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Sherrington column: Was it worth leaving the Big XII?


Mr. P

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It’s a strange topic IMO. 

I know why the University higher ups wanted to make the move, $$. As has been explained in earlier posts ATM needed more money and was able to get that with the move. 
What I can’t understand is why the fans think the move was a good idea? I’m not trying to be a dumb longhorn fan so hear me out. Here’s how I look at it, if I’m a fan of the athletic teams at ATM what good did the move do for me? The money doesn’t matter to me because I don’t get any of it. My favorite football team just got thrown into a league that even my best team (‘12)couldn’t win. My favorite basketball team has had 1 good year and will always be in Kentucky’s shadow. My favorite baseball team has competed well with the best of the conference but still isn’t winning the league. 
Now maybe in a few more years all that changes and ATM starts making strides and wins some conference titles but right now I don’t understand it. Are you happy because at least you’re in the conference that most think is the premier conference? Are you happy because the new facilities look awesome? Maybe it’s because, like WETSU said, big name coaches will consider your school now. 
 

For me I don’t care that Austin is the #1 city to live in America, I don’t care that Texas brings in #1 or #2 most money in the country. I just want to win and win big. If I can’t enjoy my team winning then why would I care about the other stuff? Maybe this is where the “tshirt fan” comes into play because if I had a diploma from Texas I might care more about all the other stuff. 

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Just now, JohnnyFootball said:

No denying that. 

If you focus only on the level the team is playing it, then yes, it was a lateral move. 

I'm looking at far more than wins/losses which have been unchanged, as you say. 

I understand that, and I'm not disagreeing with your points. Only that my main criteria is going to be on-field success. 

The money, exposure, culture and everything else is totally cool, but in my opinion stature is determined by wins and losses. 

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1 minute ago, JustAFan11 said:

It’s a strange topic IMO. 

I know why the University higher ups wanted to make the move, $$. As has been explained in earlier posts ATM needed more money and was able to get that with the move. 
What I can’t understand is why the fans think the move was a good idea? I’m not trying to be a dumb longhorn fan so hear me out. Here’s how I look at it, if I’m a fan of the athletic teams at ATM what good did the move do for me? The money doesn’t matter to me because I don’t get any of it. My favorite football team just got thrown into a league that even my best team (‘12)couldn’t win. My favorite basketball team has had 1 good year and will always be in Kentucky’s shadow. My favorite baseball team has competed well with the best of the conference but still isn’t winning the league. 
Now maybe in a few more years all that changes and ATM starts making strides and wins some conference titles but right now I don’t understand it. Are you happy because at least you’re in the conference that most think is the premier conference? Are you happy because the new facilities look awesome? Maybe it’s because, like WETSU said, big name coaches will consider your school now. 
 

For me I don’t care that Austin is the #1 city to live in America, I don’t care that Texas brings in #1 or #2 most money in the country. I just want to win and win big. If I can’t enjoy my team winning then why would I care about the other stuff? Maybe this is where the “tshirt fan” comes into play because if I had a diploma from Texas I might care more about all the other stuff. 

The SEC Network has given fans access to tons of events we wouldn't have otherwise had. 

And many get fresh road trips to new places like Florida, Georgia, Auburn, etc. New experiences. 

For you, who focuses ONLY on wins/losses, then it's a lateral move at worst. Our winning percentage is higher in the SEC than it was in the Big XII. 

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Just now, AKA said:

I understand that, and I'm not disagreeing with your points. Only that my main criteria is going to be on-field success. 

The money, exposure, culture and everything else is totally cool, but in my opinion stature is determined by wins and losses. 

Then the thread title should've had to do with stature specifically. :D

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13 minutes ago, AKA said:

Honest answer: because I'm not sure yet. 

On one hand, I think it's been very good for them to try to develop rivalries with teams like LSU and Alabama. They've even won some thrilling games on a national stage. It certainly hasn't hurt them recruiting-wise. 

