UT A&M negotiations for renewing rivalry

[Sportsfanatic1]

2 hours ago, MavGrad99 said:

I think it’s safe to say that Texas is still the best damned state for football for players ages 22 and under  

Very true

[JohnnyFootball]

20 hours ago, MavGrad99 said:

I think it’s safe to say that Texas is still the best damned state for football for players ages 22 and under  

I disagree there. 

[trueblue82]

21 hours ago, MavGrad99 said:

I think it’s safe to say that Texas is still the best damned state for football for players ages 22 and under  

It’s also the best to watch pointless arguments about football, which, this time of year, qualifies as a spectator sport for me. 

[PelvisPresley]

23 hours ago, WETSU said:

Highly disagree there, but that’s why we have this board. I could spend time pulling the stats to back my argument but you’ll ignore them anyway.  

And I think that's the premise that Georgia fans and SEC fans smacked their own backs so hard they gave themselves concussions prior to the Sugar Bowl game (Georgia vs Texas)...before the Longhorn defense stifled the Bulldogs and pounded them three-ways to Sunday... 

Texas is much better than SEC/Texas A&M ever thinks...and you never will want to play them with any break in a schedule.

[JohnnyFootball]

19 minutes ago, trueblue82 said:

It’s also the best to watch pointless arguments about football, which, this time of year, qualifies as a spectator sport for me. 

Pretty much. The two teams aren't playing and won't play for the foreseeable future. Any talk of "X team would win" is just talk...

[TxFight]

The arguments over the better WR corp are a bit petty. Both groups are talented. As WETSU said, A&M spread theirs out a bit more (Texas had 2 over 900 yards, A&M had 0) but the yardages are basically identical on a game to game basis. 

[PelvisPresley]

You know, I had been wanting to say a combo of what JohnnyFB and TXFight said, in that it's nearly easy to BE A FAN OF BOTH at this point & I can CHEER FOR THE IMMENSE SUCCESS OF BOTH to a point (an A&M grad and lifelong Horn fan)...they don't play each other now in football and when they play in other sports...that's another story. In football, both teams have incredible talent...for sure. Personally, I think both are on the upswing and what would be the utmost of cool is if A&M ended up putting it all together in the SEC and Texas put things all together and ran through their schedule and they got that opportunity to meet in the College Football Playoff...ooooo chills!!!

[DB2point0]

I used to pull for all teams from the state of Texas to be good, but certain fan bases make it hard to root for them.  

[WETSU]

59 minutes ago, DB2point0 said:

I used to pull for all teams from the state of Texas to be good, but certain fan bases make it hard to root for them.  

Likewise. The amount of arrogance over things that happened before most of us were even born is a little too much for me. I mean A&M didn’t even recruit real football players until like the late 60s lol. (Kissing a little but corps participation was a requirement for a very long time and how many football players cared about that)  It was busy trying to win a war while Texas was busy building a football powerhouse. The two just had very different beginnings and functioned almost entirely different until probably the early 70s. Since then, it’s sctually been a decent rivalry in terms of head to head and conference titles. 

I also have a problem with the school and Austin itself are basically becoming the equivalent of Cali though...

[WETSU]

1 hour ago, CoachPelvisPresley said:

You know, I had been wanting to say a combo of what JohnnyFB and TXFight said, in that it's nearly easy to BE A FAN OF BOTH at this point & I can CHEER FOR THE IMMENSE SUCCESS OF BOTH to a point (an A&M grad and lifelong Horn fan)...they don't play each other now in football and when they play in other sports...that's another story. In football, both teams have incredible talent...for sure. Personally, I think both are on the upswing and what would be the utmost of cool is if A&M ended up putting it all together in the SEC and Texas put things all together and ran through their schedule and they got that opportunity to meet in the College Football Playoff...ooooo chills!!!

Is this even possible? How did you make it through 4 years at A&M as Texas fan? It’s almost like being a Muslim who loves America, women and bacon. Lol 

[PelvisPresley]

19 minutes ago, WETSU said:

Is this even possible? How did you make it through 4 years at A&M as Texas fan? It’s almost like being a Muslim who loves America, women and bacon. Lol 

I had my associates from another school (and a family - I mentioned before)...went back...in a weird story applied to Texas and was told I was going to have to re-take two English classes I had D's in (only D's I ever made, though I admit I was a poor student in those early years). I applied to A&M and they accepted them. 

[ETXfan16]

In our society today, we have people who think they have the ability to do the impossible and change someone's mind who has an opposing opinion. Texas vs Texas A&M on twitter (the banter between fans) was one of the most annoying things I've ever read when I had Twitter. When I grew up, I didn't like Texas A&M just because I was raised a Longhorn. It was fun when my family and our Aggie neighbors from church got together to watch the game. We didn't like each others teams but nobody ever argued stats and recruits and all this petty ####. It was just "my team is better than yours" and that was it. It was fun. 

Now, fans are at each others throats and look like total idiots when this discussion is brought up. On both sides. I mean, it's just ridiculous and makes me cringe. 

