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John Tyler Vs McKinney North “Thursday Night Game”


NODAYSOFFTX

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29 minutes ago, Mavchamp said:

IMHO.......

JT's deep playoff run last season was in spite of their non-district schedule.  Not because of it.

The Lions improved as the season progressed.  Especially in district.

 

JT fans are acting like they turned into North Shore because of those games last season. They still almost lost to Poteet and had two close games against average or bad teams in district later on in the season. They probably got better, but they didn’t turn into a great team because of the non district. 

I also wouldn’t compare the two seasons. The Qb was better last year and you had better weapons on offense. 

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1 hour ago, Mavchamp said:

I never said you should be playing cupcakes.  

I actually said....  "you don't want a patsy non-district schedule.... but getting pummelled is equally counter-productive"

You wouldn't agree that  a close win or a close loss wouldn't be more productive than getting bombed by Longview or Euless Trinity?

Say.... a 31-28 game (win or lose) would be more effective than a blowout loss?

Seems to be a no-brainer to me.

JMHO.

If you have close win against a lower tiered team then they gonna talk about how you barley won against and ok team.. it’s a never ending cycle. You never just win a game with JT.  

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47 minutes ago, Pack007 said:

JT fans are acting like they turned into North Shore because of those games last season. They still almost lost to Poteet and had two close games against average or bad teams in district later on in the season. They probably got better, but they didn’t turn into a great team because of the non district. 

I also wouldn’t compare the two seasons. The Qb was better last year and you had better weapons on offense. 

You were one of the people that picked us to lose to poteet because of how bad we played in the preseason last year.. 

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I would take a 31-28 win or loss to Corsicana over a 52-0 loss over Longview any day of the week and twice on Sunday.

If that close game doesn't tell you anything about your team...... I don't know what does.

All that bombing taught us was that Longview is light years ahead of us and we have no business playing them.

I can't think of a single redeeming quality of that game.

I felt the same way about the JT/lngview game.

JMHO

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1 minute ago, NODAYSOFFTX said:

You were one of the people that picked us to lose to poteet because of how bad we played in the preseason last year.. 

I also picked JT to win most of their district games last season... which they did.

Don't cherry pick my selections to prove your point.

Poteet was the lone district game I recall picking against JT last season.

 

 

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8 minutes ago, Mavchamp said:

I also picked JT to win most of their district games last season... which they did.

Don't cherry pick my selections to prove your point.

Poteet was the lone district game I recall picking against JT last season.

 

 

No I was talking about pack when I said he picked against us, like most people did. Some people really thought we were gonna miss the playoffs last season. Some think we still are this season.. not saying it’s you 

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17 minutes ago, NODAYSOFFTX said:

You were one of the people that picked us to lose to poteet because of how bad we played in the preseason last year.. 

I didn’t see it in the thread. I went back and looked. I even picked y’all in an early season thread as darkhorse for R2. 🤔

Regardless...doesn’t change the fact that you barely beat them. And didn’t change into a great team later on in the season because of non district.

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3 minutes ago, NODAYSOFFTX said:

No I was talking about pack when I said he picked against us, like most people did. Some people really thought we were gonna miss the playoffs last season. Some think we still are this season.. not saying it’s you 

I would have been shocked to see JT not make the playoffs.  Even when they were 0-3... and they were just as bad against Longview as Marshall was.

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29 minutes ago, Mavchamp said:

I would take a 31-28 win or loss to Corsicana over a 52-0 loss over Longview any day of the week and twice on Sunday.

If that close game doesn't tell you anything about your team...... I don't know what does.

 

I understand your points, but the only way to get better is to play better competition.  Yes JT got blown out against LV (the Trinity game was a decisive win but not a blowout), but you get better going forward. You may think the LV game didn't help but actually it does. If you play stronger faster compeition, it makes you get stronger and faster. 

I remember as a kid playing against the older kids in the neighborhood in basketball and getting beat down everyday.  But every week I came back, I got better and better and those games got closer and closer and it made me much better against my peers.  If I would have been playing kids on my level or below, I would have never improved at the rate I did. I knew I needed to practice more and harder. Get stronger, etc. 

