John Tyler (11-1) vs Klein Collins (11-1) At Baylor's McLane Stadium

[3rdcoastent]

I know I heard Miller name almost every play on Def on tackles I know he had to have 10 or more tackles

[Pack007]

Commitment trumps Coaching

True

[VonG]

West Texas and East Texas can always reminisce on their glory days. How things use to be. The burbs have taken over and they are here to stay.

 

Tyler has had tremendous growth over the past 20 years but Tisd has not grown with the city. Tisd will soon be like Disd and Hisd if things don't change for the better.

[32dive]

Winning the state championship is not as important as sending kids to college at JT. JT is a talent program so the talent will always come first.

[JTFAN99]

99 I can't believe I'm explaining this to you again after 32dive already told you this at the beginning of the season. You were talking about the great run that Bryson made against Plano last year. He told you none of that individual stuff matter and I'm telling you the same thing. I don't care about the individual talent. Football is played 11 on 11. Until JT and the other 6a teams can field an complete team, trust me they will never compete in 6a. All of the large schools have good skill position players. None of them have trench type players year in and year out to compete with the big boys. JT offensive and defensive lines were exposed yesterday. How many times did you hear Miller name being called for making the stop yesterday? Did the linebackers play yesterday ? How many times did you see the offensive linemen on top of Goodson yesterday? I don't care about 7 on 7 no more. I know all the schools have good skill position players. We need more camps for offensive and defensive linemen.

I get what your saying Von, but JT just made it to the 3rd round of the playoffs. THE 3RD ROUND. So, I know JT can play in 6a. Now, will JT be on the level of Katy, Allen, or etc.....who knows.....but if the De Sotos and Skylines can compete, you can't tell me JT and LV can't.

 

And you right, JT got beat in the trenches...but you do realize that JT also has a young O-line too, and the Most of the D-line returns next yr. Also, 3 of the 4 starting LBs return next yr too. JT has won in the past without the biggest O-line or D-line. Just go look at the 2000 squad that went to state.

 

But I understand how you feel. In the 90s and even a good portion of the 2000s, the burbs had the big guys, but they didn't have the athletes. Now the burbs have them both, and outstanding coaches, along with summer camps and etc. And even with all of that JT manages to go to 3rd round. I think the East Texas teams can make enough noise in 6a to get some respect. I think LV will be pretty good the next few yrs. But I get it, championships are what its about.

[Grainraiser]

Klein defensive line was alot bigger and definitely stronger than JT offensive line. The same with there offensive line going against JT defensive line. Their linebackers dwarf JT linebackers. It's hard to compete with a school whose 9 grade class have 3 freshman teams. They definitely have quality depth in their program.

 

This is the problem east Texas and Dallas is going to have playing in region 2. Houston school enrollment numbers are much larger than east Texas or Dallas on average. Klein Collins has 3,400 students. They would be a D1 school up north. Football is won in the trenches not with skill athletes. It's hard to compete with 180 lb linebackers. Districts like Klein, Cypress and Katy ISD have huge schools and will always have the size advantage. There smallest school is larger than our largest school in the district. Numbers matter and when you add them with good coaching you have alot to deal with . We played Klein Oak a few years ago in the playoffs and knew we had lost that game when I watched them get off the boat. They outweighed our guys 20lbs per man in the trenches. They just physically pushed us up and down the field. Things will be like this until they find away to even out the enrollment numbers.

[Grainraiser]

Klein defensive line was alot bigger and definitely stronger than JT offensive line. The same with there offensive line going against JT defensive line. Their linebackers dwarf JT linebackers. It's hard to compete with a school whose 9 grade class have 3 freshman teams. They definitely have quality depth in their program.

 

This is the problem east Texas and Dallas is going to have playing in region 2. Houston school enrollment numbers are much larger than east Texas or Dallas on average. Klein Collins has 3,400 students. They would be a D1 school up north. Football is won in the trenches not with skill athletes. It's hard to compete with 180 lb linebackers. Districts like Klein, Cypress and Katy ISD have huge schools and will always have the size advantage. There smallest school is larger than our largest school in the district. Numbers matter and when you add them with good coaching you have alot to deal with . We played Klein Oak a few years ago in the playoffs and knew we had lost that game when I watched them get off the boat. They outweighed our guys 20lbs per man in the trenches. They just physically pushed us up and down the field. Things will be like this until they find away to even out the enrollment numbers.

