Jump to content

Week 6: Marshall (2-2) (0-1) Vs. Jacksonville (1-3) (1-0)


Mavchamp

Marshall Vs. Jacksonville  

26 members have voted

  1. 1. Who you got?

    • Jacksonville in a close one
      7
    • Marshall in a close one
      8
    • Jacksonville in a blowout
      0
    • Marshall in a blowout
      11


Recommended Posts

Mavchamp, gotta be honest. I just don’t understand the dirty play and cheap shots by Marshall. Marshall had two players ejected and should have been another one — # 92. The taunting is disgusting. #11 did it constantly. Great player but dang. Finally ejected him. Weak officiating crew didn’t stop it in first half and that’s why it got worse in second half. Is it just this group of kids? Last year, Marshall did none of that stuff so maybe it’s just this group (?)

 Look, Marshall beat Jax, they were the better team. But why is that allowed in Marshall? How is that acceptable? Just asking. Please don’t blast me and tell me our kids were doing it too. they were not, I am literally on the field hearing and seeing it all first hand and just shaking my head. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Matt said:

Mavchamp, gotta be honest. I just don’t understand the dirty play and cheap shots by Marshall. Marshall had two players ejected and should have been another one — # 92. The taunting is disgusting. #11 did it constantly. Great player but dang. Finally ejected him. Weak officiating crew didn’t stop it in first half and that’s why it got worse in second half. Is it just this group of kids? Last year, Marshall did none of that stuff so maybe it’s just this group (?)

 Look, Marshall beat Jax, they were the better team. But why is that allowed in Marshall? How is that acceptable? Just asking. Please don’t blast me and tell me our kids were doing it too. they were not, I am literally on the field hearing and seeing it all first hand and just shaking my head. 

I'll be honest......

I don't see the "posing" (your term) or flexing after a big score as an egregious act.  You took issue to it on the radio.... but I don't see it as a big deal.  It was a hard fought game for the better part of a half .... so pulling away was HUGE considering how poorly we played in the first half.  If the officials thought the celebrations were over the top.... I have NO doubt there would have been flags (Tomato Bowl says hello).

There is no excuse for taunting..... and it should be penalized.  

I agree with the officiating crew.... they were weak.  And they made some absolutely atrocious calls.  Most of them NOT in our favor.  I'll wait to see some replays to double down.... but I can name several: 

1.  Jax's second TD (a catch) was out of bounds.  And I don't think it was even close.  Fantastic catch... but out of bounds. 

2.  The punt that pinned Jax inside their own 5.... but they brought it out to the 30 because they said it hit a Marshall player.  It didn't.  The ball changed directions on a weird bounce.... not because it hit a Marshall player. 

3.  And I'm sure you'll disagree.... but the targeting hit was completely bogus.  It WAS a VICIOUS hit... YES.  But it wasn't illegal.  He hit him in the shoulder.... not the helmet.  Check the angle.... it was visible on the Marshall side.  I'll be watching our replay at some point to confirm.  I'm pretty sure that ejection will be challenged and replay will reverse the call.  It WAS a killer hit... but it wasn't dirty..... and it wasn't illegal.  I'm sure we will hear about it early this week on the appeal.  

4.  A couple of late hits on the sidelines that weren't called against Jax.  I can think of at least 2.   Guess that was OK.

Being dirty isn't coached.  It isn't taught.  And when you're losing by a wide margin, we all tend to wear our heart on our sleeve.  I've been guilty of it.  And TBH.... I think you are too.  

Your statement that Jacksonville wasn't being chippy ("they were not")  shows your bias.  Jacksonville SHOULD have had a player ejected for swinging at a Marshall player.  Only reason I guess he wasn't ejected was because he whiffed on the swing.  You even made a joke about it after it happened.  It's only dirty when the other team does it?

And yes.... Jax was mouthy after the big hit.  I wasn't on the sideline.... but I was close enough to hear it.  And THAT was why the Marshall players were pointing at the scoreboard, which you also found to be egregious.  They let the scoreboard do the talking.

It was a chippy game for both sides IMHO.  Just at different times.  We played poorly in the first half.  Some questionable officiating was frustrating.... and we were pretty chippy in the first half.  I thought Jacksonville was chippy in the second half after we pulled away and we shut their offense down... and especially after the big hit.

I hate that you feel the way you do.  I doubt I can change it.  But in the last 3-4 years.... you're the only person I've ever seen mention it.

Coach G has tremendous respect for the game.... his opponents.... kids will do stupid things on occasion.  They will pay the price for it via flag.

But to blanket say "dirty team" ...... I think that more reflects to your dislike for what the final scoreboard says than reality.  I don't recall you being upset when Jacksonville was whipping our tail.

I have tremendous respect for you.  But IMHO......you're wrong on this take.  But you have the right to feel that way.

Best of luck to Jville the rest of the way.  Ya'll can.... and should make some noise down the stretch.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I agree on the Rawls hit and ejection being bogus. I re-watched the replay over and over and he was clearly going full speed to the ball. He seemed kind of shocked by the collision himself. I think it was a hustle play attempting to haul in another Int. Even so, the hit wasn't targeting. He made contact with his shoulder and timed it perfectly. That's football, or at least it used to be. 

