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Consequences of no football this fall


Mavchamp

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There’s an interesting conversation happening on twitter about this.   Thought I’d bring it here. 

Let’s say UIL cancels football this fall.  What would that mean?  

would alternate leagues form?

Would we see club/elite football explode like we’ve seen with select baseball, AAU basketball, and select soccer?  

These are all real concerns for coaches of those sports.   Could football fall into that trap? 

There would be safety and medical concerns for non UIL football.   Would those leagues and select teams protect players like the UIL? 

What about the loss of coaching and athletic training expertise?   It’s in place for UIL schools. Would it for alternatives?  

End of the day...... kids are going to play football this fall.  One way or another.  in the sandlot, on a travel/select team, or in a pop up league.  

Wouldnt it just be better if UIL proceeds normally and let each district decide if they participate or not based on their communities’s health?  

thoughts??? 

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Question.  Would these other leagues, elite, AAU, private or club still fall under the State mandated COVID regulations?

The financial loss of revenue for schools from football is so much more than most folks realize.  It's huge.  In most cases the football revenue actually drives and helps to fund all the other sports budgets on campus.  Not always, but it does in most football programs in Texas.  The revenue lost by school sports in the spring  pales in relation to the loss of what football revenue would be.

As far as private leagues, I cannot comment because I don't know.

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Speaking from what I know locally.  Lufkin football program (junior high and high school) brought in $246,575 in 2019 before expenses.   So, I know we are not the only ones,  and some programs take in much more if they have made long playoff runs, won championships.   I know that back in the Lufkin good days (2001-2005)  it was not unusual for the Lufkin football program to take in $250,000 a year, which adjusted for inflation today would be about $328,000 in 2020 dollars.    That's all I can comment on.

The game of HS football is big on several levels in Texas. It is a way of life in East Texas where going to games is almost as important as going to church or a family reunion. It is also important to school budgets. Revenue from football goes into district’s activity funds and the overall budget. 

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6 minutes ago, BoHogg said:

That's not much is it when you see LISD budgeted operating expenditures were 1.1 million for athletics/related activities https://rptsvr1.tea.texas.gov/cgi/sas/broker?_service=marykay&_program=sfadhoc.budget_report_2020.sas&_service=appserv&_debug=0&who_box=&who_list=003903

You realize the Lufkin football revenue goes into the school general fund. So, football does produce 1/4th of the  entire athletic budget for all of Lufkin ISD.  That includes all elementary , middle school and high school athletics.   You will find it does for most school districts.  That is $246,000 that are not tax dollars spent.   I am sure Longview's football revenue is much higher, because they have had great playoff success these past few years.   You might check them out too.   Tyler Schools??

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Back to the other points of the question from MavChamp.  Just like the spring season.  I feel for the football seniors if things don't work out.  There are still so many uncertainties here, and what might happen in relation to what will happen.  Hard to just guess these things right now or have a clear opinion.

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Non school football - the cost would be too much for most parents(helmets, shoulder pads, cleats, uniform, etc......plus footing the bill to pay for a field)......most schools would not allow a select team on their field.  

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Let’s look at this from a different perspective.  If no football there will likely be no volleyball or basketball or any other UIL sanctioned events.  No band, academic meets, etc.  That also means no additional cost either.  So would the loss of football revenue really have that big of impact in the fall?  Now if the spring sports are allowed then it could create some shortfalls in the budget, but who is really thinking that far ahead right now?

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51 minutes ago, DawgNation2015 said:

Let’s look at this from a different perspective.  If no football there will likely be no volleyball or basketball or any other UIL sanctioned events.  No band, academic meets, etc.  That also means no additional cost either.  So would the loss of football revenue really have that big of impact in the fall?  Now if the spring sports are allowed then it could create some shortfalls in the budget, but who is really thinking that far ahead right now?

Good point of order.  If they don't play, then the schools don't spend that budgeted money for those fall sports. The only money lost would be gate receipts, possible playoff revenue.   Then a bunch of booster clubs can't raise funds selling their wares.  Lufkin Band Boosters would lose their main source of revenue, stadium concessions.  Still don't want the no fall football option.  COVID shut downs could invariably affect sponsor money spent with schools in their community.  Hard to put a pencil to get a accurate gain or loss number if we don't or do have fall football.

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8 minutes ago, PackAttack said:

Good point of order.  If they don't play, then the schools don't spend that budgeted money for those fall sports. The only money lost would be gate receipts, possible playoff revenue.   Then a bunch of booster clubs can't raise funds selling their wares.   Still don't want the no fall football option.  COVID shut downs could invariably affect sponsor money spent with schools in their community.  Hard to put a pencil to get a accurate gain or loss number if we don't or do have fall football.

