💣 The impeachment of Donald Trump

[CarthDawg77]

2 hours ago, WestHardinfan1 said:

I'm betting the Senate simply votes to dismiss it with no trial.......and the dimtards are saying they'll delay presenting the articles to the Senate...which is irrelevant...the Senate can go ahead and meet and dismiss them any point after they are passed in the House......

They’re all ’s

[BarryLaverty]

Nancy helped him accomplish this, so there is that. 

Edited December 19, 2019 by BarryLaverty

[DaveTV1]

3 hours ago, BarryLaverty said:

Nancy helped him accomplish this, so there is that. 

Not a single vote from a Republican, yet you think that the Senate is going to go full bore.  I wouldn't even call this a victory, because it still has to go before the Senate, and Nancy is dragging her feet  on sending the articles to the Senate.  She wants it done her way, and only her way.  That's not how it works.  This was an utter failure, and a waste of taxpayer money.  

[BarryLaverty]

This Christian magazine called for Clinton to be removed, and it lays out a compelling case for why Trump should be removed. 

 

https://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2019/december-web-only/trump-should-be-removed-from-office.html

 

VIEWS 

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EDITORIAL

Trump Should Be Removed from Office

It’s time to say what we said 20 years ago when a president’s character was revealed for what it was.

MARK GALLIDECEMBER 19, 2019

Image: Drew Angerer / Staff / Getty Images

 

In our founding documents, Billy Graham explains that Christianity Today will help evangelical Christians interpret the news in a manner that reflects their faith. The impeachment of Donald Trump is a significant event in the story of our republic. It requires comment.

The typical CT approach is to stay above the fray and allow Christians with different political convictions to make their arguments in the public square, to encourage all to pursue justice according to their convictions and treat their political opposition as charitably as possible. We want CT to be a place that welcomes Christians from across the political spectrum, and reminds everyone that politics is not the end and purpose of our being. We take pride in the fact, for instance, that politics does not dominate our homepage.

That said, we do feel it necessary from time to time to make our own opinions on political matters clear—always, as Graham encouraged us, doing so with both conviction and love. We love and pray for our president, as we love and pray for leaders (as well as ordinary citizens) on both sides of the political aisle.

Let’s grant this to the president: The Democrats have had it out for him from day one, and therefore nearly everything they do is under a cloud of partisan suspicion. This has led many to suspect not only motives but facts in these recent impeachment hearings. And, no, Mr. Trump did not have a serious opportunity to offer his side of the story in the House hearings on impeachment.

But the facts in this instance are unambiguous: The president of the United States attempted to use his political power to coerce a foreign leader to harass and discredit one of the president’s political opponents. That is not only a violation of the Constitution; more importantly, it is profoundly immoral.

The reason many are not shocked about this is that this president has dumbed down the idea of morality in his administration. He has hired and fired a number of people who are now convicted criminals. He himself has admitted to immoral actions in business and his relationship with women, about which he remains proud. His Twitter feed alone—with its habitual string of mischaracterizations, lies, and slanders—is a near perfect example of a human being who is morally lost and confused.

Trump’s evangelical supporters have pointed to his Supreme Court nominees, his defense of religious liberty, and his stewardship of the economy, among other things, as achievements that justify their support of the president. We believe the impeachment hearings have made it absolutely clear, in a way the Mueller investigation did not, that President Trump has abused his authority for personal gain and betrayed his constitutional oath. The impeachment hearings have illuminated the president’s moral deficiencies for all to see. This damages the institution of the presidency, damages the reputation of our country, and damages both the spirit and the future of our people. None of the president’s positives can balance the moral and political danger we face under a leader of such grossly immoral character.

This concern for the character of our national leader is not new in CT. In 1998, we wrote this:

The President's failure to tell the truth—even when cornered—rips at the fabric of the nation. This is not a private affair. For above all, social intercourse is built on a presumption of trust: trust that the milk your grocer sells you is wholesome and pure; trust that the money you put in your bank can be taken out of the bank; trust that your babysitter, firefighters, clergy, and ambulance drivers will all do their best. And while politicians are notorious for breaking campaign promises, while in office they have a fundamental obligation to uphold our trust in them and to live by the law.

And this:

Unsavory dealings and immoral acts by the President and those close to him have rendered this administration morally unable to lead.