The improvement is gradual and comes down the road.  You start playing lower and average teams, your team will become complacent.

also, better teams usually have better coaching staffs.  So playing better teams also helps to coaches identify their flaws.  I have seen many people on smoaky complain about their teams weak non district schedules, because it didn't test them or show what flaws they have. That is what you get when you play teams you know you can beat. You wan't to play teams that show you what you need to work on.

and one final thing, when you get to a certain level, its hard to schedule teams.  Alot ot teams have this same mentality of only wanting to schedule teams they can beat or be competiive with. Some times, a coach is left with no choice but to find who is willing to play them.

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37 minutes ago, Mavchamp said:

 

All that bombing taught us was that Longview is light years ahead of us and we have no business playing them.

 

you took the wrong lesson from that game in my opinion. The lesson you should have learned is that something has gone wrong in Marshall and that the Mavs need to improve. At one point in history you guys were very competitive with Longview.   You should continue to want to play them to see if your program is getting better. Unless you are content with just beating the other school in Longview  (Pine Tree).  I feel like you will never get to Longview level by playing down in competition. 

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1 hour ago, NODAYSOFFTX said:

It showed us what we were bad at. And what we needed work on. You can’t find that out playing cupcakes

+100

I don't think JT turned into some juggernaut last yr, but at one point in the season the expectations for that team was pretty low. By the end of the yr, I 100% believe JT was one of the top 5 (probably top 3) teams in 5a div.1.  I believe if JT didn't play a tough schedule and take some beat downs, they would have never improved to being one of the best teams in 5a div.1 and being the best team in 5a div.1 is really all that matters.

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1 hour ago, JTFAN99 said:

I understand your points, but the only way to get better is to play better competition.  Yes JT got blown out against LV (the Trinity game was a decisive win but not a blowout), but you get better going forward. You may think the LV game didn't help but actually it does. If you play stronger faster compeition, it makes you get stronger and faster. 

I remember as a kid playing against the older kids in the neighborhood in basketball and getting beat down everyday.  But every week I came back, I got better and better and those games got closer and closer and it made me much better against my peers.  If I would have been playing kids on my level or below, I would have never improved at the rate I did. I knew I needed to practice more and harder. Get stronger, etc. 

The improvement is gradual and comes down the road.  You start playing lower and average teams, your team will become complacent.

also, better teams usually have better coaching staffs.  So playing better teams also helps to coaches identify their flaws.  I have seen many people on smoaky complain about their teams weak non district schedules, because it didn't test them or show what flaws they have. That is what you get when you play teams you know you can beat. You wan't to play teams that show you what you need to work on.

and one final thing, when you get to a certain level, its hard to schedule teams.  Alot ot teams have this same mentality of only wanting to schedule teams they can beat or be competiive with. Some times, a coach is left with no choice but to find who is willing to play them.

This is exactly what I’m been trying to say!!! Why would you wanna beat on teams you know you can beat! You gain NOTHING! I rather go 0-4 in the preseason and have state contending runs than to beat up on pine tree and some of the local teams and don’t even know how good we really are. Look at TH Started 3-1 played that cupcake schedule everyone thought they were better and look at them now 0-3 and possibly gonna miss the playoffs.... JT 0-4 tougher preseason schedule and now we are 3-0 and have a chance  at a district title..

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44 minutes ago, JTFAN99 said:

you took the wrong lesson from that game in my opinion. The lesson you should have learned is that something has gone wrong in Marshall and that the Mavs need to improve. At one point in history you guys were very competitive with Longview.   You should continue to want to play them to see if your program is getting better. Unless you are content with just beating the other school in Longview  (Pine Tree).  I feel like you will never get to Longview level by playing down in competition. 