Klein defensive line was alot bigger and definitely stronger than JT offensive line. The same with there offensive line going against JT defensive line. Their linebackers dwarf JT linebackers. It's hard to compete with a school whose 9 grade class have 3 freshman teams. They definitely have quality depth in their program.

 

This is the problem east Texas and Dallas is going to have playing in region 2. Houston school enrollment numbers are much larger than east Texas or Dallas on average. Klein Collins has 3,400 students. They would be a D1 school up north. Football is won in the trenches not with skill athletes. It's hard to compete with 180 lb linebackers. Districts like Klein, Cypress and Katy ISD have huge schools and will always have the size advantage. There smallest school is larger than our largest school in the district. Numbers matter and when you add them with good coaching you have alot to deal with . We played Klein Oak a few years ago in the playoffs and knew we had lost that game when I watched them get off the boat. They outweighed our guys 20lbs per man in the trenches. They just physically pushed us up and down the field. Things will be like this until they find away to even out the enrollment numbers.

[JTFAN99]

 

This is the problem east Texas and Dallas is going to have playing in region 2. Houston school enrollment numbers are much larger than east Texas or Dallas on average. Klein Collins has 3,400 students. They would be a D1 school up north. Football is won in the trenches not with skill athletes. It's hard to compete with 180 lb linebackers. Districts like Klein, Cypress and Katy ISD have huge schools and will always have the size advantage. There smallest school is larger than our largest school in the district. Numbers matter and when you add them with good coaching you have alot to deal with . We played Klein Oak a few years ago in the playoffs and knew we had lost that game when I watched them get off the boat. They outweighed our guys 20lbs per man in the trenches. They just physically pushed us up and down the field. Things will be like this until they find away to even out the enrollment numbers.

when you are at a public school, you only get what walks through the door. Bigger don't always mean better. The east texas schools can only play with what they got. If your best O-lineman is 6 feet 250, then thats what you have to go with. We can complain all we want, but JT reported 2300 students, Lee is at 2500, and LV is probably getting close to 2300. 6a cutoff was 2150 this yr. Unless they split 6a, which is something that is in discussion, at least 3 of the 4 east Texas schools ain't going anywhere. Might as well get used to 6a, and embrace the challenge.

[JTFAN99]

West Texas and East Texas can always reminisce on their glory days. How things use to be. The burbs have taken over and they are here to stay.

 

Tyler has had tremendous growth over the past 20 years but Tisd has not grown with the city. Tisd will soon be like Disd and Hisd if things don't change for the better.

Abilene and San Angelo Central had very good teams this yr. Abilene should have beat De Soto, and I think San Angelo QB got hurt in the game against Allen. They both could still be playing.

[JTFAN99]

Winning the state championship is not as important as sending kids to college at JT. JT is a talent program so the talent will always come first.

Lets be honest, as much as I want JT to win, making sure these guys become better men is more important. Sending these guys to college is a very respectable thing. It should be the most important thing in a program.

 

But when you are able to do both, thats when you hit gold. Lots of the teams winning state don't really send alot of kids to college...(well at least on a full ride to play football).

[VonG]

99 I never said JT or any of those schools won't be any good. They just can't compete when it comes to winning championships. I for one was against splitting 6a and 5a into 2 divisions like 4a and down. I'm all for it now. We can't compete with burb schools. I was made a believer yesterday. I always thought Lee, JT, Lufkin, and etc. could but the landscape of Texas football has changed. Yeah San Angelo and Abilene made to the 3 round but they were bounced right out. Besides Tyler and Longview East Texas is not growing at a rapid rate like the metropolitan areas are. JT had a great season and I said before the season started they could win district. They did but winning championships is a different animal than what it use to be. Tyler TX period will always have great skill players but now it's time to groom some big uglies to compliment them.

[JTFAN99]

99 I never said JT or any of those schools won't be any good. They just can't compete when it comes to winning championships. I for one was against splitting 6a and 5a into 2 divisions like 4a and down. I'm all for it now. We can't compete with burb schools. I was made a believer yesterday. I always thought Lee, JT, Lufkin, and etc. could but the landscape of Texas football has changed. Yeah San Angelo and Abilene made to the 3 round but they were bounced right out. Besides Tyler and Longview East Texas is not growing at a rapid rate like the metropolitan areas are. JT had a great season and I said before the season started they could win district. They did but winning championships is a different animal than what it use to be. Tyler TX period will always have great skill players but now it's time to groom some big uglies to compliment them.

