East Texas Large School Football

[JTFAN99]

1 hour ago, ANTI said:

No its not. They are facing schools of their same stature and socio economics. There is no disparity on the small school level that there is on the 5A and 6A levels. Carthage facing Argyle is much different from Longview facing Allen despite Argyle and Allen both being burbs. The disparity between Longview and Allen is much larger than between Carhage and Argyle. Hell, there is no disparity between the two.

So they may be beating teams on their level, that's cool. But they don't have the disparities especially socially that 5A and 6A schools do...which is why it makes no sense to compare small school success vs big school success. That's the real apples to oranges. They simply don't have to deal with even half the things 5A and 6A programs do, especially non suburban 5A and 6A programs.

Mathias is spot on and gets it.

I actually agree with what Mathias said.  The part that I disagree with you about was your opinion that the small schools aren't playing tough schools.  Just because Sam Houston ain't playing Bama doesn't mean their schedule isn't tough.  Playing Argyle, Gilmer, Henderson, West Orange, Celina, La Vega is equivalent to playing DeSoto, SLC, Lake Travis etc at the 4a level.

The difference is that for the small schools, they are almost on a equal playing field in terms of athletes, facilities, coaching, etc....  But that doesn't mean its a cake walk for Carthage.

However I do agree at the 6a level, the gap in terms of athletes, facilities, coaching, etc...is much larger for Big East TX schools.  In the past, the East TX schools could compete at highest division because the the inner cities had the athlete advantage, but not the facilities and coaching advantage....and the  burbs only had an advantage in money, but not athletes and coaching. Now the inner cities have mostly drop to 5a and 4a and the Burbs have the advantage with all of the above as more people have moved in. 

I think Longview and Lufkin proved East Texas can still compete, but its not going to be this way in the long run.  At 5a, I think it puts the East Texas schools on a more even playing field like Carthage.  I think the current coaches are good, but if the big East TX schools had elite coaches like they had in the past, they could compete as well.

[JTFAN99]

29 minutes ago, Eagleborn said:

I did not know Cantrell went to WH because of Katrina. 

I was talking about Metoyer...but I think I got him mixed up with another player...my bad..lol

[ANTI]

23 minutes ago, JTFAN99 said:

I actually agree with what Mathias said.  The part that I disagree with you about was your opinion that the small schools aren't playing tough schools.  

To the level of toughness that the big schools are facing?

[JTFAN99]

5 minutes ago, ANTI said:

To the level of toughness that the big schools are facing?

probably not.

But I have a question for you...Do you think the Big schools could do more to close the gap? You pay for what you get.  Look at what Surratt makes, You think Tyler could offer a top coach that salary.  Also, TISD doesn't have indoor facilities, but they do at Carthage.   Maybe East TX could do more to close the gap with the big cities.  Midway is winning and I wouldn't say Waco is much different than Tyler or Longview.

[JTFAN99]

1 hour ago, NATUREBOY98 said:

I may be coming across as a dumb dumb, but what does socioeconomics have to do with fielding an athletic team. I know a lot of rich kids that the only muscles they have is in their thumbs from playing PlayStation all day. I know they have great facilities, but really weights are weights. We used to look like we were working on our cars coming out of the old weight room. Covered in rust. We have a great weight room now and the kids are soft. A/C and water fountains are overrated lol. 

man this can go a long ways.  Having indoor facilities, better coaching staff....parents can send kids to camps or to athlete training facilities to get specialized and personal training.  And lifting weights is much more effective with personal trainers and strength and conditioning coaches.   But again, having better coaching staff is something that is very important.

And I'm not going to discuss how the economics at certain places can attract better players...legally or illegally...lol.

[Sportsfanatic1]

8 minutes ago, JTFAN99 said:

man this can go a long ways.  Having indoor facilities, better coaching staff....parents can send kids to camps or to athlete training facilities to get specialized and personal training.  And lifting weights is much more effective with personal trainers and strength and conditioning coaches.   But again, having better coaching staff is something that is very important.

And I'm not going to discuss how the economics at certain places can attract better players...legally or illegally...lol.

Highland Park and Lake Travis are prime examples. 

[cotton84]

2 hours ago, NATUREBOY98 said:

I may be coming across as a dumb dumb, but what does socioeconomics have to do with fielding an athletic team. I know a lot of rich kids that the only muscles they have is in their thumbs from playing PlayStation all day. I know they have great facilities, but really weights are weights. We used to look like we were working on our cars coming out of the old weight room. Covered in rust. We have a great weight room now and the kids are soft. A/C and water fountains are overrated lol. 

Let’s assume you have identical twins, separated at birth, and both good athletes with the capability of getting really strong and pretty fast......one lives with adopted parents whose annual income is $500,000 - he has available to him a fitness gym with top notch trainers........the other lives with his adoptive mom who makes $25,000 a year, so he works at Whataburger as many hours as he can. 

Which one do you think will be in the best shape next August?

