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Can a small school coach make the jump to a big school?


Mr. P

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2 hours ago, AKA said:

Did any go straight from small school (1A through 4A) to 5A-6A? 

I thought the question was making the immediate jump from small school to big school? Someone like Keeling going from Waskom to Marshall, for example. 

Obviously most successful 5A/6A coaches are gonna have had a variety of experience, many (like you mentioned) maybe getting their first HC gig at a small school. But count me among those who are curious about coaches making the direct leap from small to big, without at least some transition in 5A/6A as an assistant or coordinator. 

Keeling has been at bigger schools prior to taking over Waskom. 

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2 hours ago, AKA said:

Did any go straight from small school (1A through 4A) to 5A-6A? 

I thought the question was making the immediate jump from small school to big school? Someone like Keeling going from Waskom to Marshall, for example. 

Obviously most successful 5A/6A coaches are gonna have had a variety of experience, many (like you mentioned) maybe getting their first HC gig at a small school. But count me among those who are curious about coaches making the direct leap from small to big, without at least some transition in 5A/6A as an assistant or coordinator. 

I remember people thinking that Waskom was crazy when they hired a soccer coach to be the AD / head football coach. 

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44 minutes ago, DB2point0 said:

Did you watch Cy-Fair?  Nothing fancy as far as x’s and o’s.  Only threw the ball 15 times.  Just lined up and ran the ball down midway’s throat.  

 

The carthage offense isn’t simplistic.  In fact it was prolly the most multiple and diverse of all the teams there that weekend.  I think they were just as if not more talented than your beloved Aledo too.  

What the hell are you talking about?  Did you even read my post?  

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3 hours ago, DOB said:

I've been from 6A to 2A ... at each level, the speed and collisions increase ... it's amazing by how much.

Generally found that the higher you go, the less impactual you get because number separations and disparity can get you.

And it's harder to out-coach people/staffs the higher you go ... you do reach a level where everybody's staff is decent ...

Simply put from a staff perspective ... at 3A two good-uns can get you by ... at 4A it takes three ... at 5A, four ... 6A you best have three on each side of the ball.

Some small school climbers make it ... some don't ... too many variables involved to set any theory in stone.

I can say that large schools are different - going from, let's say 300 to 2100 - issues don't multiply equally in that ratio, they extend out expotentially ....

I don't think anyone believes its not different....and you can say possibly tougher to go from a small school to a big school. But that wasn't the point of this thread. A couple guys (ANTI and MAVChamp) basically said that if Mathis is somehow not at Marshall anymore, they shouldn't hire anyone from a small school.   IMO, that is very narrow minded, because several great coaches have come from small schools, and Marshall could be missing out on a Todd Dodge, or John Outlaw, etc. 

But as I acknowledge its tough to move up in classes, its also tough to move down in classes. At a big school, you have a larger staff. You may have a RB coach, a LB coach, etc. At a small school, you have to coach 3 or 4 positions and be the Head Coach.  So it can have issues in a different way too.  And not to mention the pros and cons of a small town atmosphere. 

All I am saying, is that being a Head Coach at any level is tough....But if you are great, you can figure it out at ANY level and there are several examples that prove this.

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3 hours ago, AKA said:

Did any go straight from small school (1A through 4A) to 5A-6A? 

I thought the question was making the immediate jump from small school to big school? Someone like Keeling going from Waskom to Marshall, for example. 

Obviously most successful 5A/6A coaches are gonna have had a variety of experience, many (like you mentioned) maybe getting their first HC gig at a small school. But count me among those who are curious about coaches making the direct leap from small to big, without at least some transition in 5A/6A as an assistant or coordinator. 

Malesky and Wasson, went from a small school to coordinator, before landing a big school head coaching job.

Todd Dodge, Kirk Martin, Randy Allen, Ryan Roark, Chris Melson and Phil Danaher went directly from a small school head coach to a large school head coach.

Steve Huff was hard to figure, because he coached out of state, but it looks like he had a bunch of small school head coaching jobs, then he became a coordinator at big school in TX, then he took a big school job in Oklahoma before coming back to Texas. His timeline is a little fuzzy based on the articles I could find.