I agree, 5a and 6a need to be split. To be honest...we need to take 5a and 6a and split them into 3 classes. 5a is 1100-2149 and 6a is 2150 and above. In other words, we need a 7a. Klein Collins had 3591 students in the last alignment. 5a should be like 1100-1700 and 6a 1700-2400, and 7a 2400 and above.

 

But it is what it is. I think this is one of those yrs where KC was just better. I do agree the road to a title in 6a is difficult, but I don't think its impossible. Remember the East Texas schools are already beating the burb schools. Lufkin is in the district with Houston burbs and JT is in the district with Dallas burbs. And JT and LV both won district, and Lufkin nearly got 2nd.

 

Bigger doesn't always equal better. There are several schools in 6a above 3000 kids that the East Texas schools would wipe the floor with. JT and LV were the 2 smallest schools in the district and they won it. JT beat Plano West with 5648 students, Mesquite with 2883 students, and North Mesquite with 2846 students. Lufkin also beat several schools in their district with over 3000 students. Cedar Hill only has 2351 students, which is just a little more than JT's 2270 and they are in hunt every yr. They are easily the smallest school in their district. Everyone else other than Grand Prairie has over 3000 students.

 

I think you are looking at it from the wrong view. You are just thinking about East Texas vs the Burbs...but lets just be honest....Allen, Katy, SLC, De Soto, Lake Travis, etc....are not just a problem for East Texas, but they are a problem for everyone in the state, whether they are in East Texas, West Texas, or the burbs. They are the elite of the elite. The entire state needs to step up to beat them. Good news is that JT and LV have beat some of them before and I believe they can do it again. Maybe not on a yearly basis, but it can be done. Trust me, those burb schools don't take East Texas schools lightly at all.

[3rdcoastent]

A lot of those guys from klien where smaller than some of our guys matter fact I seen at least two or 3 guys same size as Cadillac or smaller

[VonG]

Say man, beating Plano West and Mesquite ain't nothing. They are not good in football. Klein has 3 freshman teams. They have quality depth not just a bunch of numbers. Everybody assume just because you have alot of guys they are not good. The programs that always win don't depend on just 1 player. They have a great system in place. Next man up. You do know Klein beat JT with a backup qb right. Bryson Powers didn't play. Could JT do the same thing with their back up qb. We both know the answer to that one. I was talking to some people from Klein after the game last night. I ask them are y'all always this big. They said yeah and we'll be even bigger next year. The linebacker #22 just turned 16 and he's a jr. When JT beat Desoto they wasn't the Desoto we know of today. Same with Longview beating Allen. Same with Lee beating Trinity. Those teams haven't arrived at the time we beat them. They have arrived now and I don't see any one of us beating them now. Like I said earlier I don't care how great your skill kids are. You better start grooming your big uglies to get strong and tough in those trenches. That's were the game is won and lost. I was blind once but now I see. Tyler will always breed the next Greg Ward, Fred Coleman, Fred Ross, Jeremy Johnson, Morris Anderson, Tyrone Ross, and company. I not worried about them. We need some killers on those lines and I haven't seen none in along time.

[JTFAN99]

Say man, beating Plano West and Mesquite ain't nothing. They are not good in football. Klein has 3 freshman teams. They have quality depth not just a bunch of numbers. Everybody assume just because you have alot of guys they are not good. The programs that always win don't depend on just 1 player. They have a great system in place. Next man up. You do know Klein beat JT with a backup qb right. Bryson Powers didn't play. Could JT do the same thing with their back up qb. We both know the answer to that one. I was talking to some people from Klein after the game last night. I ask them are y'all always this big. They said yeah and we'll be even bigger next year. The linebacker #22 just turned 16 and he's a jr. When JT beat Desoto they wasn't the Desoto we know of today. Same with Longview beating Allen. Same with Lee beating Trinity. Those teams haven't arrived at the time we beat them. They have arrived now and I don't see any one of us beating them now. Like I said earlier I don't care how great your skill kids are. You better start grooming your big uglies to get strong and tough in those trenches. That's were the game is won and lost. I was blind once but now I see. Tyler will always breed the next Greg Ward, Fred Coleman, Fred Ross, Jeremy Johnson, Morris Anderson, Tyrone Ross, and company. I not worried about them. We need some killers on those lines and I haven't seen none in along time.