[MrBuddyGarrity]

On 3/27/2019 at 8:43 AM, WestHardinfan1 said:

The legislature should force this matchup to happen every year......no game, no money for anything from the taxpayers.....simple solution.....

Eerie, we agree. 

[Red90fly]

On 3/31/2019 at 10:24 AM, WETSU said:

 

Absolutely not... That might be the most lopsided of all position groups honestly. 

Lopsided eh?  Texas ranks higher in 7/9 of these ranking categories with some not even close.

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ncaaol

[WETSU]

26 minutes ago, Red90fly said:

Lopsided eh?  Texas ranks higher in 7/9 of these ranking categories with some not even close.

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ncaaol

I’m not even going to get into the quality of opponent. If you look up the defensive stats of the opponents they faced, I’m very confident A&M faced far better defenses throughout the year. To me opponents matter when comparing stats. 

[WETSU]

4 hours ago, ETXfan16 said:

In our society today, we have people who think they have the ability to do the impossible and change someone's mind who has an opposing opinion. Texas vs Texas A&M on twitter (the banter between fans) was one of the most annoying things I've ever read when I had Twitter. When I grew up, I didn't like Texas A&M just because I was raised a Longhorn. It was fun when my family and our Aggie neighbors from church got together to watch the game. We didn't like each others teams but nobody ever argued stats and recruits and all this petty ####. It was just "my team is better than yours" and that was it. It was fun. 

Now, fans are at each others throats and look like total idiots when this discussion is brought up. On both sides. I mean, it's just ridiculous and makes me cringe. 

I honestly highly enjoy the stats talk. This whole my team is better than yours like you talked about is stuff I expect from 40 year old moms in the stands. I enjoy an educated debate. But to each his own. I do understand your points. 

[Red90fly]

13 minutes ago, WETSU said:

I’m not even going to get into the quality of opponent. If you look up the defensive stats of the opponents they faced, I’m very confident A&M faced far better defenses throughout the year. To me opponents matter when comparing stats. 

Lol if you're going to play that card then the Texas DL faced far better offenses throughout the year.

Botton line is it's not "lopsided" like you stated.

[DB2point0]

1 hour ago, WETSU said:

I’m not even going to get into the quality of opponent. If you look up the defensive stats of the opponents they faced, I’m very confident A&M faced far better defenses throughout the year. To me opponents matter when comparing stats. 

But yet a year ago Texas proved to have the better schedule strength Yet you ignored those facts.  

[WETSU]

6 hours ago, DB2point0 said:

But yet a year ago Texas proved to have the better schedule strength Yet you ignored those facts.  

A year ago as in 2017? Because they most definitely did not have a higher sos in 2018. 

[WETSU]

6 hours ago, Red90fly said:

Lol if you're going to play that card then the Texas DL faced far better offenses throughout the year.

Botton line is it's not "lopsided" like you stated.

That’s a reasonable assessment, but I’ll counter with maybe the sec offenses aren’t ranked as high because the defenses are better on average. Same argument just flipped. Which is why it’s hard to assess offensive conference vs a defensive conference. That’s why I also consider talent level. A&Ms schedule between the sec and Clemson last year will have probably 6-8 defensive lineman drafted in the first 2 rounds. Will there even be a defensive lineman from the big 12 drafted in the first 3? Serious question. I know it was maybe last year or the year before where the entire conference had a combined 2 front 7 players drafted at all? 

The talent level is simply different in the two conferences. Especially on defense. Look no further than recruiting rankings every year. Then the draft every year. The sec just simply is far more talented on a player to player level. Now this is not saying that the big 12 doesn’t have some good teams. They play very innovative style of football and yes as a team they can be tough to handle. But you cannot ignore the individual talent level imo. Which is why imo it must be taken into account the quality of opponent defensive line when comparing A&M to Texas in terms of oline stats. 

[WETSU]

10 hours ago, DB2point0 said:

But yet a year ago Texas proved to have the better schedule strength Yet you ignored those facts.  

I never discredited Texas having a higher sos in 2017 btw. What I said was their conference sos was not higher. It was an sec vs big 12 argument not a Texas vs A&M argument. Because that year A&Ms nonconference was very very weak. 

[DB2point0]

https://www.teamrankings.com/college-football/ranking/schedule-strength-by-other?date=2018-01-08

 

your argument has typically been overall schedule was tougher due to playing in a tougher conference.  I’m not digging through a years worth of posts, but iirc the facts were posted and the Big12 as a whole had higher ranked schedules and a higher average in ‘17

 

i know aTm had a tougher schedule in ‘18, but they were 5th and Texas was 12th.  I was only bringing up the ‘17 season to show that you were ignoring facts.  That’s all.  You always want stats, but ignore them when they don’t support your argument

[DB2point0]

1 hour ago, WETSU said:

That’s a reasonable assessment, but I’ll counter with maybe the sec offenses aren’t ranked as high because the defenses are better on average. Same argument just flipped. Which is why it’s hard to assess offensive conference vs a defensive conference. That’s why I also consider talent level. A&Ms schedule between the sec and Clemson last year will have probably 6-8 defensive lineman drafted in the first 2 rounds. Will there even be a defensive lineman from the big 12 drafted in the first 3? Serious question. I know it was maybe last year or the year before where the entire conference had a combined 2 front 7 players drafted at all? 