If it's not overturned, that will mean Marshall will play Texas High without their top two players(for a half). That's huuge for such a big game. If that happens,  I say play both on offense the entire 2nd half. We saw what Rawls can do with the ball in his hands on the pick 6.

If Burris keeps struggling, I say give Olvera a chance to start(if he's OK) . He keeps his composure and doesn't panic. Burris was playing that way during non district. Not sure what happened. Marshall will go as far as the o-line takes them. I liked the 2 back set with Dede and Dom. Can you imagine that with Rawls playing Qb? At least a couple series per game. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Back to the game:

It's hard to complain when you win by 21 points..... but this game shouldn't have been as close as it was.  The first half was UGLY.... basically a continuation of what we saw Vs. PT.  The problem is..... Jacksonville is nowhere as good as PT... which is why that was so frustrating.  The game should have been in hand by halftime.  But our mistakes, coupled with a determined Jacksonville team made it closer than it needed to be.  Granted... I was pleased to see us come out in the second half and play 1000X's better, particularly on defense.  

My thoughts before moving on to the next game:

1.  The first half was pretty atrocious.  Our offense was just NOT clicking.  O-line getting gobbled up.... not blocking.  The bad snaps.... I'll address that later.   Just.... not getting it done.  Our O-line is huge.  And they are getting beat by smaller guys.  Is it confusion? Laziness?  Scheme?  Jacksonville is not a defensive power team.... and they made us look silly in the first half.  We had 21 points at the half... but 7 of that was scored by the defense.  There is no way Jacksonville should be holding us to 14 points in a half. We played much better in the second half.... but we were still struggling with our pass blocking...

2.  The defense struggled in the first half too with the short passes.... still a few tackling issues.  BUT... their halftime adjustments were fantastic.  They came out on fire after the break..... outside of that one long play by the Indians.... we shut them down completely in the second half.  That was refreshing to see.  

3.  The officiating was pretty awful.  Like I mentioned in the above post.... I think they gifted Jax's second TD.... he was out of bounds.  The bad spot on the punt.... wowzers.  And I stand by my statement about the targeting foul.  I think that gets reversed this week.  It was a legal...but vicious hit.  Stay tuned.  But there were some weird spots with the ball in the game.....  and even the Jax radio guys were a little surprised on the off sides against Marshall that gave Jacksonville a redo on 4th down after they missed the FG (they still failed to score on the redo).

4.  Bad snaps.... this is a new problem.  This reared its head for the first this season last week Vs PT....  it happened on a punt last week and it gifted PT a touchdown.    I tried to keep count tonight once I saw it was going to be an issue again.  I think we had 10 bad snaps.... the QB just saved several of them.  But the others either lead to turnovers.... or a huge loss of yardage.  10..... it mighta been more (or less).  This has got to get fixed.

5.  Coming out flat..... we did it against PT.  Outside of that first score in early in the game.... the offense was ineffective the rest of the first half.  We were LUCKY to be down only 10-7 last week.  This week..... we were flat again.  Very well could have been down 21-14 at the half instead of up 21-14 had it not been for the defense playing lights out inside their own 5 yardline.

If we ever get these "little" things cleaned up... I think we can play (and beat) anyone. 

But as long as we continue this current trajectory..... we will keep teams lesser than us in the game for longer than we should..... and lose ugly against teams better than us

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 hours ago, Mavchamp said:

I'll be honest......

I don't see the "posing" (your term) or flexing after a big score as an egregious act.  You took issue to it on the radio.... but I don't see it as a big deal.  It was a hard fought game for the better part of a half .... so pulling away was HUGE considering how poorly we played in the first half.  If the officials thought the celebrations were over the top.... I have NO doubt there would have been flags (Tomato Bowl says hello).

There is no excuse for taunting..... and it should be penalized.  

I agree with the officiating crew.... they were weak.  And they made some absolutely atrocious calls.  Most of them NOT in our favor.  I'll wait to see some replays to double down.... but I can name several: 

1.  Jax's second TD (a catch) was out of bounds.  And I don't think it was even close.  Fantastic catch... but out of bounds. 

2.  The punt that pinned Jax inside their own 5.... but they brought it out to the 30 because they said it hit a Marshall player.  It didn't.  The ball changed directions on a weird bounce.... not because it hit a Marshall player. 

3.  And I'm sure you'll disagree.... but the targeting hit was completely bogus.  It WAS a VICIOUS hit... YES.  But it wasn't illegal.  He hit him in the shoulder.... not the helmet.  Check the angle.... it was visible on the Marshall side.  I'll be watching our replay at some point to confirm.  I'm pretty sure that ejection will be challenged and replay will reverse the call.  It WAS a killer hit... but it wasn't dirty..... and it wasn't illegal.  I'm sure we will hear about it early this week on the appeal.  

4.  A couple of late hits on the sidelines that weren't called against Jax.  I can think of at least 2.   Guess that was OK.

