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Tyler ISD To Consider Renaming Lee and John Tyler


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I just don’t understand how someone can claim to be patriot to the USA and support the memorialization of the confederacy. 

It was treason per the definition given in the constitution.  They declared war against the USA. 

How can one claim to love this country and yet memorialize those that set out to destroy it???

Defending and celebrating treason. I don’t get it.

As for the school names.... it’s NO ONES business but current students and alumni IMHO.  The ones donning the uniforms and representing the school are the ones that count.   Anyone else’s opinion is pretty irrelevant.

 

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If Tyler ISD is going to rename Lee then you have to look at John Tyler too. Will the city be renamed? Will the county? Rename both or none. 

I got one bad and one good comment.  I challenge each of you to do a bit of reading and learn from the past.  Lots of history out there.  It always puts good against evil.  If you can’t afford books m

Did you sleep through his 8 years of corruption? .... You can't be serious  ...  Here is a good start for you ... https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2017/01/02/18-major-scandals-obama-presidency/

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1 hour ago, KirtFalcon said:

If the Redskins have to change their name because it's disrespectful to the Indians, I guess Nacogdoches and Natchitoches have to change their name too .... 

Our city names are not offensive.

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There are so many angles in changing the names of schools, buildings, removal of statues, etc.  I have no answer for any of it.  I understand people's desire to rename schools and building all of which will come at a financial expense that was not budgeted.  It is an expense that will not just be absorbed.  Someone will pay (taxpayers) and/or something will be given up (budget cuts).

And, as many have pointed out here, what about towns, cities, and counties that were named after people that had a questionable past?  Who gets to choose on where the line will be drawn on what to change and what to keep?  Is it a financial decision at that time or will someone (who?) just concede that it is not "practical"?  Is there a financial cost ceiling?  If it is deemed as not "practical" how will it eloquently be explained away?  People will argue both sides. If you simply put an asterisk beside a city or town name explaining its naming history then those opposed to removing statues will claim the same thing can be done for a statue or school.  Most arguments on both sides have their merits.

So many questions and so few answers.  Emotion and logic collide.  Justice and tradition collide.  My head and heart hurts.

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Not really you put yourself out there with your disdain for everyone not that doesn’t see your view. No one has broken any words and you’re deflecting .  I won’t comment further because of fear of being called a follower of. you in a forum. I don’t wanna have anyone in their feelings. Us backwoods East Texans just like our country and heritage.  I also find it somewhat interesting that people getting worked up about about statues that many didn’t remotely pay attention to nor even knew about. I refuse to get worked up about something that happened 150 years ago . As for the name change both or none. I believe they will keep it because it is not really offensive and it is  just an attempt to appease the Social Justice Warriors.

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Not giving an opinion on this subject but I wanted to do a quick survey.

IF the Flag of Mexico or a statue of Santa Anna went up at the courthouse in your city or town this week, what would be your reaction? 

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8 hours ago, nacdragon07 said:

Our city names are not offensive.

Sarcasm, son, sarcasm ...

The name Redskins isn't offensive either,  just ask the vast majority of native Americans who aren't offended by the name ....

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I'm just curious...

If some of you actually lived in Tyler..... and you had kids attending HS there..... and they schools were named Bobby Seale High School or Malcomb X High School..... and they told you they supported a name change to something less radical or divisive…. wonder how many of you would support THAT change?

I mean...it's history. 

I still think it should come down to what the current students and alumni want.  Everyone else can kick rocks TBH.

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48 minutes ago, Mavchamp said:

I'm just curious...

If some of you actually lived in Tyler..... and you had kids attending HS there..... and they schools were named Bobby Seale High School or Malcomb X High School..... and they told you they supported a name change to something less radical or divisive…. wonder how many of you would support THAT change?

I mean...it's history. 

I still think it should come down to what the current students and alumni want.  Everyone else can kick rocks TBH.

What about the taxpayers? Why would they not have a say? If I am giving money to something I would want a voice.

Just a question.

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5 minutes ago, Hookemhorns88 said:

What about the taxpayers? Why would they not have a say? If I am giving money to something I would want a voice.

Just a question.

Taxpayers are the ONLY ones who should have a say in the matter.......

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2 hours ago, JTFAN99 said:

Not giving an opinion on this subject but I wanted to do a quick survey.

IF the Flag of Mexico or a statue of Santa Anna went up at the courthouse in your city or town this week, what would be your reaction? 

Wouldn’t care because they lost and I am a Texan . 

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2 hours ago, JTFAN99 said:

Not giving an opinion on this subject but I wanted to do a quick survey.

IF the Flag of Mexico or a statue of Santa Anna went up at the courthouse in your city or town this week, what would be your reaction? 

 

1 hour ago, Mavchamp said:

I'm just curious...

If some of you actually lived in Tyler..... and you had kids attending HS there..... and they schools were named Bobby Seale High School or Malcomb X High School..... and they told you they supported a name change to something less radical or divisive…. wonder how many of you would support THAT change?

I mean...it's history. 

I still think it should come down to what the current students and alumni want.  Everyone else can kick rocks TBH.

Irrelevant strawmen finally make an appearance.....😅😅😅😅

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5 minutes ago, WestHardinfan1 said:

 

Irrelevant strawmen finally make an appearance.....😅😅😅😅

Only irrelevant to you because we all know what your answer would be and you would be the very definition of a hypocrite.

You would be at the TISD office  for every meeting supporting that change.

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11 hours ago, Mavchamp said:

I just don’t understand how someone can claim to be patriot to the USA and support the memorialization of the confederacy. 

It was treason per the definition given in the constitution.  They declared war against the USA. 

How can one claim to love this country and yet memorialize those that set out to destroy it???