Learned that something has gone wrong in Marshall??
That depends on perspective.  YES....Longview has owned us since 2000.  But at the same time... since 2000, Marshall still has two state title appearances (2004, 2005), four region semi-final appearances (2007, 2009, 2015, 2018), and has been in the playoffs every season from 2004-2019 minus three seasons (2006, 2011, 2012).  What we've learned is that we can still have a successful season no matter how badly Longview beats us.  Most of the losses in the last 20 years have been non-district games.

As far as why Longview has come to dominate the series..... those are pretty simple reasons IMHO. 

1.  LHS's enrollment has seen slow steady growth the last 20 years.  MHS, like most of East Texas 5A,  has seen decline in enrollment.

2.  Consistency with the staff.  Is there a program in East Texas with fewer changes at HFC than Longview in the last 30 years?  I doubt it.  There is NO QUESTION that helps.  King has built upon and improved a system that was laid by long-term coaches that came before him; Collins, Bero, etc.  Meanwhile we are on HFC #7 since 2000.

3.  Three middle school feeders for LHS Vs one for MHS.  Each of those schools probably have two 8th grade teams.  That's six teams feeding in to Longview.... Vs. two for MHS.  No question they have a MUCH deeper pool of talent to pick from.

4.  More disciplined play by the Lobos.  It's not a complete Longview-Marshal game without 3-4 turnovers by the Mavs.  Overall.... the Lobos play a cleaner more disciplined game than Marshall.  Fewer turnovers.  Less opportunities to score.

5.  They are just better than us.  Period.  They are better than 90% of the teams in 5A most seasons.  There IS a reason they classify schools.  We don't have to beat them to have a good season.  We have to worry about teams like Aledo, Manvel, A&M Consolidated, etc, etc, etc..... Not Longview.  

--------

Content with just beating the other school in Longview??? 
We have been in the same district with PT ever since we dropped down in 2002.... It's not like we said.... hey! Let's schedule PT every season!   We have no control over who we play in district.  UIL puts us together and there ya go.  We've gone (15-2) against them since then.  Not bragging about it.  We're well aware that PT isn't Longview..... but they are on our schedule.... so we take care of business against them.

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5 minutes ago, NODAYSOFFTX said:

This is exactly what I’m been trying to say!!! Why would you wanna beat on teams you know you can beat! You gain NOTHING! I rather go 0-4 in the preseason and have state contending runs than to beat up on pine tree and some of the local teams and don’t even know how good we really are. Look at TH Started 3-1 played that cupcake schedule everyone thought they were better and look at them now 0-3 and possibly gonna miss the playoffs.... JT 0-4 tougher preseason schedule and now we are 3-0 and have a chance  at a district title..

You keep saying people are wanting to play cupcake teams.

Who is saying that?  

I literally can't see a single person say that on ANY post in ANY thread.

You're preaching to the choir with me.  Our (0-3) start came against teams that are currently (17-1) on the season.

I do think the Lee game made us better.  A 27-20 slobber knocker in the rain.  A disappointing loss...but I do think it made us better.

The loss to Carthage at least pointed us in the direction of who the starting QB needed to be.

Longview..... well.  The nachos were delicious.  That's about it.

 

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1 hour ago, JTFAN99 said:

+100

I don't think JT turned into some juggernaut last yr, but at one point in the season the expectations for that team was pretty low. By the end of the yr, I 100% believe JT was one of the top 5 (probably top 3) teams in 5a div.1.

That says more about the competition within the division than anything IMO.

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1 hour ago, Pack007 said:

I didn’t see it in the thread. I went back and looked. I even picked y’all in an early season thread as darkhorse for R2. 🤔

Regardless...doesn’t change the fact that you barely beat them. And didn’t change into a great team later on in the season because of non district.

Still trying to figure out when i picked Poteet in that game 

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7 hours ago, Mavchamp said:

Learned that something has gone wrong in Marshall??
That depends on perspective.  YES....Longview has owned us since 2000.  But at the same time... since 2000, Marshall still has two state title appearances (2004, 2005), four region semi-final appearances (2007, 2009, 2015, 2018), and has been in the playoffs every season from 2004-2019 minus three seasons (2006, 2011, 2012).  What we've learned is that we can still have a successful season no matter how badly Longview beats us.  Most of the losses in the last 20 years have been non-district games.

