High....by coming to the center of the field and jumping around only makes Longview mad and they respond with raw emotion and usually come out on top. When a team doesn't give Longview any emotion to run on.....ie Lake Travis.... and run a system against Longview that you can't just athlete them to death then the Lobos usually fall. King is a good coach but he has been known to tighten up in big games....... I think that was Whitehouse that did that...... sledgehammer and all. I don't recall seeing Texas high do anythign like that. Not saying it didn't happen. But they don't have a reputation of such. And you are correct.... teams that have done that..... have usually ended up getting crushed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoboFan07 Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 Agree with most everything you said. The only thing I would offer differently.... Turnovers have not become a problem in just the last game of the season. Turnovers have plagued LV for several years now. They just don't typically have the biggest impact until the last game because it's around that time LV starts running into the most stout competition. You can turn the ball over against Pine Tree and still win if you're LV. You cannot turn the ball over against teams like Westlake, LT, and others and still win. Yep. If one thing researching this team to death has taught me, is that the same thing I see out there night in and night out with this era of Longview football...is the same things that plagued past teams. 1967 - Longview hosts Richardson - 4 turnovers 1975 - Longview against Odessa Permian - 3 turnovers 1984 - Longview hosts Bryan - 3 turnovers 1985 - Longview vs Cypress Fairbanks - Can't capitalize on 5 turnovers 1987 - Longview vs Cypress Fairbanks - 3 turnovers, 4 fumbles (2 lost) 1989 - Longview vs Huntsville - 5 turnovers 1991 - Longview vs Dallas Carter - 3 turnovers 1992 - Longview vs Spring Westfield - 2 turnovers and imploding in the 4th quarter 1993 - Longview vs Temple - 3 turnovers and imploding in the 4th quarter 1996 - Longview vs Killeen Ellison - Missed extra point 2002 - Longview vs Lufkin - Completely sleep walking throughout 1st half 2004 - Longview vs Lufkin - 5 turnovers 2007 - Longview vs Pflugerville - 3 turnovers 2010 - Longview vs Denton Guyer - can't capitalize on 5 turnovers, poor clock management. 2011 - Longview vs Spring DeKaney - can't capitalize on numerous amounts of chances 2012 - Longview vs Austin Westlake - 7 turnovers, 21 defensive points against 2013 - Longview vs A&M Consolidated - 2 turnovers, 14 defensive points against 2003, 2005, 2006 should not have been losses under any circumstances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoboFan07 Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 I think that was Whitehouse that did that...... sledgehammer and all. I don't recall seeing Texas high do anythign like that. Not saying it didn't happen. But they don't have a reputation of such. And you are correct.... teams that have done that..... have usually ended up getting crushed. Texas High did it that year. Carter did it that year. Whitehouse did it. Someone else did it as well, can't remember who. But Tigers definitely did it in 08. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoboFan07 Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 Do you know how crazy that is? You don't want your team playing Allen, Euless and Katy every week. Who is saying they want our team playing that schedule every week? We've been through that before and we know exactly how it turns out, even though we all enjoyed it. It's very simple non-district schedule Longview should take. 1) A game you should win 2) A toss up game 3) Good to decent out of state opponent 4) A game you shouldn't win It's been perfect the past couple of years...1) Marshall - game you should win. 2) Lufkin - toss up game. 3) Out of state opponent, whomever it is. 4) Allen/Coppell - game you shouldn't win. It's just been thrown for a loop now that Lee is out of the picture for now and all these other teams rejected playing us plus Marshall being in our district. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarthDawg77 Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 Well, still arguing with my friend from Daingerfield about MY alma matta, Longview High. We got to discussing the direction of Lobo football when John King decided to agree to the Monroe Neville game. In MY OPINION, I think Lobo football has become COMPLACENT. Yes, I do believe this. I believe we have gotten to a point to where we're not descending but, we're in no way, shape, form or fashion ascending either. I say this by looking at WHO we're scheduling and will that said team make us better by exposing our weaknesses and areas that we need to drastically improve on. IF, this Lobo football program wants to win a STATE TITLE, we need to start by removing cupcake and creampuff programs in non-district off the schedule-period. There's no reason whatsoever that we should not be at the very LEAST attempting to schedule some juggernaut programs like Allen, Katy, Euless-Trinity or even a West Monroe. I DO NOT SEE THE EFFORT from John King to make this team or prepare them for LEGITIMATE teams that we'll face that play DISCIPLINED football for an entire four quarters. We're not getting any better scheduling Monroe Neville at all. My only knock on John King, is that he becomes so complacent with the status quo (Well we won district) and I see it permeating throughout the team. And, the fanbase wonders why we're bowing out to teams that we're supposed to beat in the playoffs. Look, I'm a REALIST. We don't have the best athletes in the state and I understand that winning a state title is extremely difficult and if it we're that easy Pine Tree would probably have one. John King, is an pretty good coach but, I honestly believe that if he will get himself out the way and DEMAND more control, hold some SERIOUS accountability for detrimental behavior on and off the field and RAISE THE BAR for this program is when he and the Lobo Football program will win a state title. And, for those of you who read the John King Version Holy Bible, answer these questions: (1.) Where was Carthage,Texas Football Program before Scott Surratt? (2.) Does Carthage have better athletes than Longview? (3.) What do YOU HONESTLY believe is the difference between Scott Surratt and John King (Why is Surratt more Successful)? I can't speak to King's program or his philosophy, although the Lobos always seem to have good teams. Could it be philosophy? Coaching staffs? Scott Surratt is not afraid to give his Dogs a serious test when he is in a weak district, as evidenced by Carthage challenging Patrick Mahomes & Whitehouse. I'm sure he knew he was not going to come out on top, but he also knew his team NEEDED to play a strong opponent to prepare them for the post season; and they played a GREAT first half, leading 39-20 going into the 3rd qtr. Mahomes & company massacred the Dogs in the second half, but I honestly believe that game benefitted Carthage tremendously, giving them good preparation for the playoffs& the eventual State Championship. Does King do things like that, or does he see the need? Maybe others can answer that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