Von, the teams you are talking about are problems for the entire state....not just East Texas. Heck other burb schools ain't beating them either. Also, the QB may be the backup, but he actually has more passes than Powers. If you look at his stats on Maxpreps, it appears that he has been rotating in at QB all yr, so I wouldn't really call him a backup.

 

I wouldn't get to hung up on the fact that Klein has 3 freshman teams. Heck, the Plano schools have 4 and JT competes just fine with them. Maybe Klein Collins was just better this yr. Should we judge JT future success based on one game? The better team won, but that doesn't mean future Klein Collins teams could beat JT. And I would argue that Allen and De Soto were top 10 teams with LV and JT beat them. I can agree that Allen is a notch better, but I'm not sure about the other schools. Katy has been Katy since the 90s, but JT beat them.

 

Also, Im looking at Klein Collins O-line size on Maxpreps, and I don't see how they are that much bigger than JTs. JT size based on measurements is about the same. KC only has one guy who is being heavily recruited on the O line based on 247 and Rivals and he is going to Tulsa. JT has been sending O-lineman and D-lineman to Div.1 and Div.1 AA schools nearly every year since Coach Wilson was at JT. Just go and look. So I wouldn't say JT isn't developing guys in the trenches. Unless you are saying their unit as a whole is better. But again, Bigger doesn't mean better.

 

Its very possible you could be totally right on your prediction, I just think we need a better sample size to judge before we make this statement. One year in 6a is too soon to judge future success in my opinion.

[VonG]

Von, the teams you are talking about are problems for the entire state....not just East Texas. Heck other burb schools ain't beating them either. Also, the QB may be the backup, but he actually has more passes than Powers. If you look at his stats on Maxpreps, it appears that he has been rotating in at QB all yr, so I wouldn't really call him a backup.

 

I wouldn't get to hung up on the fact that Klein has 3 freshman teams. Heck, the Plano schools have 4 and JT competes just fine with them. Maybe Klein Collins was just better this yr. Should we judge JT future success based on one game? The better team won, but that doesn't mean future Klein Collins teams could beat JT. And I would argue that Allen and De Soto were top 10 teams with LV and JT beat them. I can agree that Allen is a notch better, but I'm not sure about the other schools. Katy has been Katy since the 90s, but JT beat them.

 

Also, Im looking at Klein Collins O-line size on Maxpreps, and I don't see how they are that much bigger than JTs. JT size based on measurements is about the same. KC only has one guy who is being heavily recruited on the O line based on 247 and Rivals and he is going to Tulsa. JT has been sending O-lineman and D-lineman to Div.1 and Div.1 AA schools nearly every year since Coach Wilson was at JT. Just go and look. So I wouldn't say JT isn't developing guys in the trenches. Unless you are saying their unit as a whole is better. But again, Bigger doesn't mean better.

 

Its very possible you could be totally right on your prediction, I just think we need a better sample size to judge before we make this statement. One year in 6a is too soon to judge future success in my opinion.

I wasn't speaking for the whole state. I was speaking for Tyler and East Texas large schools. I don't care what max preps said about their size. I know what I saw on the field on this Saturday. They were way larger than JT. Everyone else saw the same thing I saw. I also named other teams that eliminated JT in the playoffs not just Klein. I'm not saying you have to have the biggest linemen but you and I both know the linemen are not of the same caliber when the great Alan Wilson was coaching at JT. They also run a different offense from when Coach Wilson was here. They don't have to maul teams like they did in the 90's.

[Grainraiser]

Well we have been in 6A for awhile and I say without a doubt size matters. The last time we lost a playoff game to team with a smaller enrollment than us was to Copperas Cove in 2011. Since then we have lost to Skyline, Allen, Klein Oak and Woodlands. All of those teams have over 4k students while we were at 2,200-2,300 students. The last time Longview took a beat down was back in 2012 when they played Coppell. Guess how many students Coppell have. The Plano schools are horrible because they are still living in the glory days of the 80's. If they ever decide to change AD's and hire quality coaches they will be a district to reckon with. Enrollment numbers are not everything but combine them with a good coach and you will see what it means. As a example I bring you the Duncanville Panthers. They were nothing until Coach Samples arrived. He now has them making a deep run in only his second season. Two years from now they will be a national power. They have over 4k students and great facilities which is something he has never had (Skyline is mostly hispanic and there talent came from Oak Cliff). Those Houston schools are growing by leaps and bounds and they can't build new high schools fast enough. Again KC has 3,500 students and they are D2 for god sakes. East Texas are the Dallas burbs will never match that. Euless Trinity numbers are down. SLC is trying to hang on to their glory days even though their participation numbers are also down. Katy has had over 3500 students for years and they are just now being pushed up to D1. High School football is changing and if the UIL does not do something to even up the numbers the small schools are going to get squeezed out.