Being dirty isn't coached.  It isn't taught.  And when you're losing by a wide margin, we all tend to wear our heart on our sleeve.  I've been guilty of it.  And TBH.... I think you are too.  

Your statement that Jacksonville wasn't being chippy ("they were not")  shows your bias.  Jacksonville SHOULD have had a player ejected for swinging at a Marshall player.  Only reason I guess he wasn't ejected was because he whiffed on the swing.  You even made a joke about it after it happened.  It's only dirty when the other team does it?

And yes.... Jax was mouthy after the big hit.  I wasn't on the sideline.... but I was close enough to hear it.  And THAT was why the Marshall players were pointing at the scoreboard, which you also found to be egregious.  They let the scoreboard do the talking.

It was a chippy game for both sides IMHO.  Just at different times.  We played poorly in the first half.  Some questionable officiating was frustrating.... and we were pretty chippy in the first half.  I thought Jacksonville was chippy in the second half after we pulled away and we shut their offense down... and especially after the big hit.

I hate that you feel the way you do.  I doubt I can change it.  But in the last 3-4 years.... you're the only person I've ever seen mention it.

Coach G has tremendous respect for the game.... his opponents.... kids will do stupid things on occasion.  They will pay the price for it via flag.

But to blanket say "dirty team" ...... I think that more reflects to your dislike for what the final scoreboard says than reality.  I don't recall you being upset when Jacksonville was whipping our tail.

I have tremendous respect for you.  But IMHO......you're wrong on this take.  But you have the right to feel that way.

Best of luck to Jville the rest of the way.  Ya'll can.... and should make some noise down the stretch.  

Mavchamp, total respect for you. Truly. What's cool is we can disagree on things and still be civil -- unlike the rest of this world right now.

I don't see the "posing" (your term) or flexing after a big score as an egregious act.  You took issue to it on the radio.... but I don't see it as a big deal.  It was a hard fought game for the better part of a half .... so pulling away was HUGE considering how poorly we played in the first half.  If the officials thought the celebrations were over the top.... I have NO doubt there would have been flags (Tomato Bowl says hello). As a former college basketball official for 10 years, I DO see taunting as a big deal.  It wasn't after a big score what I saw. One example, A Marshall receiver makes a freakish run after a catch, gets tacked on our sidelines, gets up and spreads his arms at our players and coaches. Why do that? Just get up and go back to your huddle like you've done that before. THAT was 100% taunting. No call though, just ignored. That just raises the emotions on JAX kids so guess what? Now, they are going to do something to retaliate. And the cycle continues. I am not dismissing JAX behavior here. But why do that if you're one of the best players on the field like this receiver/athlete? Again, it was not ALL Marshall players, ok? VERY POOR officiating last night in that area. You have to nip that in the bud at the first of the game, the first time it happens, and set the tone. You don't start stopping it in the 3rd or 4th quarter. Emotions are too high at that point.

I agree with the officiating crew.... they were weak.  And they made some absolutely atrocious calls.  Most of them NOT in our favor.  I'll wait to see some replays to double down.... but I can name several: 

1.  Jax's second TD (a catch) was out of bounds.  And I don't think it was even close.  Fantastic catch... but out of bounds. I cannot say say. It was on the far side of the field and I will have to see the video.

2.  The punt that pinned Jax inside their own 5.... but they brought it out to the 30 because they said it hit a Marshall player.  It didn't.  The ball changed directions on a weird bounce.... not because it hit a Marshall player. I have no idea what happened there, I even said that on the broadcast. But remember, an official was injured so at that time, they had 4 officials. Makes a huge difference in field coverage.  

3.  And I'm sure you'll disagree.... but the targeting hit was completely bogus.  It WAS a VICIOUS hit... YES.  But it wasn't illegal.  He hit him in the shoulder.... not the helmet.  Check the angle.... it was visible on the Marshall side.  I'll be watching our replay at some point to confirm.  I'm pretty sure that ejection will be challenged and replay will reverse the call.  It WAS a killer hit... but it wasn't dirty..... and it wasn't illegal.  I'm sure we will hear about it early this week on the appeal. Nope, disagree. Just like Mathis, Jr. hit 3 years ago at Marshall (that wasn't called). Watch the video. I saw it. Led with his helmet, also a defenseless receiver (but that's just a PF, not ejection). JAX receiver head popped back and it wasn't from a shoulder tackle.

4.  A couple of late hits on the sidelines that weren't called against Jax.  I can think of at least 2.   Guess that was OK. I won't dispute those. Again, was it when they only had 4 officials, and not 5? Again, if you call those early and flag them, it stops.

Being dirty isn't coached.  It isn't taught.  And when you're losing by a wide margin, we all tend to wear our heart on our sleeve.  I've been guilty of it.  And TBH.... I think you are too. Disagree. If you have a player doing things illegal it is the coach's responsibility to stop it. Pull the player out and coach him. Thus, in a way, if you don;t correct it, then you are coaching it.