honkeykong Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoboFan07 Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 Does King do things like that, or does he see the need? Maybe others can answer that. As recently as three years ago we had state ranked John Tyler, state ranked Allen, state ranked Lufkin, defending state champion and state ranked Abilene all on back to back to back to back games. Plus state ranked DeSoto to close out the season.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TobinFrost Posted February 3, 2014 Author Share Posted February 3, 2014 One last thing about Carthage and Longview. King is just as good as Surratt so lets end that now. Surrat has benefitted from being one of the largest schools in his class. Now of course they still had to execute but when you look at the East Texas original 5A typically they have to play schools with twice the enrollment at some point in the playoffs. Last time Carthage played a school with twice the enrollment they got smocked by Whitehouse. It's just harder in the old 5A more so then any other divison in Texas. King is just as good as Surratt!!!!???? Man, Surratt has FIVE; I repeat (5) State Championships under his belt!!! 4 as a head coach and 1 as the OC at Texas High calling the plays. That sir is NOT luck. That is pure knowledge and having a LOVE for the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarthDawg77 Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 As recently as three years ago we had state ranked John Tyler, state ranked Allen, state ranked Lufkin, defending state champion and state ranked Abilene all on back to back to back to back games. Plus state ranked DeSoto to close out the season.... I'll take that as a "NO" as to whether King feels the need...Lol! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTFAN99 Posted February 4, 2014 Share Posted February 4, 2014 Who is saying they want our team playing that schedule every week? We've been through that before and we know exactly how it turns out, even though we all enjoyed it. It's very simple non-district schedule Longview should take. 1) A game you should win 2) A toss up game 3) Good to decent out of state opponent 4) A game you shouldn't win It's been perfect the past couple of years...1) Marshall - game you should win. 2) Lufkin - toss up game. 3) Out of state opponent, whomever it is. 4) Allen/Coppell - game you shouldn't win. It's just been thrown for a loop now that Lee is out of the picture for now and all these other teams rejected playing us plus Marshall being in our district. why do you think you should schedule a decent out of state opponent. What good does that do? You are trying to win the Texas state championship, not a national championship. There is no reason to schedule an out of state opponent EVERY yr. Once or twice a decade...Maybe.... And honestly the reason why many schools do it, is because they can't find an in- state opponent to play. Longview needs to concentrate on winning state first, rather than beating some out of state school. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TobinFrost Posted February 4, 2014 Author Share Posted February 4, 2014 As recently as three years ago we had state ranked John Tyler, state ranked Allen, state ranked Lufkin, defending state champion and state ranked Abilene all on back to back to back to back games. Plus state ranked DeSoto to close out the season.... And, we've gotten away from that type of scheduling that helped us in the playoffs in 2010. JT99 brought up some good points regarding Monroe Neville but, historically year in and year out when you're talking about powerhouse programs in Louisiana only two or three come to mind and that's West Monroe, John Curtis and Evangel*. Please, don't ask me what the aterisk is for, if you've kept up with Louisiana football at all, it's pretty much self explanatory. Acadiana,La. is another program on the hype that I would have rather seen Longview schedule. I'm not talking about some "flash in the pan" programs that makes the news 3 times a decade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pack007 Posted February 4, 2014 Share Posted February 4, 2014 1. King is a great coach wins are proven 2. They don't hand out State Champions you have to earn it. 3. Coach Surratt is a proven winner and your foolish if you think otherwise. 4. One team usually chokes comes playoff time. 5. Longview will win probably their first 14 games then lose Late. 6. Both are great programs and I would trade you coaches just saying.... 7. Just because your bigger doesn't make you better. Again I am not saying Longview would lose to Carthage but your kidding yourself if you think it would 63-3 . I wish Longview would play Gilmer,Kilgore,Carthage to shut them up lol. Longview would be wasting time and gas playing those teams.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarthDawg77 Posted February 4, 2014 Share Posted February 4, 2014 Longview would be wasting time and gas playing those teams. Let em talk... My My My, but aren't You a wee tad confident you Lobos are unbeatable? You kinda remind me of btex! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pack007 Posted February 4, 2014 Share Posted February 4, 2014 My My My, but aren't You a wee tad confident you Lobos are unbeatable? You kinda remind me of btex! Aye!!!! I'm not a lobo fan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarthDawg77 Posted February 4, 2014 Share Posted February 4, 2014 Aye!!!! I'm not a lobo fan. Could fooled ME!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pack007 Posted February 4, 2014 Share Posted February 4, 2014 Could fooled ME!!! I can't help it that you can't read or see. It clearly says Lufkin Panthers in my signature.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarthDawg77 Posted February 4, 2014 Share Posted February 4, 2014 I can't help it that you can't read or see. It clearly says Lufkin Panthers in my signature.. Don't see it &. Can't read it! But please forgive my mistake! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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