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2 hours ago, HearEmaGrowlin said:

 If Longview had Surratt they’d have at least four titles right now or more. 

And this is the dumb sh#%+ that I'm talking about that completely sets me off. Ignorant comments like this.

How do you know this?

Name the years.

Can't wait to hear this.

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2 minutes ago, ANTI said:

This is the dumb sh#%+ that I'm talking about that completely sets me off.

How do you know this?

Name the years.

Can't wait to hear this.

I have an idea

his playoff record, he’s 5-0 in title games, when beat in the playoffs it’s been because the other team was better.

 

ive seen Carthage play a lot of playoff games.  While they may have lost a couple games I’ve never seen the get out coached or pull a choke job.  

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4 minutes ago, DB2point0 said:

I have an idea

his playoff record, he’s 5-0 in title games, when beat in the playoffs it’s been because the other team was better.

 

ive seen Carthage play a lot of playoff games.  While they may have lost a couple games I’ve never seen the get out coached or pull a choke job.  

Stop dodging the question.

Which years do Longview win state with Surratt as HC?

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Do I think small school coaches can win in the large classifications? 

YES.  We’ve seen it happen before.

BUT... by and large, most struggle if they make a big jump all at once.  We see that a lot more often.  

Most that have had success at both levels moved up the classification ladder slowly.  Learned the nuances of each.  

So no..... I would be skeptical of a 2A or 3A coach jumping to 5A or 6A.  I’d want to see them inch up and win at each.  

But let me throw this out there too.....  I think 5A and 6A coaches would struggle at the 2A and 3A level for the SAME reasons.  They don’t know the nuances of small school ball.  

Jmho  

 

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7 minutes ago, Mavchamp said:

Do I think small school coaches can win in the large classifications? 

YES.  We’ve seen it happen before.

BUT... by and large, most struggle if they make a big jump all at once.  We see that a lot more often.  

Most that have had success at both levels moved up the classification ladder slowly.  Learned the nuances of each.  

So no..... I would be skeptical of a 2A or 3A coach jumping to 5A or 6A.  I’d want to see them inch up and win at each.  

But let me throw this out there too.....  I think 5A and 6A coaches would struggle at the 2A and 3A level for the SAME reasons.  They don’t know the nuances of small school ball.  

Jmho  

 

I think a 1A coach can jump to a 4AD2 without much of a hitch... then move up the ladder from there... but that’s just an opinion...  

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I don’t think Surratt would have brought Longview state titles that John King hasn’t. 

Every state title caliber team Longview has had the last 20+ years..... they lost to better teams. 

Could they and should they have won some of those games.?  Absolutely.   But by and large, they lost to superior teams. 

I don’t think Surratt would have magically won some of those games. 

And I think John King is one of the best in Texas. 

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17 minutes ago, MavGrad99 said:

I think a 1A coach can jump to a 4AD2 without much of a hitch... then move up the ladder from there... but that’s just an opinion...  

Why do you think don’t we see it happen?

By and large.... it seems they struggle. 

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40 minutes ago, ANTI said:

And this is the dumb sh#%+ that I'm talking about that completely sets me off. Ignorant comments like this.

How do you know this?

Name the years.

Can't wait to hear this.

2009 - LT lost Gilbert & King had experience against the Cavs from ‘08, but still no result.

2010 - Complete choke job against Guyer at SMU, pitiful. If Longview had any pass game at all they would’ve won.

2011

2015

In 2008, Longview was completely outclassed by LT. The offense had zero response to LT’s defense, and Gilbert embarrassed the Lobo defense. King had no ideas and no plays or change of pace offensively to generate any spark for the team. Outclassed, ugly.

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10 minutes ago, DB2point0 said:

You didn’t ask ME the years.  I was just giving my thoughts on the WHY part

 

 

Your not thinking X's and O's...I am.

Surratt isn't the perfect fit at Longview that you all make him to be.

How often does he use TE's? FB's? Rollouts, PA pass...stuff like that?

You have to adjust to the athlete...not force a system on them.

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