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Can a small school coach make the jump to a big school?


Mr. P

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9 hours ago, DB2point0 said:

Ive watched Carthage play at Corsicana multiple times.  It was windy every time and they threw the ball effectively.  

 

 

yiure right.  Give king an extension

You saw them play against a 2011 Dekaney caliber defense in the wind in Corsi?

Please, tell me more.

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11 hours ago, ANTI said:

How is Traylor from Gilmer doing at Lee so far?

Hasn't been 'Gilmer' so far eh?

That'a not a great argument, Traylor went 6-4 in his first year after getting hired very late in the year and having virtually no offseason.

That is after the great 6A SLC Offensive genus came to lowly East Texas and went 2-8.

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10 hours ago, HearEmaGrowlin said:

That Guyer game was terrible coaching decisions to throw at the end instead of run. 

This is why you fit the very definition of idiot.

Just a few posts above, you said that Surratt kills it at Longview that year because we didn't have a passing attack.

Now you're saying throwing is the reason we lost and that we should've been running.

Which one is it?

You'd think King has been leading Longview to 0-10 seasons every year by the way you sound.

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10 hours ago, Mavchamp said:

Why do you think don’t we see it happen?

By and large.... it seems they struggle. 

I think that we don't see it happen because not many smaller school coaches are given a glance at taking over a larger program in that manner... We look at some of the successful programs in ETX... let's say Maud... They have like 40 people come out for their football team...  They win and compete for state a few years in a row.  The coach is most likely outstanding and has run a great program... but his next step in realistic turns would be something like Waskom or a school of a similar size before something like Mineral Wells (4A D2)... It's not that we do things much different here, but the perception of managing 40 football players and maybe 100 athletes in the entire school to taking over a program with 120 football players and 400 athletes would be a stretch for any administrator to hire...

But I can tell you, what we do in Mineral Wells as far as our weight program is not much different than what they do at most 2A programs...  But its completely different than what I have seen at most 5A programs.  

My HC was at Waco Midway and Plano East and a few other large schools before taking this job... He said he had to adjust the way he did weights here compared to the other schools because there were just far less kids to work with.

And if I am being honest, although there are some outliers, a lot of our kids are built exactly the same.  There are a few kids that you can look at and tell the difference between a linebacker and a defensive lineman etc... The numbers just aren't the same when it comes to participation at 4A and below schools compared to the 5A level.

Honestly, this whole pissing match with these small school guys saying their coach could do it the way he is doing it now at a higher classification is BS.  If the guy at Waskom came into Marshall and did everything the way he is doing it at Waskom then the program would dwindle within a year or 2.  But, the best coaches adapt to their situation...  If your guy is as good as you guys say they are, then they would move and adapt to the situation instead of trying to do everything the way that worked for them at Linden Kildare or some other small school with low numbers.

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3 minutes ago, playactionpass39 said:

NOBODY can predict what anybody would do if they coached somewhere else, it is all conjecture.

You have people in this very thread saying Longview has 5-6 titles with this dude running things.

I beg to differ.

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11 hours ago, JTFAN99 said:

Malesky and Wasson, went from a small school to coordinator, before landing a big school head coaching job.

Todd Dodge, Kirk Martin, Randy Allen, Ryan Roark, Chris Melson and Phil Danaher went directly from a small school head coach to a large school head coach.

Steve Huff was hard to figure, because he coached out of state, but it looks like he had a bunch of small school head coaching jobs, then he became a coordinator at big school in TX, then he took a big school job in Oklahoma before coming back to Texas. His timeline is a little fuzzy based on the articles I could find.

Awesome, thanks! Always love it when someone does research and provides facts. :thumbsup:

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Just now, ANTI said:

You have people in this very thread saying Longview has 5-6 titles with this dude running things.

I beg to differ.

Again, NOBODY can say that with any level of confidence. Surratt does a better job developing QB's in my opinion, but NOBODY can say that, that alone would lead to State Championships. Surratt has a more diverse Offense, but again, that alone would not necessarily lead to more State Championships. You can NOT project success from one situation to another.

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10 minutes ago, playactionpass39 said:

Again, NOBODY can say that with any level of confidence. Surratt does a better job developing QB's in my opinion, but NOBODY can say that, that alone would lead to State Championships. Surratt has a more diverse Offense, but again, that alone would not necessarily lead to more State Championships. You can NOT project success from one situation to another.

Let's play Devil's Advocate for a minute... who is to say that the Carthage offense would work in Longview?  We are talking about a school that has consistently pounded it up every orifice of every school they played for the greater part of the last 20-25 years... The Surratt balanced approach could have been disastrous in some of the same seasons that some of you think that he would have won those semi-final games...

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1 minute ago, playactionpass39 said:

Surratt has a more diverse Offense

Woah, what?

Longview currently runs the spread, i-form, dirty bird and ace with several different variations in each package. They'll even breakout the triple option out of the I on occasion. It's actually one of the more diverse playbooks I've seen from a package standpoint. 

Surratt's offense is the basic spread with some ace (1 back) too. What did you mean by more diverse? More diverse play calling?

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14 minutes ago, ANTI said:

This is why you fit the very definition of idiot.

Just a few posts above, you said that Surratt kills it at Longview that year because we didn't have a passing attack.

Now you're saying throwing is the reason we lost and that we should've been running.

Which one is it?

You'd think King has been leading Longview to 0-10 seasons every year by the way you sound.

Surratt’s offense is able to attack a defense at its weakest point. Just because his offenses always have the ability to throw doesn’t mean they don’t also run well. Surratt also would’ve crammed it down Guyer’s throat and run the clock out leaving with a semifinal victory instead of moronically throwing at the wrong time during the game like King did.

