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Tyler ISD To Consider Renaming Lee and John Tyler


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1 minute ago, JTFAN99 said:

So I assume that you don't care if Conferdate flags or monuments come up or go down either...because they lost as well.

Not really but I won’t condemn anyone that wants to honor their heritage either. However, I never got worked up over a freakin statue either. 

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If Tyler ISD is going to rename Lee then you have to look at John Tyler too. Will the city be renamed? Will the county? Rename both or none. 

I got one bad and one good comment.  I challenge each of you to do a bit of reading and learn from the past.  Lots of history out there.  It always puts good against evil.  If you can’t afford books m

Did you sleep through his 8 years of corruption? .... You can't be serious  ...  Here is a good start for you ... https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2017/01/02/18-major-scandals-obama-presidency/

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47 minutes ago, Mavchamp said:

Only irrelevant to you because we all know what your answer would be and you would be the very definition of a hypocrite.

You would be at the TISD office  for every meeting supporting that change.

I’m surprised his buddy isn’t in here crying about a possible name change. And the one from Carthage too...

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1 minute ago, Raiderfan7000 said:

Couldn’t we find fault on everyone sins . Would you shoot against your fellow Texans? Lee wasn’t going to attack Virginia , that is why he told Lincoln No in commanding the North. 

Absolutely we could! And I can assure you, I've got a laundry list of sins that make me a testament to the need of saving grace. We all live in glass houses!

I often joke with people up here in Missouri that I'm Texan waaaaay before I'm American, and I would take up arms to defend Texas before I would America. Now, that's a somewhat tongue-in-cheek comment and that's me being an arrogant Texan and painting with a broad brush. But there is some legitimate truth to it. Is that the right mindset? Probably not. It's certainly not a patriotic mindset.

But when it comes to historical context and how people are remembered/honored, if I betray this country, or take up arms against it and fight under a different flag AGAINST the Stars and Stripes, well I don't think I need to be heralded as a hero in THIS country and have buildings named after me or statues constructed in my honor, ESPECIALLY if I fought FOR the further oppression of people who do not look like, think like, or believe like me.

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9 minutes ago, Mavchamp said:

I won't deny there might be outside voices piping in on the issue..... and there should NOT be.   

But almost all of the people that spoke at the TISD meeting (both FOR and AGAINST) were all either current students or alumni. 

As for the city name..... same thing.  If the residents of Tyler want to change it..... go for it.  If they don't..... good for them.  Let them decide.  Our opinions just don't matter when we are in Longview, Aledo, or Tatum. 

As for Marshall..... luckily our school board had the foresight to not carry the old REL name to any of the new schools.  But it could be an issue with others. 

As for changing people.... this thread shows me all I need to know about people's willingness to change.

 

You call me a strawman...… but you never answer a question. 

Not sure if it makes you look more like a coward.... or just too unintelligent to defend your beliefs without memes and emojis. 

 

People change through education.  I grew up around a bunch of rednecks.  "Black people are bad because they are different" kind of people.  Well, growing up in Woodlawn, you don't really get to see and know black people except in school.  My best friend in elementary school was Norman Thomas... a black kid...  if certain people in my family and community found out they would have crapped themselves.  There was a family across the railroad tracks that I can't remember their name because we just called her "mamma" that I went to school with her kids, then I took care of her grandkids when they were at MHS...  I chose to see the good in people.  There are plenty of interactions growing up in Marshall where I could have labeled most of the black race as thugs.  However, there have been too many good people who grew up in those same situations in Marshall that were/are good people.  They could have hated white people for the same reason.  Too many rednecks in Marshall that hate black people just because they were taught to hate.  They all used to stand just outside of the doors to the left of the main entrance at lunch wearing their Wranglers and boots in 100 degree weather.  

All that I ask, is all of you people, white, black, hispanic, etc...  Raise your children to give themselves a chance to love each individual for who they are.  Not for the group that they are a part of.  Not for the history of their people.  Not for the actions of someone they may have known.  You can't call yourself a true believer in Christ if you hate an individual that you know nothing about.