I am in favor of in-school instruction (and virtual for immune compromised students) and ALL fall extracurricular activities for students.  But I think the UIL will have to change the current guidance on automatic 14 day quarantine for exposure to Covid.  I think it will have to be for positive Covid test and anyone exposed will be released with a negative Covid test.  Otherwise entire teams will get shut down for two weeks which will create an unsupportable environment.  Teams can still perform without a player or two for two weeks but not if the entire team is sidelined.

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5 hours ago, BoHogg said:

Source?

That's easy to find.  https://www.dallasnews.com/high-school-sports/football/2020/04/26/the-financial-ramifications-of-canceling-spring-hs-sports-and-what-no-football-would-mean-for-uil-area-schools/  .  Even cancelling the spring sports hurt because of the lack of tournaments.  While regular season baseball games don't help much because attendance is low at least it could bring in revenue to offset the costs.  When the teams are successful then they see a profit.  Boys basketball also sees a profit with teams that are winning.  With high school football, that's the bread and butter in Texas.  

I know my alma mater hasn't been very successful in the past 30 years except for a few times.  I've only been to two games in 2007 and 2017, and the home side was about 80% full.  I'd say about 60% for the visitor.  They used to not charge for parking, but they are now for parking spaces close to the stadium.  I wasn't about to pay parking for a high school football game.  I'm sure other schools are now charging for parking as well.  Concessions generally go to the band boosters at least with Pine Tree that's how it went.  They even make money if they don't make the playoffs, because they rent the stadium out for playoff games.  High School football fans in Texas are rabid, and some keep going to games years after they graduated if they live in their home  towns.  Many businesses will close early on Friday nights, because they are either at the games or they know they not going to make much money that night.  

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4 hours ago, PackAttack said:

Back to the other points of the question from MavChamp.  Just like the spring season.  I feel for the football seniors if things don't work out.  There are still so many uncertainties here, and what might happen in relation to what will happen.  Hard to just guess these things right now or have a clear opinion.

I wonder how it will affect scholarships and recruiting as well.  Many seniors don't develop until their senior year, and have a break out season.  That could cost them a scholarship to even perhaps a J.C. that could help path the way to higher level.  All recruiters can go on is what they did on the field as a junior.  To be a walk on and have success in college is limited, and even some walk ons that make the team never receive a full scholarship.  

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1 hour ago, cotton84 said:

Non school football - the cost would be too much for most parents(helmets, shoulder pads, cleats, uniform, etc......plus footing the bill to pay for a field)......most schools would not allow a select team on their field.  

I can't say the school districts wouldn't, because that would be added income for renting the field.  That might change some superintendents mind or the school board to do it for the revenue.  I'm sure they would have them sign a disclaimer if someone did come down with the Wuhan.  

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16 minutes ago, BoHogg said:

I like real data like school budgets and expense/receipt reports. You depend on the McDonalds coffee club?

On my end fall sports is depending on the UIL. Taxes are another subject. From what I hear everyone around the state wants a tax hike. I'm not in agreement because so many people are out of work plus the oilfield is diminished. IMO that's taxing the already established land owners. 

 

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The detrimental effects would be for students, parents, coaches, school staff and fans. Financially, programs would lose outside revenue but those monies only help offset cost. There is not a HS football program in the State whose revenue covers expenses much less the expenses other athletic programs. School districts have athletic programs to enhance the students HS experience not to generate money. 

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I did a little homework just to see how much schools are spending on football/sports.  Can't really find that figure for SPORTS only.  They all list it the same as "extra curricular", which includes band, fine arts, etc, etc.

Here are the figures:

Marshall
Total Budget: $56.8M
Extra Curricular Expenditures: $2.1M

Hallsville
Total Budget: $67.7M
Extra Curricular Expenditures: $1.4M 

Pine Tree
Total Budget: $50.6M
Extra Curricular Expenditures: $2.2M 

Jacksonville
Total Budget: $55.3M
Extra Curricular Expenditures: $1.4M

Nacogdoches
Total Budget: $70.2M
Extra Curricular Expenditures: $2.3M

Whitehouse
Total Budget: $50.2M
Extra Curricular Expenditures: $1.9M

Mount Pleasant
Total Budget: $57.5M
Extra Curricular Expenditures: $1.7M

Texas High
Total Budget: $74.6M
Extra Curricular Expenditures: $2.6Mwwas 

Couple of observations.....

1.  I was pretty shocked that the districts were all pretty close on their total budgets.  All in the $50-58M range.  Texas High and Nac were the outliers because their enrollments are considerably higher than the others in the district.  Hallsville though.....  they rich.  lmao.

2.  Four of the eight spend roughly the same amount on extra curriculars..... but there were some exceptions.  Jacksonville and Hallsville spend almost a million less than everyone else in the district.  MP was pretty low too.  Kind of surprising with Hallsville considering their budget.  

