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Celina vs Jasper


orangethunder1

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I think Jasper wins this one by at least a couple of TDs.  Celina has a way of keeping things close, but I think the consistent pounding by the o-line and running game will make them vulnerable over the top.  With Jasper's speed advantage, it doesn't bode well for the Bobcats.  I could be wrong, but I doubt it.

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What's going on here?  Seems most of the Smoaky board seems to be picking Jasper?  From the two Jasper games that I saw this year, and from listening to their games, I think you can discount most of the offensive stats because the starters have pretty much been on the sidelines in the second half of most games.  The Jasper announcer said that against Atlanta was the first game that Jasper played the starters till near the end of the game.  Obviously Jasper coaches respected the comeback ability of Atlanta and just kept pouring it on.  Just saw on MaxPreps where Jasper had almost 600 yards total offense and did not even have their top running back suited up.  Speed?  My unscientific gut observation is that this Jasper team seems to have more "take it to the end zone speed" and depth than I have seen from them in years.  It will be interesting to see how that 10-1 theory works out.  Best of luck to both teams.

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Round Two: the point at which the Contenders become distinguishable from the Pretenders ...

A game where the true Contenders may overcome a mistake or two ... but the Pretenders are not afforded that luxury.

And the sheep are divided from the goats.

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On 11/20/2017 at 8:53 PM, Skeptic said:

What's going on here?  Seems most of the Smoaky board seems to be picking Jasper?  From the two Jasper games that I saw this year, and from listening to their games, I think you can discount most of the offensive stats because the starters have pretty much been on the sidelines in the second half of most games.  The Jasper announcer said that against Atlanta was the first game that Jasper played the starters till near the end of the game.  Obviously Jasper coaches respected the comeback ability of Atlanta and just kept pouring it on.  Just saw on MaxPreps where Jasper had almost 600 yards total offense and did not even have their top running back suited up.  Speed?  My unscientific gut observation is that this Jasper team seems to have more "take it to the end zone speed" and depth than I have seen from them in years.  It will be interesting to see how that 10-1 theory works out.  Best of luck to both teams.

I was more impressed by Jaspers o-line play, and their ability to shed tackles than anything. They didn't have as much speed as Atlanta, in my eyes. They didn't have the speed to get the edge like Atlanta did anyways, they just run it down our throats. Even when Atlanta would hit the Jasper backs behind the line of scrimmage though, they'd find some way to fall 3-4 yards up field. That's if we even touched them. That line was fun to watch, especially knowing our offensive line struggles we've had this season. 

Sad thing is though, I don't think Jasper will be suiting up their starting RB again period. Kind of glad I didn't see the kid honestly. That being said, anybody could have run through them holes. Kinda like the Dallas Cowboys the past few years, just throw a RB back there. 

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On 11/20/2017 at 4:29 PM, Eagleborn said:

You are the best. 

This is the Jasper set I want to see how Celina will adjust their 10-1 to  ... C will need to do something or Barbay will not run anything else ... seriously outflanked here

 

flank.jpg

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21 minutes ago, DOB said:

This is the Jasper set I want to see how Celina will adjust their 10-1 to  ... C will need to do something or Barbay will not run anything else ... seriously outflanked here

 

flank.jpg

So much margin for error. With so many moving parts, it's going to be easy to get the safety to over-commit. 

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24 minutes ago, H3llR4z0r said:

So much margin for error. With so many moving parts, it's going to be easy to get the safety to over-commit. 

Without adjustment, the Belly-G becomes a pure contest between the FS and the FB at about five yards downfield. I think that is a negative if I was playing defense.

However, the WB Double-G Reverse will, as you say, take the MLB and the FS initially away from the point of attack because generally they key the Fullback

There are a couple of things C might do ... first, they could slide the TNT to the Tackle-Over ... that does require mental adjustments to reads and gap control – but these are not difficult if worked on in practice.and that would be more sound against the FB Belly. But, it makes you a little more vunerable to the FB Quick Trap, which is how a lot of folks tried to attack the 10-1 in the old days. All in all, it might not be a bad move because Jasper does run the FB Quick Trap, but they are not as crisp at it as other pure Wing-T teams you'll see.

On the downside, while the D is more sound against the straight Belly, it doesn't really help as much against the Double-G Reverse because the FS key still initially takes him the wrong direction.

SLIDING DOWN ...

slide down.jpg

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8 minutes ago, DOB said:

Without adjustment, the Belly-G becomes a pure contest between the FS and the FB at about five yards downfield. I think that is a negative if I was playing defense.

However, the WB Double-G Reverse will, as you say, take the MLB and the FS initially away from the point of attack because generally they key the Fullback

There are a couple of things C might do ... first, they could slide the TNT to the Tackle-Over ... that does require mental adjustments to reads and gap control – but these are not difficult if worked on in practice.and that would be more sound against the FB Belly. But, it makes you a little more vunerable to the FB Quick Trap, which is how a lot of folks tried to attack the 10-1 in the old days. All in all, it might not be a bad move because Jasper does run the FB Quick Trap, but they are not as crisp at it as other pure Wing-T teams you'll see.

