Former Baylor DE found not guilty

[WETSU]

3 hours ago, DB2point0 said:

It smells to foul to be innocent.  That’s all.  The girl was in the hospital hours after it occurred.  That doesn’t spell remorse to me.  Bruising (photos of the proof)  on back of her neck is consistent with her story.  

 

Heres my thoughts.  I have a daughter.  My job is to teach her to net get herself in a situation where she’s not comfortable, where somebody can take advantage of her, where her consent can be called into question by a boy, friends or even a jury.  I have a son.  My job is to teach him to respect women and their innocence, what “being a man” really means, and to not get himself in a situation where fingers can be pointed at him in situations like this.  Sounds to me like neither Oakman or this girl got those lessons.  

 

I do think the girl ultimately told Oakman no.  The pics and examiner showed it to be an assault.  Lawyers have ways of twisting the truth.  I also feel there may have been bias in the jury if they were all from Waco.  The whole situation stinks too much

 

theres never been a jury to get it wrong before?

I understand as a father what you’re saying here, but you’re playing both sides of this. You’re 100% taking the daughters side and leaving the son out in the cold. Let’s be 100% honest here. The vast majority of sons, even absolutely amazing young men who are great people, will find themselves at a college party at some point in time where drinking is involved if they go to a major campus. That’s not a crime or what I would call “bad behavior” that’s normal. The majority of those sons at that party will have a drink and will be around women that have a drink too. Again nothing wrong with that at all. And many of these young people will have relations. Or at least find themselves in positions one on one with the opposite sex where it’s someones word vs the other. It’s just the way things have been and will always be. Again, many amazing young people with what I would call excellent behavior will find themselves in that situation at least once in their lifetime and it’s not a crime or “wrong” that it happens. Now when that happens, it needs to be fair to your daughter and your son. You’re basically putting no responsibility whatsoever on the women in these scenarios and you’re placing all the blame on the man for even being there. That’s not right. 

I understand your parental instincts to protect your daughter lead you to believe a certain way on cases like this, but what about your parental instincts to protect your son? Is his word not worth as much as your daughters? Your son could be the best behaved citizen in America and still end up in oakmens shoes. Your son could help a women load her groceries in her car one day and she make accusations he touched her and it could ruin his life. It’s literally that simple because of the way people like you think today. They don’t care if there’s no proof or if he’s innocent, they only care about the women’s word and assume guilt the minute an accusation is made. Do you want your son to have to live that life? 

[DB2point0]

1 hour ago, WETSU said:

I understand as a father what you’re saying here, but you’re playing both sides of this. You’re 100% taking the daughters side and leaving the son out in the cold. Let’s be 100% honest here. The vast majority of sons, even absolutely amazing young men who are great people, will find themselves at a college party at some point in time where drinking is involved if they go to a major campus. That’s not a crime or what I would call “bad behavior” that’s normal. The majority of those sons at that party will have a drink and will be around women that have a drink too. Again nothing wrong with that at all. And many of these young people will have relations. Or at least find themselves in positions one on one with the opposite sex where it’s someones word vs the other. It’s just the way things have been and will always be. Again, many amazing young people with what I would call excellent behavior will find themselves in that situation at least once in their lifetime and it’s not a crime or “wrong” that it happens. Now when that happens, it needs to be fair to your daughter and your son. You’re basically putting no responsibility whatsoever on the women in these scenarios and you’re placing all the blame on the man for even being there. That’s not right. 

I understand your parental instincts to protect your daughter lead you to believe a certain way on cases like this, but what about your parental instincts to protect your son? Is his word not worth as much as your daughters? Your son could be the best behaved citizen in America and still end up in oakmens shoes. Your son could help a women load her groceries in her car one day and she make accusations he touched her and it could ruin his life. It’s literally that simple because of the way people like you think today. They don’t care if there’s no proof or if he’s innocent, they only care about the women’s word and assume guilt the minute an accusation is made. Do you want your son to have to live that life? 

I know the possibilities.  The situation were discussing though pointed to rape. Still does in my mind. Within hours of the incident she was at the hospital and the examiner said it was consistent with assault and the evidence (bruising) was consistent with story as well.  The policeman said she was visibly upset over the matter as well.  Oakman himself said the girl was drunk, stumbled on his porch and he grabbed her by the arm to keep her from falling, but says later she wasn’t drunk and consented to sex.  He’s the one trying to have it both ways.  I believe the girl in this instance.  I’d tell my son to be weary of situations like this because there ARE half truths told after the fact.  I just believe this one to have been legit.  The story just stinks all the way around.