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2 minutes ago, d0tc0m said:

Absolutely we could! And I can assure you, I've got a laundry list of sins that make me a testament to the need of saving grace. We all live in glass houses!

I often joke with people up here in Missouri that I'm Texan waaaaay before I'm American, and I would take up arms to defend Texas before I would America. Now, that's a somewhat tongue-in-cheek comment and that's me being an arrogant Texan and painting with a broad brush. But there is some legitimate truth to it. Is that the right mindset? Probably not. It's certainly not a patriotic mindset.

But when it comes to historical context and how people are remembered/honored, if I betray this country, or take up arms against it and fight under a different flag AGAINST the Stars and Stripes, well I don't think I need to be heralded as a hero in THIS country and have buildings named after me or statues constructed in my honor, ESPECIALLY if I fought FOR the further oppression of people who do not look like, think like, or believe like me.

I get your point and believe it as well.

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9 minutes ago, Raiderfan7000 said:

Not really but I won’t condemn anyone that wants to honor their heritage either. However, I never got worked up over a freakin statue either. 

yayyyy treason!!!!

 

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4 minutes ago, Raiderfan7000 said:

Couldn’t you say the same from Mexico ? I mean we were apart of that country .

I mean, the United States was established via a violent protest and rebellion against its own sovereign nation and crown. The irony abounds for those "patriots" who have been against the mostly peaceful BLM protests*

*edited because I wasn't singling you out or accusing you of being one of those people, Raider, I was simply pointing out a humorous observation.

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1 minute ago, Raiderfan7000 said:

Have you ever looked at statue and got visibly upset? Everyone wants to be a social justice warrior or doesn’t wanna be cancelled.

I'm a person slow to anger...However, I understand human emotion.  I'm sure a Hitler statue in Tel Aviv Israel or New York City would upset alot of people. 

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1 minute ago, JTFAN99 said:

I'm a person slow to anger...However, I understand human emotion.  I'm sure a Hitler statue in Tel Aviv Israel or New York City would upset alot of people. 

I get the point of that and I agree. 

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15 hours ago, Raiderfan7000 said:

Wait until he finds out the first legal slave owner was black and successfully sued to keep them in the 1600s . We won’t get into the actually sold said slaves to the white peoples. 

Don't really want to dive into this, but the first legal slave owner in the US wasn't black.  It is true that Anthony Johnson (who was black man and ex indentured servant aka slave) did sue to keep another indentured servant in 1650s. Legal slave ownership started decades before this. Look up John Winthrop 1641.  Of course he wasn't the first either, but his court case for legal slavery is proof that Anthony Johnson wasn't the first.

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52 minutes ago, JTFAN99 said:

hmmm...you didn't answer the question...lol

Thats because the question was an irrelevant hypothetical......

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10 minutes ago, JTFAN99 said:

Don't really want to dive into this, but the first legal slave owner in the US wasn't black.  It is true that Anthony Johnson (who was black man and ex indentured servant aka slave) did sue to keep another indentured servant in 1650s. Legal slave ownership started decades before this. Look up John Winthrop 1641.  Of course he wasn't the first either, but his court case for legal slavery is proof that Anthony Johnson wasn't the first.

I stand corrected. I see it a deplorable act and no one should have been in chains. Also plenty of civilizations had slavery. Biblical times there were slaves all races alike.

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48 minutes ago, Mavchamp said:

I won't deny there might be outside voices piping in on the issue..... and there should NOT be.   

But almost all of the people that spoke at the TISD meeting (both FOR and AGAINST) were all either current students or alumni. 

As for the city name..... same thing.  If the residents of Tyler want to change it..... go for it.  If they don't..... good for them.  Let them decide.  Our opinions just don't matter when we are in Longview, Aledo, or Tatum. 

As for Marshall..... luckily our school board had the foresight to not carry the old REL name to any of the new schools.  But it could be an issue with others. 

As for changing people.... this thread shows me all I need to know about people's willingness to change.

 

You call me a strawman...… but you never answer a question. 

Not sure if it makes you look more like a coward.... or just too unintelligent to defend your beliefs without memes and emojis. 

