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4 hours ago, Matt said:

Mavchamp, I think I speak for everyone on here ... HUGE thank you for all these BBall and soccer updates... boys and girls. Wow.  Huge service,  much appreciated. 

Yes Thanks.  It takes lots if time and effort.  

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1 hour ago, NODAYSOFFTX said:

Wasn’t a good coach to begin with, the quality of coaches at JT in basketball are subpar and wasting talent. 

It's pretty clear that he is not as good as Coach Love or Coach Pinson.  

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2 hours ago, CUJONATION83 said:

Understandable, but they have actual good players coming. 

I agree, I'm just afraid their talent will go to waste.

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1 hour ago, CUJONATION83 said:

People need to demand change from TISD if they want or think better. Complaining on social media ain't going to change it JMO.

You are correct.  

As much as some may have issues with Coach Holmes, he has actually won games and he has had several deep playoff runs.    There is no justification to remove him based on his record..other than the community demanding it. 

The basketball program is another thing.  I think it's clear the program is regressing.  We shouldn't have to complain because the records speak for itself. Too many bad losses and barely competitive in a mediocre district.

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Just now, JTFAN99 said:

You are correct.  

As much as some may have issues with Coach Holmes, he has actually won games and he has had several deep playoff runs.    There is no justification to remove him based on his record..other than the community demanding it. 

The basketball program is another thing.  I think it's clear the program is regressing.  We shouldn't have to complain because the records speak for itself. Too many bad losses and barely competitive in a mediocre district.

AGREE 

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11 hours ago, JTFAN99 said:

You are correct.  

As much as some may have issues with Coach Holmes, he has actually won games and he has had several deep playoff runs.    There is no justification to remove him based on his record..other than the community demanding it. 

The basketball program is another thing.  I think it's clear the program is regressing.  We shouldn't have to complain because the records speak for itself. Too many bad losses and barely competitive in a mediocre district.

All that winning hasn’t brought a chip, look at calallen, they coach has won all those games and still ain’t won the chip, What good does it then? I ain’t saying Holmes is terrible but he hasn’t shown he great enough to win the chip, but he shown he can win games.

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3 hours ago, NODAYSOFFTX said:

All that winning hasn’t brought a chip, look at calallen, they coach has won all those games and still ain’t won the chip, What good does it then? I ain’t saying Holmes is terrible but he hasn’t shown he great enough to win the chip, but he shown he can win games.

I'm confused a little. What do you mean when you wrote "look at calallen, they coach has won all those games and still ain’t won the chip, What good does it then? "? 

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6 hours ago, NODAYSOFFTX said:

All that winning hasn’t brought a chip, look at calallen, they coach has won all those games and still ain’t won the chip, What good does it then? I ain’t saying Holmes is terrible but he hasn’t shown he great enough to win the chip, but he shown he can win games.

OK, I'm not saying he is the best coach  but what would be the justification to fire him?  Wins matter in this business and he has won alot.

And Calallen may have a shot at winning it this yr, I think they dropped down a class and they won't have to worry about Carthage.

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I’m confused as to if we are talking football or basketball. 

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4 hours ago, Mavchamp said:

I’m confused as to if we are talking football or basketball. 

both. one wants coach holmes gone and the other want the basketball coach gone. I do think that TISD needs to fire the BBall coach. 

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20 hours ago, Aledo said:

I'm confused a little. What do you mean when you wrote "look at calallen, they coach has won all those games and still ain’t won the chip, What good does it then? "? 

Phil Danaher has won has all those games in his career but still haven’t won a chip. So what good is it to win all those games if you can’t win the one that matters? 

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17 hours ago, JTFAN99 said:

OK, I'm not saying he is the best coach  but what would be the justification to fire him?  Wins matter in this business and he has won alot.

And Calallen may have a shot at winning it this yr, I think they dropped down a class and they won't have to worry about Carthage.

Championships matter to me. Anybody can win games, not everyone can win chips. You gotta be great to do that. Holmes ain’t it. 

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I mean we hold nfl and nba teams accountable for not winning chips, we also hold it against colleges for not winning chips. So what’s the difference? 

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6 minutes ago, NODAYSOFFTX said:

I mean we hold nfl and nba teams accountable for not winning chips, we also hold it against colleges for not winning chips. So what’s the difference? 

I think you’re simplifying what it takes to win a state championship. 

Winning a title isn't coaching alone. Yes. It ABSOLUTELY is a factor.  But you need MORE. 

It takes talent at MANY positions. QB, WRs, RB, OL..... DB, LB.   This is big boy football.  A one trick pony won’t do. 

