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ObiOne

Why have Division 1 and 2 in Football Only?

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I didn't want to hijack the UIL cutoff thread, but it got me thinking about this.  Why don't we have division 1 and 2 in basketball and baseball? 

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10 minutes ago, ObiOne said:

I didn't want to hijack the UIL cutoff thread, but it got me thinking about this.  Why don't we have division 1 and 2 in basketball and baseball? 

Their are 33 positions to fill in football. 5 in basketball and 9 in baseball. You can only play one game a week in football because it is the most physical of the team sports, in the others you could possible play 7.
In Basketball and Baseball you need two coaches, in football you need more. Football is the most team orientated sport of all the team sports.  
So the size of the schools playing against each other is a bigger factor ,compared to the other sports, so what we really have in Texas is 6 classifications, but in football we have 12 classifications. And the smaller the school the number of kids to choice from play a difference.  So it is really the most equitable thing to do is split up the conferences.

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I like splitting up of the conferences.  Just seems to me they should do it in all sports if doing it for equality.  A 4A school with 515 kids going up against another 4A school with 1200 kids just seems a lot lopsided....in basketball or baseball.  Wonder if anyone has ever run the numbers on the percentage of Div 2 teams in football that win state in baseball or basketball.  I'm sure it happens but I would bet the percentage is fairly low.

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A quick look at the state champs this past season for basketball and baseball.  All Div 1's unless I missed one.  Doesn't seem very equitable.

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6 minutes ago, ObiOne said:

A quick look at the state champs this past season for basketball and baseball.  All Div 1's unless I missed one.  Doesn't seem very equitable.

Silsbee was back to back state champs in basketball with DII enrollment.

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4 minutes ago, longhorncrazy said:

Silsbee was back to back state champs in basketball with DII enrollment.

Yep, looks like a couple years ago.  I just looked at this past season.  I imagine it happens with a dominate player or two in basketball more often than the other sports.  But it looks like schools don't have much of a  chance unless they are Div 1.  

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1 hour ago, ObiOne said:

I like splitting up of the conferences.  Just seems to me they should do it in all sports if doing it for equality.  A 4A school with 515 kids going up against another 4A school with 1200 kids just seems a lot lopsided....in basketball or baseball.  Wonder if anyone has ever run the numbers on the percentage of Div 2 teams in football that win state in baseball or basketball.  I'm sure it happens but I would bet the percentage is fairly low.

You are confusing equality with sameness 

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9 minutes ago, TheShadowKnows said:

You are confusing equality with sameness 

I was thinking of equality as fairness.  Doesn't seem fair for a school of 515 to be measured against a school of 1200.  Or really any of the smaller classifications to play against the ones at the top.  Two divisions would be more fair for all sports.  I don't really see a downside.  Seems to have been good for football.

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53 minutes ago, ObiOne said:

I was thinking of equality as fairness.  Doesn't seem fair for a school of 515 to be measured against a school of 1200.  Or really any of the smaller classifications to play against the ones at the top.  Two divisions would be more fair for all sports.  I don't really see a downside.  Seems to have been good for football.

The downside is the same downsides discussed for football.  In some places the division split results in 4 team districts and also in traveling 2 hours or more to play a district game.  In sports like baseball and basketball where you play in the middle of the week, that is too much to ask of these kids.

 

I don't believe the disparity in wins is as big as you think it is.

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What if the Division 2 Champion played Division 1? Are the # that drastic in the same class? Start the season a week earlier so they still finish before Christmas. 

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27 minutes ago, JBizzle said:

The downside is the same downsides discussed for football.  In some places the division split results in 4 team districts and also in traveling 2 hours or more to play a district game.  In sports like baseball and basketball where you play in the middle of the week, that is too much to ask of these kids.

 

I don't believe the disparity in wins is as big as you think it is.

Good points on the number of games and travel times.  I haven't gone back and looked through the years.  Will be tougher to find their division the further you go back.

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How does the 6A format work for football playoffs?  Looks like they split after district. Wonder if that could work for basketball and baseball?

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5 minutes ago, ObiOne said:

How does the 6A format work for football playoffs?  Looks like they split after district. Wonder if that could work for basketball and baseball?

Used to be that way in football. The good ol days. 

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1 hour ago, JBizzle said:

The downside is the same downsides discussed for football.  In some places the division split results in 4 team districts and also in traveling 2 hours or more to play a district game.  In sports like baseball and basketball where you play in the middle of the week, that is too much to ask of these kids.

 

I don't believe the disparity in wins is as big as you think it is.

Correct. And where 2 hours is a long trip here in East Texas, out west it’s nothing. Start splitting them up out there and you’ll have kids traveling 3 hours one way for district games on school nights. 

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11 minutes ago, trueblue82 said:

Correct. And where 2 hours is a long trip here in East Texas, out west it’s nothing. Start splitting them up out there and you’ll have kids traveling 3 hours one way for district games on school nights. 

Split em up after district like 6A does for football.  That takes out the extra travel.

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8 minutes ago, ObiOne said:

Split em up after district like 6A does for football.  That takes out the extra travel.

But then creates more state championships. The state basketball tournament would have to start on a Monday. As it is now, you have 18 games played (semis and finals) in three days (Thurs.-Sat.) for all classifications.

With regional tournaments played the weekend before, doesn't allow much time before you play state tournament. Baseball would be worse.

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Just keep the same districts for volleyball & football. Makes no sense to be playing a volleyball game in one city and a football game in another city. Cheerleaders & others perform at the football game and fans want to attend both & race from one town to another to participate and watch both.

Having Volleyball games on Friday night before a football game limit JV and 9th grade to one game a week.

Basketball and Baseball keep the same districts as football too.

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1 minute ago, sackem said:

Just keep the same districts for volleyball & football. Makes no sense to be playing a volleyball game in one city and a football game in another city. Cheerleaders & others perform at the football game and fans want to attend both & race from one town to another to participate and watch both.

Having Volleyball games on Friday night before a football game limit JV and 9th grade to one game a week.

Basketball and Baseball keep the same districts as football too.

I'm on board with this.

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23 minutes ago, JBizzle said:

I'm on board with this.

JBizzle, contact the director of VB at this address and let your thoughts be known. [email protected]

Have others to email this director.

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3 hours ago, sackem said:

Just keep the same districts for volleyball & football. Makes no sense to be playing a volleyball game in one city and a football game in another city. Cheerleaders & others perform at the football game and fans want to attend both & race from one town to another to participate and watch both.

Having Volleyball games on Friday night before a football game limit JV and 9th grade to one game a week.

Basketball and Baseball keep the same districts as football too.

What’s volleyball?

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Playoff games in other sports don’t make money they cost money.  Money talks and BS walks so end of discussion.

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1 hour ago, BuckNut said:

Playoff games in other sports don’t make money they cost money.  Money talks and BS walks so end of discussion.

Discussion re-opened . . . 

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3 hours ago, BuckNut said:

Playoff games in other sports don’t make money they cost money.  Money talks and BS walks so end of discussion.

Playoff basketball games don’t make money? Our small 3A school will usually pack out a 5A gym for basketball playoff games 

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Not every playoff football game makes money, in the past I have coached at a school that owed money to host schools after playoff games in football, and the baseball  team made money from their playoff matchups. 

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19 hours ago, longhorncrazy said:

But then creates more state championships. The state basketball tournament would have to start on a Monday. As it is now, you have 18 games played (semis and finals) in three days (Thurs.-Sat.) for all classifications.

With regional tournaments played the weekend before, doesn't allow much time before you play state tournament. Baseball would be worse.

I think our state has plenty of resources to host more than one tournament at a time.

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