What’s up with the Refs?

[RETIREDFAN1]

What im starting to see more of is a Coach yelling their holding our (whatever) the ref turns his head the two players are separated by then but ref calls holding anyway. If you don't see it you can't call it. Have seen this in every game at every level.

Thats how they call it in Evadale, aint that right Rebgp.....:lol:

[PelvisPresley]

My two cents - for what it's worth.

 

During the 1950's, I always went with my Dad when he called games. I loved the game like he did, but I choose coaching instead. I have been around the game for decades and probably coached in 250 games.

 

During my early years on the sideline, I used to call him weekly and often complained about the officiating. One day he said, “Son, what you need to do is sit down and think about what you expect from officials and write down those expectations. Then a few days later, re-read and re-think that list to see if they are reasonable. If they are, write them down, keep them with you, and use them to judge the officiating you got this week. It may not be as easy as you think.” So I did – and it wasn't all that easy … but in the end, these are the seven I continue judge them on each week.

 

1.) Know the rules … period … no excuses.

 

2.) Hustle – I can't stand a lazy official. Learn to be where you need to be when you need to be there.

 

3.) Be diligent in your preparation and effort – kids work hard during the week to play on Friday nights … they should expect nothing less from you.

 

4.) Call what you actually see, not what you thought you saw – if you're not 100% sure, keep it in your pocket

 

5.) Call the game based on your perception of the action not those standing or sitting behind you – having rabbit ears is a sure sign of incompetence and lack of faith/belief in your own decision-making abilities.

 

6.) Be decisive … late flags may please some and may be related to the correct call, but knee-jerk calls can sometimes give the impression and interpretation that the fans and coaches helped.

 

7.) Control the overall demeanor and safety of the game, but don't dictate its outcome. Be in charge, but don't be so egotistical that the head coach can't approach you reasonably with a question. They best officiated games are often the ones where on your way home you can't remember the officials even being there.

 

 

I'm more of a fan now, but I still have a dog in the hunt – so sometimes I get riled and respond. But in the end, in the quietness of the moment later on, I still use the list to evaluate what I saw.

 

Inherent things in the system I don't like:

 

The less mobile the “white hat” is the further from the action he thinks he needs to be.

I watched a game the other night where the referee was 25-30 yards from the LOS. At his age, I hope he has better eyesight than I have at mine.

 

Younger, more mobile, and more inexperienced officials often start as the Back Judge. They end up primarily as a time-keeper. When in reality, they have one the toughest jobs because pass interference is so complicated that it has become virtually in the eye of the beholder.

 

The more experienced linesman usually works the chain side which is with the visitors … the less experiencd with the home side … while the more experienced has learned to virtually shut his ears during the action, the inexperienced maybe not as much. His demeanor often can give the impression of “home-cooking” especially if the flag comes in late. (Back in the old days, you knew to always run you wall punt return to your own bench … think about it) … and when, some years ago, they moved the linesmen back to the sidelines, it kinda makes it easier to coaches to try to help with calls. The linesman job has gotten tougher – with spread offenses, multiple jet sweeps, and bubble screens – they need to understand that their job is bigger than just blowing a whistle and spotting the ball.

 

In reality, every Umpire will tell you that there is holding present on EVERY play.

Given that scenario, when it is called – why was it called?

Some maintain that the point at which they not only have to determine holding, but also if it actually made a difference in the play results in inconsistencies – to me, using that as a determination at the speed that kids play now, that is a recipe for disaster … and no, I don't have a solution in mind ...

 

Oh … and thanks Dad for ALL your advice .... I miss you every day.

 

This was a great one. It's very hard at times to control that urge to fuss when it is a human doing the best they can do out there, My dad was HS football coach for 30 plus years and it led me to the coaching career.

[MUSTANGMANIA]

Ive seen one really bad crew this year. That was the Overton/ San Augustine game. And Ive seen on flat-out horrible crew this year. I mean it was ridiculous. That was the Overton/Mt Enterprise game. Yeah, I know. Who cares about 1-5 vs 0-6 when you're assigned a game. Well, you still have a job to do. Interference calls, poor ball spotting, marking penalties off wrong, and took a clear interception away from Mount E on our sideline. Took them 5 minutes to mark off a holding penalty b/c they had already moved the chains before the penalty was settled.