On the downside, while the D is more sound against the straight Belly, it doesn't really help as much against the Double-G Reverse because the FS key still initially takes him the wrong direction.

SLIDING DOWN ...

slide down.jpg

Yea, and with the safety coming down, all he has to do is get past the line and he's got green grass (turf). They ran trap quite a few times against us, and it was quite successful. Those lineman got such a good push that they just opened a gaping hole to run through. 

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1 hour ago, H3llR4z0r said:

Awesome way of breaking it down to the wire though. I love talking/learning about this stuff. I enjoy breaking it down to the science it is. 

The second possibility is going to a dual safety look. 10-1 people don't like to take the FS out of the middle because from this position he can fill both off-tackle alleys and more importantly, he generally takes the QB on the option to either side.

But Jasper not being an frequent option team (especially out of the Tackle-Over), it might not be as crucial. Also, the TE is a good looking athlete but he plays a limited role in the playaction passing game(again, especially in the Tackle-Over). I've seen him in the flats off a boot look and in the veer-release seam, but he rarely drags unless in the shotgun look. So from a drop safety look away from the tackle-over, I would be comfortable keying him from six yards and still be able to fill the “short-side” off tackle hole if he blocked down on the 3-Tech or sealed on the Mike or to the off-side if he cuts down while filling for the pulling guard.

Using this method, the FS can support the Tackle-Over side quicker and more aggressively on the Belly-G … and by keying a Tackle-Over side lineman, the quick read puts him in position to contest the WB on the Reverse.

The key to defending Jasper in the Wing is no different than most other pure Wing-T teams. You don't start by looking at what they DO, you look at what they DON'T or WON'T DO. And once you determine that, then you use that information to load up on what they DO DO. That may sound a little strange, but each version of the Wing (or Slot-T) has certain things they only do if they hold a numerical advantage to a playside. They also use things in special series – or play patterns – and as a result some tendencies come out. Example: most only trap to the strong side, using only a quick-side guard to trap; and there are many others along the same lines. (Especially if they don't Flip-Flop their OLine - like when PG sets their Wing to the left ... from what I've seen, a large majority of the time they are up to something besides their base Wing-T Offense). 

Jasper is no different. Barbay is sharp and if you stop him in one way, he quickly goes into a pattern of seeking other sets to run the same plays but giving you a different look. And using four receivers, he makes it difficult to load up a side with man coverage without weakening support elsewhere – Example is the Tackle-Over set. In a lot of ways, I see strong similarities in his offense to what Curtis ran decades ago.

Sorry, old coaches start to slober when you put a piece of chalk in their hands. I am going to try make the game just to watch it all unfold. Gotta love this time of year.

dual s.jpg

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Have been both OC and DC, from 2A to 6A as First Asst back in the Seventies and Eighties ... was lucky enough to work both sides of the ball when I was young (nothing like seeing things from both perspectives - too many young coaches specialize too early to one side of the ball or the other)

And was around some really good X's and O's people who loved to argue with the chalk.  I loved that and soaked it all in.  The key there is not being in a really big hurry to be the first coach out the door following workouts.  Coaching on grass is just half the profession.

Have a son who is a HC and everytime he sees he coming he rolls his eyes and hides all the scratch pads.

Defense has definitely changed ... I have pretty much run all the different ones and the real challenge is being able to determine which one is best for your KIDS.

Some people take a defense and uses their KIDS to build into it ... Others take their KIDS and build the defense around them.  There's a big difference - most teach what they know: which can sometimes be good or bad.  The day you stop learning is the day you need to find something else to do.

I'm real big into flexibility ... mainly because I hate to think that you know where I'm fixing to line up on any given play.

I'm also real big into designing defenses around what you do in a particular set.  Some people are scared of that.  Where there's teaching there's learning.

I'm also real big in comparative advantage.  That's why people who do things different have always fascinated me as I try to understand the what's and why's.

Comparative advantage really boils down to the clock.  Your opponents may have better facilities, better support, better kids, etc. ... but the one thing everybody has the same is the number of hours in the day ... and the bunch who makes better use of that can make up a lot of ground in a hurry.  And that centers around THEM having to figure out and then teach what they are going to do in response to that special thing you do.

By comparative advantage I mean - if you are the only one who does something and everybody has to completely change what they are doing to adhere to your system for the week you play them, then I think you hold an advantage.  I believe that is why you see people returning to the Slot and Wing T's in this Spread dominated world.  Many people who face all spread teams build their defense to stop spread teams.  Then along comes a Wing or Pro I and those small, quick inside LBers in your 4-2-5 that can defend the spread with large lineman in their two point stance, are now faced with dealing with large guards running downhill.  That's a big change.  Don''t do it just because it's different, do it because it fits your kids.

Running a straight five or 4-3, or Split is good if you can go across the front saying my nose is better than your center, my LBers are better than your Guards, my Tackles are better than your tackles, my Ends are better than you Tight Ends, etc.  If not, then you have to look at the game plan differently.

