PG's Kevin Davis to Carthage?

[PGHawkfan]

I think I speak for everybody when I say no one cares if you quit reading this thread or not!

 

Not so quick PGHawkDad13. I respect what Hawkeye has to say......he is spot on here. This thread has been hijacked.

[PG101]

Two different points to be made here.

 

#1. Kevin Davis is a good man that preached integrity at every turn. He was a great ambassador for the school and well liked in the community. However, he was hampered by two things. First, Coach Jones actively pressures kids to commit to baseball only and this gutted the talent pool going from Middle School to High School. This is not up for debate. This came from the football coaching staff. Period. The other point to be made is that Kevin is not a great offensive coach. He was average. You don't run a silo zone read to the same hole, you don't run a flex one with no motion and you don't run a slot back on an put route with the wideout on a ten yard stop. He was a great one on one coach, just not a strategist by any stretch.

 

#2. As someone that has watched the 7th and 8th grade practices for the last two years, I find it absolutely absurd that Phillips can be considered either a good coach OR role model. And before you get your panties in a knot, yes I played. Yes my kids play and play a lot. This isn't a disgruntled parent with sour grapes.

A. Referring to 7th and 8th graders as "vaginas" isn't cool. I get it in high school. These kids were in grade school either last year or the year before. Telling some of them that they'll "probably stick to the ground" because of said "vaginas" is a bit much. Telling a kid in front of others that his "balls probably haven't dropped yet" isn't cool either. Teaching eighth graders to hold jerseys when the ref isn't looking doesn't exactly scream "character builder" either. There are better ways.

B. Calling off practice, cutting practice short and bailing on B team practices all together so Phillips can go give private pitching lessons for extra income WITH SCHOOL FACILITIES isn't right either. Do you think that the computer teacher can come to the school at night and charge people to teach them with school computers? No. I can tell you that I have heard him tell kids when questioned about football, his answer is "this isn't even y third favorite sport." Nice example.

 

Listen, the guy has never been Anyang but nice to me and my kids but lets not confuse that with being a decent coach. When the moms in the stands are commenting that what he's doing doesn't look right, and grandparents are sharing stories of unacceptable things that he says or does, the problem isn't everyone else. It's him.

 

The rumor has it that he may leave. If so, I wish him the very best. But his mini celebrity status for having coached Wacha doesn't make up for his shortcomings. We need coaches that are enthusiastic, knowledgable and happy to be there. Hopefully we can creat a continuum of excitement among the kids where they want to play Hawk Football. Not just going from a guys that doesn't want to be there, to an inept team full of just the kids that Craig Jones didn't want for baseball.

[2time]

Let me just say PG101 you are wrong in just about everything you say. So let me correct you so you will know just a little bit.

 

#1 coach jones has not pressured kids to only play baseball. In fact he like the multisport athletes a little more and sees that they may can bring more to the table. So sorry you're dead wrong. And of course the other coaches would say that about jones. They didn't want him on the staff. I know the way jones operates he would not do that.

 

#2 I'm really confused on where you're getting that coach phillips isn't a good coach. Yes he is hard on his players but every good coach is. He wins and former players come back to see him because they love him and respect. The same goes for coach jones. Next every coach teaches the holding of the jersey. That's not just him doing that. It is absurd if you don't think he is a good coach. I'm sorry but you have no fact to prove he isn't. All the facts prove that he is. He has won everywhere he has coached. EVERYWHERE. He has a state championship in every sport.

[THS82]

let me start by saying that opinions are like butt holes everybody has one....our opinions vary drastically.....i have been to the seventh and eight grade football and basketball for the last six years and I think that he is a great coach and a great person....i guess all coaches do things we dont like but make no mistake I am a paul phillips fan and he has coached three of my sons....I would take him as a coach for any of my kids....as for coach jones telling kids to play only baseball I do not believe this one bit....I dont care who it came from coaches parents or you....I speak from experience and he told one of my sons to play the other sports....this came straight from his mouth not second hand.....you can have any opinion that you want thats why we live in america, but I strongly disagree with everything you said

[PG101]

let me start by saying that opinions are like butt holes everybody has one....our opinions vary drastically.....i have been to the seventh and eight grade football and basketball for the last six years and I think that he is a great coach and a great person....i guess all coaches do things we dont like but make no mistake I am a paul phillips fan and he has coached three of my sons....I would take him as a coach for any of my kids....as for coach jones telling kids to play only baseball I do not believe this one bit....I dont care who it came from coaches parents or you....I speak from experience and he told one of my sons to play the other sports....this came straight from his mouth not second hand.....you can have any opinion that you want thats why we live in america, but I strongly disagree with everything you said

Now you see boys? Here we have both ends of the spectrum. I made a series of statements that I whole heartedly either believe to be true or have witnessed myself. THS82 disagrees with me but did so in an intelligent and polite way which I respect immensely.

