Carthage vs Waco La Vega at The Star Friday, December 15, 2017 at 7:30 PM

[HearEmaGrowlin]

4 minutes ago, Eagleborn said:

Damn, Carthage folks.... Calm down. The man was giving his opinion. 

Be thankful he’s over here to give y’all someone to talk to instead of telling each other how great y’all are. 

True

[BigFanOf22]

3 minutes ago, BulldogBacker12 said:

I think most were agreeing with everything he said. I got no problem with any of it. All the people picking these 45-21 scores are way off in my opinion. La Vega might steam roll Carthage. But Williams = Surratt? 

I've been wrong before just ask my wife, lol.

[CarthDawg77]

4 minutes ago, HearEmaGrowlin said:

True

 

4 minutes ago, HearEmaGrowlin said:

True

We're just spectators; Surratt, Preston, Smih and the rest of the coaches & players are Great...👌

[Sportsfanatic1]

10 minutes ago, BulldogBacker12 said:

I don't think anybody knows. Neither team has really...I mean really been tested. We going to find out in a couple days. 

^^I agree 100%. Thanks BB12.

I think what's happening is there are some people "hoping" that they are not as good. In other words, they are hoping for somewhat of a walk over (easy game). Like you said who knows it may be.

[BigFanOf22]

Question Mark Bell Good Coach?  He has never won a title taken many team deep in the playoffs in his 30 year at CS.  Surratt has been loaded in the time he has been there Maybe the coach before just didn't take advantage of the opportunities given to him.  Williams,  Bell and now Hulme are probably the best coaches in the region.  Surratt is a great coach and has taken full advantage of the talent he was given no doubt about that.  He has a great offense mind and makes great adjustment.  But if you can't say he hasn't had talent in those 10 years. Give Carthage talent to any of these coaches over the past 10 years and I bet they have at least 4 titles.  

[CarthDawg77]

4 minutes ago, coachkells said:

I've been wrong before just ask my wife, lol.

How well I know THAT feeling! .... If I may digress back to an earlier point I made upthread regarding Stats, Ranking, etc.... Many things are taken into consideration when ranking teams across the state; things like Strength of Schedule, scores, records & such... Carthage is ranked much higher than LV by people are not 'homers'... Of Course any team can have a bad game anytime; That's why they play the game.🤔

[BigFanOf22]

Anyone know what Carthage (non district) schedule looks like next year?  Heard a rumor, I sure hope it's true..

[SmoakyBandito]

16 minutes ago, coachkells said:

Question Mark Bell Good Coach?  He has never won a title taken many team deep in the playoffs in his 30 year at CS.  Surratt has been loaded in the time he has been there Maybe the coach before just didn't take advantage of the opportunities given to him.  Williams,  Bell and now Hulme are probably the best coaches in the region.  Surratt is a great coach and has taken full advantage of the talent he was given no doubt about that.  He has a great offense mind and makes great adjustment.  But if you can't say he hasn't had talent in those 10 years. Give Carthage talent to any coach over the past 10 years and I bet they have at least 4 titles.  

Bell and Williams are 2 of the best coaches in this division. Nobody is disputing that. But we are talking about a top 5-6 coach in the state in any class when talking about Surratt. 

And everybody here can attest. You are wrong about any coach winning with Carthage's talent. The talent at Carthage hasn't changed in 50 years. Some people will argue the talent was better in the 90's. Carthage dropped from 4a to 3a in 2002. Last 2 years they went 2-18 in 4a. That team in 2002 went 7-5 and arguably had a top 3 defense since then. Then we went on a mediocre run of 1-2 round playoff seasons (heck a couple years we didn't even make the playoffs) until Surratt showed up in 2007. That was with players like Edwards, Beechum, Beechum, Teague, and plenty of other D1 level players. Those teams were having to over come coaching to win games. So it's false what you are saying. 

[Wise1]

Proverbs 16:18 - Pride goeth before destruction, and a haughty spirit before a fall.

Let's hope the young men playing the game this week display real sportsmanship, win or lose, and let's pray for no injuries.

 

[dean1345]

1 hour ago, DawgNation2015 said:

Ingram was the difference in the Navasota game.  He gave us the run threat we did not have against LV.  Silsbee has no defense and we threw for over 400 yards and six TD’s against them.  LV would have probably still beat us in 2015.  They were just that good.  My point is the score would not have been 39-3.  LV is not the same animal in 2017 as they were in 2015.  Carthage is far better in 2017 than we were at this point in 2015.

Just wanted to point out that Navasota lost three all staters from the previous year before the Rattlers played Carthage. Pretty tough to overcome that no matter what. Ingram is the heart and soul of the Carthage offense. If he was lost to an injury it would have been very hard for Carthage to repeat. Coach Surratt was smart sitting Ingram when they had a substantial lead.