Your statement that Jacksonville wasn't being chippy ("they were not")  shows your bias.  Jacksonville SHOULD have had a player ejected for swinging at a Marshall player.  Only reason I guess he wasn't ejected was because he whiffed on the swing.  You even made a joke about it after it happened.  It's only dirty when the other team does it? I agree Jax player should have been ejected. We even said he should have been. He didn't whiff, either. He pulled his punch, I watched it after the game. Again, bad officiating. OK, so at the end of so many plays AFTER the whistle, I saw Marshall continue to push, shove, talk, etc... did you not see JVIlle players end up on the ground after the play was over? WAAAAY after the play was over . . . and the officials would just come in say, "OK, play is over . . . " When that happens after the 12th time and they don't do anything about it, then tempers are going to flare and Jax players will retaliate. That's why you saw so many offsetting penalties. Watch the end of the play on that one. Your OL shoved JAX #16 to the ground clearly after the whistle. It was like that all night. I literally saw your receiver/athlete kick one of JAX players on the ground after he was tackled. Why do that?  

And yes.... Jax was mouthy after the big hit.  I wasn't on the sideline.... but I was close enough to hear it.  And THAT was why the Marshall players were pointing at the scoreboard, which you also found to be egregious.  They let the scoreboard do the talking. When Andy Dalton got knocked out last week, NO Cowboys players came in to defend him. Even McCarthy said he was "disappointed" no one defended their teammate. The "mouthy" by JAX was just that. As far as letting the scoreboard do the talking, that is NOT what some of the Marshall players were doing. BTW, I am not talking about all Marshall players. It was just 4 or 5. I saw others never do anything but play. I saw # 43 (?) help our #5 up after he knocked him down. Nice. So why did Marshall's receiver/athlete get ejected? He finally did enough stuff the officials could not ignore any longer so they ejected him. That's their fault, should have started way sooner.

I hate that you feel the way you do.  I doubt I can change it.  But in the last 3-4 years.... you're the only person I've ever seen mention it. Disagree. Marshall at WH last year? I read all those posts. It isn't just me. Last year, Marshall came in here and I didn't see any of that stuff. Very clean game. So, I am not the only person who mentioned it. That's why I said it's a few players, not all Marshall's players. I'm not a detective, but I my deductive reasoning make me wonder why JAX never has any of these issues with anyone else. None, zero. We haven't had an unsportsmanlike conduct penalties this year -- until last night. Yes, we mouthed, yes #16 for JAX should have been ejected for even raising his fist like that. But that's what kids do -- they retaliate. Again, if you allow it, you're teaching it.  

But to blanket say "dirty team" ...... I think that more reflects to your dislike for what the final scoreboard says than reality.  I don't recall you being upset when Jacksonville was whipping our tail. This is why all of us should invoke the 24-hour rule on ourselves. Dirty is a terrible word and I was wrong for saying that. But Marshall does have some players doing things that are wrong and unsportsmanlike.  That is what I should have said. I wen to the freshman game at Tomato Bowl -- none of that stuff by any Marshall player. I heard the JV game was clean. I am NOT saying this is systemic in Marshall program. What I am saying is you have some players on THIS year's team who are going to cost you later when it counts.

BTW, #17 may be your guy at QB . . .sadly, looks like he may have a broken wrist the way he was holding it. Hope he's OK because he was impressive.

I have tremendous respect for you.  But IMHO......you're wrong on this take.  But you have the right to feel that way. I respect you as well and we don't have to agree. We both have our own pair of rose-colored glasses we're wearing. LOL! Good luck to Marshall, you guys definitely have talent to do some things in 2020.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Mavchamp, total respect for you. Truly. What's cool is we can disagree on things and still be civil -- unlike the rest of this world right now.

I don't see the "posing" (your term) or flexing after a big score as an egregious act.  You took issue to it on the radio.... but I don't see it as a big deal.  It was a hard fought game for the better part of a half .... so pulling away was HUGE considering how poorly we played in the first half.  If the officials thought the celebrations were over the top.... I have NO doubt there would have been flags (Tomato Bowl says hello). As a former college basketball official for 10 years, I DO see taunting as a big deal.  It wasn't after a big score what I saw. One example, A Marshall receiver makes a freakish run after a catch, gets tacked on our sidelines, gets up and spreads his arms at our players and coaches. Why do that? Just get up and go back to your huddle like you've done that before. THAT was 100% taunting. No call though, just ignored. That just raises the emotions on JAX kids so guess what? Now, they are going to do something to retaliate. And the cycle continues. I am not dismissing JAX behavior here. But why do that if you're one of the best players on the field like this receiver/athlete? Again, it was not ALL Marshall players, ok? VERY POOR officiating last night in that area. You have to nip that in the bud at the first of the game, the first time it happens, and set the tone. You don't start stopping it in the 3rd or 4th quarter. Emotions are too high at that point.

Like I originally said.... I think taunting should be flagged.  I just disagree that flexing or posing is taunting.  It was excitement.  We were REALLY struggling offensively in the first half last night.  So a big play (scoring or not) got a reaction.  Probably wouldn't have been an issue had it been in the middle of the field or on our sideline.  The fact that it was on your sideline is annoying.  I get that.  I DO.  I just don't think that's taunting.  It's excitement and emotion in what was otherwise a lackluster performance.