And I know there are always exceptions. 

[SmoakyBandito]

Coaching is a huge part of why ETX big schools don't compete in the higher classes. Look at Longview. They have a great coach, and they are very successful. Agree it's tougher in the higher classes. But it's not like Longview couldn't have played in a ship this year. Midway doesn't have a huge advantage in any way over Longview. Longview should've won that game. So that would tell me that Lufkin would have been right there with Midway, and could've beat them too. Texas High played HP to a 7 point game. JT has always had success in 5a, where they are moving back down to. So when you look at it there are just not many big school teams that are considered football schools in ETX. Most it seems like they could care less if they win or not. 

Then on the other hand there are a ton of small schools in this area. And a big majority of those schools are all in for their football programs. But it's not like ETX schools are winning everything in the smaller classes. Only 2 ETX teams won a state title this year. And both were in 4a. But every part of Texas (except maybe South) has excellent smaller class programs as well. It's not like ETX has a monopoly on small school ball.

[SmoakyBandito]

For 4a (old 3a) programs in this area we have been in the golden age the last 10-12 years. We had some good football schools drop down from higher classes. We just so happened to have 2 elite programs with elite coaches in a very close proximity of each other. All the success they were having made all the other programs in the area raise their game. It just kind of all came together at the same time. But that is the only division where ETX is the most dominant in the state.

[ANTI]

6 hours ago, NATUREBOY98 said:

I may be coming across as a dumb dumb, but what does socioeconomics have to do with fielding an athletic team.

[Nacwagons]

21 hours ago, JTFAN99 said:

I was talking about Metoyer...but I think I got him mixed up with another player...my bad..lol

Metoyer was with Brady Attaway, Dillon Cantrell was with Mahomes.

[SmoakyBandito]

What is a realistic expectation for Lufkin and JT dropping down this year? Couple years ago JT was making deep runs in the same class. Lufkin played in the Quarter-Final this year in 6a. Manvel and Aledo are DII. You have College Station and HP in DI. What is the expectation? Seems like QF, Semis, or even playing for a title should be real expectations. Is this realistic? 

[Coach Rab]

On 1/6/2018 at 3:11 PM, cujoforlife said:

In the last ten years East Texas Large school has taken a step back to East Texas Small school football. In the last two years not one 5a school out of east Texas has made it out of the first round. Since 08 only two Large schools has made a real stab at making it to state and that is John Tyler and Longview. Longview with two state championship appearances and two semifinal appearances. John Tyler with two quarterfinal appearances and three semifinal appearances. Now it seem like small school East Texas is now the talk of the state whereas the big schools use to be. Smaller schools in east Texas has won more state championships then bigger schools ever has in back in their hay day. 

Why is that thoughts?

 

This one feels easy for me... In East Texas, you generally live where you earn your bread and you stay there.  However, with the decline of education in the larger schools or at least the perception of lesser education and safety at the larger towns in ETX (Marshall, Longview, Tyler, Texarkana, Lufkin, Nac), you see schools that benefit from the parents choosing the "safer better school" with a "winning tradition."  

So think of this, in the 80s and 90s, Marshall, Longview, Tyler, and Texarkana stayed loaded with talent.  People didn't live in Carthage, EF, and Waskom and work in Marshall.  They lived and worked there.  Same for Longview, and look at some of the "safer suburbs" that leech off of that.  

However, you also have to consider my list up there... We have maybe 10 schools that we can consider "large" East Texas football... then you have Dallas and Houston and SA, and Ft Worth... There aren't many schools smaller than 4A out here in the metro... 

Also in DFW/Houston/etc... you basically can pick your school district if you can afford it.  We live in Aledo, and we see people with children buying new properties out here daily.  Housing less than $300k is not listed more than a few days before it goes off of the market.  Now where do these Aledo people work?  Ft Worth, Arlington, Granbury, Weatherford, etc etc etc... So why Aledo?  It's an easy drive with a reputation of a great education and a winning tradition... In ETX that reputation exists solely in the smaller schools, and in DFW you can find plenty of larger schools that will attract those same type of people.

[JTFAN99]

8 hours ago, Nacwagons said:

Metoyer was with Brady Attaway, Dillon Cantrell was with Mahomes.

Yes, I was aware of that. My point about WH is that the only time they had a team good enough to beat JT was when they played JT close when Metoyer was there and then again when Mahomes was there.

[cujoforlife]

6 hours ago, MavGrad99 said:

This one feels easy for me... In East Texas, you generally live where you earn your bread and you stay there.  However, with the decline of education in the larger schools or at least the perception of lesser education and safety at the larger towns in ETX (Marshall, Longview, Tyler, Texarkana, Lufkin, Nac), you see schools that benefit from the parents choosing the "safer better school" with a "winning tradition."  

So think of this, in the 80s and 90s, Marshall, Longview, Tyler, and Texarkana stayed loaded with talent.  People didn't live in Carthage, EF, and Waskom and work in Marshall.  They lived and worked there.  Same for Longview, and look at some of the "safer suburbs" that leech off of that.  