Defending and celebrating treason. I don’t get it.

As for the school names.... it’s NO ONES business but current students and alumni IMHO.  The ones donning the uniforms and representing the school are the ones that count.   Anyone else’s opinion is pretty irrelevant.

 

How can you say that our opinion is irrelevant?  And you act like I am saying "Don't Do It!"  I am saying, why are they going after the school first?  You know this isn't coming from the parents and students.  This is coming from the political PC crowds outside of the schools.  This action is being put forth by the "must act now to show we are doing something" group on the school board.  Tear it down and rename it... that doesn't matter as much to me except, the people pressuring them will see this as the ultimate win and never blink and eye or give 2 poops about the city name and who it is named after.  <That is what bothers me.>  

You come from a town that is as racist as it gets when it comes to division between blacks and whites.  Marshall would be looking at the same problem if we had buildings named after racial figures.  The only real segregation that happens in Marshall is Wiley College.  So with that being said, is it the buildings and names making people racist or is it the people just being racists?  I think its the latter.  Change the people, not the names.

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15 minutes ago, Mavchamp said:

Only irrelevant to you because we all know what your answer would be and you would be the very definition of a hypocrite.

You would be at the TISD office  for every meeting supporting that change.

😅😅😅😅

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Robert E Lee fought in war for our country... owned slaves. 
 

John Tyler owned slaves in our country....

Mexico has good food but in another country.......

Apples to oranges. 
 

Another dumb thing is compare these times to Germany. Last I checked we are going around Holocaust’n and genocide’n........

Change the redskins name, ok. Might as well change every other one too. They all will fit someone’s agenda. 

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9 minutes ago, Eagleborn said:

Robert E Lee fought in war for our country... owned slaves. 
 

He also fought AGAINST our country — though later supported unity — and was openly AGAINST racial equality until he died. He is historic, no doubt, and needs to remain an integral part of American history books. But he is not and was not a hero, and I think it's a valid conversation to have: wondering whether or not a school with a large population of people of color should be named after this man, much less have statues erected to honor his legacy.

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14 minutes ago, Eagleborn said:

Robert E Lee fought in war for our country... owned slaves. 
 

John Tyler owned slaves in our country....

Mexico has good food but in another country.......

Apples to oranges. 
 

Another dumb thing is compare these times to Germany. Last I checked we are going around Holocaust’n and genocide’n........

Change the redskins name, ok. Might as well change every other one too. They all will fit someone’s agenda. 

Not really, the argument is that we should keep the flags and statues up because its history.  Texas was once part of the confederacy...And also once part of Mexico. And I'm sure there people in the state who ancestors fought on the Mexican side. Its really the same argument.  

We can agree to disagree, BUT I would like to know your answer to the question. 

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4 minutes ago, MavGrad99 said:

How can you say that our opinion is irrelevant?  And you act like I am saying "Don't Do It!"  I am saying, why are they going after the school first?  You know this isn't coming from the parents and students.  This is coming from the political PC crowds outside of the schools.  This action is being put forth by the "must act now to show we are doing something" group on the school board.  Tear it down and rename it... that doesn't matter as much to me except, the people pressuring them will see this as the ultimate win and never blink and eye or give 2 poops about the city name and who it is named after.  <That is what bothers me.>  

You come from a town that is as racist as it gets when it comes to division between blacks and whites.  Marshall would be looking at the same problem if we had buildings named after racial figures.  The only real segregation that happens in Marshall is Wiley College.  So with that being said, is it the buildings and names making people racist or is it the people just being racists?  I think its the latter.  Change the people, not the names.

I won't deny there might be outside voices piping in on the issue..... and there should NOT be.   

But almost all of the people that spoke at the TISD meeting (both FOR and AGAINST) were all either current students or alumni. 

As for the city name..... same thing.  If the residents of Tyler want to change it..... go for it.  If they don't..... good for them.  Let them decide.  Our opinions just don't matter when we are in Longview, Aledo, or Tatum. 

As for Marshall..... luckily our school board had the foresight to not carry the old REL name to any of the new schools.  But it could be an issue with others. 

As for changing people.... this thread shows me all I need to know about people's willingness to change.

 

3 minutes ago, WestHardinfan1 said:

😅😅😅😅

You call me a strawman...… but you never answer a question. 

Not sure if it makes you look more like a coward.... or just too unintelligent to defend your beliefs without memes and emojis. 

 

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I'd need a true historian to verify this, and I'll try to find a source, but if my memory is correct, Robert E Lee himself was against any monuments, statues, naming of buildings, etc. that would honor the Confederacy, and argued it would not ever allow the victims ability to heal.

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10 minutes ago, d0tc0m said:

He also fought AGAINST our country — though later supported unity — and was openly AGAINST racial equality until he died. He is historic, no doubt, and needs to remain an integral part of American history books. But he is not and was not a hero, and I think it's a valid conversation to have: wondering whether or not a school with a large population of people of color should be named after this man, much less have statues erected to honor his legacy.

Couldn’t we find fault on everyone sins . Would you shoot against your fellow Texans? Lee wasn’t going to attack Virginia , that is why he told Lincoln No in commanding the North. 

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1 hour ago, Raiderfan7000 said:

Wouldn’t care because they lost and I am a Texan . 

So I assume that you don't care if Conferdate flags or monuments come up or go down either...because they lost as well.

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3 minutes ago, d0tc0m said:

I'd need a true historian to verify this, and I'll try to find a source, but if my memory is correct, Robert E Lee himself was against any monuments, statues, naming of buildings, etc. that would honor the Confederacy, and argued it would not ever allow the victims ability to heal.

I agree but so much time has past so the victims wouldn’t be reminded of the sins. 

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