I agree with the officiating crew.... they were weak.  And they made some absolutely atrocious calls.  Most of them NOT in our favor.  I'll wait to see some replays to double down.... but I can name several: 

1.  Jax's second TD (a catch) was out of bounds.  And I don't think it was even close.  Fantastic catch... but out of bounds. I cannot say say. It was on the far side of the field and I will have to see the video.

I'm not 100%.  But I'm close to it......

2.  The punt that pinned Jax inside their own 5.... but they brought it out to the 30 because they said it hit a Marshall player.  It didn't.  The ball changed directions on a weird bounce.... not because it hit a Marshall player. I have no idea what happened there, I even said that on the broadcast. But remember, an official was injured so at that time, they had 4 officials. Makes a huge difference in field coverage.  

100% a bad call.  When those bad calls keep piling up against you in a game....it affects you.

3.  And I'm sure you'll disagree.... but the targeting hit was completely bogus.  It WAS a VICIOUS hit... YES.  But it wasn't illegal.  He hit him in the shoulder.... not the helmet.  Check the angle.... it was visible on the Marshall side.  I'll be watching our replay at some point to confirm.  I'm pretty sure that ejection will be challenged and replay will reverse the call.  It WAS a killer hit... but it wasn't dirty..... and it wasn't illegal.  I'm sure we will hear about it early this week on the appeal. Nope, disagree. Just like Mathis hit 3 years ago at Marshall (that wasn't called). Watch the video. I saw it. Led with his helmet.

Nope.  Disagree.  Watch the Marshall radio replay.  He hit him in the shoulder.  It was a clean hit.  A hard, vicious hit.  But not illegal... and definitely not targeting.  

4.  A couple of late hits on the sidelines that weren't called against Jax.  I can think of at least 2.   Guess that was OK. I won't dispute those. Again, was it when they only had 4 officials, and not 5? Again, if you call those early and flag them, it stops.

Being dirty isn't coached.  It isn't taught.  And when you're losing by a wide margin, we all tend to wear our heart on our sleeve.  I've been guilty of it.  And TBH.... I think you are too. Disagree. If you have a player doing things illegal it is the coach's responsibility to stop it. Pull the player out and coach him. Thus, in a way, if you don;t correct it, then you are coaching it.

I'm not saying being dirty CAN'T be coached or taught.  I'm saying it's NOT being coached or taught.  Anyone that knows Coach G... and this staff knows that.

Your statement that Jacksonville wasn't being chippy ("they were not")  shows your bias.  Jacksonville SHOULD have had a player ejected for swinging at a Marshall player.  Only reason I guess he wasn't ejected was because he whiffed on the swing.  You even made a joke about it after it happened.  It's only dirty when the other team does it? I agree Jax player should have been ejected. We even said he should have been. He didn't whiff, either. He pulled his punch, I watched it after the game. Again, bad officiating. OK, so at the end of the play AFTER the whistle, I saw Marshall continue to push, shove, talk, etc... NOT the JVille players. The Jax players made the mistake of retaliating. That's why you saw so many offsetting penalties. Watch the end of the play on that one. Your OL shoved JAX #16 to the ground clearly after the whistle. It was like that all night. I saw #11 literally kick one of our players on the ground after he was tackled. I'm sure JVille retaliated. 

I thought both teams were chippy.  There was an offsetting penalty early in the game too.  Jacksonville came out and punched us in the mouth....  had some swagger.  We got chippy.  Second half.... I felt like Jax got chippy as the game slipped away from them.  Both teams had some talking, shoving, and extracurricular activities over the course of the game.  I don't like it... but it happens in heated games.  And yes... I blame that on the refs too.  But BOTH teams were guilty of it IMHO. 

And yes.... Jax was mouthy after the big hit.  I wasn't on the sideline.... but I was close enough to hear it.  And THAT was why the Marshall players were pointing at the scoreboard, which you also found to be egregious.  They let the scoreboard do the talking. When Andy Dalton got knocked out last week, NO Cowboys players came in to defend him. Even McCarthy said he was "disappointed" no one defended their teammate. The "mouthy" by JAX was just that. As far as letting the scoreboard do the talking, that is NOT what some of the Marshall players were doing. BTW, I am not talking about all Marshall players. It was just 4 or 5. I saw others never do anything but play. I saw # 43 (?) help our #5 up after he knocked him down. Nice. So why did Marshall's receiver/athlete get ejected? He finally did enough stuff the officials could not ignore any longer so they ejected him. That's their fault, should have started way sooner.

I had no problem with his ejection.  I had a problem with the targeting ejection.  I just don't believe it was targeting. I've seen the replay several time now from the opposite side of the field.  Not targeting.  But the other ejection..... he got what he deserved.  Each team should have had 1 ejected.  