[BigFanOf22]

4 minutes ago, CarthDawg77 said:

How well I know THAT feeling! .... If I may digress back to an earlier point I made upthread regarding Stats, Ranking, etc.... Many things are taken into consideration when ranking teams across the state; things like Strength of Schedule, scores, records & such... Carthage is ranked much higher than LV by people are not 'homers'... Of Course any team can have a bad game anytime; That's why they play the game.🤔

Carthage won state last year and have been ranked #1 ever since and you deserve to be.   La Vega was #1 last year till they lost to CS.  Kind of how things roll in this state it all a guessing game. No common opponents it hard to tell.  Stats will tell us who is good at doing whatever it is that they do.  I would rank you # 1 no reason not to, eye test shows you guys are a league above everyone you have played so far this year.   

[Eagleborn]

29 minutes ago, CarthDawg77 said:

 

We're just spectators; Surratt, Preston, Smih and the rest of the coaches & players are Great...👌

So much I could say here but nah. 

[SmoakyBandito]

5 minutes ago, dean1345 said:

Just wanted to point out that Navasota lost three all staters from the previous year before the Rattlers played Carthage. Pretty tough to overcome that no matter what. Ingram is the heart and soul of the Carthage offense. If he was lost to an injury it would have been very hard for Carthage to repeat. Coach Surratt was smart sitting Ingram when they had a substantial lead.

Navasota did not have a defense and Carthage didn't have much of one that year either. Those 2 teams gutted each other. Was fun to watch, but it would make some coaches cringe. That was still one of the best wins in the history of the Carthage program. No matter what Sota was #1 and on a huge winning streak. Up near 30 if I remember correctly. Great win in the history of the Carthage program regardless if the 2 teams played any defense or not.

And that was the week we were really introduced to a now almost famous teenager Keaontay Ingram.  

[BigFanOf22]

17 minutes ago, BulldogBacker12 said:

Bell and Williams are 2 of the best coaches in this division. Nobody is disputing that. But we are talking about a top 5-6 coach in the state in any class when talking about Surratt. 

And everybody here can attest. You are wrong about any coach winning with Carthage's talent. The talent at Carthage hasn't changed in 50 years. Some people will argue the talent was better in the 90's. Carthage dropped from 4a to 3a in 2002. That team went 7-5 and arguably had a better defense than this years team. Then we went on a mediocre run of 1-2 round playoff seasons (heck a couple year we didn't even make the playoffs) uniltil Surratt showed up in 2007. That was with players like Edwards, Beechum, Beechum, Teague, and plenty of other D1 level players. So it's false what you are saying. 

Then do you win state last year with out Ingram, are you 14-0 without Ingram this year.  That a fair question if you say that it not about the talent that he has had.  Ill take Ingram in a heartbeat.  I coached against Aledo and Johnathan Gray don't tell me talent doesn't make a difference.  

[PantherNation2015]

34 minutes ago, DTrump said:

Just curious, how do you know that to be a fact? And please don't bring Cobb and Benson being gone as a reasoning.

The 2015 game was a matchup problem for Carthage in many respects because we could not run the ball.  Our backup to Ingram was a North/South back.  He did not have the speed to go outside or get to second level.  The LV D line stuffed the run between the tackles.  Without Ingram we were forced to play into one of LV’s strengths which was their secondary headlined by..........Cobb & Benson.  On D we were without one of our starting LB’s (Brown) as well as two DL that were in the 260-280 range, one of which was the defensive MVP in the SC game in 2016 and is playing on Sat now.  We were undersized and outmanned in the trenches.

Fast forward to 2017 and you have a much different matchup.  We are healthy!  Carthage has a more balanced running game allowing us to run inside or outside the tackles.  We also have three WR’s to account for that are all capable of taking it to the house and a TE who can catch the ball as well as block.  LV does not have the same skill level in the secondary that they did in 2015.  The current DB’s are good, but not great.

On D the 2017 Dawgs are much more athletic than we were in 2015.  They swarm to the ball.  We have adequate size but it’s the quickness off the ball that will be the difference.  Our LB trio is as solid as you will find in all of 4A and our secondary has shown they can get takeaways with 15 INT’s between them.

I have been consistent from Sat morning that this was going to be a defensive ballgame.  Unless one team implodes with unforced errors, neither team scores 30.  The winner wins by single digits.  It should be the game we all hoped 2015 would be and more.  Both teams have been on everyone’s radar all year.  Neither is an unknown.  It’s 2015 SC vs the 2016 SC for a chance to play for the 2017 SC.  What else could we as fans ask for?