The talent level is simply different in the two conferences. Especially on defense. Look no further than recruiting rankings every year. Then the draft every year. The sec just simply is far more talented on a player to player level. Now this is not saying that the big 12 doesn’t have some good teams. They play very innovative style of football and yes as a team they can be tough to handle. But you cannot ignore the individual talent level imo. Which is why imo it must be taken into account the quality of opponent defensive line when comparing A&M to Texas in terms of oline stats. 

Sec defenses have always looked statistically better due to poor offenses and offensive strategy.  As the offenses have evolved in the last decade their defenses have looked worse.  Now they’re started to get exposed in bowl games.  

 

To yourr second paragraph.  That is largely in part to Alabama and Georgia.  I believe they combined for 19 of the sec’s Draft picks...36%

theyre typically 2 top rated recruiting ranked teams in the team rankings

looking back again auburn LSU had 11 draft picks.  That 30 of 53 draft picks coming from 4 teams.  That leaves 23 split up between 10 teams.  Sounds like conference bragging again.  

[TxFight]

1 hour ago, WETSU said:

That’s a reasonable assessment, but I’ll counter with maybe the sec offenses aren’t ranked as high because the defenses are better on average. Same argument just flipped. Which is why it’s hard to assess offensive conference vs a defensive conference. That’s why I also consider talent level. A&Ms schedule between the sec and Clemson last year will have probably 6-8 defensive lineman drafted in the first 2 rounds. Will there even be a defensive lineman from the big 12 drafted in the first 3? Serious question. I know it was maybe last year or the year before where the entire conference had a combined 2 front 7 players drafted at all? 

The talent level is simply different in the two conferences. Especially on defense. Look no further than recruiting rankings every year. Then the draft every year. The sec just simply is far more talented on a player to player level. Now this is not saying that the big 12 doesn’t have some good teams. They play very innovative style of football and yes as a team they can be tough to handle. But you cannot ignore the individual talent level imo. Which is why imo it must be taken into account the quality of opponent defensive line when comparing A&M to Texas in terms of oline stats. 

My personal opinion on the draft and those rankings etc is this. This is not a knock on any one style, conference etc either, just my observation.

1) The NFL game and the NCAA game are still way different from each other. The gap is closing in style of play, but the NFL has a very specific style of play for the most part. If you were to take team & player names off of box scores, it would be very difficult to even begin to narrow down and tell the teams apart. Not true in the NCAA. 

2) The SEC style of play is the closest you can get to an NFL style of play in college football. Just as in #1 though, it is beginning to change, but it is still very NFLish in how it is played. 

3) The NFL is very closed minded when it comes to what they want their football team to look like and be made up of personnel wise. Because of this, they are going to go with what they are familiar with more often than not. It is easy to "grade" an alabama box player on defense because A) they play a very NFL style of defense (predicated on stopping the run against TE formations etc) and B) they are playing that style of defense against offenses that play an NFL style of game. Unless a player is just miles ahead, why take a risk on a Big 12 box player who you haven't seen play against many TE run game teams, when you can take the SEC kid who you have a really good idea of what he can do defending NFL type offenses.

4) Because of the thoughts in #3, offensive players in the SEC are also valued higher. If you are good in the SEC on offense as an individual, you are good against NFL style defenses and you have played for the most part in an NFL style offense already. Same thought process goes here as far as grading and the risk of drafting a Big 12 WR vs. an SEC WR or a big 12 RB vs an SEC RB or really any offensive position for that matter. Is one better than the other? Impossible to tell in most cases, but familiarity and comfortability in what you are seeing on tape of a kid IMO outweighs the risk in most cases.

5) All of the above then comes back on recruiting and IMO is widening the gap between the Big 12 and the SEC, especially on the defensive side of the ball. If you are a box defensive player, why on earth would you go to the Big 12 and play against those offenses on a weekly basis, when you can go to the SEC, where your draft chances are much better, and perceptionally play a style of play much more similar to the NFL. 

And just to reiterate again, this is not a knock on any conference or style. And as I've mentioned I think the NFL to NCAA gap of playing style is starting to close, and I think the SEC vs Big 12 style of play gap is starting to close. But perception is reality and the NFL and SEC are alot more similar than the Big 12 and the SEC. Believe it or not, KK may have a big part in the NFL continuing to dip down into the NCAA for coaches/style of play. If he fails, the NFL may start to steer clear of that style of play.

[ETXfan16]

13 hours ago, WETSU said:

I honestly highly enjoy the stats talk. This whole my team is better than yours like you talked about is stuff I expect from 40 year old moms in the stands. I enjoy an educated debate. But to each his own. I do understand your points. 

I'm all for the stats, but it's when some  twist em or nit pick seasons is when I don't even bother.