Jump to content

Benefit of Ending Football?


mrclean69

Recommended Posts

39 minutes ago, mrclean69 said:

 

We know what QC is there's a thread very alive right now about that place. I believe QC became competitive in guys basketball the past few years. Made the guy head football and basketball,  weren't happy with football results fired him. Looked at max preps out of curiosity and their basketball program declined and didn't make playoffs for the first time in a few years. Is football helping or hurting the kids there? Is Mount Pleasant Chapel Hill getting the benefit of teamwork, hard work, competitiveness, ups and downs etc. without football? Yes. 

QC got fourth and was one and done in basketball. Stop the presses QC is a basketball skool. 😂

Chapel Hill for a basketball only school really ain’t that great. 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 minutes ago, JV_COACH said:

QC got fourth and was one and done in basketball. Stop the presses QC is a basketball skool. 😂

Chapel Hill for a basketball only school really ain’t that great. 

 

I’m not sure he meant they were a basketball school, could be wrong tho

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, TK4AD said:

Man don't be hating on her.  You are just jealous because your school isn't as progressive as QC is going to be.  I mean think about the publicity QC could get with that hire! 

Queen City is anything but progressive.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 4/12/2019 at 4:06 PM, Jerryhawk111 said:

I’m not sure he meant they were a basketball school, could be wrong tho

Thank you. For a school known for being bad at sports they became "competitive". This whole thread was just curiosity and playing devil's advocate to what I think is an interesting topic. IMO some schools like QC should try to become a Chapel Hill. Would Chapel Hill be a basketball school if they had to share time with football? They aren't beating teams because of athleticism. But like Nature Boy said never having it and getting rid of it are two different beasts. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

17 minutes ago, mrclean69 said:

Thank you. For a school known for being bad at sports they became "competitive". This whole thread was just curiosity and playing devil's advocate to what I think is an interesting topic. IMO some schools like QC should try to become a Chapel Hill. Would Chapel Hill be a basketball school if they had to share time with football? They aren't beating teams because of athleticism. But like Nature Boy said never having it and getting rid of it are two different beasts. 

Chapel Hill plays basketball well, but are they a basketball school? When was the last time they won state? Their AG program is the real deal tho. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think if it's  not reaching the point of being a severe safety issue, strap up the helmets and play. I was on a team at Tenaha that finished up 14 years of non-winning record seasons my junior year. As a senior, we went 9-1 in 1978. It's  ancient history but the Tigers have had many successes since.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

34 minutes ago, BEARDEDGOAT said:

Chapel Hill plays basketball well, but are they a basketball school? When was the last time they won state? Their AG program is the real deal tho. 

What's the requirements for being considered a basketball school? Do you have to win state to be considered a basketball school? if that's the case there are very few basketball schools

  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 4/12/2019 at 11:02 AM, mrclean69 said:

On this forum and others this topic comes up. Sometimes as a joke sometimes serious. Does there come a point that some schools should consider getting rid of football? Matt Stepp tweeted Somerville is on its 6th AD/HFC  in 6 years, and even asked the question. My question isn't about Somerville but this problem as a whole other places. Does there reach a point that the struggle of not just winning in football, but even being competitive and the constant turnover of coaches actually negatively affects kids enough to call it quits and focus elsewhere? 

I don't believe it's a football problem in Somerville, (also schools in similar situations).  The problem is a lack of leadership in the athletic department as a whole and support from the community.  The basketball team won 6 games! Best I can tell the baseball team is 0fer. There is not a vision or expectation to win in the boys program.  They have talent, always do!. The AD is the assistant Elem Principal for crying out loud.  Until schools like Somerville go all in with their athletic program it will continue to suffer. Their facilities are subpar, their pay is subpar, that equals poor quality coaching staff as a whole, I know some of the guys that have been the head football coach there. They we were quality guys however when you surround quality coaches with subpar assistants the results are 6 coaches in 6 years!  You can't hire a talented guy, not pay him, work him to death, frustrate the guy and expect the him to stick around! Doesn't work. Somerville is a prime example I could name a couple more places. Here is an example of you get what you pay for https://www.theeagle.com/brazos_sports/somerville-football-coach-greg-bagby-resigns/article_a6353728-5b4c-11e9-9343-131419444a1b.htm (One boys coach left on staff!!)