[Sideliner]

Maybe if the public (and some coaches) knew all the mechanics the crews use and how they manage the game it would be helpful.

 

As far as holding goes, the coaches are screaming about this on every play. Refs should not let the coaches influence their calls. A well placed sideline interference call should take care of that.

[Stankylegg]

Ive seen one really bad crew this year. That was the Overton/ San Augustine game. And Ive seen on flat-out horrible crew this year. I mean it was ridiculous. That was the Overton/Mt Enterprise game. Yeah, I know. Who cares about 1-5 vs 0-6 when you're assigned a game. Well, you still have a job to do. Interference calls, poor ball spotting, marking penalties off wrong, and took a clear interception away from Mount E on our sideline. Took them 5 minutes to mark off a holding penalty b/c they had already moved the chains before the penalty was settled.

Sometimes the chains moving is, but isn't their fault. Most of the time it's fans that are volunteered or paid by the hosting school to work the chains. They are told not to move until the officials signal them to move, but I've seen a HL having to assess a fumble and the chains have already moved when he looks up. That's not really his fault, but he will get the blame for it. Just like he would get the blame in that same play for making the wrong possession call if he was turned around watching to make sure the chains didn't move on him.

[TheShadowKnows]

Wrong.....many of us have been stuck on the sidelines watching refs incompetence cost our kids games....we can pontificate on this subject to our hearts content......

The biggest problem with refs is they do not care if you win or lose.

[TheShadowKnows]

http://www.maxpreps.com/news/t34C-IyfmEewOgn1ObDj0g/coaches-corner--the-shortage-of-officials-is-our-fault.htm

Coaches Corner: The shortage of officials is our fault What's driving older referees to retire and why aren't younger ones sticking with it?

[KirtFalcon]

The biggest problem with refs is they do not care if you win or lose.

 

:lol: .... They aren't suppose to care if you win or lose. They are suppose to call an impartial game .... :lol:

 

If they cared who won or lost, that WOULD be a big problem ....

[KirtFalcon]

When Garrison played TK Gorman earlier this year, one of their RBs and some of their linemen were either leaning, falling or moving before the snap almost the entire game. The back judge and line judge let it go the entire game ... you could have called illegal motion on almost every play ...

[trueblue82]

When Garrison played TK Gorman earlier this year, one of their RBs and some of their linemen were either leaning, falling or moving before the snap almost the entire game. The back judge and line judge let it go the entire game ... you could have called illegal motion on almost every play ...

Ive seen that several times this year. Weve gotten away with a couple.

[3rdand5]

This was a great one. It's very hard at times to control that urge to fuss when it is a human doing the best they can do out there, My dad was HS football coach for 30 plus years and it led me to the coaching career.

This was a great post. I watched a white hat the other night and he would be at 30 yards from the line of scrimmage. He never moved from that spot till the umpire set the ball for the next play. Then he would start play clock. The only time he as involved is when one of the coaches walk out to him to talk. He called one penalty the whole night and that was roughing the passer because the kid hit the QB about thirty yards behind the line of scrimmage. The umpire was as bad he stood in the way most of the night and if you was trying to a quick offense you could forget it. He just walk up and took his time setting the ball. The side judges were not very good either. They would spot the three feet different than the other ref. The umpire would just spilt the difference. I agree they are hard to find but it's not right to the kids that is asked to practice hard and then go and play with this type of calling.

[Stankylegg]

When Garrison played TK Gorman earlier this year, one of their RBs and some of their linemen were either leaning, falling or moving before the snap almost the entire game. The back judge and line judge let it go the entire game ... you could have called illegal motion on almost every play ...

That's not the back judges call.

 

Maybe it's less of an issue of the officials not knowing the rules and more of an issue of the fans not knowing the mechanics.