Throwing at the inopportune time is what got y’all beat. Not being able to throw the ball well is an achilles heel and since you know football you are 100% aware of this fact. 

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3 minutes ago, MavGrad99 said:

Let's play Devil's Advocate for a minute... who is to say that the Carthage offense would work in Longview?  We are talking about a school that has consistently pounded it up every orifice of every school they played for the greater part of the last 20-25 years... The Surratt balanced approach could have been disastrous in some of the same seasons that some of you think that he would have won those semi-final games...

Hold up, are you saying being able to throw well or run well providing your offense with tons of options would’ve possibly been a bad thing?

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6 minutes ago, ANTI said:

Woah, what?

Longview currently runs the spread, i-form, dirty bird and ace with several different variations in each package. They'll even breakout the triple option out of the I on occasion. It's actually one of the more diverse playbooks I've seen from a package standpoint. 

Surratt's offense is the basic spread with some ace (1 back) too. What did you mean by more diverse? More diverse play calling?

Yes, more diverse as a WHOLE. Yes, Longview runs numerous formations, but is rather predictable in play calling.

Carthage runs multiple formations, multiple personnel groups, multiple motions and the PLAY calling is much more diverse.

 

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1 minute ago, HearEmaGrowlin said:

Surratt’s offense is able to attack a defense at its weakest point. Just because his offenses always have the ability to throw doesn’t mean they don’t also run well. Surratt also would’ve crammed it down Guyer’s throat and run the clock out leaving with a semifinal victory instead of moronically throwing at the wrong time during the game like King did.

Throwing at the inopportune time is what got y’all beat. Not being able to throw the ball well is an achilles heel and since you know football you are 100% aware of this fact. 

Dude, no.

As 99 said, his offense isn't a definitive fit at Longview.

Now, seeing him somewhere like Lufkin, JT, Marshall or even Lee would be interesting because those programs make athletes that fit Surratt's style of play more so than Longview does.

And even if he went to those places, I don't see him having the same success that he has had at Carthage because again, 5A and 6A are just tougher classes. It's much more different.

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1 minute ago, ANTI said:

Dude, no.

As 99 said, his offense isn't a definitive fit at Longview.

Now, seeing him somewhere like Lufkin, JT, Marshall or even Lee would be interesting because those programs make athletes that fit Surratt's style of play more so than Longview does.

And even if he went to those places, I don't see him having the same success that he has had at Carthage because again, 5A and 6A are just tougher classes. It's much more different.

Not arguing, just asking a question. 

Have you considered that one of the reasons Surratt has had so much success throwing the ball is because he does a GREAT job of developing QB's.

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12 minutes ago, playactionpass39 said:

 

Have you considered that one of the reasons Surratt has had so much success throwing the ball is because he does a GREAT job of developing QB's.

I don't deny his greatness as a QB coach.

HS coaches are only part of a kids development at the QB position. Off-season camps and combines with parental support is very important too.

And your not always going to have the parental support at large schools that you see at small schools. 

That brings about another topic, social disparities, which are much wider on the large school level than small school. Don't want to get in too depth but long story short, there ain't no "South Longview" or "North Tyler" or "North Lufkin" in Carthage.

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11 minutes ago, ANTI said:

I don't deny his greatness as a QB coach.

HS coaches are only part of a kids development at the QB position. Off-season camps and combines with parental support is very important too.

And your not always going to have the parental support at large schools that you see at small schools. 

That brings about another topic, social disparities, which are much wider on the large school level than small school. Don't want to get in too depth but long story short, there ain't no "South Longview" or "North Tyler" or "North Lufkin" in Carthage.

Let's not get into demographics, not an issue in the success or lack thereof for either of these communities.

You are wrong on the parental support issue, parents at big schools usually send their kids to camps and  combines MORE often than those at small schools.

And there are talented kids at Longview who could be every bit as good of QB's as the ones in Carthage with proper tutelage. 

 

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4 minutes ago, playactionpass39 said:

Let's not get into demographics, not an issue in the success or lack thereof for either of these communities.

You are wrong on the parental support issue, parents at big schools usually send their kids to camps and  combines MORE often than those at small schools.

And there are talented kids at Longview who could be every bit as good of QB's as the ones in Carthage with proper tutelage. 

 

Agree 100%.

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56 minutes ago, HearEmaGrowlin said:

Hold up, are you saying being able to throw well or run well providing your offense with tons of options would’ve possibly been a bad thing?

No, I said what I said... 2 different offensive systems or philosophies... Who is to say that Surratt's system would have fit those sets of Longview players?  Try not to read into it too much... but someone mentioned Paul Johnson and his successes... but could he move into Oregon or Baylor and turn their spread/speed philosophy into a winning program overnight with his wishbone/flexbone offense?  Not without the right player(s).

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1 hour ago, HearEmaGrowlin said:

Surratt’s offense is able to attack a defense at its weakest point. Just because his offenses always have the ability to throw doesn’t mean they don’t also run well. Surratt also would’ve crammed it down Guyer’s throat and run the clock out leaving with a semifinal victory instead of moronically throwing at the wrong time during the game like King did.

Throwing at the inopportune time is what got y’all beat. Not being able to throw the ball well is an achilles heel and since you know football you are 100% aware of this fact. 

 

54 minutes ago, ANTI said:

Dude, no.

As 99 said, his offense isn't a definitive fit at Longview.

Now, seeing him somewhere like Lufkin, JT, Marshall or even Lee would be interesting because those programs make athletes that fit Surratt's style of play more so than Longview does.

And even if he went to those places, I don't see him having the same success that he has had at Carthage because again, 5A and 6A are just tougher classes. It's much more different.

Go to the next board meeting, get on the agenda and tell them King needs an extension and a raise

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