Anyone want to bet that there is no real real strength and conditioning program teaching those young men character, accountability, and  work ethic in Somerville?  Click on a video clip in Maxpreps and watch those kids walk around during the play! 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

50 minutes ago, Strike51 said:

I don't believe it's a football problem in Somerville, (also schools in similar situations).  The problem is a lack of leadership in the athletic department as a whole and support from the community.  The basketball team won 6 games! Best I can tell the baseball team is 0fer. There is not a vision or expectation to win in the boys program.  They have talent, always do!. The AD is the assistant Elem Principal for crying out loud.  Until schools like Somerville go all in with their athletic program it will continue to suffer. Their facilities are subpar, their pay is subpar, that equals poor quality coaching staff as a whole, I know some of the guys that have been the head football coach there. They we were quality guys however when you surround quality coaches with subpar assistants the results are 6 coaches in 6 years!  You can't hire a talented guy, not pay him, work him to death, frustrate the guy and expect the him to stick around! Doesn't work. Somerville is a prime example I could name a couple more places. Here is an example of you get what you pay for https://www.theeagle.com/brazos_sports/somerville-football-coach-greg-bagby-resigns/article_a6353728-5b4c-11e9-9343-131419444a1b.htm (One boys coach left on staff!!)

Anyone want to bet that there is no real real strength and conditioning program teaching those young men character, accountability, and  work ethic in Somerville?  Click on a video clip in Maxpreps and watch those kids walk around during the play! 

So the solution is pay better? Invest in better facilities? Not being sarcastic, being serious. Wondering what you feel can turn the ship around 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Strike51 said:

I don't believe it's a football problem in Somerville, (also schools in similar situations).  The problem is a lack of leadership in the athletic department as a whole and support from the community.  The basketball team won 6 games! Best I can tell the baseball team is 0fer. There is not a vision or expectation to win in the boys program.  They have talent, always do!. The AD is the assistant Elem Principal for crying out loud.  Until schools like Somerville go all in with their athletic program it will continue to suffer. Their facilities are subpar, their pay is subpar, that equals poor quality coaching staff as a whole, I know some of the guys that have been the head football coach there. They we were quality guys however when you surround quality coaches with subpar assistants the results are 6 coaches in 6 years!  You can't hire a talented guy, not pay him, work him to death, frustrate the guy and expect the him to stick around! Doesn't work. Somerville is a prime example I could name a couple more places. Here is an example of you get what you pay for https://www.theeagle.com/brazos_sports/somerville-football-coach-greg-bagby-resigns/article_a6353728-5b4c-11e9-9343-131419444a1b.htm (One boys coach left on staff!!)

Anyone want to bet that there is no real real strength and conditioning program teaching those young men character, accountability, and  work ethic in Somerville?  Click on a video clip in Maxpreps and watch those kids walk around during the play! 

If that HC had gotten there and been putting in a ton of effort and those coaches were doing all that nonsense and losing their jobs, you know it would have become more than hopeless to him quickly! You keep working hard, but no telling what is going on in the undercurrent...he was looking for open positions at this time (which would have been the time as teachers and coaches that we would be looking, after he probably had to sign his next yearly contract). Some school contacted them for a reference, and bang he's in the crosshairs. It's awfully tough...I have been in similar situations where you work yourself to death knowing no help is on the way...on team trips out of state, school credit cards don't work and the AD says "just put everything for meals and team hotel rooms on your cards and the school will reimburse" at some point. That doesn't really work for everybody. 

Some people may say "hey I only have one life to live as well and I can find an opportunity that make me happier, uses my talents in a better way, pays me better (which will also help his retirement), (and if they have the flexibility to move around then) find me a more exciting place to live for me and my family!"

Not to say that Somerville or any small town isn't a great place to be, but if there isn't an investment or buy-in then it'll be hard to have success or hold on to a coach.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

19 hours ago, Strike51 said:

If a district invests in the program they will attract better coaches who will stay longer which in turn creates better results.  That's really all I am saying! 

What you spend your money on shows what you really care about. It is true for every individual and it is definitely true of every School District. If a School District will invest in the Athletic Program and put money into stipends and budgets then the quality of the product on the field/court will improve.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

25 minutes ago, playactionpass39 said:

What you spend your money on shows what you really care about. It is true for every individual and it is definitely true of every School District. If a School District will invest in the Athletic Program and put money into stipends and budgets then the quality of the product on the field/court will improve.