[Stankylegg]

I've been frustrated with officials at times, but I've been overall pleased with the officiating at CH games this year. Sure there are calls that as a fan you biasedly complain about, but the officials overall have done just fine by my standards. I hear people around me at games all the time griping about officials and they don't know what they are talking about.

 

"That's face guarding". - face guarding only a penalty in the NFL, not high school.

 

Punting team player touches the ball, but does not possess it. Receiving team player attempts to make a return, but fumbles and punting team recovers. Possession goes to the receiving team. If you don't believe me, look it up.

 

"He's holding" - if it's not directly around the play, it probably won't be called. 5 officials can't see the entire field, no matter how much you think they should be able to.

 

"That's a late hit" - 4 plays later... "He barely even got rid of the football. There's no way for that kid to stop that quick."

 

Center moves the ball forward slightly when he gets into his stance. Defensive player is already lined up based on spot of ball by officials. "He's lined up offsides."

 

Folks in the stands having a better view of if his feet were in bounds, than the official actually standing on the boundary.

 

Folks knowledge of Live ball penalty and dead ball penalty assessment always makes me laugh, especially when you have one of each on the same play.

 

My experience is most folks scream for a penalty or against a penalty that if roles were reversed to the other team, they would be happy with the way the officials assessed it.

 

Also, the folks that just start hollering because everyone else around them is hollering.

 

Officials are going to get complaints, and the officials I know are okay with that. They don't really care about what the fans do because there is a barrier between them and the fans. The officials that I know say that coaches on Thursday nights for 2-4 separate games in one night are the worst part of their job.

[RETIREDFAN1]

The biggest problem with refs is they do not care if you win or lose.

 

The biggest problem with many refs is incompetence and unprofessionalism.....not caring who wins or loses is actually a PLUS .......

[OldGeezer]

Best thing you can hope for as a coach is consistant calls for both teams and no late calls that can change the outcome.

[MattStepp]

http://lonestarvarsity.com/news/37745/officials-admit-they-re-not-perfect,-but-abuse-hurting-rookie-numbers/

[Stankylegg]

Best thing you can hope for as a coach is consistant calls for both teams and no late calls that can change the outcome.

Unless the infraction changed the outcome and a penalty should be called. Pass interference is one that gets a lot of flack at the end of a game. Most officials explain before the game what they are looking for to call PI. At the end of the game most officials aren't going to call it just over some hand fighting. It has to be egregious. Also late in the game most aren't going to call a holding penalty unless it's the time where the offensive player is tugging from the side or behind the defender.

 

I don't watch any games lower than the 4A level, so I can't speak for the officials in those games, but I do know several officials and just because they are at a 2A or 3A game this week, doesn't mean they are bottom of the barrel officials. I know of multiple crews that have worked REL or JT games and also Grapeland or Carlisle games. They are drafted before the season starts and much to many folks surprise are hardly ever "home town officials."

[TheShadowKnows]

The problem is.....

[RETIREDFAN1]

The problem is.....

 

 

:lol:

[TheShadowKnows]

Also when you are good, the officials are better, but when you are bad the officials are worse.

[Stankylegg]

Also when you are good, the officials are better, but when you are bad the officials are worse.

yep

[MustangPower]

Also when you are good, the officials are better, but when you are bad the officials are worse.

The coaches draft true officials so it don't matter weather you good or bad.

[TheShadowKnows]

The coaches draft true officials so it don't matter weather you good or bad.

The Stealth Bombers must be taking off over at Barksdale AFB, because that analogy went right over your head.

 

[bluesky]

Wrong.....many of us have been stuck on the sidelines watching refs incompetence cost our kids games....we can pontificate on this subject to our hearts content......

Maybe your kids aren't as good as you think they are.

[bluesky]

The early wistle was the only bad call that could have been a turn over. I'll say it again and maybe you can pass it on "the ground can't cause a turn over". And your DB tackled our receiver on the three. It's strange we've had nothing but good to say about your team, it's on your coaches to have them ready to play the second half.

This guy right here knows some football. He sees D1 talent when no one else can.