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A sampling of Voter Fraud...


Monte1076

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5 minutes ago, Old49er60 said:

Just curious, what is the percentage of voter fraud? I see the numbers and the dates and it appears this list goes back to 1948. So is this an example of widespread voter fraud?  It makes it seem like it is not widespread in the least. It looks like the percentage would be infinitesimally small when you consider all elections since 1948. I mean even if you went from 1990 it is extremely small. Not a good way to prove a point by showing how rare it happens. Now with that said I am 100% behind voter ID and if mail in voting is wrong then should it not be wrong for Congress and the Military? Then you have President Trump saying we should push the election back after he said there was no reason in April and May to push elections back. Lots of contradictions. 

What percentage is acceptable?

"Widespread" is a weasel word, too.

There have already been a few instances of voter fraud just in the past year or so. See the recent instance in Paterson, New Jersey:

https://www.nj.com/passaic-county/2020/06/voting-fraud-charges-filed-against-paterson-councilman-and-councilman-elect.html

I think absentee voting (which is what you're talking about for the military) is a different process with different safeguards. Most states have zero safeguards in place, as far as I know, for full mail-in voting.

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17 minutes ago, Old49er60 said:

How the old trick question "what would be acceptable" Well the percentage is less than .00005% so trying to say it is wide spread is not following the numbers. So no mail in voting, ok  then why can members of congress and the military? I mean in reality we have seen this for awhile now with absentee voting but sure I can go for that, now why have so many polling places been closed over the last few years? Should we not open up more polling places? And just of note if you go through those cases you will find it is about equal dem to gop in the fraud department. 

I do find it strange that you ask what % is acceptable, so what % is acceptable of teachers and children dying of covid? what % is acceptable of people dying when in police custody? We could ask that question for so many things and in the end it is always a trick question attempting to get the other person to appear as though they do not care. So what percentage of deaths to covid is acceptable? 

Your second paragraph is a deflection. You know the answer.

And I don't care if it's GOP fraud or Dem fraud. It's still fraud, it's still wrong, and it's still illegal.

I'll tell you what, though: If you can point me to the safeguards in every state to prevent mail in voter fraud, and if you can guarantee me that mail-in ballots won't just be "found" or "lost", and every vote that is legally cast (emphasis there) is counted, then we can talk about how secure mail-in voting is.

Can you?

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4 minutes ago, Old49er60 said:

You are correct it is wrong and illegal and should be stopped, but you know lying under oath is wrong and illegal and people should not be let off the hook when they do it regardless of party. 

As far as deflection, no it shows the hypocrisy. Now you want me to point to a dem hypocrisy? How about being against the death penalty but for abortion, so yes it goes both ways but fact still remains voter fraud is not the issue the GOP has tried to make it. As for your safeguards, PUT THEM IN PLACE then. Tell me exactly what the safeguards are for congress voting by mail. 

I'm not sure either party wants them put into place, because then it's no longer a "wedge" issue.

I don't know what the safeguards are. Do you? The last time I voted, I went to the polling place (wearing a mask and gloves), voted electronically, got my printout, and placed it in the scanning machine.

Do I have any way of knowing, once I drop my ballot in the mail, that it'll get there?

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2 minutes ago, Old49er60 said:

I did not see this sorry, no I do not know the safeguards but you mentioned them for congress and the military so exactly what are they?  

Now for starting schools if you can GUARANTEE every TEACHER, STUDENTS, ADMIN, JANITOR, NURSE, CAFETERIA WORKER,  PARAPROFESSIONAL, AND BUS DRIVER,  can be safe we can talk about how secure it is............you see how that works? It is not a productive talk because you know there are no guarantees. 

Have I voiced an opinion either way about schools opening? Can you tell me if I have?

I understand the point you're trying to make, but what's to stop anyone from voting for anyone else? Someone could quite literally walk down the street I live on, take people's ballots out of the mailboxes, and just throw them away.

I'm 100% in favor of voter ID, too. But don't you know you're not supposed to be?

I only want people who are legally eligible to vote to do so. And I want their votes counted -- once. Just like they're supposed to be.

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Mail in voter fraud is potentially a very real problem.  I worry about ballot harvesting and I think it is just as big a problem as mail in voter fraud.  There were numerous cases the past couple of election cycles where long after the polls were closed and votes were counted that suddenly thousands of ballots were mysteriously found ... and you guessed it, they were all for the dimocrat candidate .... something needs to be done about ballot harvesting even if we don't go to widespread mail in voting .... the dimturds are finding all kind of ways to cheat and rig elections ....