[WETSU]

1 hour ago, DB2point0 said:

I know the possibilities.  The situation were discussing though pointed to rape. Still does in my mind. Within hours of the incident she was at the hospital and the examiner said it was consistent with assault and the evidence (bruising) was consistent with story as well.  The policeman said she was visibly upset over the matter as well.  Oakman himself said the girl was drunk, stumbled on his porch and he grabbed her by the arm to keep her from falling, but says later she wasn’t drunk and consented to sex.  He’s the one trying to have it both ways.  I believe the girl in this instance.  I’d tell my son to be weary of situations like this because there ARE half truths told after the fact.  I just believe this one to have been legit.  The story just stinks all the way around.

I agree when you present those points it points towards foul play, but there are also tons of more points that a jury also saw and they unanimously believed this was not a rape. I’m simply saying we need to back the young man in this after he was found not guilty. It’s not fair that even after his constitutional right of a fair trial (that he won) that people like you still assume his guilt. That’s simply not fair to him and young men like him. Once a group of people who know all the facts not just some of the facts they read online say he’s innocent, why do you insist on still believing the worst? 

Like I said I think you would feel completely different about this if your son were involved or if it was a Texas player not a Baylor player. 

[DB2point0]

17 minutes ago, WETSU said:

I agree when you present those points it points towards foul play, but there are also tons of more points that a jury also saw and they unanimously believed this was not a rape. I’m simply saying we need to back the young man in this after he was found not guilty. It’s not fair that even after his constitutional right of a fair trial (that he won) that people like you still assume his guilt. That’s simply not fair to him and young men like him. Once a group of people who know all the facts not just some of the facts they read online say he’s innocent, why do you insist on still believing the worst? 

Like I said I think you would feel completely different about this if your son were involved or if it was a Texas player not a Baylor player. 

Juries have been wrong lots of times and innocent folks have served time.  I think a guilt man is walking here

 

My son, Baylor or Texas has no bearing on my feelings of this.  I don’t back this young man.  IF, he is in fact innocent, he took advantage of a drunk girl.  Pretty sorry even then. 

 

lets just agree to disagree.  

[WETSU]

1 minute ago, DB2point0 said:

 

lets just agree to disagree.  

Yea

[ETXfan16]

On 3/1/2019 at 2:28 PM, WETSU said:

This is exactly what I was talking about. The Baylor mess has blown way out of proportion. There has never been a rape problem at Baylor. There is a problem of society believing women when they have learned they can get away with this type of accusation without any evidence or facts or consequences for lying. 

Everyone that jumped on the let’s hate these young men, art briles, and Baylor bandwagon are just as much of the problem as the women who accuse them. Let the law do their job and quit assuming women are telling the truth. Because it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to see that the majority of these cases are women fabricating it. Especially in a college atmosphere where alcohol/drugs run amuck and immature behavior is the norm. 

What I don't think was blown out of proportion was the University's way of reporting the issues to the right people. They got these people coming up to them saying they've been raped, and Baylor just shrugged their shoulders and basically just said "okay". Whether the accusers were telling the truth or not, Baylor really dug themselves in a hole by sweeping it under the rug, and that's where my problem with Baylor is.

However, I do agree with you that innocent until proven guilty pretty much doesn't exist anymore and that's extremely frustrating to me, especially in cases like this. And a lot of these women that fabricate their stories know that. Our society now has this obsession with being the victim. If they can't win the case, at least they can tarnish the other's reputation and still be considered the victim.

[Coach Rab]

1 hour ago, ETXfan16 said:

What I don't think was blown out of proportion was the University's way of reporting the issues to the right people. They got these people coming up to them saying they've been raped, and Baylor just shrugged their shoulders and basically just said "okay". Whether the accusers were telling the truth or not, Baylor really dug themselves in a hole by sweeping it under the rug, and that's where my problem with Baylor is.

However, I do agree with you that innocent until proven guilty pretty much doesn't exist anymore and that's extremely frustrating to me, especially in cases like this. And a lot of these women that fabricate their stories know that. Our society now has this obsession with being the victim. If they can't win the case, at least they can tarnish the other's reputation and still be considered the victim.

The bigger issue I have is that Baylor didn't just sweep it under the rug....  they put it all on the shoulders of Art Briles.  After Briles was fired was when all of the truth came out, where most of it fell on administration within the university, not the fall guy.

[ETXfan16]

11 minutes ago, MavGrad99 said:

The bigger issue I have is that Baylor didn't just sweep it under the rug....  they put it all on the shoulders of Art Briles.  After Briles was fired was when all of the truth came out, where most of it fell on administration within the university, not the fall guy.

Yup. And while I'm not sure Briles in 100% innocent, they for sure put it all on him. It's all a huge mess

[PelvisPresley]

yes, but did she end up at the hospital and upset because the friend amped it up to her that she had been assaulted and that she needed to go to the hospital? wait, y'all had broken up and you couldn't have agreed to consensually do this...you have bruises on your arms...