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Tyler ISD high school name change


cujoforlife

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2 hours ago, ss9853 said:

My point where was the outrage by the community to have these memorials removed during Obama’s time in office?

This has been brewing for a while. Complete revisionist history to believe there wasn't outrage during Obama's time.

I know I've personally heard rumblings of things, at least in Dallas, as early as 2009.

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6 minutes ago, ss9853 said:

No civilized conversations to be had here. Make some non combative statements backed by facts and still get the #### symbol. Just a small glimpse why democrats will never win another nation wide election. Zero civility. Oh Democrats should be banned too. They are the party that supported slavery and the Klan. Another inconvenient truth for them. 

 

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45 minutes ago, ss9853 said:

Like I said, maybe there was talk. I just never heard it. It certainly wasn’t on the 24hr news loop as often as it’s now. I think all can agree to that. What’s next though? Removing Washington’s and Jefferson’s monuments? I’m not arguing for arguments sake. I rather like getting others input. They were major slave owners. General Lee I believe married a woman who despicably owned slaves. To my knowledge he never did directly. Terrible thing to marry into but never the less he did. He was also Lincoln’s first choice to lead the Union army. That’s a fact. Those days people were more apt to be loyal to their state. Doesn’t make it right. He certainly had his faults. But he isn’t the monster he’s made out to be. Our nation has had a troubled past. I challenge you to find a nation in the world that existed or still exist that didn’t have some monumental flaws. Someone mentioned New Orleans. Do they not have a statue of President Jackson? Does this not offend Native Americans? It must be torn down then I guess. Our world famous Texas Rangers. The real ones. Not the baseball team. Do they need to be disbanded for their handling of the Comanches and Apaches? Well maybe the team should change their name too? People may consider them a terrorist organization of the 19th century. Of coarse I’m joking. My point is there has to be some kind of line drawn. 

Lee married the Great Granddaughter of Martha Washington, and she inherited slaves from her father George Washington Parke Custis.  Lee was against slavery, and had spoken out against it.  He stated that they would be emancipated within 5 years.  However the plantation was poorly managed and was losing money.  So he had to leave the Army to attend to it.  He didn't free the slaves immediately do to the poor shape of the plantation, and no one else to run it.  Many of the slaves felt that they should have been made free at the death of George Washington Parke Custis.  Then the slaves revolted because of this which caused Lee to use violence against them in the form of whipping them and jailing some that had attempted to flee to the north for freedom.  There is some dispute that he did, but they were first hand accounts by the slaves that he did.  At the end of the 5 years Lee being a man of his word set them free.  

The way I see it Lee was an honorable man, but due to the time period he lived in when evil things were acceptable he his now also considered evil.  I don't see him as such.  He could have fought for the Union, and was asked to lead the North first, but when the South called he went with them, because he was a son of Virginia.  I don't understand why many schools in the South chose to name schools after him, because Lee High School wasn't even around until 1958.  It seems to me that 93 years after the Civil War that the school should have been named about a prominent Tylerite or someone from Texas or someone else.  It wasn't, and I wasn't even around back then.  After 60 years I don't know why people are wanting to change the name, even in my teenage years I didn't think much of it being named after him.  However it was, and it has a history to it.  Many alumni are probably proud that they attended school there.  I don't know why so many are worried about it today.  It's just a place you go to school, it doesn't describe how you are as an individual.    

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4 hours ago, ss9853 said:

Like I said, maybe there was talk. I just never heard it. It certainly wasn’t on the 24hr news loop as often as it’s now. I think all can agree to that. What’s next though? Removing Washington’s and Jefferson’s monuments? I’m not arguing for arguments sake. I rather like getting others input. They were major slave owners. General Lee I believe married a woman who despicably owned slaves. To my knowledge he never did directly. Terrible thing to marry into but never the less he did. He was also Lincoln’s first choice to lead the Union army. That’s a fact. Those days people were more apt to be loyal to their state. Doesn’t make it right. He certainly had his faults. But he isn’t the monster he’s made out to be. Our nation has had a troubled past. I challenge you to find a nation in the world that existed or still exist that didn’t have some monumental flaws. Someone mentioned New Orleans. Do they not have a statue of President Jackson? Does this not offend Native Americans? It must be torn down then I guess. Our world famous Texas Rangers. The real ones. Not the baseball team. Do they need to be disbanded for their handling of the Comanches and Apaches? Well maybe the team should change their name too? People may consider them a terrorist organization of the 19th century. Of coarse I’m joking. My point is there has to be some kind of line drawn. 

We will draw a line when everyone is  treated equally.

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4 hours ago, ss9853 said:

Oh Democrats should be banned too. They are the party that supported slavery and the Klan. Another inconvenient truth for them. 

I would guess that you keep getting the down votes because you've never picked up a book.

Modern day conservatism supported slavery, klan, white supremacy, segregation...all of that hoopla.

If you read a book, you'd know that the parties switched ideologies long ago in the early 1900s.

 

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4 minutes ago, ss9853 said:

When will that be? Tearing down historically figures and changing names of institutions going to make things equal in your eyes? Do you advocate tearing down memorials in DC. Blasting a couple of the heads on Mt Rushmore? Changing the names of a few sports franchises? Where is your line? Why wasn’t this line drawn when Obama was in office? Maybe it was. Could’ve been like his infamous red line in Syria and it didn’t mean anything. The nation needs a new deck of cards. The race card is tattered. It’s used on an hourly basis. I know my country, our country, has had some horrid things to take place while she has been in existence. I challenge you to name a country who hasn’t had its share of unforgettable moments. It’s still the best nation on earth. 

