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La Vega vs Carthage 2019 4A D1 Championship


State Championship  

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    • La Vega Pirates
    • Carthage Bulldogs

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  • Poll closed on 12/20/2019 at 05:00 PM

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BTW......Argyle also played backups most of the season and limited the totals for these 3 receivers and Hogeboom compared to the minutes most players get playing as starters.  So like LV and Carthage.......Argyle is in that same category playing lots of different players and limiting minutes for their best players.  Not sure how Lampasas did throughout the year playing backups and limiting the minutes of their starters.

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We like to pound our chest when we're right.   I was so wrong on this game.  I was fairly confident it would be close.  Oh me of little faith.  Carthage was easily the better team.  They're like a gre

No. LV is freaking LOADED! Go watch some film on them.

Sportsfanatic1(DTrump), you're obsession with him is overwhelming. Get a life loser! I'm your huckleberry!

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La Vega will be a tough out next season........they can replace Kinne at QB with Rauls.  Cummings and Walton at RB were also only juniors this season......so they will be loaded on offense.  I think they lose Malichi Wright and Chambliss at receiver,  but I don't think that will be a problem whatsoever for them.  Losing #10 DeMarques Hayes at LB......well we already saw that against Carthage in the SC title game against the best team in 4A this season.  LV should get the #1 nod in 4A-D1 next season, for sure.  

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16 minutes ago, regaleagle said:

La Vega will be a tough out next season........they can replace Kinne at QB with Rauls.  Cummings and Walton at RB were also only juniors this season......so they will be loaded on offense.  I think they lose Malichi Wright and Chambliss at receiver,  but I don't think that will be a problem whatsoever for them.  Losing #10 DeMarques Hayes at LB......well we already saw that against Carthage in the SC title game against the best team in 4A this season.  LV should get the #1 nod in 4A-D1 next season, for sure.  

Agreed. If they have Cummings and Walton both returning they’ll be tough to beat - again.

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6 hours ago, regaleagle said:

Just got my laptop back from the shop.......had to replace the "port thing" for $90......and they had to order the parts. Christmas season caused the delay.  Watched all the games......was a great week at AT&T.  Carthage O-line won this game, no doubt.  But the Carthage D and Whitlock was very impressive as well.  They played very well the entire game even though we all knew LV's backs would break a few for scores and long runs......those guys are gashers and don't need much room.  You beat LV by passing against them to loosen up their D-line, then gash them with a quick back through a hole.  Argyle needed Byce to do that.......the other two backs are not quick like Byce is. Besides......LV sorely missed #10 in this game......he's literally unreplaceable on the field.  But that's the way it goes at this level.......sometimes your best players are hurt and have to watch from the sidelines.  This is high school football at its best on Planet Earth.......what's not to like???  Carthage exposed LV's weakness in the passing game with Horton's connections to some quality receivers......just like Argyle did.  Then you run the ball and hit em for big gains.  Of course Carthage had no problem opening some holes for Courtney with that big O-line and gave Horton plenty of time to connect in the passing game.......no contest against LV.    Carthage had trouble against a mobile QB that was accurate throwing on the run when they met Lampasas, but Argyle had much better receivers than Lampasas.  Like another poster on here said......Bo can't run, but that Lampasas QB sure could, Huh?  Carthage had the best team this season, no doubt.  Argyle had no defense all season.......maybe the worst D in years for Argyle......but still managed to win convincingly because of the offense.  LV played their best game of the season against Argyle in the playoffs and did not make many mistakes.  They had #10 healthy then......and he is literally worth 3 guys on that side of the ball.  BTW......I don't see Argyle being ranked that high next season in 4A.......maybe Top Ten, but not Top Five.  They lose alot of seniors that were very good athletes.....even though those skill guys took baseball scholarships......and I don't blame them. Kudos to Carthage.......they had it all this season.  A big O-line in this sport sets up everything offensively.......they had the QB, the skill players, and a very good defense as well.  Don't know why they didn't score more during the season.......I guess Horton needed a little more time to mature into the position at this level.  But he's matured now......and has the size and arm to get it done.  Congrats to Carthage on a great showing and #7.  I didn't think LV was good enough and knew they weren't disciplined enough to play with Carthage this season.  I do think it would have been a little different(closer) if #10 would have been able to play for LV.......but that's how the football cookie crumbles. 

