Tyler High @ McKinney North

[VonG]

17 minutes ago, NODAYSOFFTX said:

The time is now

It could actually backfire against JT. You'll get someone like Ratliff again. There is no guarantee you'll get a good coach. It might look good on a resume but it could be another bad hire. This could set JT back another 5 years. 

[LoboFan07]

15 minutes ago, VonG said:

It could actually backfire against JT. You'll get someone like Ratliff again. There is no guarantee you'll get a good coach. It might look good on a resume but it could be another bad hire. This could set JT back another 5 years. 

I mean, y'all are on a 7-game losing streak. You went 3-8 last season, you're staring 2-7 if not worse in the face this year. Yes, you had an unexpected good playoff run in 2018. But 2017 was bad too by Cujo's standards with a 5-5 record.

Is backfiring meaning like 0-10 in multiple seasons or ?

[3rdcoastent]

https://www.buzzsprout.com/1363513/episodes/6048895-lions-drop-game-to-mcnorth-with-bye-week-coming-here-is-what-should-improve-there-are-good-signs-plus-money-making-stories-and-more

[JTFAN99]

6 hours ago, LionHated said:

Different era, different styles of play. Morris would've never been asked to throw the ball 30 times in a game, nor would he have needed to. This once proud program didn't just break, it's been broken for quite awhile now. It's not about the players, its about the pride of the guy leading them. It used to be, we could beat you just because we were JT (btw I'm never saying TH) and the pride that came with that. That meant something. No one fears these JT teams anymore, nor should they. This is what happens when you can't constantly (out)athlete teams. The allure has worn off that dusty old 94 state championship trophy lol. Not even being able to field a freshman team? Com' on, mannn!!

agreed. I don't expect them to out athlete everyone. But I do expect solid coaching. Its a reason you not getting alot of kids to come out.  Its tons of kids playing little league and middle school football in Tyler. Lee/Legacy can get players and they haven't done anything lately.  Cujo has won recently and now they can't field a freshman team.  Its got to be a reason for that.

By the way, Morris actually had very good passing stats, considering how m uch they ran the ball.  He threw the ball much more than other qbs during Wilson era.

 

[JTFAN99]

3 hours ago, VonG said:

It could actually backfire against JT. You'll get someone like Ratliff again. There is no guarantee you'll get a good coach. It might look good on a resume but it could be another bad hire. This could set JT back another 5 years. 

Im willing to give another yr because this is a young team, but at some point you got to take the risk for the sake of the school. I think if the job comes open, you may see some solid applicants. 

[VonG]

Just breaking down JTs demographics. It's hard to fill a successful team year in and year out. You have less than 100 whites,  about 700 blacks, and 1300+ hispanics. Half of the blacks are girls. Which gives you 350 boys. You start breaking the boys down into different sports and I see why he has to add freshman to the jv and varsity. You got band, basketball, cross country, baseball, track, rotc, and some kids who don't participate in anything and you see why the numbers are so low. He has less than 130 kids in his program give or take. It would be hard for any coach to succeed in 5a d1. He has 4a and under type numbers. I can't blame him for everything that is going wrong with JT. Some years it doesn't matter how many kids he has because he has a very talented bunch. Some years numbers do matter because the talent is not there. It's going to be hard for any coach with them type of numbers in 5a d1.

[JTFAN99]

1 hour ago, VonG said:

Just breaking down JTs demographics. It's hard to fill a successful team year in and year out. You have less than 100 whites,  about 700 blacks, and 1300+ hispanics. Half of the blacks are girls. Which gives you 350 boys. You start breaking the boys down into different sports and I see why he has to add freshman to the jv and varsity. You got band, basketball, cross country, baseball, track, rotc, and some kids who don't participate in anything and you see why the numbers are so low. He has less than 130 kids in his program give or take. It would be hard for any coach to succeed in 5a d1. He has 4a and under type numbers. I can't blame him for everything that is going wrong with JT. Some years it doesn't matter how many kids he has because he has a very talented bunch. Some years numbers do matter because the talent is not there. It's going to be hard for any coach with them type of numbers in 5a d1.

nah Von.  Gilmer has 700 students total and they have more players in their program than Cujo. Than can field 2 freshman teams.

Longview like Cujo black population has dropped a ton.  Alot of blacks are going to Pine Tree now.  But they got more players than ever.  

Coach Holmes is from North Tyler. He is young. He should be able to relate to these kids. He went the school with alot of their parents. He knows the culture. He should be able to get kids to play for him.  John King ain't from longview, he can't relate culturally to most of his players.  But those kids want to play for him. I watched him make kids run sprints after a scrimmage fight this yr.  I guarantee no kids quit, and you know if he would do that after a game, he probably worse at practice.

 At one point coach was getting players, Im not saying there should be 200 players.  But 45-50 freshman, 40-45 JV, 45-50 Varsity should sounds reasonable to me.  At one point they had those type of numbers.  Thats a minimum of about 130 players. 

and by the way its more than just lack of talent. Players are quitting or not coming out at all.  The def coordinator should have been out yrs ago.  Many other things.  

[JTFAN99]

2 hours ago, 3rdcoastent said:

https://www.buzzsprout.com/1363513/episodes/6048895-lions-drop-game-to-mcnorth-with-bye-week-coming-here-is-what-should-improve-there-are-good-signs-plus-money-making-stories-and-more

It was Ratliff, Brooks, then Coach Rush.  Brooks really deserves credit for JT turning around.  It was night and day when Brooks got to JT. You could tell he was a good coach and Coach Rush was his Def. Coord.

[VonG]

44 minutes ago, JTFAN99 said:

nah Von.  Gilmer has 700 students total and they have more players in their program than Cujo. Than can field 2 freshman teams.