I tend to believe it's going to be the whole package that makes the difference. If I'm looking at a school, I'm looking at where their school's paybase is in relation to the state & others in the region/state they compete with. Realistically, if a school doesn't have a paybase that is at or above their competition locally - then you're looking at an issue probably (behind the 8-ball). The stipends are great, but if that base is lower than everyone around or the competition, then your working your sport just to get back "even" financially. You could find yourself bitter and unappreciated. Know your competition and have some historical knowledge of the program you're getting in to. The facilities/budget money has to be available to help you. --> You need to have top notch facilities & equipment. As a coach, you have to hope you can get a favorable academic schedule as well if you're teaching "regular academic" classes as well, because it will allow you do a better job on both sides of your duties to help your students to the best of your abilities.   RULE #1   No one will take your team seriously, if you don't!!!  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I get what you guys are saying about investing in the program to make coaches stay, but how much would you have to invest for a program that has absolutely no shot at winning? What’s your limit on keeping coaches through the talent drought years?

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 4/21/2019 at 8:23 AM, ronnyham said:

I get what you guys are saying about investing in the program to make coaches stay, but how much would you have to invest for a program that has absolutely no shot at winning? What’s your limit on keeping coaches through the talent drought years?

 

then as a school, just have a big physical education program (intramural style)...offering club style sports for the kids, playing in house (3 on 3 nerf flag football, 3 on 3 b-ball, wiffle gym baseball, etc)...if played after school then coached by parents...no different than AAU type or leagues. as I told a college AD once, if you aren't going all out to win (investing in it), then shut it down and just have PE/intramurals. you're doing more bad PR (for school) and emotional/mental (for kids/players) for them to have to take beatings constantly. some can't deal with it and it affects them in ways forever...may some it moves them to push harder forever, BUT for many it makes them hate competition and "breaks them"...all depends on how they are brought up and coached and again, you guys are point blank from the jump saying, "well, we can't win so we aren't going to invest in to even try." circular loss theory.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

25 minutes ago, CoachPelvisPresley said:

then as a school, just have a big physical education program (intramural style)...offering club style sports for the kids, playing in house (3 on 3 nerf flag football, 3 on 3 b-ball, wiffle gym baseball, etc)...if played after school then coached by parents...no different than AAU type or leagues. as I told a college AD once, if you aren't going all out to win (investing in it), then shut it down and just have PE/intramurals. you're doing more PR (for school) and emotional/mental (for kids/players) for them to have to take beatings constantly. some can't deal with it and it affects them in ways forever...may some it moves them to push harder forever, BUT for many it makes them hate competition and "breaks them"...all depends on how they are brought up and coached and again, you guys are point blank from the jump saying, "well, we can't win so we aren't going to invest in to even try." circular loss theory.

I completely agree with you. I was simply asking how much is too much for some schools. I think that’s how some schools operate. They draw the line and say this is our cap on investing. After that winning isn’t important enough to them to invest anymore. It’s what separates a lot of places 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 4/12/2019 at 2:38 PM, Qcsnowflakes said:

This isn't the 1950's.  I mean a lady ran for president last election and won the popular vote.  It's coming and QC might as well be on the forefront of progressivism!!

No, Hillary Clinton ran for POTUS and (thankfully) was defeated. You said “a lady”. 

  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 weeks later...
On 4/12/2019 at 11:02 AM, mrclean69 said:

On this forum and others this topic comes up. Sometimes as a joke sometimes serious. Does there come a point that some schools should consider getting rid of football? Matt Stepp tweeted Somerville is on its 6th AD/HFC  in 6 years, and even asked the question. My question isn't about Somerville but this problem as a whole other places. Does there reach a point that the struggle of not just winning in football, but even being competitive and the constant turnover of coaches actually negatively affects kids enough to call it quits and focus elsewhere? 

When is the right time to throw in the towel? Is there a right time? If the kids still want to play, I don't think you can cancel a sport unless finances just won't hold up. Like was said above, if the community wants it and the kids want it....invest in it! Pay your coaches competitively and upgrade your facilities!

I know of a school in West Texas who cancelled their baseball program because "they were not successful and participation is low." Not successful - true. Low participation - not necessarily. Funny thing - their girls basketball team won a state title 2 or 3 years before baseball was removed after being a complete doormat for the better part of three decades. This includes multiple seasons of less than 10 wins and a couple of one-and-done playoff appearances. Why the different philosophies? If the baseball program gets the ax, girls hoop should have been removed years earlier by the same criteria. Well, thank goodness they didn't. Baseball should've received the same consideration. I stand by my statement above.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...