 

Now on the other hand I'd like to help 2time out as a fellow sports enthusiast if nothing else.

#1. If I heard something second hand, you may debate the relative authenticity of it. (That means if it's true or if it ain't, you're welcome). But to say that the things that I have personally seen and heard are dead wrong, well, that's not really up for debate.

#2. As much as I'd like for it to be so, just putting something in ALL CAPS doesn't make it true or add credibility to it. I WISH IT DID THOUGH.

#3. I have no problem with a coach being hard on players. I played for some serious hard #### that I respect very much. My point, which you deftly didn't address (avoided) was the content and context of what Phillips says to 7th and 8th graders. I gave specific examples, all of which don't have any place in middle school sports.

#4. It's not absurd that I think he isn't a good coach. It's an opinion that you disagree with. That's all.

#5. I'm glad to hear that Jones encouraged your kids to be multisport athletes. True or not, I can tell you that the overwhelming opinion of the departing coaching staff was that there was a large push from the baseball staff to not play football. As they were closer to the situation than you or I, I'll at least entertain the idea that there could be an element of truth to it.

 

Lastly, I've heard very positive things about Phillips and baseball. I cannot tell you that he has always been inept at basketball and football but I can tell you that he is now. And the jersey holding was basketball in lieu of teaching fundamental defense. Krzyzewski and Dean Smith didn't teach that. It's bush league and lazy. And no matter how you slice it, either from the perspective of the UIL, or the kids getting shortchanged, it's inexcusable to shirk your primary duties as a paid PG coach, to leave the task that my tax dollars are paying for, and go give private lessons on school property. And this includes doing so during the final period of school. Don't debate it. I was there and saw it.

 

You have the right to be a fan of anyone that you like. As do I. Until I see differently, I'm going with my original assessment. He's a really nice guy and the kids seem like him. Great. But the cold hard truth of it is that if he was the uber champion that you believe he is, he wouldn't still be coaching 7th graders at this stage of his career unless he sees it as his calling. And based on his level of engagement, effort and enthusiasm of late, it ain't calling him very hard anymore. Just my opinion.

[2time]

Glad you gave your opinion but what I stated were facts not opinions.

[TexarkanaIsNotArkansas]

I Guess I was the only one who watched PG football during the Graves, Broadus ERA this guy had PG's offense rolling and he is being hired as an Offensive coordinator so how can his X's and O's be so poor the guy had no talent the last few years so he switched to a clock eating offense but still made the best of ot

[PG101]

I Guess I was the only one who watched PG football during the Graves, Broadus ERA this guy had PG's offense rolling and he is being hired as an Offensive coordinator so how can his X's and O's be so poor the guy had no talent the last few years so he switched to a clock eating offense but still made the best of ot

I Guess I was the only one who watched PG football during the Graves, Broadus ERA this guy had PG's offense rolling and he is being hired as an Offensive coordinator so how can his X's and O's be so poor the guy had no talent the last few years so he switched to a clock eating offense but still made the best of ot

We can all agree on one thing. For whatever reason, KD was woefully hamstrung by a lack of numbers.

 

2Time. Go back and put it all in caps. See if that will make it a fact.

 

Fun times boys!

[centex1]

I think the only thing that would help this situation would be a guy from east hooks cleaning this up. I know one thing he don't take nothing off on anybody. Even men walking down cart paths at golf courses. People from east hooks don't care if your 25 or 95 you will get the same treatment.

[2time]

We can all agree on one thing. For whatever reason, KD was woefully hamstrung by a lack of numbers.

 

2Time. Go back and put it all in caps. See if that will make it a fact.

 

Fun times boys!

One question. How do you know what I said isn't fact? How can you be so sure of it?

Sorry that was two questions but please do answer both.

[Eagles93]

I am not gonna attempt to try to change anybodies opinion on Coach Phillips no matter how crazy I think they are!!! Paul Phillips can coach my kids anyday!!! He wins and the kids love him and that is all I need to know!!

[RedCreek49]

I Guess I was the only one who watched PG football during the Graves, Broadus ERA this guy had PG's offense rolling and he is being hired as an Offensive coordinator so how can his X's and O's be so poor the guy had no talent the last few years so he switched to a clock eating offense but still made the best of ot

Broad us did not play much offense at all. However, do not forget when Roger's was a Sr. That may have been PG's best team under Davis. Davis had a good run when he had some talent. He did not have a lot to work with the past few years. Nick Saban might have pulled out a game or two more per year if lucky, maybe, maybe not. However, Nick is not the best X's and O's coach.