It takes depth.  Staying healthy. 

It takes a little luck.  Don’t care what anyone says to the contrary. 

Match-ups are vital.  And something you can’t control. 

Weather.  We’ve all seen it be a factor in playoff games. 

Sheer numbers.  Look how many schools there are.  Not fair to compare it to 30-team leagues.  Each classification is enormous.  Simple math shows you how hard it is. 

The list goes on and on. 

IMHO.... you guys are wayyyy over simplifying what it takes. 

JT won a title in the 90s.  Statistically I’d bet the likelihood of it happening again are slim.  Same for Marshall, Lufkin, Lee, Longview, Texas High.  All whom have won modern day titles.  

The Katys abd Allens, Aledos, abd Carthages are aberrations. Not the norm.  

Enjoy the ride.  I think we all have deep playoff runs to enjoy in the future. 

But being mad over a lack of state titles seems like a reach for 99% of every program in the state.  No matter what classification. 

It’s hard to do. 

JMHO

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34 minutes ago, Mavchamp said:

I think you’re simplifying what it takes to win a state championship. 

Winning a title isn't coaching alone. Yes. It ABSOLUTELY is a factor.  But you need MORE. 

It takes talent at MANY positions. QB, WRs, RB, OL..... DB, LB.   This is big boy football.  A one trick pony won’t do. 

It takes depth.  Staying healthy. 

It takes a little luck.  Don’t care what anyone says to the contrary. 

Match-ups are vital.  And something you can’t control. 

Weather.  We’ve all seen it be a factor in playoff games. 

Sheer numbers.  Look how many schools there are.  Not fair to compare it to 30-team leagues.  Each classification is enormous.  Simple math shows you how hard it is. 

The list goes on and on. 

IMHO.... you guys are wayyyy over simplifying what it takes. 

JT won a title in the 90s.  Statistically I’d bet the likelihood of it happening again are slim.  Same for Marshall, Lufkin, Lee, Longview, Texas High.  All whom have won modern day titles.  

The Katys abd Allens, Aledos, abd Carthages are aberrations. Not the norm.  

Enjoy the ride.  I think we all have deep playoff runs to enjoy in the future. 

But being mad over a lack of state titles seems like a reach for 99% of every program in the state.  No matter what classification. 

It’s hard to do. 

JMHO

I agree with you but even with all that in play, the notion will still be, yea will he won a lot of games but he could never win the one that matters. Same reason why peop like Deion Sanders said it needs to be harder to get in the HOF because dudes that padded their stat sheet, etc ,but didn’t win a chip are being put in the same light as players that had the stats but WON THE CHIP.

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23 minutes ago, NODAYSOFFTX said:

yea will he won a lot of games but he could never win the one that matters.

That thought process will poison any fan’s passion for the game IMHO. 

Im going to enjoy the ride.  Deep runs are loved and appreciated.  But the “state title or bust” thought train is too exhausting.  

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18 minutes ago, Mavchamp said:

That thought process will poison any fan’s passion for the game IMHO. 

Im going to enjoy the ride.  Deep runs are loved and appreciated.  But the “state title or bust” thought train is too exhausting.  

I don’t think it’s exhausting imo but if that’s not your expectation every year, then I guess that leads us to why none of us besides Longview will win another one. Simply because we don’t set the bar high enough, we are ok with being average. I would think you would want more out of your program. 

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4 minutes ago, NODAYSOFFTX said:

I don’t think it’s exhausting imo but if that’s not your expectation every year, then I guess that leads us to why none of us besides Longview will win another one. Simply because we don’t set the bar high enough, we are ok with being average. I would think you would want more out of your program. 

I will trade spots with you?? I would love to have a playoff run every year and win more games then we lose on a yearly basis!! Enjoy the winning and getting your self even put themselves in a position to be there year after year. 

 

You could always go back to the JT teams of 2004-2008 going 1-9 and 4-7 every year. 

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2 hours ago, NODAYSOFFTX said:

Phil Danaher has won has all those games in his career but still haven’t won a chip. So what good is it to win all those games if you can’t win the one that matters? 

I do think Coach D and Calallen can win a championship. I really hope they do, really nice fans and classy group. Winning state is so hard and less than 1% of the teams in Texas win state each year. Realistically not every team can win state. Either they dont have the players, coaches, luck, health, ect. Not trying to sound like a #### but maybe 5 teams each season have a legit shot to win state in each classification. In 4AD2 it's more like 3 teams. So judging coaches by something that is so difficult to get in this team sport is kinda silly. The goal should be to make your kids and program better than they were. The simple goal of continually improving is tough enough. Sure you can have a talented group come in and win state if everything goes right but the goal really should be to build a great program and compete at a high level yearly. 