Thanks for giving your take. 
I believe the Dawgs had the best O line in 4A and 5A. I watched every game (taped) them all. I watched The 4A and 5 A games twice. The Dawg O line was by far the best out of those two divisions. 
10 for La Vega would have helped against the run but the Dawgs would have still won this game. 
LV had no answer for the Dawg receivers. 
I have only watched highlights of Argyle but Lampasas was a better team. They had an average to good defense and the best QB in all of 4A. I don’t know if the receivers were better but they did not have to be with that QB. He could put the on the money standing still or running. 
The Dawgs were the best team and I believe LV, Lampasas, and the Argyle in that order. 

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Argyle will be returning some talent in the O-line and backfield with Rogers at Qb/receiver,  Byce and Scoggins at RB, and are loaded with receivers again.  The D will be improved and better with lots of youth this season back......some just sophs. and a few freshman this season.  Also have some depth at QB in the wings.....not sure how they will work out the positions next season.  Possible that Argyle goes Region 1, but even in Region 2 next season I doubt these two regions will be as competitive as Region 2 was this season.  I look for La Vega to fall into a different region than Argyle(Brownwood, Stephenville as well) in the realignment.  Not sure how good Decatur will be and what they are graduating.....QB Roman Fuller(6-4/193/Sr) 3900 yds. passing and 41 TD's is gone.......BUT will be replaced by backup Landon Howell(6-3/190/Jr) next season......LOL.  I guess they will just reload at QB and their receiving corps and do it all over again.......hahaha.  

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5 minutes ago, regaleagle said:

Argyle will be returning some talent in the O-line and backfield with Rogers at Qb/receiver,  Byce and Scoggins at RB, and are loaded with receivers again.  The D will be improved and better with lots of youth this season back......some just sophs. and a few freshman this season.  Also have some depth at QB in the wings.....not sure how they will work out the positions next season.  Possible that Argyle goes Region 1, but even in Region 2 next season I doubt these two regions will be as competitive as Region 2 was this season.  I look for La Vega to fall into a different region than Argyle(Brownwood, Stephenville as well) in the realignment.  Not sure how good Decatur will be and what they are graduating.....QB Roman Fuller(6-4/193/Sr) 3900 yds. passing and 41 TD's is gone.......BUT will be replaced by backup Landon Howell(6-3/190/Jr) next season......LOL.  I guess they will just reload at QB and their receiving corps and do it all over again.......hahaha.  

If Decatur ever gets a defense they’ll be a force.

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14 minutes ago, cowboyandchrist said:

Thanks for giving your take. 
I believe the Dawgs had the best O line in 4A and 5A. I watched every game (taped) them all. I watched The 4A and 5 A games twice. The Dawg O line was by far the best out of those two divisions. 
10 for La Vega would have helped against the run but the Dawgs would have still won this game. 
LV had no answer for the Dawg receivers. 
I have only watched highlights of Argyle but Lampasas was a better team. They had an average to good defense and the best QB in all of 4A. I don’t know if the receivers were better but they did not have to be with that QB. He could put the on the money standing still or running. 
The Dawgs were the best team and I believe LV, Lampasas, and the Argyle in that order. 

I tend to agree with you on the order for the ending of this season's 4A-D1 classification. It was truly a very competitive class this year and there were many very good football teams and lots of very good games played in 4A-D1 this season with lots of talent on those teams.  So that makes this season's Carthage team even that much better than perhaps some of those teams in years past, IMHO.  Argyle had a really good offense, but not so good on defense and that really hurt them.  Injuries also came into play to key personnel at crunch time and that also hurt the team this season.   It hurt the team two years ago when we lost our star QB Jon Copeland......now at star at Incarnate Word and breaking all kinds of passing records there and in that conference this season.  That's just the way the football cookie has crumbled for Argyle in recent years.......sometimes it takes a little luck to make it all the way to the title game.  This season it was Byce and a starting center and our emerging soph. safety star Will Ramsey(5-11/175/Soph.)......he was a HUGE loss on defense this season. He was leading the team in tackles for the season when he got injured in Game 11.

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2 hours ago, regaleagle said:

That's because Carthage played a close game to Lampasas and did not even face Argyle to properly judge both teams against this season's Carthage team.......so your evaluation is slightly slanted......naturally.  Just look at the overall numbers that Gonzo, Merka, and Cole Kirkpatrick had.......these guys don't even run track.  They are all D-1 athletes.....every one of them highly talented.  You don't need blazing speed to be a great receiver.......and all of these guys have great speed.......but they also all have great hands and knew how to catch footballs in traffic and how to go up and get the ball.  You are nuts if you think any of the receivers from Lampasas are as good as Cole Kirkpatrick.......and I can guarantee you he has as much speed on that football field as any receiver in 4A......except maybe Dixon. Do your homework first instead of your homer comments.......and look at the facts first.  The numbers speak for themselves.  You said it yourself........they had 3 track speedsters all with height. I'd like to see the numbers of the Argyle 3 vs the Lampasas 3 thru 14 games this season. And Argyle's 14th game ####

In other words......prove your comments right here by posting the numbers......convince me and other readers. I'm open-minded enough, but show me with some stats.