Unfortunately, the words that we applied to Mr. Clinton 20 years ago apply almost perfectly to our current president. Whether Mr. Trump should be removed from office by the Senate or by popular vote next election—that is a matter of prudential judgment. That he should be removed, we believe, is not a matter of partisan loyalties but loyalty to the Creator of the Ten Commandments.

To the many evangelicals who continue to support Mr. Trump in spite of his blackened moral record, we might say this: Remember who you are and whom you serve. Consider how your justification of Mr. Trump influences your witness to your Lord and Savior. Consider what an unbelieving world will say if you continue to brush off Mr. Trump’s immoral words and behavior in the cause of political expediency. If we don’t reverse course now, will anyone take anything we say about justice and righteousness with any seriousness for decades to come? Can we say with a straight face that abortion is a great evil that cannot be tolerated and, with the same straight face, say that the bent and broken character of our nation’s leader doesn’t really matter in the end?

We have reserved judgment on Mr. Trump for years now. Some have criticized us for our reserve. But when it comes to condemning the behavior of another, patient charity must come first. So we have done our best to give evangelical Trump supporters their due, to try to understand their point of view, to see the prudential nature of so many political decisions they have made regarding Mr. Trump. To use an old cliché, it’s time to call a spade a spade, to say that no matter how many hands we win in this political poker game, we are playing with a stacked deck of gross immorality and ethical incompetence. And just when we think it’s time to push all our chips to the center of the table, that’s when the whole game will come crashing down. It will crash down on the reputation of evangelical religion and on the world’s understanding of the gospel. And it will come crashing down on a nation of men and women whose welfare is also our concern.

Mark Galli is editor in chief of Christianity Today.

[RETIREDFAN1]

That denominationalist should learn what True New Testament Christianity is before he tries to spout off on anything else......

[Wild74]

This is all you need to know about this article

Franklin Graham

9 hours ago

My Response to Christianity Today:

Christianity Today released an editorial stating that President Trump should be removed from office—and they invoked my father’s name (I suppose to try to bring legitimacy to their statements), so I feel it is important for me to respond. Yes, my father Billy Graham founded Christianity Today; but no, he would not agree with their opinion piece. In fact, he would be very disappointed. I have not previously shared who my father voted for in the past election, but because of this article, I feel it is necessary to share it now. My father knew Donald Trump, he believed in Donald Trump, and he voted for Donald Trump. He believed that Donald J. Trump was the man for this hour in history for our nation.

[Wild74]

Christianity Today said it’s time to call a spade a spade. The spade is this—Christianity Today has been used by the left for their political agenda. It’s obvious that Christianity Today has moved to the left and is representing the elitist liberal wing of evangelicalism.

Is President Trump guilty of sin? Of course he is, as were all past presidents and as each one of us are, including myself. Therefore, let’s pray for the President as he continues to lead the affairs of our nation.

[BarryLaverty]

So, Franklin Graham, not associated with Christianity Today, continues to defend and rationalize the obvious lack of morals, the sinful actions, of Trump, by A. Invoking his dead father, B. Not actually addressing the message of the editorial, C. Acting as if he is speaking for all Christians? Did I get that right, Wild? I know you just copied and pasted all by the first sentence of your first post, but I wanted to run those thoughts by you. 

[NightStar11]

Impeachment will not get by Senate. Trump likely will win bigger in 2020. 

[Mr. P]

[Mr. P]

2 hours ago, BarryLaverty said:

Unfortunately, the words that we applied to Mr. Clinton 20 years ago apply almost perfectly to our current president. Whether Mr. Trump should be removed from office by the Senate or by popular vote next election—that is a matter of prudential judgment. That he should be removed, we believe, is not a matter of partisan loyalties but loyalty to the Creator of the Ten Commandments.

Except CT did not actually call for Clinton to step down/be removed...  so their contention is disingenuous RE: Trump. 

[BarryLaverty]

So, was it true 20 years ago that Clinton was morally unfit? Was there a preponderance of evidence that Ken Starr and the GOP were morally pure enough to move forward with impeachment on him? Was that the standard? Attacking the source doesn't defend the man.  That thinking conflates the issue regarding Trump's moral fitness and that of a Christian's moral  and spiritual compass. The question is: IS TRUMP A MORAL LEADER THAT SHOULD BE SUPPORTED? 

[Mr. P]

[Mr. P]

[Mr. P]

[Mr. P]

[Mr. P]

Imagine you have three choices to select for a secular leader...