[JTFAN99]

I wasn't speaking for the whole state. I was speaking for Tyler and East Texas large schools. I don't care what max preps said about their size. I know what I saw on the field on this Saturday. They were way larger than JT. Everyone else saw the same thing I saw. I also named other teams that eliminated JT in the playoffs not just Klein. I'm not saying you have to have the biggest linemen but you and I both know the linemen are not of the same caliber when the great Alan Wilson was coaching at JT. They also run a different offense from when Coach Wilson was here. They don't have to maul teams like they did in the 90's.

good points. But I have to have some hope for east Texas...because Class 6a is the new home for the east Texas schools for quite sometime until the UIL creates another class or split 6a.

[JTFAN99]

Well we have been in 6A for awhile and I say without a doubt size matters. The last time we lost a playoff game to team with a smaller enrollment than us was to Copperas Cove in 2011. Since then we have lost to Skyline, Allen, Klein Oak and Woodlands. All of those teams have over 4k students while we were at 2,200-2,300 students. The last time Longview took a beat down was back in 2012 when they played Coppell. Guess how many students Coppell have. The Plano schools are horrible because they are still living in the glory days of the 80's. If they ever decide to change AD's and hire quality coaches they will be a district to reckon with. Enrollment numbers are not everything but combine them with a good coach and you will see what it means. As a example I bring you the Duncanville Panthers. They were nothing until Coach Samples arrived. He now has them making a deep run in only his second season. Two years from now they will be a national power. They have over 4k students and great facilities which is something he has never had (Skyline is mostly hispanic and there talent came from Oak Cliff). Those Houston schools are growing by leaps and bounds and they can't build new high schools fast enough. Again KC has 3,500 students and they are D2 for god sakes. East Texas are the Dallas burbs will never match that. Euless Trinity numbers are down. SLC is trying to hang on to their glory days even though their participation numbers are also down. Katy has had over 3500 students for years and they are just now being pushed up to D1. High School football is changing and if the UIL does not do something to even up the numbers the small schools are going to get squeezed out.

I understand your points...but I also think Coaching is a big part of why these programs are winning. You mention Skyline and Duncanville. Well Skyline does have over 4000 students, but 3000 are Hispanic, and we know that very few play football at Skyline. But yet Skyline was a title contender every yr. Until Samples arrive, they were avg, now he is gone, and they aren't that good. But look at Duncanville. Not very good recently before Samples, and now they are in the 4th round. Whats the difference here.....COACHING. Skyline demographics are very similar to JT's....as far as Black students go....just add twice as many Hispanics. LV also has similiar demo to JT.

 

I guess what Im saying is that great Coaching can outweigh some of the demographic issues. Again, Im not saying you and Von aren't right, I'm just saying its too soon to know. LV has some very good talent coming up, and JT is JT. Lee also has a good coach in place, and Lufkin always has talent. Lets see how things go over the next 4-5 yrs. If east Texas is going 4 rounds deep every year, then that tells me that the East Texas schools are top 10 teams, which tells me they can compete. But in the future, I think it would be good to schedule some of these schools in the preseason to get a good idea where East Texas stand. You don't have to load up the schedule, but one game a yr will be good enough. East Texas schools used to do this in the past...but now those schools want to save money and play close to home, because there are other good schools in the metro areas...so they ain't traveling any more.

[VonG]

good points. But I have to have some hope for east Texas...because Class 6a is the new home for the east Texas schools for quite sometime until the UIL creates another class or split 6a.

Hey man I have hope also. Anybody who know me personally know I love the TYL. I was just amazed at how Klein made JT look Saturday. I thought JT had the team to do it this year. That game showed us we have along way to go. I'm not surprised JT gave up 56 points to Klein . They gave up 49 to Lufkin and 59 to Rockwall. No shock right there. I was shocked they held the greatest offense to come through Tyler to 14. That's why my emphasis is on coaches developing tough linemen. I repeat we will always produce great skill position players. That's not changing any time soon. I always thought Lee and JT could compete year in and year out in any division. My thought process is changing and I'm not going by my heart anymore but coming face to face with reality.