Reagle - are you really lecturing me about homer comments?  It’s not my place to convince you the Lamp WR group is better.  You can go look up their stats and watch their highlights if you want, or not.  The Argyle group was good, the Lamp group was better, but Dixon was best.  It’s ok.  Happy New Year!

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39 minutes ago, DawgNation2015 said:

Reagle - are you really lecturing me about homer comments?  It’s not my place to convince you the Lamp WR group is better.  You can go look up their stats and watch their highlights if you want, or not.  The Argyle group was good, the Lamp group was better, but Dixon was best.  It’s ok.  Happy New Year!

Lol @ Reagle calling Anybody a homer...😂

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57 minutes ago, DawgNation2015 said:

Reagle - are you really lecturing me about homer comments?  It’s not my place to convince you the Lamp WR group is better.  You can go look up their stats and watch their highlights if you want, or not.  The Argyle group was good, the Lamp group was better, but Dixon was best.  It’s ok.  Happy New Year!

Most definitely a Carthage homer opinion.......but there are lots of other readers on this site besides me that might not be as one-sided in their views as a Carthage fan is. I'm not saying there is anything wrong with that.......just pointing out it is a natural conclusion without the facts staring you in the face. It was the Carthage fans that said Lamp had better receivers and a better Qb this season........without any stats for all the viewers to make a comparison based on stats that are facts.  Just because Lamp had a better defense than Argyle did this season does not make their offense better.  And just because Carthage beat Lampasas in a very close playoff game does not mean that they were a better team this season than Argyle had.  It only means Carthage fans want it to be that way.......and will not ever be a fact to be proven now that the season is over.  So in the final analysis.......the quality of games played over the season against quality opponents and the stat sheets is all we have.  Carthage won the SC title and that's all that is proven.......which team ended up #1 this season.  The rest is all opinion based on situations, facts, and stats.  Luck always plays a role when injuries to key personnel for certain teams may also impact that team's season......it happens to teams in the mix every season.  So to say that Lampasas was better than Argyle and had a better receiving corps.......I say to you......Prove it here. Otherwise it's just Carthage noise about how great they are and the teams they beat.  They can't say that against Argyle because they didn't play each other.......but the stats show that the numbers between Lampasas and Argyle are virtually the same thru 14 games offensively.  The difference is the schedule both teams played and the minutes those players played to get those stats.......AND those types of comparisons are strictly conjecture and opinion-based.  Lampasas ended up 13-2 and Argyle ended up 13-1 again......thanks to a very good LV team WITH DeMarques Hayes playing.  Lampasas did not play LV twice this season......not even anybody close to that quality until they met Carthage.

BTW.......that's my slanted opinion.......LOL.  I'm a homer too.......for Argyle!!

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Argyle just wasn’t very good. Gave up 40+ to bad teams. Stephenville scored at will. There WRs couldn’t get it done against LV the 2nd time in the playoffs. Carthage torched LV. Lampasas would probably beat Argyle this year by 3 scores. Same as Carthage. Lampasas and PG the 2 best teams Carthage played. Argyle was playing on borrowed time. Were never going to win it all. They were a flawed team. 

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10 minutes ago, regaleagle said:

Most definitely a Carthage homer opinion.......but there are lots of other readers on this site besides me that might not be as one-sided in their views as a Carthage fan is. I'm not saying there is anything wrong with that.......just pointing out it is a natural conclusion without the facts staring you in the face. It was the Carthage fans that said Lamp had better receivers and a better Qb this season........without any stats for all the viewers to make a comparison based on stats that are facts.  Just because Lamp had a better defense than Argyle did this season does not make their offense better.  And just because Carthage beat Lampasas in a very close playoff game does not mean that they were a better team this season than Argyle had.  It only means Carthage fans want it to be that way.......and will not ever be a fact to be proven now that the season is over.  So in the final analysis.......the quality of games played over the season against quality opponents and the stat sheets is all we have.  Carthage won the SC title and that's all that is proven.......which team ended up #1 this season.  The rest is all opinion based on situations, facts, and stats.  Luck always plays a role when injuries to key personnel for certain teams may also impact that team's season......it happens to teams in the mix every season.  So to say that Lampasas was better than Argyle and had a better receiving corps.......I say to you......Prove it here. Otherwise it's just Carthage noise about how great they are and the teams they beat.  They can't say that against Argyle because they didn't play each other.......but the stats show that the numbers between Lampasas and Argyle are virtually the same thru 14 games offensively.  The difference is the schedule both teams played and the minutes those players played to get those stats.......AND those types of comparisons are strictly conjecture and opinion-based.  Lampasas ended up 13-2 and Argyle ended up 13-1 again......thanks to a very good LV team WITH DeMarques Hayes playing.  Lampasas did not play LV twice this season......not even anybody close to that quality until they met Carthage.