Anyhow.... I'm going to see if I can hunt down how much revenue each football program generates in the district.  Going to reach out to some folks next week to see.  Maybe some people in the know of these programs can share like PackAttack did for LP.

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11 hours ago, Mavchamp said:

I did a little homework just to see how much schools are spending on football/sports.  Can't really find that figure for SPORTS only.  They all list it the same as "extra curricular", which includes band, fine arts, etc, etc.

Here are the figures:

Marshall
Total Budget: $56.8M
Extra Curricular Expenditures: $2.1M

Hallsville
Total Budget: $67.7M
Extra Curricular Expenditures: $1.4M 

Pine Tree
Total Budget: $50.6M
Extra Curricular Expenditures: $2.2M 

Jacksonville
Total Budget: $55.3M
Extra Curricular Expenditures: $1.4M

Nacogdoches
Total Budget: $70.2M
Extra Curricular Expenditures: $2.3M

Whitehouse
Total Budget: $50.2M
Extra Curricular Expenditures: $1.9M

Mount Pleasant
Total Budget: $57.5M
Extra Curricular Expenditures: $1.7M

Texas High
Total Budget: $74.6M
Extra Curricular Expenditures: $2.6Mwwas 

Couple of observations.....

1.  I was pretty shocked that the districts were all pretty close on their total budgets.  All in the $50-58M range.  Texas High and Nac were the outliers because their enrollments are considerably higher than the others in the district.  Hallsville though.....  they rich.  lmao.

2.  Four of the eight spend roughly the same amount on extra curriculars..... but there were some exceptions.  Jacksonville and Hallsville spend almost a million less than everyone else in the district.  MP was pretty low too.  Kind of surprising with Hallsville considering their budget.  

Anyhow.... I'm going to see if I can hunt down how much revenue each football program generates in the district.  Going to reach out to some folks next week to see.  Maybe some people in the know of these programs can share like PackAttack did for LP.

https://rptsvr1.tea.texas.gov/cgi/sas/broker?_service=marykay&_program=sfadhoc.budget_report_2020.sas&_service=appserv&_debug=0&who_box=&who_list=003903

Looking at this document. You can see Lufkin spends $1.1M on Athletic activities and $1.7M on extracurricular activities.    Should these be added together?

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4 hours ago, PackAttack said:

https://rptsvr1.tea.texas.gov/cgi/sas/broker?_service=marykay&_program=sfadhoc.budget_report_2020.sas&_service=appserv&_debug=0&who_box=&who_list=003903

Looking at this document. You can see Lufkin spends $1.1M on Athletic activities and $1.7M on extracurricular activities.    Should these be added together?

If it is, Longview's comes in at a shade under 5 million.

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47 minutes ago, ANTI said:

If it is, Longview's comes in at a shade under 5 million.

Actually $3.8M, Longview (enrollment 8547) spends about $900K more on athletics/extracirricular activities than Lufkin @ $2,9M (enrollment 7839).  Lufkin has a $75M budget and Longview $66M budget.  Very similar districts.

https://rptsvr1.tea.texas.gov/cgi/sas/broker?_service=marykay&_program=sfadhoc.budget_report_2018.sas&_service=appserv&_debug=0&who_box=&who_list=092903

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2 hours ago, ANTI said:

If it is, Longview's comes in at a shade under 5 million.

The $1.7 million is total extra curricular. The $1.1 is a “Program Intent Code 91”that is included within the “Function 36 Extra Curricular” PIC 91 is for salaries specific to that department like stipends or extra days it would not include a teaching salary. 

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2 hours ago, PackAttack said:

Actually $3.8M, Longview (enrollment 8547) spends about $900K more on athletics/extracirricular activities than Lufkin @ $2,9M (enrollment 7839).  Lufkin has a $75M budget and Longview $66M budget.  Very similar districts.

https://rptsvr1.tea.texas.gov/cgi/sas/broker?_service=marykay&_program=sfadhoc.budget_report_2018.sas&_service=appserv&_debug=0&who_box=&who_list=092903

You're looking at 2017-2018.

I'm looking at 2019-2020.

Extracurricular at 2.7 mil, athletics at 2 mil. 4.7 mil.

https://rptsvr1.tea.texas.gov/cgi/sas/broker?_service=marykay&_program=sfadhoc.budget_report_2020.sas&_service=appserv&_debug=0&who_box=&who_list=092903

As for how much revenue does football bring in, I dont know 2019 numbers....but in 2018...it was ALOT. Nearly a 3rd of the total athletic revenue district wide.

All of these new uniforms and equipment the past few years....that new scoreboard wasnt bond money either...even the MS teams have nice uniforms and equipment. You can definitely tell that theres plenty of revenue.

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