[SmoakyBandito]

20 minutes ago, coachkells said:

Then do you win state last year with out Ingram, are you 14-0 without Ingram this year.  That a fair question if you say that it not about the talent that he has had.  Ill take Ingram in a heartbeat.  I coached against Aledo and Johnathan Gray don't tell me talent doesn't make a difference.  

We are getting mixed up here. No I don't think Surratt wins without Ingram. Carthage is loaded 8 out of 10 years with talent. The talent pool is the same. I am saying other coaches cannot win titles with Carthage talent because they didn't do it before with the same talent Surratt has had. This is the problem with TXHSFB. It's so big we don't know a lot about each other outside of our programs from our own regions. Carthage is a RB factory. Always has been. Difference is they weren't winning so no D1 programs were calling. It's not a coincidence Carthage started having D1 talent after they started winning titles. I can name 3 other RB from the last 15 years that would be getting the same hype as Ingram was Carthage in that situation the .

[HearEmaGrowlin]

30 minutes ago, Wise1 said:

Proverbs 16:18 - Pride goeth before destruction, and a haughty spirit before a fall.

Let's hope the young men playing the game this week display real sportsmanship, win or lose, and let's pray for no injuries.

 

Hear hear

[CarthDawg77]

39 minutes ago, coachkells said:

Anyone know what Carthage (non district) schedule looks like next year?  Heard a rumor, I sure hope it's true..

I have heard the DOD "might" pick up the Van Vandals... is this the rumor you've heard?

[SmoakyBandito]

Imagine Kris Briggs, Ray King, Jamon Edwards, or Bo Beecham in Surratts offense. We already know what Ingram and Smith did. 

[Eagleborn]

1 minute ago, CarthDawg77 said:

I have the DOD "might" pick up the Van Vandals... is this the rumor you've heard?

He said non district. 

[Eagleborn]

1 minute ago, BulldogBacker12 said:

Imagine Kris Briggs, Ray King, Jamon Edwards, or Bo Beecham in Surratts offense. We already know what Ingram and Smith did. 

Teague?

[CarthDawg77]

Just now, Eagleborn said:

He said non district. 

Oh... my bad! Carry on!😜

[SmoakyBandito]

1 minute ago, Eagleborn said:

Teague?

Yes! Many others. I'm just going off the top of my head. Teague was ridiculous and wasn't even a true RB. RB has never been a problem. Think about Holland and the all time rushing leader Pipkin. The talent is almost always there. 

[Sportsfanatic1]

18 minutes ago, DawgNation2015 said:

The 2015 game was a matchup problem for Carthage in many respects because we could not run the ball.  Our backup to Ingram was a North/South back.  He did not have the speed to go outside or get to second level.  The LV D line stuffed the run between the tackles.  Without Ingram we were forced to play into one of LV’s strengths which was their secondary headlined by..........Cobb & Benson.  On D we were without one of our starting LB’s (Brown) as well as two DL that were in the 260-280 range, one of which was the defensive MVP in the SC game in 2016 and is playing on Sat now.  We were undersized and outmanned in the trenches.

Fast forward to 2017 and you have a much different matchup.  We are healthy!  Carthage has a more balanced running game allowing us to run inside or outside the tackles.  We also have three WR’s to account for that are all capable of taking it to the house and a TE who can catch the ball as well as block.  LV does not have the same skill level in the secondary that they did in 2015.  The current DB’s are good, but not great.

On D the 2017 Dawgs are much more athletic than we were in 2015.  They swarm to the ball.  We have adequate size but it’s the quickness off the ball that will be the difference.  Our LB trio is as solid as you will find in all of 4A and our secondary has shown they can get takeaways with 15 INT’s between them.

I have been consistent from Sat morning that this was going to be a defensive ballgame.  Unless one team implodes with unforced errors, neither team scores 30.  The winner wins by single digits.  It should be the game we all hoped 2015 would be and more.  Both teams have been on everyone’s radar all year.  Neither is an unknown.  It’s 2015 SC vs the 2016 SC for a chance to play for the 2017 SC.  What else could we as fans ask for?

Sorry, this is more about how "good" Carthage is this year than the question asked, how do you know for a FACT that LV isn't as good as the 15 team? 

How do you know for a FACT that the 17 secondary as a whole is not as good as the Cobb-Benson secondary of 15?

[BigFanOf22]

21 minutes ago, BulldogBacker12 said:

Imagine Kris Briggs, Ray King, Jamon Edwards, or Bo Beecham in Surratts offense. We already know what Ingram and Smith did. 

I know, I miss spoke when I said any coach meant any of the coaches we were talking about.