I hate that you feel the way you do.  I doubt I can change it.  But in the last 3-4 years.... you're the only person I've ever seen mention it. Disagree. Marshall at WH last year? I read all those posts. It isn't just me. Last year, Marshall came in here and I didn't see any of that stuff. Very clean game. So, I am not the only person who mentioned it. That's why I said it's a few players, not all Marshall's players. I'm not a detective, but I my deductive reasoning make me wonder wonder why JAX never has any of these issues with anyone else. None, zero. We haven't had an unsportsmanlike conduct penalties this year -- until last night. Yes, we mouthed, yes #16 for JAX should have been ejected for even raising his fist like that. But that's what kids do -- they retaliate. Again, if you allow it, you're teaching it.  

You're getting your facts on the WH game last season confused.  Whitehouse was the one that had 3-4 players ejected in that game, not Marshall.  We had no players ejected in that game.  WH was enormously unsportsmanlike.... which is what lead to that loooooong thread that had fans from Marshall, MP, PT, and Nac, etc all saying they experienced the same thing when they played WH.

But to blanket say "dirty team" ...... I think that more reflects to your dislike for what the final scoreboard says than reality.  I don't recall you being upset when Jacksonville was whipping our tail. This is why all of us should invoke the 24-hour rule on ourselves. Dirty is a terrible word and I was wrong for saying that. But Marshall does have some players doing things that are wrong and unsportsmanlike.  That is what I should have said. I wen to t the freshman game at Tomato Bowl. I heard JV was clean. I am NOT saying this is systemic in Marshall program. What I am saying is you have some players on THIS year's team who are going to cost you later when it counts.

We've got lots of issues to clean up to get our act together.  I could start a thread on it.

BTW, #17 may be your guy at QB . . .sadly, looks like he may have a broken wrist the way he was holding it. Hope he's OK because he was impressive.

Olvera is our QB2.  He had surgery this morning.  Guess we will have to wait till next season to see him again.  I was impressed with the shiftiness of QB3.  But our current freshman QB (Collier) looks to be special.  He may be our guy starting next season.  We shall see.

I have tremendous respect for you.  But IMHO......you're wrong on this take.  But you have the right to feel that way. I respect you as well and we don't have to agree. We both have our own pair of rose-colored glasses we're wearing. LOL! Good luck to Marshall, you guys definitely have talent to do some things in 2020.

Agreeing to disagree use to be common.  But I sure hate blanket statements.  That's the only reason I responded.  Best of luck to J-ville the rest of the way.  I hope ya'll can pull off an upset for us.  Don't even care who.... PT... THS....WH.... makes no difference to me!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 minutes ago, Mavchamp said:

Mavchamp, total respect for you. Truly. What's cool is we can disagree on things and still be civil -- unlike the rest of this world right now.

I don't see the "posing" (your term) or flexing after a big score as an egregious act.  You took issue to it on the radio.... but I don't see it as a big deal.  It was a hard fought game for the better part of a half .... so pulling away was HUGE considering how poorly we played in the first half.  If the officials thought the celebrations were over the top.... I have NO doubt there would have been flags (Tomato Bowl says hello). As a former college basketball official for 10 years, I DO see taunting as a big deal.  It wasn't after a big score what I saw. One example, A Marshall receiver makes a freakish run after a catch, gets tacked on our sidelines, gets up and spreads his arms at our players and coaches. Why do that? Just get up and go back to your huddle like you've done that before. THAT was 100% taunting. No call though, just ignored. That just raises the emotions on JAX kids so guess what? Now, they are going to do something to retaliate. And the cycle continues. I am not dismissing JAX behavior here. But why do that if you're one of the best players on the field like this receiver/athlete? Again, it was not ALL Marshall players, ok? VERY POOR officiating last night in that area. You have to nip that in the bud at the first of the game, the first time it happens, and set the tone. You don't start stopping it in the 3rd or 4th quarter. Emotions are too high at that point.

Like I originally said.... I think taunting should be flagged.  I just disagree that flexing or posing is taunting.  It was excitement.  We were REALLY struggling offensively in the first half last night.  So a big play (scoring or not) got a reaction.  Probably wouldn't have been an issue had it been in the middle of the field or on our sideline.  The fact that it was on your sideline is annoying.  I get that.  I DO.  I just don't think that's taunting.  It's excitement and emotion in what was otherwise a lackluster performance.

I agree with the officiating crew.... they were weak.  And they made some absolutely atrocious calls.  Most of them NOT in our favor.  I'll wait to see some replays to double down.... but I can name several: 

1.  Jax's second TD (a catch) was out of bounds.  And I don't think it was even close.  Fantastic catch... but out of bounds. I cannot say say. It was on the far side of the field and I will have to see the video.

I'm not 100%.  But I'm close to it......

2.  The punt that pinned Jax inside their own 5.... but they brought it out to the 30 because they said it hit a Marshall player.  It didn't.  The ball changed directions on a weird bounce.... not because it hit a Marshall player. I have no idea what happened there, I even said that on the broadcast. But remember, an official was injured so at that time, they had 4 officials. Makes a huge difference in field coverage.  

100% a bad call.  When those bad calls keep piling up against you in a game....it affects you.