[CanAm]

Broad us did not play much offense at all. However, do not forget when Roger's was a Sr. That may have been PG's best team under Davis. Davis had a good run when he had some talent. He did not have a lot to work with the past few years. Nick Saben might have pulled out a game or two more per year if lucky, maybe, maybe not. However, Nick is not the best X's and O's coach.

This just proves the point once again....its not about the X's and O's, Its about the Jimmy's and Joe's and Carthage has alot more Jimmy's and Joe's than PG has. Davis knows the game and can coach. He has coached at Waxahachie, West-Orange Stark, Texas High, and LK. I may have missed a spot. My point is 2 out of those 4 have a ton of Jimmy's and Joe's and win year in and year out. The other 2 are every once in a while good just like PG. Davis did what he could with what he had. a couple of years he had good players and results were good. Other years not so much. Good luck at Carthage and help them with another title!!!!!

[PG101]

Let me just say PG101 you are wrong in just about everything you say. So let me correct you so you will know just a little bit.

#1 coach jones has not pressured kids to only play baseball. In fact he like the multisport athletes a little more and sees that they may can bring more to the table. So sorry you're dead wrong. And of course the other coaches would say that about jones. They didn't want him on the staff. I know the way jones operates he would not do that.

#2 I'm really confused on where you're getting that coach phillips isn't a good coach. Yes he is hard on his players but every good coach is. He wins and former players come back to see him because they love him and respect. The same goes for coach jones. Next every coach teaches the holding of the jersey. That's not just him doing that. It is absurd if you don't think he is a good coach. I'm sorry but you have no fact to prove he isn't. All the facts prove that he is. He has won everywhere he has coached. EVERYWHERE. He has a state championship in every sport.

Let's wrap up this idiotic circle for the night. I feel like I'm teaching my great grandmother calculus here. And I will attempt to explain the difference between a fact and an opinion to 2time.

 

#1. "Let me just say PG101 you are wrong in just about everything you say". We'll, I witnessed a good portion of what I wrote personally so it's not really up for debate about being "wrong". That's not even an opinion, that's ignorance but anyway.

#2. "coach jones has not pressured kids to only play baseball". What you mean to say is that you haven't seen him do this personally. You have no idea if he has or not. Only he truly does and the kids affected. This is an opinion, not a fact. I swear if I have to put the actual definition on here, this post will reach a new low.

#3. "They didn't want him on the staff. I know the way jones operates he would not do that." Sorry, I doubt you have the inside track on what all of the other coaches did and didn't want. I'm afraid that just because you are the resident expert on "the way Jones operates", that doesn't quite meet fact criteria. Trust me on this one. I had a science class one time.

#4. "I'm really confused on where you're getting that coach phillips isn't a good coach." Now this part I can believe. The part about you being confused. As to why I don't think he's currently a good coach, try picking one of the 27 personally witnessed examples above and actually addressing them like an adult. I think I made my point pretty clear.

#5. "It is absurd if you don't think he is a good coach. I'm sorry but you have no fact to prove he isn't. All the facts prove that he is." Wow. I've written about five responses to this and deleted each one. I'm going to take the higher road and just pass here. There's nothing I can say that won't make you look like a complete idiot and that's not my goal here. A good coach wouldn't do or say the things I've seen and heard. That's my opinion of what a good coach is though.

 

I'm glad you like the guy. Congrats dude. But the fact that you can't refute a single thing in either of my comments speaks more than your enthusiasm for him. It's ok to have an opinion. But you keep using the word fact. In the words of Inigo Montoya in The Princess Bride, " You keep using that word. I do not think that you know what it means."

[PG101]

This just proves the point once again....its not about the X's and O's, Its about the Jimmy's and Joe's and Carthage has alot more Jimmy's and Joe's than PG has. Davis knows the game and can coach. He has coached at Waxahachie, West-Orange Stark, Texas High, and LK. I may have missed a spot. My point is 2 out of those 4 have a ton of Jimmy's and Joe's and win year in and year out. The other 2 are every once in a while good just like PG. Davis did what he could with what he had. a couple of years he had good players and results were good. Other years not so much. Good luck at Carthage and help them with another title!!!!!

He's a super good guy. I hope that he wins with some more horses in the stable.