You keep using Obama as a stance for your argument, however you didn’t bother to bring up the fact the  republican ran House and Sente made it hard for him to pass a lot of things, but you can keep talking. 

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1 hour ago, ss9853 said:

Lots of intolerance from the tolerant left. This thread is like the streets of San Francisco. Littered with $ h I t symbols

 

I reckon you getting poop by making this thread strongly political in the sports forum albeit you popping up out of nowhere by your post count. (Of course minus being Lion70 aka HLion making weird posts). I bet if you started a separate thread in the political forum about this subject here you wouldn't have so much poop. 

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Actually, some of this stuff started many years ago.  For instance, up until the 50’s, Dixie was Lamar U’s fight song.  I think there were quite a few Texas Schools that had Rebels as their mascot.  Last “unofficial” number I heard was 7 left.  Although the Evadale mascot is Rebels, their colors are blue & gold (Yankee colors?  Why Miss Scarlet!  I think it’s an identity crisis).  But Dixie is never played, and I’ve never seen a Rebel Flag at any sporting event, although there is a coat of arms on the gym with part of a Rebel battle flag and crossed sabers.  And I’d bet the black students here would be against a mascot change, but of course their minds haven’t been ingrained that they’re suppose to hate the name.  Here, it’s just history.  And btw, since most slave owners were wealthy, I doubt a large percentage were in the Confederate (Rebel) Army.  Most of those men were like Lee, loyal to their state and I’d bet 99% were not slave owners, but again, fought out of loyalty to their state.  Not trying to change minds, merely adding a little history and perspective to the discussion.  As previously posted, this thread is primarily the concern of the people of Tyler.  Carry on gentlemen.

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When my dad was in HS..... Tyler Lee was called the REBELS.

They became the Red Raiders in the early 70's .  So this argument is FARRRRR from new.

And that Lee fight song....wowzers.  That's just a little shocking when you see it in context.  @LoboFan07 

I can't help but wonder.... the resistance we are seeing concerning statues and memorials and school names... is this comparable to the resistance that was present for women's suffrage?   desegregation?  interracial couples?  unwed mothers?

"The establishment" was totally against women's right to vote, black citizens voting, integration of schools.  Shame and guilt was shown to mixed couples and pregnant teenagers.

None of us likely bat an eye at ANY of those things now.  They're no big deal in today's world.  Those are things that.... quite frankly... just make common sense to be OK with.

So now we have all this resistance to removing statues.... marriage equality.... equal pay among the sexes... names of schools..... Can't help but wonder if all this will seem HO-HOM and "common sense" 20...30...or 50 years from now.

IMHO.....if something is a stumbling block for a fellow man..... then it should be removed.  Seems like I recall reading that in a pretty important book once.  

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19 hours ago, ANTI said:

I would guess that you keep getting the down votes because you've never picked up a book.

Modern day conservatism supported slavery, klan, white supremacy, segregation...all of that hoopla.

If you read a book, you'd know that the parties switched ideologies long ago in the early 1900s.

 

Not even close.  The Democrats didn't change their stances until the 1960's.  It was Republicans under Eisenhower who enacted the first Civil Rights Act of 1957.  Perhaps you should read of the Little Rock Nine in 1957, and about Governor Orval Flaubus (D) who tried to prevent it.  The South used to be the Democrats bread and butter up until the 1980's.  Many switched parties, because of  President Jimmy Carter's policies which hurt the American people, and the Democrat Party.  If you check this list of politicians who were in the Klan there was a majority of them except two from Colorado who belonged to the Klan, and that was in the 1920's both served short terms, because of their affiliation with the Klan.    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ku_Klux_Klan_members_in_United_States_politics#Robert_Byrd .  

 

The reason many voted for Trump has been in the shift of the Democrats to push for a more socialist agenda.  Many regulations under President Obama hurt mainstream America with regulations on industry that hurt jobs.  That was going to continue with Hillary.  Trump wanted to work for Americans and our prosperity, and why the surprising victory in 2016.  You don't know what you speak of.  You may have been taught by a liberal teacher that is what happened, but it wasn't true in the least.   

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18 hours ago, MrBuddyGarrity said:

I reckon you getting poop by making this thread strongly political in the sports forum albeit you popping up out of nowhere by your post count. (Of course minus being Lion70 aka HLion making weird posts). I bet if you started a separate thread in the political forum about this subject here you wouldn't have so much poop. 

It might be a sports forum, but this is a political topic.  This has nothing to do with any team, but the High Schools in Tyler and could be an argument for any school across the country that decides to change it's name.  That is not sports in the least.  

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  • Mr. P changed the title to Tyler ISD high school name change
10 hours ago, MavGrad99 said:

Let’s take the political talk out of this, or we can move it all to the political forum

If I knew how to move it I would, because as I said this is not a sports topic.  While I don't remember it since my High School was a 3A school in 1972, Robert E. Lee used to have a Confederate Battle flag the football team would run underneath the flag, until black athletes ran around it.  It was said to be the second largest Confederate flag behind the University of Mississippi.  I do remember the cannon they had, John Tyler had one, and Pine Tree also.  I believe most of those were retired in the 80's.  I know Robert E. Lee's and Pine Tree's were.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_E._Lee_High_School_(Tyler,_Texas)

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