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Red River Shootout


DB2point0

Red River Shootout   

29 members have voted

  1. 1. Who wins?

    • Bevo
      22
    • That team from across the river
      7


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4 minutes ago, JohnnyFootball said:

I appreciate your level of intelligence to refute everything he says without going all tu quoque on us the way that other guy does haha

I usually like to refute by asking questions so their answers pretty much end up exposing themselves. Depending on the person, it takes very minimal effort😂

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5 minutes ago, JohnnyFootball said:

Oh man, I was SO hoping Army would win that game. Not to stick it to Oklahoma or anything, but because I wanted that win to exist as a perfect example of how a team with less talent can beat a much more talented team with a great offense but exploitable defense. But alas, it was only a near miss for Army. Ironically, they screwed themselves in regulation by throwing the ball as they were driving in for the win to end the game. 

Ah well. Like I said, if Texas can establish the run, OU may be in for a long day on defense yet again. I wonder if their defense can maintain THIS level of defending for the entire season. It doesn't get any easier with strong running teams like KSU and West Virginia looming on the schedule. 

 

3 minutes ago, DB2point0 said:

Facing triple option offenses is assignment football.  If you don’t handle your assignment it causes problems elsewhere.  I’m not surprised ou had trouble with it because Stoops is their DC.  I’m not sure how he’s hung around this long.

The triple option really is an awesome thing to watch. Like DB said, it's all about assignments. Discipline as well. I respect and root for teams that run that because of the moving parts and reads it takes to execute it. It says a lot about coaching I think too. Now just teach the QB how to throw! Haha

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5 minutes ago, ETXfan16 said:

 

The triple option really is an awesome thing to watch. Like DB said, it's all about assignments. Discipline as well. I respect and root for teams that run that because of the moving parts and reads it takes to execute it. It says a lot about coaching I think too. Now just teach the QB how to throw! Haha

I loved when Georgia Tech ran for over 400yds against Mississippi State in their bowl game.  GT typically has better athletes than Army, but I guess that’s what makes watching Army so much more fun.  Those guys are fun to watch

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7 hours ago, Hlion said:

Texas has looked terrible even in their wins so why is Texas getting credit?

Once again who has Oklahoma played? If I was a Oklahoma fan I would be worried because this will be the first tough test of the season and your just happen to be playing Texas. Every team they have played is trash and Texas is battled tested after playing USC and TCU. 

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Keys for Texas
DEFENSE: Slow down OU's running game by containing Kyler Murray. Let him hit those short passes underneath, but don't give up the home run ball. The Sooners haven't faced a secondary as good as UT, so trust them to get at least one pick. 
OFFENSE: Protect the football. Use the zone-read to fool OU's poorly-coached linebackers and get Ehlinger running against defensive backs who can't tackle. The secondary will give your wideouts about a 15-yard cushion, so throw the hitch pass early and often for some decent catch-and-runs. They'll be open until about midway through the 4th quarter, when OU finally makes some defensive adjustments.

Keys for Oklahoma
OFFENSE: score on every possession, go for two-point conversions after every touchdown. Slip the scoreboard operator a c-note and see if he'll sneak some extra points up there when no one's looking. 
DEFENSE: try to keep Texas under 600 rushing yards. Fire Mike Stoops.

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6 minutes ago, DB2point0 said:

I loved when Georgia Tech ran for over 400yds against Mississippi State in their bowl game.  GT typically has better athletes than Army, but I guess that’s what makes watching Army so much more fun.  Those guys are fun to watch

Army is really special to watch, and I think a lot of that has to do with it just being Army. I'm always rooting for the military academies.

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3 minutes ago, AKA said:

Keys for Oklahoma
OFFENSE: score on every possession, go for two-point conversions after every touchdown. Slip the scoreboard operator a c-note and see if he'll sneak some extra points up there when no one's looking. 
DEFENSE: try to keep Texas under 600 rushing yards. Fire Mike Stoops.

David Goodbye GIF

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32 minutes ago, Hlion said:

LoL texas will be decent this year just not good enough to win the big 12. 

Texas coaching Staff are the only ones that are calling that a goal.  Most fans, especially the ones I’ve seen here have tempered expectations.  