All those teams y’all acted like were so good in R2 were all average at best. This was the problem with everybody saying Carthage and Lampasas didn’t play anybody. Maybe the teams in R2 didn’t play as many good teams as everybody was touting. Lampasas beats any team in 4a nit named Carthage. Hell, Springtown would’ve beat Argyle. 

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1 minute ago, BulldogBacker12 said:

Argyle just wasn’t very good. Gave up 40+ to bad teams. Stephenville scored at will. There WRs couldn’t get it done against LV the 2nd time in the playoffs. Carthage torched LV. Lampasas would probably beat Argyle this year by 3 scores. Same as Carthage. Lampasas and PG the 2 best teams Carthage played. Argyle was playing on borrowed time. Were never going to win it all. They were a flawed team. 

Yes they were......but one heckuva a flawed team for such a poor defense......I don't think anybody can argue that!!  I even stated that fact many times here, but they kept winning with their offense......so sometimes in football it's the number of points on the board that counts MOST.  Sometimes it's the overall best team that wins the whole enchilada.....and sometimes it's not.

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2 minutes ago, BulldogBacker12 said:

All those teams y’all acted like were so good in R2 were all average at best. This was the problem with everybody saying Carthage and Lampasas didn’t play anybody. Maybe the teams in R2 didn’t play as many good teams as everybody was touting. Lampasas beats any team in 4a nit named Carthage. Hell, Springtown would’ve beat Argyle. 

Take a good look in the mirror and also at your username Bulldog Backer......there you will find the reason for this post........it's totally slanted and total opinion.  In the grand scheme of things it really doesn't matter now.......all of these types of posts are ALWAYS  total opinion and conjecture.  If it's not proven on the field of play.....then it's not fact.

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1 minute ago, regaleagle said:

Take a good look in the mirror and also at your username Bulldog Backer......there you will find the reason for this post........it's totally slanted and total opinion.  In the grand scheme of things it really doesn't matter now.......all of these types of posts are ALWAYS  total opinion and conjecture.  If it's not proven on the field of play.....then it's not fact.

Well, you are correct, it is only BB’s and my opinions that Lampasas was the 2nd best team in 4A-D1 this year, because those teams - Argyle and Lampasas nor did Lampasas and LV play each other.

It is just an opinion that the Badgers are second best this year. To me, they looked better than LV and we know what LV did to Argyle. 
So, who knows for sure. There’s just one thing we know for sure..

 

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And unfortunately we will never know for sure......so it's always opinion at best.  This same discussion and argument resurfaces every season at this time of the year trying to place all the good teams that did not win the title in different divisions.  We all know that Aledo and Carthage are deserved proven Champions.......that is all we can really conclude from all of what happened this season. The rest is just noise and opinions.......even my posts are.  But I'm just pointing out posts that were made to seem to be fact that really aren't.......that's all.  I'm not saying Argyle was better than Lampasas......nor will I admit that Lampasas had a better offense than Argyle this season. I will admit Lampasas had a better defense and equivalent stats offensively to Argyle.......but I won't admit they played a tougher schedule or even a schedule equal in toughness to the one Argyle played.

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1 minute ago, regaleagle said:

And unfortunately we will never know for sure......so it's always opinion at best.  This same discussion and argument resurfaces every season at this time of the year trying to place all the good teams that did not win the title in different divisions.  We all know that Aledo and Carthage are deserved proven Champions.......that is all we can really conclude from all of what happened this season. The rest is just noise and opinions.......even my posts are.  But I'm just pointing out posts that were made to seem to be fact that really aren't.......that's all.  I'm not saying Argyle was better than Lampasas......nor will I admit that Lampasas had a better offense than Argyle this season. I will admit Lampasas had a better defense and equivalent stats offensively to Argyle.......but I won't admit they played a tougher schedule or even a schedule equal in toughness to the one Argyle played.