[VonG]

good points. But I have to have some hope for east Texas...because Class 6a is the new home for the east Texas schools for quite sometime until the UIL creates another class or split 6a.

Hey man I have hope also. Anybody who know me personally know I love the TYL. I was just amazed at how Klein made JT look Saturday. I thought JT had the team to do it this year. That game showed us we have along way to go. I'm not surprised JT gave up 56 points to Klein . They gave up 49 to Lufkin and 59 to Rockwall. No shock right there. I was shocked they held the greatest offense to come through Tyler to 14. That's why my emphasis is on coaches developing tough linemen. I repeat we will always produce great skill position players. That's not changing any time soon. I always thought Lee and JT could compete year in and year out in any division. My thought process is changing and I'm not going by my heart anymore but coming face to face with reality.

[VonG]

I understand your points...but I also think Coaching is a big part of why these programs are winning. You mention Skyline and Duncanville. Well Skyline does have over 4000 students, but 3000 are Hispanic, and we know that very few play football at Skyline. But yet Skyline was a title contender every yr. Until Samples arrive, they were avg, now he is gone, and they aren't that good. But look at Duncanville. Not very good recently before Samples, and now they are in the 4th round. Whats the difference here.....COACHING. Skyline demographics are very similar to JT's....as far as Black students go....just add twice as many Hispanics. LV also has similiar demo to JT.

 

I guess what Im saying is that great Coaching can outweigh some of the demographic issues. Again, Im not saying you and Von aren't right, I'm just saying its too soon to know. LV has some very good talent coming up, and JT is JT. Lee also has a good coach in place, and Lufkin always has talent. Lets see how things go over the next 4-5 yrs. If east Texas is going 4 rounds deep every year, then that tells me that the East Texas schools are top 10 teams, which tells me they can compete. But in the future, I think it would be good to schedule some of these schools in the preseason to get a good idea where East Texas stand. You don't have to load up the schedule, but one game a yr will be good enough. East Texas schools used to do this in the past...but now those schools want to save money and play close to home, because there are other good schools in the metro areas...so they ain't traveling any more.

If I'm coaching in the metroplex why would I schedule a team from East Texas when I can schedule a quality team down the street and save money on travel and make more money at home.

[32dive]

Lets be honest, as much as I want JT to win, making sure these guys become better men is more important. Sending these guys to college is a very respectable thing. It should be the most important thing in a program.

 

But when you are able to do both, thats when you hit gold. Lots of the teams winning state don't really send alot of kids to college...(well at least on a full ride to play football).

It's obvious that JT's priority is to showcase the talent for recruiting purpose. Playing in the playoffs depends on how much talent the team has.

[32dive]

Hey man I have hope also. Anybody who know me personally know I love the TYL. I was just amazed at how Klein made JT look Saturday. I thought JT had the team to do it this year. That game showed us we have along way to go. I'm not surprised JT gave up 56 points to Klein . They gave up 49 to Lufkin and 59 to Rockwall. No shock right there. I was shocked they held the greatest offense to come through Tyler to 14. That's why my emphasis is on coaches developing tough linemen. I repeat we will always produce great skill position players. That's not changing any time soon. I always thought Lee and JT could compete year in and year out in any division. My thought process is changing and I'm not going by my heart anymore but coming face to face with reality.

Ennis, the same team that lost to Jax, held JT offense to 14 first half points. 3-7 Mesquite held JT offense to 20 in the game. The writing was on the wall against the right defense.

[Grainraiser]

The first time CHill played Katy in the state game they made the 6A cutoff by 8 students. I watched them play Allen two years in a row and they were not match for the Eagles. Allen simply pushed them up and down the field (Murray was a partime player that first meeting). Katy fans were butt hurt when I told them know way in hell were they going to beat Allen that year. CHill was not even a top 5 team in the DFW that year and they went all the way to state. I'm not saying a East Texas or small DFW team can't win it all. I am saying it will take a once in a 10 year class to do it. If Cedar Hill loses McGuire to college they will never win another state title. Right know they have the elite athletes and coaching to compete. Lose one of them and it's over.