29 minutes ago, Hlion said:

LoL the teams you play matter LoL. Big different in quality

So you’re saying your 3 wins are just games since they weren’t very good teams?. Ok

and your 2 losses were pretty much expected universally?  I agree

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Paging Mike Leach, Paging Mike Leach!!!

 

OK, I know that he is hanging out in Pullman these days, but the following story is hilarious!  I had heard snippets and innuendos about it in the past, but never as detailed as this. 

Would love it if some media person asked Tom Herman if he remembers his first game coaching against OU (as a grad student, no less!)

 

Quote

JAKE TROTTER
ESPN Staff Writer

Few rivalries in sports fuel as much hostility and pressure to win like college football's annual Red River Showdown between Oklahoma and Texas.

And through the years, those monumental stakes have led to some serious skullduggery. The most notable example came in 1972, when the Sooners spied on Texas' practices, allowing them to block a quick kick the Longhorns had secretly been working on en route to a victory.

Now, thanks to Mike Leach, the 1999 game can officially be added to that same legacy.

During pregame warmups of that year's Red River Showdown, an underhanded script outlining OU's opening offensive plays was spotted on the field by one of Texas' student assistants, who scooped it up and took it to Longhorns defensive coordinator Carl Reese. To the heavily favored Longhorns, it seemed as if they'd caught an enormous break.

"We were trying to figure out if it was authentic," Reese said. "We were in this state of, 'Can we believe this?'"

They shouldn't have.

It was a fake, part of a plot hatched by Leach and consulted by the Longhorns, who quickly fell behind 17-0 before realizing they'd been duped.

"That does sound like Mike," said former Texas coach Mack Brown, unaware of the script at the time. "I do know this: Offensive coordinators are so careful with those scripts they wouldn't be losing them. Those things are valuable. Only Mike would think to lay one out there as a decoy."

In his 2011 book "Swing Your Sword," Leach briefly mentioned the lark. But he never knew for sure just how seriously the Longhorns had taken it, how often they'd referenced it or just how effective it had been.

He was elated to learn recently that they had fallen for it so hard.

"These things evolve and become somewhat legendary," Leach said.

Oklahoma-Texas always heated in Red River Rivalry

Oklahoma-Texas always heated in Red River Rivalry
Oklahoma and Texas bring a ton of history and bad blood for the 2018 edition of their rivalry at the Cotton Bowl in Dallas.

Leading up to the game, Leach didn't tell OU coach Bob Stoops he was planting it, and Reese didn't inform Brown he had it. As a result, few people on either side knew of the decoy script's existence. And yet, it nearly propelled the underdog Sooners, with Stoops in his first year and OU coming off a 5-6 season, to a victory.

"That game might've been the most bizarre experience I ever had as a college football player," said Ahmad Brooks, a starting defensive back for the Longhorns. "I can't tell you how wrong we were in the first 3 or 4 minutes with every play call we had. I've never seen anything like it.

"It was complete pandemonium and it was complete confusion."

Reese finally trashed the script and Texas settled back into their game plan to rally and roll, 38-28.

But not before Leach unleashed pandemonium upon the Longhorns for a quarter.

"It was a decent effort," Leach said. "But it would even be more legendary if we had won the sucker."

A decent effort, fit for such a heated rivalry.

"Yeah, it was kind of shady," said former OU tight end Trent Smith, whom Leach drafted to "accidentally" drop the sheet in front of the Texas coaches.

"But it's OU-Texas. There are no rules."

On the Wednesday night of game week, Leach was with OU offensive assistant Cale Gundy when the two began laughing about how funny it would be to create a decoy script for the Longhorns.

"You start out kind of joking around about it," Leach said. "And then it's like, 'All right, screw it. Why not? Let's do it.' Then we had to think of stuff to put on it."

Leach didn't want to just mess with Texas. He wanted to utilize the ploy to gain an edge. So he took actual plays he had been planning to call and began doctoring up potential companions alongside them.

"In other words, with the fake play call, we wanted to complement it," he explained. "We would run something that would hopefully attack the space that we created by what they thought the play was gonna be."

For the decoy script, Leach began inputting plays the Sooners didn't even have in their system. And he invented the terminology for them as he went along, balancing the line between too complex to understand and too simple to be believable.

"It had to look like our terminology," Leach continued. "But Z-25 Jet, they may not know what the hell that means, you know? But you didn't wanna get busted, either. So it had to sound football-ish."