[RedCreek49]

Well if you want to talk about Jr. High, Davis's first breakout team of Sr.'s did not win a game I. The 7th. 8th and I think 9th grade. The did not win but about two maybe three games their Jr. year but at least two of those wins were district games and they took the third spot in the playoff and one a playoff game before Gilmer put them out.

 

This team did not quit and were motivated to prove that they were winners. They came out the nest year and after being blown out in the first they went on to beat Chapel Hill twice, once in the playoffs, Atlanta, LE, Mt. Vernon, and a great Pittsburg Team, White Oak, New Boston, etc....They were the only team under Davis to win District and they went three rounds deep in the playoffs. PG made it to the 4th round a few years later but got a bye in round 1. That's not bad for team that did not win a game in Jr. High and lost their star RB during the 2nd game of the year and played the rest of the year with their MLB and a Freshman playing RB.

 

They could not have done this without good players and good coaching. These players believe in themselves, played their best with all they had leaving it all on the field, and I have to think coaching played a big part of that. He got their best and the players showed true character. Everyone likes to win all the time but that's not always possible. There are thing more important than just the amount of the wins and losses. It's more about what the kids take with them in life, effort, dedication, determination, courage and faith.

 

I wish coach Davis the best and only hope PG's next coach cares as much about the kids as Davis did!

[futfan]

I think I speak for everybody when I say no one cares if you quit reading this thread or not!

 

No, you can only speak for yourself. It is pretty obvious that it turned into a bunch of middle school bickering on an off topic trail.

I want the threads to be something I want to read, not something I feel I don't want to because of immature postings.

 

If this causes buttthurt, go back and have someone else read it to you from an objective, outside opinion, and you will see that it is not that people should not read, but those that post who drag down the quality of the Smoakhouse.

[futfan]

PG101 and 2Time are having a more civilized version. Although they disagree, at least it has gotten better.

2Time, I think he has a point. As much as you like Coach Phillips, you cannot supercede facts. If he actually witnessed something, you cannot debate it as if it were an opinion, especially by using your opinion. You are in the difficult side of the argument, as you cannot prove a negative, so to speak.

Let me give an example. I can say that Coach X never asked a player to do something, but I cannot prove it never happened. If I witnessed one incident personally, then I could psitively say he did, thus disproving the argument.

All facts aside, everyone has their right to their opinion of any coach, based on their personal experience. That is unlikely to change, because unless it is based on heresay, it is our own personal judgement, and we have all had completely different experiences.

[Eagles93]

Let's wrap up this idiotic circle for the night. I feel like I'm teaching my great grandmother calculus here. And I will attempt to explain the difference between a fact and an opinion to 2time.

 

#1. "Let me just say PG101 you are wrong in just about everything you say". We'll, I witnessed a good portion of what I wrote personally so it's not really up for debate about being "wrong". That's not even an opinion, that's ignorance but anyway.

#2. "coach jones has not pressured kids to only play baseball". What you mean to say is that you haven't seen him do this personally. You have no idea if he has or not. Only he truly does and the kids affected. This is an opinion, not a fact. I swear if I have to put the actual definition on here, this post will reach a new low.

#3. "They didn't want him on the staff. I know the way jones operates he would not do that." Sorry, I doubt you have the inside track on what all of the other coaches did and didn't want. I'm afraid that just because you are the resident expert on "the way Jones operates", that doesn't quite meet fact criteria. Trust me on this one. I had a science class one time.

#4. "I'm really confused on where you're getting that coach phillips isn't a good coach." Now this part I can believe. The part about you being confused. As to why I don't think he's currently a good coach, try picking one of the 27 personally witnessed examples above and actually addressing them like an adult. I think I made my point pretty clear.

#5. "It is absurd if you don't think he is a good coach. I'm sorry but you have no fact to prove he isn't. All the facts prove that he is." Wow. I've written about five responses to this and deleted each one. I'm going to take the higher road and just pass here. There's nothing I can say that won't make you look like a complete idiot and that's not my goal here. A good coach wouldn't do or say the things I've seen and heard. That's my opinion of what a good coach is though.

 

I'm glad you like the guy. Congrats dude. But the fact that you can't refute a single thing in either of my comments speaks more than your enthusiasm for him. It's ok to have an opinion. But you keep using the word fact. In the words of Inigo Montoya in The Princess Bride, " You keep using that word. I do not think that you know what it means."

This is the exact quote of 2time. "I came through the PG program and played for Davis, Jones, and Phillips. Jones and Phillips are by far my favorite coaches. They both build character and teach the things that will help you become a better person and man. So sir you have no idea what you are talking about if you think Phillips does not build character."