As far as why Longview has come to dominate the series..... those are pretty simple reasons IMHO. 

1.  LHS's enrollment has seen slow steady growth the last 20 years.  MHS, like most of East Texas 5A,  has seen decline in enrollment.

2.  Consistency with the staff.  Is there a program in East Texas with fewer changes at HFC than Longview in the last 30 years?  I doubt it.  There is NO QUESTION that helps.  King has built upon and improved a system that was laid by long-term coaches that came before him; Collins, Bero, etc.  Meanwhile we are on HFC #7 since 2000.

3.  Three middle school feeders for LHS Vs one for MHS.  Each of those schools probably have two 8th grade teams.  That's six teams feeding in to Longview.... Vs. two for MHS.  No question they have a MUCH deeper pool of talent to pick from.

4.  More disciplined play by the Lobos.  It's not a complete Longview-Marshal game without 3-4 turnovers by the Mavs.  Overall.... the Lobos play a cleaner more disciplined game than Marshall.  Fewer turnovers.  Less opportunities to score.

5.  They are just better than us.  Period.  They are better than 90% of the teams in 5A most seasons.  There IS a reason they classify schools.  We don't have to beat them to have a good season.  We have to worry about teams like Aledo, Manvel, A&M Consolidated, etc, etc, etc..... Not Longview.  

--------

Content with just beating the other school in Longview??? 
We have been in the same district with PT ever since we dropped down in 2002.... It's not like we said.... hey! Let's schedule PT every season!   We have no control over who we play in district.  UIL puts us together and there ya go.  We've gone (15-2) against them since then.  Not bragging about it.  We're well aware that PT isn't Longview..... but they are on our schedule.... so we take care of business against them.

Mav, no need for all the stats, I agree that the Mavs have been a sold program. And I know demographics and enrollments have changed.  Everybody enrollment and demographics in East TX have changed. Even Longview and JT. Despite what you think, Longview enrollment has actually slightly decreased over the past 20 yrs, although its starting to go back up.  And both JT and LV black population have had significant drops. As much as I understand this can affect a program, I just watch Carthage beat you guys two yrs in a row with half the enrollment. 

I feel like you are giving in to a mentality of accepting the new status quo,  when you say that Marshall shouldn't play LV anymore because the scores are blowouts. Im a competitive person, if I got beat bad by some one close to my peer group,  I wouldn't take my ball and go home. I would want to keep playing them to try to get better. 

And  the Pine Tree comment  literally went over your head.  Of course I know Marshall has to play Pine Tree because they are in your district.  The point of my comment is that beating Pine Tree seems to be good enough for you, when really beating Longview should be the goal...(whether you think you can achieve it or not). Nothing against Pine Tree because they have improved alot, but lets be honest, you don't have to be that great to beat Pine Tree at this time and the fact Pine Tree has beat Marshall twice in the last 20 yrs is kinda bad.

by the way, I realize JT is probably not much better than Marshall this yr. 

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If everyone is healthy for McNorth then McNorth by 14+  If you can hold their offense to 21 then you are really good on defense since they are averaging over 50 a game.  Lowest output of the season in week 1 with 44. I just don’t see JT scoring consistently enough to win - even against McNorth’s D. 

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2 hours ago, bingosmith said:

If everyone is healthy for McNorth then McNorth by 14+  If you can hold their offense to 21 then you are really good on defense since they are averaging over 50 a game.  Lowest output of the season in week 1 with 44. I just don’t see JT scoring consistently enough to win - even against McNorth’s D. 

We played the best defense statically in district and put up almost 40 I’m pretty sure we could put up 40 on the statistically the worst defense in the district. 

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5 hours ago, NODAYSOFFTX said:

I was thinking more so 30 points to be more realistic but that’s fine too lol 

I was thinking more like 38, because now I know we are capable of scoring 39 points. 😁. Now if we score 43, it has to be a win, because the most points we have given up is 42.lol, like that has something to do with wins and losses.lol

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