Edited by KirtFalcon
yo mama
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8 minutes ago, Old49er60 said:

You are correct people could do that, they could also walk down the street and take a person social security check yet they still get mailed. 

Why am I not supposed to be for voter ID? 

And I agree with you on the last sentence I want that as well/

As for schools, well dont you know you are supposed to be all for schools opening. I notice you did not answer my question.......

You're not supposed to be for voter ID because apparently it's racist and discriminates against the elderly.

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9 minutes ago, Old49er60 said:

So you now know me? 

Again you avoid the items I ask. So is voter fraud widespread based upon article since 1948? And if any is too much then how many deaths are too much to covid in schools? 

Never said I knew you. Just giving you a Democratic "talking point" about Voter ID.

Again, "widespread" is a weasel word.

And again, if you want to play that game: How many deaths by car crashes are acceptable? How many shooting deaths are acceptable? How many deaths by (insert way to die here) are acceptable?

We can go on and on.

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40 minutes ago, Old49er60 said:

the GOP currently want to claim voter fraud is a huge issue the facts do not support that. And that is using the information provided in your original post. So do you believe a .0000044% since 2000 is a real problem? Now if you say any is too many then we are back to the how many teachers etc........

It doesn't have to be a huge issue. It just has to "flip" one or two states.

Is .0000044% a problem? That depends. Were any elections affected by it? Data suggests yes. Especially since a mayoral (I believe) election was overturned because of it.

Do you believe the potential for problems is there? That's part of the reason seat belt laws exist, to use your example. There's the potential that when you get in your car, you're going to have an accident. Heck, when I was a kid, before seat belt laws were enacted, I used to sit on the armrest of the passenger side door so I could see out the window better. Ever lay up in the back dash of the car? I know people who did.

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2 hours ago, Old49er60 said:

How the old trick question "what would be acceptable" Well the percentage is less than .00005% so trying to say it is wide spread is not following the numbers. So no mail in voting, ok  then why can members of congress and the military? I mean in reality we have seen this for awhile now with absentee voting but sure I can go for that, now why have so many polling places been closed over the last few years? Should we not open up more polling places? And just of note if you go through those cases you will find it is about equal dem to gop in the fraud department. 

I do find it strange that you ask what % is acceptable, so what % is acceptable of teachers and children dying of covid? what % is acceptable of people dying when in police custody? We could ask that question for so many things and in the end it is always a trick question attempting to get the other person to appear as though they do not care. So what percentage of deaths to covid is acceptable? 

Mysteriously, Flu deaths have been eradicated this year! Good news? Everybody has Covid, especially dead folks who can’t speak for themselves. 🤨🙄

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5 minutes ago, Old49er60 said:

They have? That is not supported by the data we have. In fact the data says they were at the same rate as last year and the year before. 

They have been grouped into the COVID count. Do you know anyone personally, who has died of the flu this year? I don’t.

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/preliminary-in-season-estimates.htm

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15 minutes ago, Old49er60 said:

Data suggest yes? Please show because the point of the original post by the Heritage Foundation is to show voter fraud and as we have seen in this thread people believe ONLY dems do it though the actual data shows it is about even. So should we have voter ID I believe I already said yes. As for mail in voting I said if you do not want it fine but eliminate it for congress and the military as well as absentee. But we have seen that the GOP doesnt want that eliminated because they believe more people who support them vote in that manner than dems. Now I asked about closing polling places, do you believe it was right to close so many polling places in low income areas? Is there a potential that closing these limits the voting from people who are lower social economic status? We can do this back and forth and it gets no where. Here are the facts, voter fraud is not a big issue and that is supported by the facts in your article. That does not mean we do not need voter laws, it means that they have worked. Mail in voting does have potentials for issue, but if we use absentee, military, and congress as examples we do not see a major issue. Closing polling places in low income areas was wrong (my opinion) and limits the ability for people to vote and if we are not going to do mail in voting we need to expand early voting and the number of polling places. 

I believe in the data in the post (I forget which state) shows unequivocally that it does indeed happen. I don't care if it's R or D doing it, it shouldn't happen. And yes, as I noted, that document also shows (again, I forget which state) that a mayoral election was overturned by a judge because of voter fraud. That says that yes, it can affect elections.

As far as polling places, sure, open them where you can. But what about the people who don't take time to early vote, and then can't do it on election day for whatever reason?

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2 hours ago, Old49er60 said:

I know about the votes being found can you please show me where they were all for democrats please? 