I think a lot of DC run what I call the "Plain-Oles" because someone has already figured out all the adjustment rules .... motion, unbalanced, slants, stunts, etc. ... no thinking here. Maybe that's best.

But I'll say again ... I don't want you to know where I'm going to be.

And as long as it's sound ... it ain't the defense it's the kids ... and all you can do is put them into a system, that you can teach, where they have a chance to be successful at making the plays

But, don't mind me ... I'm just the 260 lbs old, old coach in the room.

 

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1 hour ago, DOB said:

Have been both OC and DC, from 2A to 6A as First Asst back in the Seventies and Eighties ... was lucky enough to work both sides of the ball when I was young (nothing like seeing things from both perspectives - too many young coaches specialize too early to one side of the ball or the other)

And was around some really good X's and O's people who loved to argue with the chalk.  I loved that and soaked it all in.  The key there is not being in a really big hurry to be the first coach out the door following workouts.  Coaching on grass is just half the profession.

Have a son who is a HC and everytime he sees he coming he rolls his eyes and hides all the scratch pads.

Defense has definitely changed ... I have pretty much run all the different ones and the real challenge is being able to determine which one is best for your KIDS.

Some people take a defense and uses their KIDS to build into it ... Others take their KIDS and build the defense around them.  There's a big difference - most teach what they know: which can sometimes be good or bad.  The day you stop learning is the day you need to find something else to do.

I'm real big into flexibility ... mainly because I hate to think that you know where I'm fixing to line up on any given play.

I'm also real big into designing defenses around what you do in a particular set.  Some people are scared of that.  Where there's teaching there's learning.

I'm also real big in comparative advantage.  That's why people who do things different have always fascinated me as I try to understand the what's and why's.

Comparative advantage really boils down to the clock.  Your opponents may have better facilities, better support, better kids, etc. ... but the one thing everybody has the same is the number of hours in the day ... and the bunch who makes better use of that can make up a lot of ground in a hurry.  And that centers around THEM having to figure out and then teach what they are going to do in response to that special thing you do.

By comparative advantage I mean - if you are the only one who does something and everybody has to completely change what they are doing to adhere to your system for the week you play them, then I think you hold an advantage.  I believe that is why you see people returning to the Slot and Wing T's in this Spread dominated world.  Many people who face all spread teams build their defense to stop spread teams.  Then along comes a Wing or Pro I and those small, quick inside LBers in your 4-2-5 that can defend the spread with large lineman in their two point stance, are now faced with dealing with large guards running downhill.  That's a big change.  Don''t do it just because it's different, do it because it fits your kids.

Running a straight five or 4-3, or Split is good if you can go across the front saying my nose is better than your center, my LBers are better than your Guards, my Tackles are better than your tackles, my Ends are better than you Tight Ends, etc.  If not, then you have to look at the game plan differently.

I think a lot of DC run what I call the "Plain-Oles" because someone has already figured out all the adjustment rules .... motion, unbalanced, slants, stunts, etc. ... no thinking here. Maybe that's best.

But I'll say again ... I don't want you to know where I'm going to be.

And as long as it's sound ... it ain't the defense it's the kids ... and all you can do is put them into a system, that you can teach, where they have a chance to be successful at making the plays

But, don't mind me ... I'm just the 260 lbs old, old coach in the room.

 

I'm thoroughly enjoying this really. I love learning all the terminology, positions, looks, tendencies, and what's needed to stop certain formations.

Being a coach has actually been a dream of mine since high school. I just have too much at stake and on the line to leave what I'm doing and where I'm at to attempt to persue such a career. I still love to know as much about it as I can though. It could definitely help too when my own son starts getting into football (though we have a few years). 

Thank you for sharing your knowledge of the game with us. You will never see me ask you to stop. I'm always looking to learn more about the game.

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6 minutes ago, blackflag79 said:

That's some good stuff right there?  I need to sit by you at a game just once, DOB.  I'll definitely feel like a student again around you.

That's what I'm saying. Breaking down the game in such a manner is astounding. It's really a treat to see him post all of this. With his son being a HC, I can see why he'd hide all of the scratch pads! I feel like DOB could talk for days on the different looks and solutions. That's what makes a great coach though. Never stop trying to find a solution or better way. You're never too good to improve. 

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11 minutes ago, H3llR4z0r said:

It could definitely help too when my own son starts getting into football (though we have a few years). 

I can honestly say that there was no better joy in all my years of coaching than coaching my own son.

Now, that being said - Since I was always on his case, I'm pretty sure he remembers it differently.

And his Mom would cringe at him always having to call me "Coach Barker" ...

 

Part 2:  From a message ....

I never said I didn't like the 5-2 defense ....

But over the years, I had the opportunity and honor to sit down and visit with some of the best Five coaches in the state at that time ....

All of them, in one form or another, made this statement:

"There's nothing better than a good five ... and nothing worse than a bad one."

If you got the Hosses - go for it ....

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