I hear you, Regal. Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to you!

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Same to you and yours......and to all the Carthagenians out there.  Without teams like ours in the mix every season.....4A wouldn't be near as interesting as it really has been now for the past decade......even when it was previously known as 3A before the jump-up in classifications across the state.  We should all be very proud of our product and the kind of competition we have created here in our own backyards........it's just absolutely the very best I've seen in my whole life at this level.  I've been around football my whole life and played in a very competitive region against Cuero and Refugio back in the 70's.  I had to cover Arthur Whittington in the secondary.....LOL. I did a good job of it too......just ask Cuero "oldies".  But this football at this level in today's game is just astounding and mind-boggling that we have in Texas.......the very best there is.  And I'm thankful to be part of it on this site and every season at the games.  God Bless America and football in Texas.......Happy New Year and Amen.

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Argyle was ranked #1 all season and failed to make it to be the big dance, AGAIN! Dawgs won their 7th, life is good! Happy New Years!!

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1 hour ago, regaleagle said:

Same to you and yours......and to all the Carthagenians out there.  Without teams like ours in the mix every season.....4A wouldn't be near as interesting as it really has been now for the past decade......even when it was previously known as 3A before the jump-up in classifications across the state.  We should all be very proud of our product and the kind of competition we have created here in our own backyards........it's just absolutely the very best I've seen in my whole life at this level.  I've been around football my whole life and played in a very competitive region against Cuero and Refugio back in the 70's.  I had to cover Arthur Whittington in the secondary.....LOL. I did a good job of it too......just ask Cuero "oldies".  But this football at this level in today's game is just astounding and mind-boggling that we have in Texas.......the very best there is.  And I'm thankful to be part of it on this site and every season at the games.  God Bless America and football in Texas.......Happy New Year and Amen.

Amen, Regal!

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34 minutes ago, BulldogBacker12 said:

Same can be said for Argyle.

Argyle has had some excellent defenses in past seasons.....and you know it because you have lots of posts in your history here BB. Shame on you for trying to denigrate a toptier team like Argyle. 

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Actually......as recent as 2017 Argyle had a really good defense, but lost in an upset to Stephenville in Mansfield in Game 13.  They went 12-1 that season and played without an injured top-notch QB Jon Copeland for games 10, 11, 12, and 13.  Stephenville won on a MISSED Argyle field goal with less than a minute left.....31-28.....and it was a chip shot that was wide right.  Their defense that year allowed 15.3 ppg.....better than the 2015 team that lost to LV in the final 33-31 for their only loss of the season.  That team allowed 20.6 ppg......just to give you a comparison.

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3 hours ago, regaleagle said:

Most definitely a Carthage homer opinion.......but there are lots of other readers on this site besides me that might not be as one-sided in their views as a Carthage fan is. I'm not saying there is anything wrong with that.......just pointing out it is a natural conclusion without the facts staring you in the face. It was the Carthage fans that said Lamp had better receivers and a better Qb this season........without any stats for all the viewers to make a comparison based on stats that are facts.  Just because Lamp had a better defense than Argyle did this season does not make their offense better.  And just because Carthage beat Lampasas in a very close playoff game does not mean that they were a better team this season than Argyle had.  It only means Carthage fans want it to be that way.......and will not ever be a fact to be proven now that the season is over.  So in the final analysis.......the quality of games played over the season against quality opponents and the stat sheets is all we have.  Carthage won the SC title and that's all that is proven.......which team ended up #1 this season.  The rest is all opinion based on situations, facts, and stats.  Luck always plays a role when injuries to key personnel for certain teams may also impact that team's season......it happens to teams in the mix every season.  So to say that Lampasas was better than Argyle and had a better receiving corps.......I say to you......Prove it here. Otherwise it's just Carthage noise about how great they are and the teams they beat.  They can't say that against Argyle because they didn't play each other.......but the stats show that the numbers between Lampasas and Argyle are virtually the same thru 14 games offensively.  The difference is the schedule both teams played and the minutes those players played to get those stats.......AND those types of comparisons are strictly conjecture and opinion-based.  Lampasas ended up 13-2 and Argyle ended up 13-1 again......thanks to a very good LV team WITH DeMarques Hayes playing.  Lampasas did not play LV twice this season......not even anybody close to that quality until they met Carthage.

BTW.......that's my slanted opinion.......LOL.  I'm a homer too.......for Argyle!!

Lampasas QB had I believe had 75 TD’S in 14 games, how many did the Argyle QB have. 
 

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