I should have said ... In every case reported, the dimocrat candidate unproportionable gained votes from normal voting trends .... a few races were even flipped to the dimocrat because of these harvested ballots ... It's never the other way around .... tru storie .... ballot harvesting is real .... 

Edited by KirtFalcon
yo mama
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20 minutes ago, Old49er60 said:

Please show that data. 

Not going to do your research for you ... it's been posted on here before and the articles are all over the internet ... you are late to the game .... 

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2 hours ago, Old49er60 said:

You are correct and it was Miami yet while using that case you are actually showing they system works. The people were caught and the results invalidated. Do you drive on any roads were there have been people killed? Do you expect that to happen to yourself? Of course you do not but you use one case, that was caught, since 1948 as an example and treat it as the norm. So what would be the percentage of elections that has happened in since 1948........can we just agree it would be extremely small. I already know your answer, it should never happen, and again no teacher or child should die yet the Secretary of Education said it would be 1% or less so open the schools. You said you do not care R or D yet in this thread we have seen people who believe it is only one side when in fact over the last few years it is a higher percentage of republicans, just look at North Carolina. 

I gave an option and you tried to create another issue, what do those people do now?  

Make it secure, and make sure that everyone who is legally eligible to vote can vote, and only vote once.

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49 minutes ago, Old49er60 said:

States handle voting as stated in Article 1 of the Constitution. You are implying that it is not secure and people can vote multiple times as laid out by state law.  How do you make sure everyone who can legally vote can vote? Do you think closing polling places in low income areas do that? 

Are you wanting the federal government to be in charge of voting? 

No, I don't think closing polling places does that. I do, however, think that many states that don't normally vote by mail don't have the time -- legislatively -- to put safeguards in place before November. But you must ask yourself: Do you trust state governments to "do the right thing" (whatever you believe the right thing is)?

What recourse do you have if someone steals your ballot from your mailbox and votes in your place? Is a signature enough? And what if you actually do sign your ballot, but some election judge somewhere doesn't think it's close enough to your signature and throws it out?

I absolutely do not want the Federal government to be in charge of voting.

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6 minutes ago, Old49er60 said:

We have had a good discussion but I believe I have already answered this. If there should not be vote by mail then we should not have congress, military, or absentee do it. And if I read your response correct you are saying closing polling places in low income areas is ok? 

As for trusting states, I believe politicians are in it for themselves and the people mean nothing, regardless of party. 

Sorry, I mistyped. My thoughts got ahead of my typing. I don't think we should be closing down polling places. I'd actually like to see them open a little earlier on election day. Say, 6AM. I early vote, anyway.

So if you believe politicians are in it for themselves, then how hard would it actually be for them to convince people in their campaigns to oh, I don't know, get rid of some votes, or possibly "find" votes?

But let me ask you a few questions:

1. Compared to previous elections, how much "voter fraud" do you think will go on?

2. If you think a party is going to "cheat", which one, and how?

3. Do you think the general public is going to feel confident in the results of the election?

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11 minutes ago, Raiderfan7000 said:

You know that is not the same . Democrats use any measure necessary to defeat Trump. Ridiculous to think otherwise.

I actually saw a video yesterday that said for every election that Republicans have won since 1968, Democrats have claimed that election is illegitimate.

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2 hours ago, Monte1076 said:

I actually saw a video yesterday that said for every election that Republicans have won since 1968, Democrats have claimed that election is illegitimate.

And when the democrats win then "the people have spoken." 

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50 minutes ago, Old49er60 said:

I went to the opinion article. I wanted to see where he got his facts. The opinion article is heavy on rhetoric but a bit light on facts. The claim makes it appear that all democrats claim it is illegitimate, which we in fact know is false. The examples he sites lack names and backing of persons in the DNC. 

Now let me ask you some questions

1. Compared to previous elections, how much "voter fraud" do you think will go on?

2. If you think a party is going to "cheat", which one, and how?

3. Do you think the general public is going to feel confident in the results of the election?

1. I have no idea.

2. It wouldn't surprise me of they both try shenanigans.

3. No.

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44 minutes ago, Old49er60 said:

He mentions the Paris Peace talks, however the notes from Nixon do not back what he claimed. If you have other items from a primary source such as Nixon himself I would love to see them

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/notes-indicate-nixon-interfered-1968-peace-talks-180961627/

I do know that a lot of Democrats have screamed "Illegitimate!!" over the last two Republican Presidents. Remember Bush v Gore? How Democrats screamed Bush "stole" the election?

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