However, you also have to consider my list up there... We have maybe 10 schools that we can consider "large" East Texas football... then you have Dallas and Houston and SA, and Ft Worth... There aren't many schools smaller than 4A out here in the metro... 

Also in DFW/Houston/etc... you basically can pick your school district if you can afford it.  We live in Aledo, and we see people with children buying new properties out here daily.  Housing less than $300k is not listed more than a few days before it goes off of the market.  Now where do these Aledo people work?  Ft Worth, Arlington, Granbury, Weatherford, etc etc etc... So why Aledo?  It's an easy drive with a reputation of a great education and a winning tradition... In ETX that reputation exists solely in the smaller schools, and in DFW you can find plenty of larger schools that will attract those same type of people.

It’s getting harder to find a job that pays $12 and up in Tyler. That’s why people are moving to Dallas.

[ANTI]

9 hours ago, BulldogBacker12 said:

What is a realistic expectation for Lufkin and JT dropping down this year? Couple years ago JT was making deep runs in the same class. Lufkin played in the Quarter-Final this year in 6a. Manvel and Aledo are DII. You have College Station and HP in DI. What is the expectation? Seems like QF, Semis, or even playing for a title should be real expectations. Is this realistic? 

I don't see why either shouldn't make playoff runs. Anything short of quarters (really semis) would be dissapointing IMO.

Both are returning experience to make  5a runs.

[cujoforlife]

This was the last long playoff run in 5a  before moving back up to 6a than going three rounds deep.

 

https://www.nfhsnetwork.com/events/uil/183160d96e

[BACKnBLACK]

On ‎1‎/‎7‎/‎2018 at 2:31 PM, cujoforlife said:

Looking at last few seasons JT really hasn’t played tough teams would get them ready. Plano West did nothing for JT Ennis was up and down all season. The first game of District, they got beat like a red headed stepchild.

Just to clarify, That was JT who was beat like a red headed stepchild. Ennis will NEVER be beat like a red headed stepchild

[LoboFan07]

11 minutes ago, BACKnBLACK said:

Just to clarify, That was JT who was beat like a red headed stepchild. Ennis will NEVER be beat like a red headed stepchild

You’re literally like 6 years removed from losing 52-27 to bloody Red Oak...

[cujoforlife]

8 hours ago, BACKnBLACK said:

Just to clarify, That was JT who was beat like a red headed stepchild. Ennis will NEVER be beat like a red headed stepchild

I was talking about JT losing to Rockwall this season. I wasn’t talking about Ennis in that sentence.

[Eagleborn]

12 minutes ago, NATUREBOY98 said:

Haven’t been on here in awhile. Kinda fitting you put a kid in a Cavs jersey. Guessing it’ll be a LeBron jersey. LeBron comes from Akron Ohio. One of the poorest areas in the country. Didn’t seem to have an effect on King James though. 

Didn’t his mom pretty much let him live with a better off family?

[HearEmaGrowlin]

On 1/9/2018 at 12:08 AM, cujoforlife said:

It’s getting harder to find a job that pays $12 and up in Tyler. That’s why people are moving to Dallas.

He bad, but no MJ.

[WildcatPride]

On 1/7/2018 at 1:22 PM, BulldogBacker12 said:

"... But there is no reason they cannot be successful. The problem is they don't want to be successful at Whitehouse. They don't wanna do the things that make you successful. They would rather have a good band. Which is ok if that's what they want. But they could have a winning program if they wanted. They are already an above .500 team over the last 10 - 12 years. And that is without trying very hard IMO. "

What else do you think Whitehouse should be doing? 

[Mavchamp]

I think Marshall and Whitehouse finish 1/2.  Nac, Jax, Hallsville,  Abd PT battle it out for the other two playoff spots. 

I think MP and Lindale struggle. 

The real question is can anyone get a playoff win? 

[Pack007]

On 1/8/2018 at 3:23 PM, BulldogBacker12 said:

What is a realistic expectation for Lufkin and JT dropping down this year? Couple years ago JT was making deep runs in the same class. Lufkin played in the Quarter-Final this year in 6a. Manvel and Aledo are DII. You have College Station and HP in DI. What is the expectation? Seems like QF, Semis, or even playing for a title should be real expectations. Is this realistic? 

Honestly, not sure. Coaching isn’t that great at Lufkin and we’re losing several key players on both sides of the ball (mostly offense). So again, not sure. I think It will depend mostly on injuries, how well our Qb plays next season, defense continuing to do what they did last season and who we’ll matchup against in the playoffs. There will be HP, Lone Star, JT and several other good teams in 5A D1 R2 with us. I’m hoping that we can make another run, but I’ve learned to just enjoy the ride though. No real expectations from me, until i see us next season and the guys that will fill certain key positions. Also special teams....goodness. They were horrible against Longview.