On the other hand, I'm not sold on the idea that Jimbo will take them to the heights they're expecting. And as Mav said, outside of a Heisman and one really good year, A&M's overall stature is virtually unchanged. 


Thus...  TBD

Thanks for answering in a non-condescending respectful manner

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20 minutes ago, JohnnyFootball said:

Did Texas fans consider Nebraska rivals? I know they had several big games in the Big XII Championship, but they didn't  play every year. 

I think maybe only when they played each other? Idk if its as much as a rivalry as it is a good matchup between 2 programs with a lot of history.  Nothing compared to the rivalries Texas has with A&M or OU and vice versa. 

I have a good buddy who went to Nebraska and still lives up there. They hate Texas (which isn't surprising), but it might have been more because of that Big 12 Championship Game in 2009/2010.

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5 minutes ago, ETXfan16 said:

I think maybe only when they played each other? Idk if its as much as a rivalry as it is a good matchup between 2 programs with a lot of history.  Nothing compared to the rivalries Texas has with A&M or OU and vice versa. 

I have a good buddy who went to Nebraska and still lives up there. They hate Texas (which isn't surprising), but it might have been more because of that Big 12 Championship Game in 2009/2010.

Also, 1996. That was a GREAT game. Big upset. 

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1 hour ago, AKA said:

My opinion: unchanged.

Once A&M starts competing for conference titles on the regular, I'll be glad to tip my cap and say it was all for the better. 

As it stands now, in my opinion, A&M is at the same level in the SEC as it was in the Big XII. 

I agree with this but A&M wasn't exactly competing for conference titles in the Big 12 either. 

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1 hour ago, JohnnyFootball said:

The SEC Network has given fans access to tons of events we wouldn't have otherwise had. 

And many get fresh road trips to new places like Florida, Georgia, Auburn, etc. New experiences. 

For you, who focuses ONLY on wins/losses, then it's a lateral move at worst. Our winning percentage is higher in the SEC than it was in the Big XII. 

Is the winning percentage higher in the SEC games compared to BIG XII, or is it due to counting 4 non-conference games? Three of which we know are going to be basically automatic wins. 

Or does that even matter to the casual fan that simply sees more W's?

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40 minutes ago, JustAFan11 said:

It’s a strange topic IMO. 

I know why the University higher ups wanted to make the move, $$. As has been explained in earlier posts ATM needed more money and was able to get that with the move. 
What I can’t understand is why the fans think the move was a good idea? I’m not trying to be a dumb longhorn fan so hear me out. Here’s how I look at it, if I’m a fan of the athletic teams at ATM what good did the move do for me? The money doesn’t matter to me because I don’t get any of it. My favorite football team just got thrown into a league that even my best team (‘12)couldn’t win. My favorite basketball team has had 1 good year and will always be in Kentucky’s shadow. My favorite baseball team has competed well with the best of the conference but still isn’t winning the league. 
Now maybe in a few more years all that changes and ATM starts making strides and wins some conference titles but right now I don’t understand it. Are you happy because at least you’re in the conference that most think is the premier conference? Are you happy because the new facilities look awesome? Maybe it’s because, like WETSU said, big name coaches will consider your school now. 
 

For me I don’t care that Austin is the #1 city to live in America, I don’t care that Texas brings in #1 or #2 most money in the country. I just want to win and win big. If I can’t enjoy my team winning then why would I care about the other stuff? Maybe this is where the “tshirt fan” comes into play because if I had a diploma from Texas I might care more about all the other stuff. 

Winning doesn’t just happen. It’s not like recruits just wake up and say, “I’m going to decide to convince all my friends to go to A&M so we can win a title.” 

Winning takes recruits and coaches. It takes money for both. You need good facilities to lure recruits. You need big recruiting budgets. You need good coaches and the good ones cost money. You need more money to retain said coaches. 

Money doesn't guarantee winning. But money does help. 