Longview like Cujo black population has dropped a ton.  Alot of blacks are going to Pine Tree now.  But they got more players than ever.  

Coach Holmes is from North Tyler. He is young. He should be able to relate to these kids. He went the school with alot of their parents. He knows the culture. He should be able to get kids to play for him.  John King ain't from longview, he can't relate culturally to most of his players.  But those kids want to play for him. I watched him make kids run sprints after a scrimmage fight this yr.  I guarantee no kids quit, and you know if he would do that after a game, he probably worse at practice.

 At one point coach was getting players, Im not saying there should be 200 players.  But 45-50 freshman, 40-45 JV, 45-50 Varsity should sounds reasonable to me.  At one point they had those type of numbers.  Thats a minimum of about 130 players. 

and by the way its more than just lack of talent. Players are quitting or not coming out at all.  The def coordinator should have been out yrs ago.  Many other things.  

Understandable. For a school with as much pride as JT and having over 2000 students. JT should not have a problem of having at least 150 kids in the program. That's not asking for a lot. If kids are quitting for mistreatment that's one thing. If kids are quitting because he is pushing them to be better. Then that is a major problem. How are you going to make it in the real world when things are definitely not going to go your way.

Longview still has a larger black population then JT. They also have a larger white population that enjoys playing football. JT doesn't have that luxury.

If JT black population is not going to grow. Then he needs to get more in touch with the Hispanic population. That's the only way his numbers are going to grow. We all know the white population is not going to grow at JT. 

[ANTI]

1 hour ago, VonG said:

Understandable. For a school with as much pride as JT and having over 2000 students. JT should not have a problem of having at least 150 kids in the program. That's not asking for a lot. If kids are quitting for mistreatment that's one thing. If kids are quitting because he is pushing them to be better. Then that is a major problem. How are you going to make it in the real world when things are definitely not going to go your way.

Longview still has a larger black population then JT. They also have a larger white population that enjoys playing football. JT doesn't have that luxury.

If JT black population is not going to grow. Then he needs to get more in touch with the Hispanic population. That's the only way his numbers are going to grow. We all know the white population is not going to grow at JT. 

How much of the black population at Legacy would you say geographically should be at JT/Tyler High?

With all the Tyler growth happening down South...I never understood why JTs lines dont dip more South (on the West side of town) to accomodate the population. 

I'm not saying it has to go all the way down to Grande lol but dang....at least Earl Campbell Pkwy. Kids off Glenwood really go to Legacy? Crazy.

[VonG]

54 minutes ago, ANTI said:

How much of the black population at Legacy would you say geographically should be at JT/Tyler High?

With all the Tyler growth happening down South...I never understood why JTs lines dont dip more South (on the West side of town) to accomodate the population. 

I'm not saying it has to go all the way down to Grande lol but dang....at least Earl Campbell Pkwy. Kids off Glenwood really go to Legacy? Crazy.

Don't know because I don't know where all the kids live. 

[JTFAN99]

1 hour ago, ANTI said:

How much of the black population at Legacy would you say geographically should be at JT/Tyler High?

With all the Tyler growth happening down South...I never understood why JTs lines dont dip more South (on the West side of town) to accomodate the population. 

I'm not saying it has to go all the way down to Grande lol but dang....at least Earl Campbell Pkwy. Kids off Glenwood really go to Legacy? Crazy.

Originally it was for integration reasons. The black neighborhoods in Tyler were and are the Northside and Westside. Lee took in about 65% of westside when schools integrated. But when they rezoned, it would have made sense for new lines to go to at least Earl Campbell Parkway for JT.  If you look the black populations are nearly the same now at both schools now.  But Legacy doesn't take in any of the East side which is mostly Hispanic.  Some would say there is an athletic reason for the zone decisions.  

since they rezone, they took out the old areas of north Tyler that were zoned for south tyler schools. so most are probably at the right school. 

[JTFAN99]

2 hours ago, VonG said:

Understandable. For a school with as much pride as JT and having over 2000 students. JT should not have a problem of having at least 150 kids in the program. That's not asking for a lot. If kids are quitting for mistreatment that's one thing. If kids are quitting because he is pushing them to be better. Then that is a major problem. How are you going to make it in the real world when things are definitely not going to go your way.

Longview still has a larger black population then JT. They also have a larger white population that enjoys playing football. JT doesn't have that luxury.

If JT black population is not going to grow. Then he needs to get more in touch with the Hispanic population. That's the only way his numbers are going to grow. We all know the white population is not going to grow at JT. 

Longview black population ain't that much larger than cujo. probably about 100 students. But they do have a much larger white poplation so I get your point.  

I get pushing the kids, but some of the other stuff is unreasonable. 

[cujo2016]

1 hour ago, ANTI said:

How much of the black population at Legacy would you say geographically should be at JT/Tyler High?

With all the Tyler growth happening down South...I never understood why JTs lines dont dip more South (on the West side of town) to accomodate the population. 

I'm not saying it has to go all the way down to Grande lol but dang....at least Earl Campbell Pkwy. Kids off Glenwood really go to Legacy? Crazy.

Yes, not only is it crazy, it is all planned out. I live in the Creek off spur 364, our kids have always went to Stewart/ThreeLakes/JT. From Fletcher Session, Jones, Lane, Bowser, on and on. From the last zoning, we are now zone to Legacy. 

[NODAYSOFFTX]

1 hour ago, ANTI said:

How much of the black population at Legacy would you say geographically should be at JT/Tyler High?

With all the Tyler growth happening down South...I never understood why JTs lines dont dip more South (on the West side of town) to accomodate the population. 

I'm not saying it has to go all the way down to Grande lol but dang....at least Earl Campbell Pkwy. Kids off Glenwood really go to Legacy? Crazy.

Rezoning took a lot of Tyler players