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College and NFL coaches can get paid up in the millions. They coach grown men. That’s a tad bit different than coaching kids. Expectations should be different as well. 

The HS coach with all the wins and no titles can flat out coach. But also look at the area they are in. Not necessarily known as football powers. Take an average team and rack up win after win against lesser opponents until you meet someone in playoffs that can beat you even if they had a terrible coach. 

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1 hour ago, NODAYSOFFTX said:

I don’t think it’s exhausting imo but if that’s not your expectation every year, then I guess that leads us to why none of us besides Longview will win another one. Simply because we don’t set the bar high enough, we are ok with being average. I would think you would want more out of your program. 

It’s one thing to expect your team to contend for a title every season, which is what we do in Longview give or take the obvious rebuilding season.

It’s another to expect to win it every season. 

Holmes has a lot of positive things going for him, but also has negatives. King is the same way. Just because we finally finished a year the way we wanted in Longview doesn’t remove them.

Some of his game planning still baffles me (the West Monroe game for example, and the Jesuit game was lost because of it). It’s gonna happen,  especially coaching high school kids.

But I do thing believing/expecting to compete for a title is the first hurdle to getting there. It started back in 2004 for us, I fully believe that first season of Coach King set the belief in motion that we haven’t laid off of since.

The talent sometimes hasn’t been there despite what some Lobo fans believe. 2014-2016 come to mind. I don’t think JTs current talent is what they’ve come use to this last decade. It sounds like it’s coming back soon but it’s not there yet. It’s just something you have to adjust your mind to as the season comes. 

I don’t watch every JT game so I have no idea what it’s like when you’re not playing Longview but there’s no doubt he loves Cujo and wants the best for the program.

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3 hours ago, Mavchamp said:

I think you’re simplifying what it takes to win a state championship. 

Winning a title isn't coaching alone. Yes. It ABSOLUTELY is a factor.  But you need MORE. 

It takes talent at MANY positions. QB, WRs, RB, OL..... DB, LB.   This is big boy football.  A one trick pony won’t do. 

It takes depth.  Staying healthy. 

It takes a little luck.  Don’t care what anyone says to the contrary. 

Match-ups are vital.  And something you can’t control. 

Weather.  We’ve all seen it be a factor in playoff games. 

Sheer numbers.  Look how many schools there are.  Not fair to compare it to 30-team leagues.  Each classification is enormous.  Simple math shows you how hard it is. 

The list goes on and on. 

IMHO.... you guys are wayyyy over simplifying what it takes. 

JT won a title in the 90s.  Statistically I’d bet the likelihood of it happening again are slim.  Same for Marshall, Lufkin, Lee, Longview, Texas High.  All whom have won modern day titles.  

The Katys abd Allens, Aledos, abd Carthages are aberrations. Not the norm.  

Enjoy the ride.  I think we all have deep playoff runs to enjoy in the future. 

But being mad over a lack of state titles seems like a reach for 99% of every program in the state.  No matter what classification. 

It’s hard to do. 

JMHO

It’s extremely hard to do, especially for the current landscape of East Texas in 6A and 5A.

And it takes a lot of luck, whether it comes down to match ups, luck of no injuries, luck of balls going your way. Just look at Longview’s state title game. If West Brook doesn’t fumble the extra point at the start of the fourth, it’s a two score game. That one fumble lifted the entire sideline and fan base and it ended up being the deciding point at the end of things.

As you said, enjoy the ride when you can. 

All dynasties come to an end, including the Carthage’s and Aledo’s of the world. Winning a title is something to be cherished, but so are those runs of four and five games deep.

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2 hours ago, NODAYSOFFTX said:

I don’t think it’s exhausting imo but if that’s not your expectation every year, then I guess that leads us to why none of us besides Longview will win another one. Simply because we don’t set the bar high enough, we are ok with being average. I would think you would want more out of your program. 

I DO want a state championship......every year. My standard hasn’t lowered.  But there is a reality attached to that. 

Firing a winning coach is begging for disaster IMHO.  It can totally backfire on a program.  

Longview waited 80 years for their second.  Been 30 for Marshall....could be another 30.  Same for JT, Lufkin, etc.  Might be this coming season.  You never know.  

It’s not about accepting average.   Not sure how 3rd round runs (and deeper) are called average.

It would be a shame for a program like JT with their recent success ruin it by calling themselves average.

Be careful what you wish for.   

 

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