And to be honest with you, Texas fans can not understand this move because we are not the same. You guys are perfectly content being a big fish in a small pond. There isn’t a lot of benefit for Texas to challenge itself the way A&M needed to. A&M needed this move to establish itself as something different. As much as Aggies will hate admitting it, they needed this move to break away from Texas and give the recruits and the world something different. A&M in the big 12 would always be the second thought of team in the state unless they won for like 40 straight years to make up all the history. But jumping to the sec instantly gives them something different. It offers local kids the chance to play against the best of the best. That has already picked up recruiting. Sumlin is a horrible coach. He held A&M back. I think this will be an entirely different program in a couple of years with jimbo realing in what looks like back to back top 5 classes.

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1 hour ago, WETSU said:

Texas is a mediocre program with lots of money...they haven’t won anything meaningful since these kids playing now were in preschool. This isn’t 2005 anymore. You say Aggies are a joke to the outside world? The entire country is laughing at you and “we’re back” every time you beat a team with a pulse. You know why? Because half your conference will probably be G5 teams after the next realignment. You’re a big fish in a small bond and still haven’t won but about one conference title every 10 years in it... Nobody cares if you won a lot of games in the 60s. People are starting to not care that you won a title 15 years ago. Hell Tennessee won a title about 20 years ago and nobody even considers them to be a top 25 program anymore hardly. 

Texas and A&M are both mediocre programs right now. And have been for long enough to have to earn their way back out. The only difference is the entitlement you and many like you feel that it’s not if but when Texas will be back. 

This thread is about the 4 schools that left the Big12.  Everybody knows of Texas’ struggles.  This isn’t about Texas though.  Go start a thread about Texas instead of hijacking another one like you normally do.  Start one and we can discuss this there.  Better yet go read the Longhorns 2019 thread and you’ll see how Texas fans are upset about the state of the program and coaches

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1 hour ago, Lhornfan said:

Is the winning percentage higher in the SEC games compared to BIG XII, or is it due to counting 4 non-conference games? Three of which we know are going to be basically automatic wins. 

Or does that even matter to the casual fan that simply sees more W's?

We had 4 non conference games in the Big XII too... 

A lot of that has to do with other factors though. Like coach Fran wrecking our program from 2003-2009 or so. Sherman did his best to rebuild it and did an okay job. I still don't think Sumlin was horrible. He won 8-9 games every year. 

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14 hours ago, AKA said:

My take... 

A&M = good move money-wise, "TBD" everything else. Glad they don't have to deal with "T-sips" anymore.  

Missouri = neutral...  they were an also-ran in the Big XII, now they're an also-ran in SEC. More money though. 

Nebraska = bad move...  rivalries with OU and UT could've kept them relevant. But hey, how about that Big 10 "prestige," eh?

Colorado = "meh" move... they were middling in the Big XII and are middling in the PAC. Probably a better cultural fit.

I agree with all of this. I think A&M does fit in culturally with the SEC, but they weren’t a bad cultural fit for the Big 12 either.

The main point for saying it could ultimately be a bad move for A&M has nothing to do with money, in my opinion. I think the toughest part is getting past LSU, Alabama and Auburn. I feel winning big in the SEC will be more difficult for A&M than it would’ve been in the Big 12. That’s been my opinion since they made the move.
I do believe A&M’s recruiting has been given a shot in the arm from the move to the SEC. A&M has always had good recruiting, but I think they’re getting a little higher caliber players more often than they did in the early-to-mid 2000s. 

WETSU brought up a good point that Clemson wasn’t very good not too long ago. That is 100% true. The main difference I see is Dabo was able to take advantage of FSU, Miami and VaTech all being way down from years past. Clemson quickly took charge of that conference and still has a much easier route to an undefeated season and the CFP than pretty much any other P5 team. That’s a huge advantage in keeping the success rolling and recruits flowing in. Also, Clemson is a very beautiful place and great college town. It’s a place that has always had potential.

A&M has potential we just haven’t seen it fulfilled yet. Things can change. It really just takes the right coach and A&M thinks they have that in Fisher. I’ve said this before, at least Aggies aren’t too scared to go get the coach they think can change their entire world. A&M did that, we’ll see if it works for them.