 

This is all I need to know, if a kid who played for these coaches has all these nice things to say, I am gonna believe him over a parent who obviously is hurt cause little Johnny got yelled at or called a little girl. Sound like daddy needs to drop a set. This is big boy sports, grow up!!!! You writing an 8 page essay about you opinion being fact and everybody else being wrong, that is just crazy. You don’t like coach Phillips, we get that, but many of us do and you are showing real immaturity. Last time I checked this is a free country, we all have opinions doesn’t make you right and the rest of us wrong. Grow up and realize what the rest of us do, Everybody doesn’t like everybody, people have different opinions, that is what makes this country great. We have the right to believe what we want. If you want to make everybody believe your opinion as fact go overthrow a communist nation and be their dictator.

 

 

[Eagles93]

 

 

[PG101]

PG101 and 2Time are having a more civilized version. Although they disagree, at least it has gotten better.

2Time, I think he has a point. As much as you like Coach Phillips, you cannot supercede facts. If he actually witnessed something, you cannot debate it as if it were an opinion, especially by using your opinion. You are in the difficult side of the argument, as you cannot prove a negative, so to speak.

Let me give an example. I can say that Coach X never asked a player to do something, but I cannot prove it never happened. If I witnessed one incident personally, then I could psitively say he did, thus disproving the argument.

All facts aside, everyone has their right to their opinion of any coach, based on their personal experience. That is unlikely to change, because unless it is based on heresay, it is our own personal judgement, and we have all had completely different experiences.

 

Very well said and exactly correct.

[RedCreek49]

I did not know this thread was about coaches other than Davis. It's disrespectful for all the coaches involved to continue to speak about theses in which this thread was not intended. Start a new thread if you wish to discuss another topic.

[PG101]

This is the exact quote of 2time. "I came through the PG program and played for Davis, Jones, and Phillips. Jones and Phillips are by far my favorite coaches. They both build character and teach the things that will help you become a better person and man. So sir you have no idea what you are talking about if you think Phillips does not build character."

 

This is all I need to know, if a kid who played for these coaches has all these nice things to say, I am gonna believe him over a parent who obviously is hurt cause little Johnny got yelled at or called a little girl. Sound like daddy needs to drop a set as well as son. This is big boy sports, grow up!!!! You writing an 8 page essay about you opinion being fact and everybody else being wrong, that is just crazy. You don’t like coach Phillips, we get that, but many of us do and you are showing real immaturity. Last time I checked this is a free country, we all have opinions doesn’t make you right and the rest of us wrong. Grow up and realize what the rest of us do, Everybody doesn’t like everybody, people have different opinions, that is what makes this country great. We have the right to believe what we want. If you want to make everybody believe your opinion as fact go overthrow a communist nation and be their dictator

 

I'm going to make this as clear and civilized as I am able. Assuming that you aren't intelligent enough to sound out the big words in my "essay", let me give you the highlights. My kid wasn't the one yelled at and called the things that I clearly outlined. I never said that he was. 7th and 8th grade isn't big boy sports. I'm sorry if that minimizes your lot in life as Assistant Concession stand operator and mowing supervisor in Hooks. These kids are 12 years old and telling them that their vaginas will stick to the ground and asking them if their nuts have dropped yet, isn't "big boy sports".

 

I clearly and repeatedly stated what I saw and heard and then clearly again said that the conclusions that I came to, based on those observations, were my opinion. I never said that anyone else was wrong, in fact I am the one pointing out that it is a difference of opinion. If you need me to explain that any clearer, I can send you an explanation in a pop up book if that makes it easier.

 

Nice rant btw on turning this into PG101 versus America and free speach. You're a real intellectual aren't you? I stated an opinion and stated that everyone was entitled to their own. 2Time was the only person stating anything as fact.

 

And my final point is this. And I mean this in the nicest and most genuine way that I can express here. I'm having a civil discourse (that means conversation) on a public forum. Nobody is making it personal until your smart felt the need to call out not only me, who you don't know, but my middle school kids. I can assure that you that neither I, nor my children, need the feedback or guidance of some east Texas underachieving redneck, hiding behind the relative anonymotity (that means we don't know who you are) of the internet. We don't need to "drop a set". Think long and hard before you decide to mouth off about my children buddy. This is as nice and civilized as I'm goiing to explain this to you.

 

[THS82]

seems like we are all hiding behind anonymity in this forum and that includes me and you

[PG101]

seems like we are all hiding behind anonymity in this forum and that includes me and you

The obvious difference is that you and I are sharing contrasting experiences and opinions. We aren't taking shots at each other's kids.