When he'd finished his masterpiece, Leach put Gundy's name at the top of it, as if it were Gundy's copy of OU's offensive play script. Then, he had it laminated to make it look official.

"That's Mike," Gundy said. "It was funny."

Outside Gundy, Leach kept the rest of the coaching staff in the dark, including Stoops, who was preparing for his first Red River Showdown.

"I figured Bob had enough problems and we'd let Bob just go ahead and deal with some Bob stuff," Leach said. "It was really me and Cale. You couldn't tell too many because if you did, the cat would get outta the bag or you'd have too many guys looking suspicious."

Next, Leach had to figure out how to lure Texas into taking the bait.

During the 1999 season, Leach, Smith and fullback Seth Littrell had a little tradition during pregame warmups.

"Back then, Coach Leach and me and Seth all dipped Copenhagen snuff," Smith recalled. "I would always carry the can out on the field during pregame. So I remember [Leach] calling me over and asking for the can. We were all going to take a dip together and he was like, 'All right, here's the deal, guys ...' explaining this to me and Seth. I just remember how excited he was about it. I got the feeling this was a total rogue thing that he was doing on his own.

"But he was like, 'Oh, this is going to be amazing. This is going to be hilarious. This is going to be epic.'"

As Leach carried on, Littrell and Smith grew just as excited.

"I thought it was pretty clever, to be honest," Littrell said.

Leach then handed the script to Smith and ordered him to execute the plant, which he did to perfection.

"He says, 'I'm going to walk off. I want you to stand here for a minute. Then, I want you to drop it right in front of their coaches over there and then just keep jogging," Smith said. "It was kind of exciting. I act like I'm going to tuck this script in the belt on my pants. I let it fall and just kept jogging as though I thought I still had it.

"It was killing me not to look back and see if it had worked."

Off to the side, Leach kept the discarded script within his peripheral vision. And to his delight, he watched as Texas student assistant Casey Horny picked it up.

"The body language was awesome. It was like watching a Muttley cartoon," Leach said, referring to the villainous 1960s dog who was the sidekick to Dick Dastardly. "They decided to give it the Muttley snicker and then went up the tunnel."


Former OU fullback Set Littrell, now head coach at North Texas, was part of a small group of people who knew Leach's plan.
Elsa/Getty Images
Back in the locker room, a few of the Texas coaches, including Reese, secondary coach Everett Withers and Tom Herman, just a grad assistant that season, passed around the script, attempting to determine what to make of it.

"It was one of those deals where we were like, 'No, this can't be real,'" said Withers, now head coach at Texas State. "But we all kind of thought it was."

They ultimately decided not to go to Brown with it. Instead, Reese took the script with him up to the press box.

"That's when I really looked it over and we talked a little bit about it," Reese said. "Everybody really thought it was the real deal."

Reese began tweaking his defensive calls to match the script. And it wouldn't take long for that to backfire.

"I just remember sitting in the huddle that first drive and kind of giggling," said Littrell. "Like, they think they know what we're fixin' to do."

The second play of the script called for something akin to a double-reverse pass. In response, the Longhorns brought Brooks on a nickel blitz with the goal of sacking the Sooners for a big loss.

Instead, Leach snuck freshman receiver Antwone Savage behind the linebackers on a shallow crossing route going the other direction to the right. Quarterback Josh Heupel found him so wide open that Savage galloped untouched for a 44-yard touchdown.

"We thought maybe we just screwed the verbiage up," Herman said.

So despite getting torched for a touchdown in two plays, Texas didn't immediately give up on the script. And in turn, its defense grew only more discombobulated.

Reese was concerned about all the screens on the decoy script. So when he otherwise would've brought pressure, he sat back, giving Heupel ample time to pick Texas apart. According to Withers, the Longhorns were also unsettled by all the wrinkles in the script they hadn't prepared for, like backs going for passes out of the backfield.

"We were so worried about it that we weren't worried about just doing our job," Withers said. "It captivated our attention and it was probably the reason they were so effective in the first quarter."

When the Sooners went up 17-0 just 10 minutes into the game, Reese finally scrapped the script.

"It was tossed into the trash can," he said. "At that point, you thought you'd been had. I just got back to the basics and started looking at what was really going on and trying to adjust to it."

That's all the Longhorns really needed. They dominated the rest of the way, picking off Heupel three times, including once by Brooks.