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1 hour ago, HearEmaGrowlin said:

 

WETSU brought up a good point that Clemson wasn’t very good not too long ago. That is 100% true. The main difference I see is Dabo was able to take advantage of FSU, Miami and VaTech all being way down from years past. Clemson quickly took charge of that conference and still has a much easier route to an undefeated season and the CFP than pretty much any other P5 team. That’s a huge advantage in keeping the success rolling and recruits flowing in. Also, Clemson is a very beautiful place and great college town. It’s a place that has always had potential.

 

Those are true points, but it wasn't all Dabo. Clemson's administration has done a phenomenal job with Dabo and focusing on improving that program. Their facilities are off the charts. They have given Dabo everything he needs/wants in order to succeed. They put their "stalk" (lol) in Dabo and it has paid off tremendously. There are a lot of AD's and athletic front offices that won't do that. 

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44 minutes ago, ETXfan16 said:

Those are true points, but it wasn't all Dabo. Clemson's administration has done a phenomenal job with Dabo and focusing on improving that program. Their facilities are off the charts. They have given Dabo everything he needs/wants in order to succeed. They put their "stalk" (lol) in Dabo and it has paid off tremendously. There are a lot of AD's and athletic front offices that won't do that. 

A Guaranteed 10 year contract worth $75million with no buyout clauses is definitely putting stalk in a coach.

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4 hours ago, HearEmaGrowlin said:

I agree with all of this. I think A&M does fit in culturally with the SEC, but they weren’t a bad cultural fit for the Big 12 either.

The main point for saying it could ultimately be a bad move for A&M has nothing to do with money, in my opinion. I think the toughest part is getting past LSU, Alabama and Auburn. I feel winning big in the SEC will be more difficult for A&M than it would’ve been in the Big 12. That’s been my opinion since they made the move.
I do believe A&M’s recruiting has been given a shot in the arm from the move to the SEC. A&M has always had good recruiting, but I think they’re getting a little higher caliber players more often than they did in the early-to-mid 2000s. 

WETSU brought up a good point that Clemson wasn’t very good not too long ago. That is 100% true. The main difference I see is Dabo was able to take advantage of FSU, Miami and VaTech all being way down from years past. Clemson quickly took charge of that conference and still has a much easier route to an undefeated season and the CFP than pretty much any other P5 team. That’s a huge advantage in keeping the success rolling and recruits flowing in. Also, Clemson is a very beautiful place and great college town. It’s a place that has always had potential.

A&M has potential we just haven’t seen it fulfilled yet. Things can change. It really just takes the right coach and A&M thinks they have that in Fisher. I’ve said this before, at least Aggies aren’t too scared to go get the coach they think can change their entire world. A&M did that, we’ll see if it works for them.

Is this why they landed on the Aggies schedule as a P5 non-conference game? 🤔

I kid... I kid...

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4 minutes ago, Lhornfan said:

Is this why they landed on the Aggies schedule as a P5 non-conference game? 🤔

I kid... I kid...

You know I’m not exactly sure when they were added to the schedule. I thought I saw somewhere where they were already working out another home and home in the future. Maybe I’m wrong I just thought I saw/heard it.

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52 minutes ago, WETSU said:

You know I’m not exactly sure when they were added to the schedule. I thought I saw somewhere where they were already working out another home and home in the future. Maybe I’m wrong I just thought I saw/heard it.

A&M probably didn't expect Clemson to become the juggernaut but good quality opponent. https://www.saturdaydownsouth.com/tamu-football/texas-am-tamu-clemson-oregon-schedule/

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53 minutes ago, WETSU said:

You know I’m not exactly sure when they were added to the schedule. I thought I saw somewhere where they were already working out another home and home in the future. Maybe I’m wrong I just thought I saw/heard it.

A&M actually had a series with Oregon set up the past 2 seasons and replaced with Clemson.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/maroonreport.com/2014/10/24/aggies-cancel-oregon-series-add-clemson/amp/

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