3.  And I'm sure you'll disagree.... but the targeting hit was completely bogus.  It WAS a VICIOUS hit... YES.  But it wasn't illegal.  He hit him in the shoulder.... not the helmet.  Check the angle.... it was visible on the Marshall side.  I'll be watching our replay at some point to confirm.  I'm pretty sure that ejection will be challenged and replay will reverse the call.  It WAS a killer hit... but it wasn't dirty..... and it wasn't illegal.  I'm sure we will hear about it early this week on the appeal. Nope, disagree. Just like Mathis hit 3 years ago at Marshall (that wasn't called). Watch the video. I saw it. Led with his helmet.

Nope.  Disagree.  Watch the Marshall radio replay.  He hit him in the shoulder.  It was a clean hit.  A hard, vicious hit.  But not illegal... and definitely not targeting.  

4.  A couple of late hits on the sidelines that weren't called against Jax.  I can think of at least 2.   Guess that was OK. I won't dispute those. Again, was it when they only had 4 officials, and not 5? Again, if you call those early and flag them, it stops.

Being dirty isn't coached.  It isn't taught.  And when you're losing by a wide margin, we all tend to wear our heart on our sleeve.  I've been guilty of it.  And TBH.... I think you are too. Disagree. If you have a player doing things illegal it is the coach's responsibility to stop it. Pull the player out and coach him. Thus, in a way, if you don;t correct it, then you are coaching it.

I'm not saying being dirty CAN'T be coached or taught.  I'm saying it's NOT being coached or taught.  Anyone that knows Coach G... and this staff knows that.

Your statement that Jacksonville wasn't being chippy ("they were not")  shows your bias.  Jacksonville SHOULD have had a player ejected for swinging at a Marshall player.  Only reason I guess he wasn't ejected was because he whiffed on the swing.  You even made a joke about it after it happened.  It's only dirty when the other team does it? I agree Jax player should have been ejected. We even said he should have been. He didn't whiff, either. He pulled his punch, I watched it after the game. Again, bad officiating. OK, so at the end of the play AFTER the whistle, I saw Marshall continue to push, shove, talk, etc... NOT the JVille players. The Jax players made the mistake of retaliating. That's why you saw so many offsetting penalties. Watch the end of the play on that one. Your OL shoved JAX #16 to the ground clearly after the whistle. It was like that all night. I saw #11 literally kick one of our players on the ground after he was tackled. I'm sure JVille retaliated. 

I thought both teams were chippy.  There was an offsetting penalty early in the game too.  Jacksonville came out and punched us in the mouth....  had some swagger.  We got chippy.  Second half.... I felt like Jax got chippy as the game slipped away from them.  Both teams had some talking, shoving, and extracurricular activities over the course of the game.  I don't like it... but it happens in heated games.  And yes... I blame that on the refs too.  But BOTH teams were guilty of it IMHO. 

And yes.... Jax was mouthy after the big hit.  I wasn't on the sideline.... but I was close enough to hear it.  And THAT was why the Marshall players were pointing at the scoreboard, which you also found to be egregious.  They let the scoreboard do the talking. When Andy Dalton got knocked out last week, NO Cowboys players came in to defend him. Even McCarthy said he was "disappointed" no one defended their teammate. The "mouthy" by JAX was just that. As far as letting the scoreboard do the talking, that is NOT what some of the Marshall players were doing. BTW, I am not talking about all Marshall players. It was just 4 or 5. I saw others never do anything but play. I saw # 43 (?) help our #5 up after he knocked him down. Nice. So why did Marshall's receiver/athlete get ejected? He finally did enough stuff the officials could not ignore any longer so they ejected him. That's their fault, should have started way sooner.

I had no problem with his ejection.  I had a problem with the targeting ejection.  I just don't believe it was targeting. I've seen the replay several time now from the opposite side of the field.  Not targeting.  But the other ejection..... he got what he deserved.  Each team should have had 1 ejected.  

I hate that you feel the way you do.  I doubt I can change it.  But in the last 3-4 years.... you're the only person I've ever seen mention it. Disagree. Marshall at WH last year? I read all those posts. It isn't just me. Last year, Marshall came in here and I didn't see any of that stuff. Very clean game. So, I am not the only person who mentioned it. That's why I said it's a few players, not all Marshall's players. I'm not a detective, but I my deductive reasoning make me wonder wonder why JAX never has any of these issues with anyone else. None, zero. We haven't had an unsportsmanlike conduct penalties this year -- until last night. Yes, we mouthed, yes #16 for JAX should have been ejected for even raising his fist like that. But that's what kids do -- they retaliate. Again, if you allow it, you're teaching it.  

You're getting your facts on the WH game last season confused.  Whitehouse was the one that had 3-4 players ejected in that game, not Marshall.  We had no players ejected in that game.  WH was enormously unsportsmanlike.... which is what lead to that loooooong thread that had fans from Marshall, MP, PT, and Nac, etc all saying they experienced the same thing when they played WH.