"The thing you didn't want is those Longhorns just triggering at you full steam without any hesitation," Leach said. "Because they were pretty overpowering at that point."

They indeed overpowered the Sooners to complete the school's largest comeback in 34 years. Texas held them to just one more touchdown, which didn't come until late in the third quarter after the Longhorns had built a 31-20 lead.

"When it was all over with, I had a good laugh," Reese said. "Because it really was a nice ploy and it did a good job of messing us up for a while.

"I learned a good lesson there."


Oklahoma quarterback Josh Heupel threw 44- and 30-yard touchdown passes in the first quarter before the Texas defense shifted gears.
Andy Lyons/Getty Images
After the game, the Texas assistants were suspicious that Leach had been the one to plant the decoy script. But they weren't completely positive.

"I had thought, based on his reputation -- I mean that not negatively at all -- but that it was certainly something that he might do," Herman said. "I don't know that I ever got confirmation until I talked to somebody who was on the Oklahoma staff and they adamantly confirmed, 'Oh yeah, that's something he was working on all week.'"

Brooks, meanwhile, said he and his teammates remained mystified as to why their defense had looked so lost that first quarter.

"The funny part is, I didn't hear that story until Tom told it a year ago," he said. "The coaches never tipped us off that that had been found, so we had no idea.

"It was a brilliant move by Mike Leach."

As for Leach, he'd never been told of Texas' account of the event, either.

"Was Herman there?" Leach asked, before being reminded Herman was an assistant then, after which he perked up. "Oh, so what did he say? I've never heard their side. What did he say happened?"

For Herman and the eight other assistants or players in the game who would go on to become future head coaches, it was a valuable reminder that something that seems too good to be true probably is.

"Hey man, they shouldn't have been trying to cheat," said Littrell, now head coach at North Texas. "That's why they got duped."

Knowing the fruits of his efforts, Leach obviously doesn't feel any shame.

Only more pride.

"Well," Leach said, "nobody said you had to pick it up and read it.

"It's like, listen closer in your Sunday school lessons and it probably wouldn't have come so easily for us."

 

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11 minutes ago, BlackwellSooner said:

Paging Mike Leach, Paging Mike Leach!!!

 

OK, I know that he is hanging out in Pullman these days, but the following story is hilarious!  I had heard snippets and innuendos about it in the past, but never as detailed as this. 

Would love it if some media person asked Tom Herman if he remembers his first game coaching against OU (as a grad student, no less!)

 

 

Herman told the story last year in his press conference the week of OU. 

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6 hours ago, bigj said:

Once again who has Oklahoma played? If I was a Oklahoma fan I would be worried because this will be the first tough test of the season and your just happen to be playing Texas. Every team they have played is trash and Texas is battled tested after playing USC and TCU. 

Texas has played one good team.

TCU

and TCU gave Texas 4 turnovers. 

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7 hours ago, AKA said:

Keys for Texas
DEFENSE: Slow down OU's running game by containing Kyler Murray. Let him hit those short passes underneath, but don't give up the home run ball. The Sooners haven't faced a secondary as good as UT, so trust them to get at least one pick. 
OFFENSE: Protect the football. Use the zone-read to fool OU's poorly-coached linebackers and get Ehlinger running against defensive backs who can't tackle. The secondary will give your wideouts about a 15-yard cushion, so throw the hitch pass early and often for some decent catch-and-runs. They'll be open until about midway through the 4th quarter, when OU finally makes some defensive adjustments.

Keys for Oklahoma
OFFENSE: score on every possession, go for two-point conversions after every touchdown. Slip the scoreboard operator a c-note and see if he'll sneak some extra points up there when no one's looking. 
DEFENSE: try to keep Texas under 600 rushing yards. Fire Mike Stoops.

Maybe start a"kitty" at the tailgate to cover ALL press box activities. 😂

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7 hours ago, JohnnyFootball said:

Hrm good point. But is it a cause and effect thing? 

I think their defense is on the field so much BECAUSE they're not so great, you know? If you force a 3 and out (or any punt/turnover), you get of the field. When you give up a lot of 3rd and 4th downs, you're on the field more. 

It think it’s a little of both. 

But like against Baylor, Oklahoma score 66 points. No touchdown drive was longer than 3 minutes.