1. A candidate with a good moral and ethical appearance, who won't support moral public policy.
2. A candidate with a good moral and ethical appearance, who supports immoral public policy.
3. A candidate of known immoral and unethical conduct, who supports moral public policy. 

We've had all three as president in recent years. 

[Mr. P]

Interesting article from CNN: https://www.cnn.com/2019/12/19/politics/christianity-today-op-ed-trump-removal-office/index.html

Quote

"Whether Mr. Trump should be removed from office by the Senate or by popular vote next election—that is a matter of prudential judgment," Christianity Today's editor in chief, Mark Galli, wrote in the op-ed. "That he should be removed, we believe, is not a matter of partisan loyalties but loyalty to the Creator of the Ten Commandments."

Galli, who told CNN's John Berman on Friday he is leaving the publication, continued, "We believe the impeachment hearings have made it absolutely clear, in a way the Mueller investigation did not, that President Trump has abused his authority for personal gain and betrayed his constitutional oath. The impeachment hearings have illuminated the president's moral deficiencies for all to see."

"None of the president's positives can balance the moral and political danger we face under a leader of such grossly immoral character," he added.

Hmm...

Quote

Galli, who told CNN's John Berman on Friday he is leaving the publication, continued, "We believe the impeachment hearings have made it absolutely clear, in a way the Mueller investigation did not, that President Trump has abused his authority for personal gain and betrayed his constitutional oath. The impeachment hearings have illuminated the president's moral deficiencies for all to see."

Stunning and brave... 

Quote

he is leaving the publication...

So with one foot out the door, he lobs this hand-grenade of a screed into the evangelical maelstrom.

 

I bet he's getting a cushy gig at The Atlantic or something. 

[BarryLaverty]

Actually, as he is in his 60s, I believe he is retiring. Maybe he thought he could make a difference while he still had a forum of influence. 

[Mr. P]

5 minutes ago, BarryLaverty said:

Actually, as he is in his 60s, I believe he is retiring. Maybe he thought he could make a difference while he still had a forum of influence. 

CT is all but irrelevant in evangelical circles. 

The only difference his screed will make will be to hasten CT's irrelevance.

 

Something something woke, something something broke.  

[RETIREDFAN1]

Just because one CLAIMS to be a Christian does not make it so.....here is what God said on this matter..

 

 STUDY THIS

Matthew 7:21-23

Matthew 7:21-23 English Standard Version (ESV) I Never Knew You 21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ 23 And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’

 

[BarryLaverty]

24 minutes ago, WestHardinfan1 said:

Just because one CLAIMS to be a Christian does not make it so.....here is what God said on this matter..

 

 STUDY THIS

Matthew 7:21-23

Matthew 7:21-23 English Standard Version (ESV) I Never Knew You 21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ 23 And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’

 

Are you saying that because this man criticized Trump that it makes him not a Christian? Wow. 

[RETIREDFAN1]

No, I'm saying because he teaches things doctrinally that are in error he is not.....his politics are irrelevant.....

[Monte1076]

10 hours ago, BarryLaverty said:

So, Franklin Graham, not associated with Christianity Today, continues to defend and rationalize the obvious lack of morals, the sinful actions, of Trump, by A. Invoking his dead father, B. Not actually addressing the message of the editorial, C. Acting as if he is speaking for all Christians? Did I get that right, Wild? I know you just copied and pasted all by the first sentence of your first post, but I wanted to run those thoughts by you. 

Simple question, Barry: Do you believe Clinton should have been removed from office?

[DaveTV1]

10 hours ago, Wild74 said:

This is all you need to know about this article

Franklin Graham

9 hours ago

My Response to Christianity Today:

Christianity Today released an editorial stating that President Trump should be removed from office—and they invoked my father’s name (I suppose to try to bring legitimacy to their statements), so I feel it is important for me to respond. Yes, my father Billy Graham founded Christianity Today; but no, he would not agree with their opinion piece. In fact, he would be very disappointed. I have not previously shared who my father voted for in the past election, but because of this article, I feel it is necessary to share it now. My father knew Donald Trump, he believed in Donald Trump, and he voted for Donald Trump. He believed that Donald J. Trump was the man for this hour in history for our nation.

Amen to Brother Graham.  Trump was calling only for the Ukraine to investigate the possible crimes of Hunter Biden.  He was not requesting an investigation of Joe Biden, unless his quid pro quo for his son violated any international laws.  Christianity Today should be rebuked for there error, and repent.