 

I called your argument a strawman....irrelevant hypothetical dont require an answer....expecting an answer to such rubbish shows ignorance on your part not mine......

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54 minutes ago, Mavchamp said:

I won't deny there might be outside voices piping in on the issue..... and there should NOT be.   

But almost all of the people that spoke at the TISD meeting (both FOR and AGAINST) were all either current students or alumni. 

As for the city name..... same thing.  If the residents of Tyler want to change it..... go for it.  If they don't..... good for them.  Let them decide.  Our opinions just don't matter when we are in Longview, Aledo, or Tatum. 

As for Marshall..... luckily our school board had the foresight to not carry the old REL name to any of the new schools.  But it could be an issue with others. 

As for changing people.... this thread shows me all I need to know about people's willingness to change.

 

You call me a strawman...… but you never answer a question. 

Not sure if it makes you look more like a coward.... or just too unintelligent to defend your beliefs without memes and emojis. 

 

Changing names cost a lot of money.  It is doubtful that the outside influences will lend a dime.

About 15 years ago, the company that I work for re-branded themselves.  At the time it was a company of about 2000 employees globally.  The price tag to do so was around $2M.  Just think about the costs of renaming a city or cities and to a lesser extent schools/buildings.

It is not without precedent though as South Africa has done so with some of it's communities.  Of course I would not use South Africa as a model of how to do things.  And yes, I can speak from experience with SA as I go there a couple of times of year and have been doing so for the last 15+ years.

That being said, this is a "one time cost" that should be fully vetted and if the folks that want to change fully understand the cost then they should proceed.  In the grand scheme of things it may be a small price to pay to change considering the cost that many have already endured throughout their life of suppression but by changing the name they will still have some financial responsibility with the change.  And then some will not care because they do not pay school taxes.

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2 minutes ago, WestHardinfan1 said:

Not school taxes.....

Not true. Public schools are funded by the Federal, State and Local gov. Half does come from local property tax, the other half comes from federal and state through income tax and sales tax.

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Just now, JTFAN99 said:

Not true. Public schools are funded by the Federal, State and Local gov. Half does come from local property tax, the other half comes from federal and state through income tax and sales tax.

Let me rephrase then....if you dont pay taxes in the ISD you should not have a say in the thing.....

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6 minutes ago, WestHardinfan1 said:

Thats because the question was an irrelevant hypothetical......

or maybe you know its a great question, and you refuse to answer because....nevermind.

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1 minute ago, WestHardinfan1 said:

Let me rephrase then....if you dont pay taxes in the ISD you should not have a say in the thing.....

I'm fine with that if the ISD refuses federal and local funding....WAIT....that would never happen.

 

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18 minutes ago, MavGrad99 said:

All that I ask, is all of you people, white, black, hispanic, etc...  Raise your children to give themselves a chance to love each individual for who they are.  Not for the group that they are a part of.  Not for the history of their people.  Not for the actions of someone they may have known.  You can't call yourself a true believer in Christ if you hate an individual that you know nothing about.

I agree with this 100%

Unfortunately...this doesn't happen..... especially on this forum.

I've always considered myself a "Reagan Republican"..... which use to be a well-loved name for a moderate/compassionate republican.... now you get called a RHINO and thrown in the same heap as a blue dog liberal.  Which I'm most definitely not.

We live in a world today that people cant agree to disagree anymore.  The hate from the right is just as outrageous as the hate from the left.

But on SDC..... I've gotten a ton more hate from the Trumpster crowd than the left.  I hail from the GOP.... but I don't follow the Cheeto's marching orders. 

GOP far right is in this my way or the highway mode right now. 

Back on topic..... let the people of Tyler decide about their schools.  Those of us outside of TISD should respect whatever decision they make.

 

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21 minutes ago, WestHardinfan1 said:

I called your argument a strawman....irrelevant hypothetical dont require an answer....expecting an answer to such rubbish shows ignorance on your part not mine......

We all know why you won't answer it.  Not because it's irrelevant.... it's because it reveals something about yourself you won't admit.

 

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