That wears a defensive down. Especially a defense who doesn’t have great depth. 

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Texas has played Maryland (3-1), Tulsa (1-3), USC (3-2), TCU (3-2) and Kansas State (2-3). Other than Tulsa (who is not good) the other 4 teams have lost to Temple, Stanford, Ohio State, West Virginia, & Mississipi State. They have FBS victories over Minnesota, Washington State, Arizona, Iowa State, SMU, & UTSA. 

 

OU has played Florida Atlantic (2-3), UCLA (0-4), Iowas State (1-3), Army (3-2) and Baylor (3-2). They have losses to UCF, Middle Tennessee, Cincinnati, Colorado, Fresno State, Iowa, TCU & Duke. Their FBS wins are Air Force, Akron, Hawaii, Buffalo, UTSA & Kansas.

 

Again, I think OU is going to be a very tough game for Texas...but they are battle hardened for a lack of better terms. OU has not been tested yet by a quality football team. They still may not be after Saturday.

 

 

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26 minutes ago, TxFight said:

Texas has played Maryland (3-1), Tulsa (1-3), USC (3-2), TCU (3-2) and Kansas State (2-3). Other than Tulsa (who is not good) the other 4 teams have lost to Temple, Stanford, Ohio State, West Virginia, & Mississipi State. They have FBS victories over Minnesota, Washington State, Arizona, Iowa State, SMU, & UTSA. 

OU has played Florida Atlantic (2-3), UCLA (0-4), Iowas State (1-3), Army (3-2) and Baylor (3-2). They have losses to UCF, Middle Tennessee, Cincinnati, Colorado, Fresno State, Iowa, TCU & Duke. Their FBS wins are Air Force, Akron, Hawaii, Buffalo, UTSA & Kansas.

Again, I think OU is going to be a very tough game for Texas...but they are battle hardened for a lack of better terms. OU has not been tested yet by a quality football team. They still may not be after Saturday.

I miss people who do research.  Me and @WETSU used to kill this forum with page long posts filled with research when I was looking for every reason in the world to kill A&M (successfully if I may add).  

However, OU is the better team.  They have a great offensive scheme, better players, and they know how to win.  Their only deficiency seems to be the DC...  which I think they should just fire and let him go work at Kentucky :lol:

Texas has some great pieces to the puzzle... the problem is that most of those pieces are still young pieces that need to grow a little bit more to fit it all perfectly.  

Anything can and has and will happen in this game, but if your money isn't on OU, then you are throwing pennies in a well....

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22 minutes ago, MavGrad99 said:

However, OU is the better team.  They have a great offensive scheme, better players, and they know how to win.  Their only deficiency seems to be the DC... 

This is the most galling thing about this team and this game: it. should. not. be. close. 

But it will be. Much closer than in needs to be. Hell, we might even lose the damn game. 

Those are facts that I simply cannot wrap my head around.

I can't think of a single coach in the modern era who has so consistently done less with more than Mike Stoops. 

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40 minutes ago, ETXfan16 said:

So Texas doesn't get any credit for those turnovers?

I didn't see the game so I don't know if it was TCU being careless with the ball or Texas going and getting it, but I do know TCU turns it over a lot. They've thrown 7 INTs in their 4 FCS games. And fumble the ball a lot (like 5 times against SMU lol!) even if they don't lose a lot. 

So yeah, TCU doesn't exactly take care of the ball, although I didn't see the game so I couldn't tell you if Texas did anything to get them. 

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10 minutes ago, JohnnyFootball said:

I didn't see the game so I don't know if it was TCU being careless with the ball or Texas going and getting it, but I do know TCU turns it over a lot. They've thrown 7 INTs in their 4 FCS games. And fumble the ball a lot (like 5 times against SMU lol!) even if they don't lose a lot. 

So yeah, TCU doesn't exactly take care of the ball, although I didn't see the game so I couldn't tell you if Texas did anything to get them. 

It was a mix of both. There were 3 interceptions and 1 fumble, with one of those interceptions coming on a trick play. There was one really god awful throw by the TCU QB, but on the others Texas was just in the right position and made the play.

But it was mentioned earlier, everything that has happened before this game doesn't matter. I saw a 1-4 Texas team stick it to a top 10 OU squad in 2015. In 2012, both teams were ranked and OU beat Texas by like 40+ lol. Literally anything can happen 

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