But to blanket say "dirty team" ...... I think that more reflects to your dislike for what the final scoreboard says than reality.  I don't recall you being upset when Jacksonville was whipping our tail. This is why all of us should invoke the 24-hour rule on ourselves. Dirty is a terrible word and I was wrong for saying that. But Marshall does have some players doing things that are wrong and unsportsmanlike.  That is what I should have said. I wen to t the freshman game at Tomato Bowl. I heard JV was clean. I am NOT saying this is systemic in Marshall program. What I am saying is you have some players on THIS year's team who are going to cost you later when it counts.

We've got lots of issues to clean up to get our act together.  I could start a thread on it.

BTW, #17 may be your guy at QB . . .sadly, looks like he may have a broken wrist the way he was holding it. Hope he's OK because he was impressive.

Olvera is our QB2.  He had surgery this morning.  Guess we will have to wait till next season to see him again.  I was impressed with the shiftiness of QB3.  But our current freshman QB (Collier) looks to be special.  He may be our guy starting next season.  We shall see.

I have tremendous respect for you.  But IMHO......you're wrong on this take.  But you have the right to feel that way. I respect you as well and we don't have to agree. We both have our own pair of rose-colored glasses we're wearing. LOL! Good luck to Marshall, you guys definitely have talent to do some things in 2020.

Agreeing to disagree use to be common.  But I sure hate blanket statements.  That's the only reason I responded.  Best of luck to J-ville the rest of the way.  I hope ya'll can pull off an upset for us.  Don't even care who.... PT... THS....WH.... makes no difference to me!

Good stuff, Mavchamp. We're all good here. Just a chippy game so we will leave it that. Sorry about the WH reference  . . . my memory is bad. I just remember seeing all the posts from everyone on that game so maybe they were being the "Matt" that situation, I don't know.  Hate that about Olvera! Dang. your 9th grade QB is pretty good. Moxie. Man, he's got a chasis, lower body strength. I did a double take looking at him. Looks like he squats a lot (!) Physical. It's be fun watching him match up with Ryan McCown soon. Good luck the rest of the year . . . we are getting better, hope we can pull some games off and play two halves like we played the first half last night.

  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Cat51993 said:

Marshall has the best looking athletes ive seen in a while. Why does their team struggle to be good? 

Do you mean this season or overall?  

We’re (36-6) in district play since 2014.  Two region semifinals and four district titles in that time period. That’s not exactly slouchy. 

About this season.....

In our defense... our two losses are to two teams that are a combined 9-0-1. 

But to answer your question....

IMHO.... offensive line laziness at times.  I can’t blame our defense on either loss.  Our offense was so putrid in those games it betrayed the defense time and time again. 

Defense kept us close to PT for as long as humanly possible.  But after while that pitiful offense was going to cost the defense. 

Hate to say it. But IMHO it’s laziness. Not lack of athleticism.  

Longview is another animal. I think our score Vs the Lobos would look pretty similar to anyone else in 9-5A.  JMHO.

We are staring (7-3) in the face.  (6-4) if we play poorly Vs WH. 

Im hoping we figure this out.  We have tons of potential.  Haven’t tapped it yet. 
 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Mavchamp said:

Do you mean this season or overall?  

We’re (36-6) in district play since 2014.  Two region semifinals and four district titles in that time period. That’s not exactly slouchy. 

About this season.....

In our defense... our two losses are to two teams that are a combined 9-0-1. 

But to answer your question....

IMHO.... offensive line laziness at times.  I can’t blame our defense on either loss.  Our offense was so putrid in those games it betrayed the defense time and time again. 

Defense kept us close to PT for as long as humanly possible.  But after while that pitiful offense was going to cost the defense. 

Hate to say it. But IMHO it’s laziness. Not lack of athleticism.  

Longview is another animal. I think our score Vs the Lobos would look pretty similar to anyone else in 9-5A.  JMHO.

We are staring (7-3) in the face.  (6-4) if we play poorly Vs WH. 

Im hoping we figure this out.  We have tons of potential.  Haven’t tapped it yet. 
 

I'm taking about state looking athletes.  I have a ton of friends who played for dennis Parker. Yall have the players just not very consistent. I watched all your 90 games even the ice road drive home from Houston.  Your athletes are elite just lack dominating like Carthage. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

48 minutes ago, Cat51993 said:

I'm taking about state looking athletes.  I have a ton of friends who played for dennis Parker. Yall have the players just not very consistent. I watched all your 90 games even the ice road drive home from Houston.  Your athletes are elite just lack dominating like Carthage. 

We all know what (Who) the bedrock of Carthage’s success it. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

21 hours ago, Cat51993 said:

Your athletes are as good as Carthage.  ???? Lack something 

Coaching turnover. We've had some credible coaches, but 3 new coaching staffs in the last 4 years(2016-2020)will not allow for much program consistency. Athletes have helped to overcome it on a local level.

If Greidl AND his staff can stick around for 4 years, I think we will start to see us progress to the next level. Texas Highs AD started the same time Mathis started in Marshall. They are now in year 4 of building something, while we started anew last season. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There is only one thing I love more than a homer radio broadcaster...and that is a homer radio broadcaster who thinks that because they are "essentially on the field" (which they are of course, NOT) that they can hear and see everything that is said and happens on the actual field...not to mention, they think because they think they know the rules, well, they really don't...

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...