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Tyler High vs Highland Park


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14 hours ago, LionHated said:

Obviously, the lack of growth on “Da Nawf” and West sides of the city are the main culprits to what JT is going thru right now. A lack of decent paying unskilled labor jobs forces certain age groups and demographics to move out of Tyler. It’s a transplant medical and retirement town. We should be seeing legacy type names on the rosters of both Tyler programs by now. My personal prediction is that 3-8 football seasons will become more of the norm for this program. High school football is simple. You either out scheme (ala HP), and let’s not kid our selves, this staff isn’t out scheming anybody ever. Or you out “athlete” teams (Duncanville) which JT can’t seem to do anymore. When scheme meets talent, you get state titles. Any one of us could win 10 plus games with the Qb talent JT had in years past. HS programs don’t have runs at the QB position like that. It’s almost unheard of. Should’ve won big when you had the horses. The coach has become bigger than the program. Ego? Possibly. He’ll never win big by running off players though. He should be able to be consistently successful year in and year out. He should definitely be able to suit up a freshman squad. 

I agree with about 95% of this.  But I can't blame lack of growth as an issue.  If you look, Tyler has by far had the most growth out of any city in East Texas.  Granted, all of it has been in Legacy/Lee zone. But despite all that growth, the Red Raiders haven't done anything in football recently, other than beating Cujo half the time and an down Lufkin team this yr. 

Longview is growing, but not like Tyler and their program remains in good shape. Heck, even Pine Tree is decent now.  Like Tyler, there has been demographic changes in Longview too, but they still get kids out for football.  Tyler has a great little league system, and the middle schools have been decent in football. Just last yr, you could say Boulter and Moore were on par with the Longview Middle Schools, but somehow Longview 9th grade just beat Highland Park by 50+ points, and it could have been worse. BUT...Cujo can't field a freshman team.    Something is wrong with this picture.    

How can a middle age coach from Louisiana get the kids from the South and East Side of Longview wanting to run through brick walls for him, but a young coach from North Tyler who went to school with alot of the parents and can easily relate more to the kids at the school, can't get kids to play for him despite having recent success?    I just saw John King make kids run a ton of sprints after a fight in a scrimmage this yr.  I guarantee not one kid quit the team after that.  I don't know what it is but you got to look at the top. 

You are right, Cujo had a string of QBs, that most public school programs will hardly ever see.   One issue is that Cujo scheme relies on having a good qb.  But Longview runs a system that doesn't. The run the ball, eat clock, and play physical. I saw them go 4 rounds deep a few yrs ago with a very avg qb. And they could have beat Lake Ridge that day.  

Something needs to change soon because the program is in bad shape. 

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Fire the whole coaching staff, fire the o line coach cause he trash, fire offensive coordinators, trash, defensive coordinators and coaches can stay cause they were put in bad positions all year by th

Sounds like its gonna take a lot to fix the issues at TH. If you're Legacy...you're a coach away. A hard nosed defensive minded coach like Owens that'll cement a winning culture....not these spre

5 starters on Tyler high’s team played in that 2018 game against highland park, this game would be personal for me if I were them. It should be for Holmes to. No matter a blowout loss or win those pla

13 hours ago, LionHated said:

In that case, money well spent then. Kinda like refacing high schools...smh Tyler. The boys basketball program went thru a similar type situation in the 90’s. Won, but never won big due to the coaches ego. The talent was there. Yearly, you can win enough games to justify not being fired off the talent pool alone at JT. Do we not want to compete for state titles? People in this very thread actually think playing HP within 50 points would be some kind of moral victory, not to mention an unlikelihood. I mean, Tyler/Sherman is a toss up game!! Really? Think about that. Oh how the mighty have fallen. 

Crazy ain't it.   I could name a few things I believe is the problem, but ultimately whatever issues exist, it falls to the top.  So the Head Coach needs to turn things around.  

I will say this, it makes you wonder how the biggest city in East Texas can't attract top notch coaches.  Traylor was at Gilmer, Surratt at Carthage., and etc.  

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15 hours ago, LionHated said:

Obviously, the lack of growth on “Da Nawf” and West sides of the city are the main culprits to what JT is going thru right now. A lack of decent paying unskilled labor jobs forces certain age groups and demographics to move out of Tyler. It’s a transplant medical and retirement town. We should be seeing legacy type names on the rosters of both Tyler programs by now. My personal prediction is that 3-8 football seasons will become more of the norm for this program. High school football is simple. You either out scheme (ala HP), and let’s not kid our selves, this staff isn’t out scheming anybody ever. Or you out “athlete” teams (Duncanville) which JT can’t seem to do anymore. When scheme meets talent, you get state titles. Any one of us could win 10 plus games with the Qb talent JT had in years past. HS programs don’t have runs at the QB position like that. It’s almost unheard of. Should’ve won big when you had the horses. The coach has become bigger than the program. Ego? Possibly. He’ll never win big by running off players though. He should be able to be consistently successful year in and year out. He should definitely be able to suit up a freshman squad. 

The industrial age is over with. People have to switch to the information age. Technology and medical field is here to stay. If people don't want to do that. They have to learn a trade. We need electricians, plumber's, and carpenters. We will always need truck drivers. There are plenty of good paying jobs if people are willing to go out and find it. They have to be willing to learn something new. 

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58 minutes ago, JTFAN99 said:

Crazy ain't it.   I could name a few things I believe is the problem, but ultimately whatever issues exist, it falls to the top.  So the Head Coach needs to turn things around.  

I will say this, it makes you wonder how the biggest city in East Texas can't attract top notch coaches.  Traylor was at Gilmer, Surratt at Carthage., and etc.  

we need a coach that will actually try to win games instead being a cry baby when he doesn’t get his way and takes it out on the player or team. 

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1 hour ago, JTFAN99 said:

I agree with about 95% of this.  But I can't blame lack of growth as an issue.  If you look, Tyler has by far had the most growth out of any city in East Texas.  Granted, all of it has been in Legacy/Lee zone. But despite all that growth, the Red Raiders haven't done anything in football recently, other than beating Cujo half the time and an down Lufkin team this yr. 

Longview is growing, but not like Tyler and their program remains in good shape. Heck, even Pine Tree is decent now.  Like Tyler, there has been demographic changes in Longview too, but they still get kids out for football.  Tyler has a great little league system, and the middle schools have been decent in football. Just last yr, you could say Boulter and Moore were on par with the Longview Middle Schools, but somehow Longview 9th grade just beat Highland Park by 50+ points, and it could have been worse. BUT...Cujo can't field a freshman team.    Something is wrong with this picture.    

How can a middle age coach from Louisiana get the kids from the South and East Side of Longview wanting to run through brick walls for him, but a young coach from North Tyler who went to school with alot of the parents and can easily relate more to the kids at the school, can't get kids to play for him despite having recent success?    I just saw John King make kids run a ton of sprints after a fight in a scrimmage this yr.  I guarantee not one kid quit the team after that.  I don't know what it is but you got to look at the top. 

You are right, Cujo had a string of QBs, that most public school programs will hardly ever see.   One issue is that Cujo scheme relies on having a good qb.  But Longview runs a system that doesn't. The run the ball, eat clock, and play physical. I saw them go 4 rounds deep a few yrs ago with a very avg qb. And they could have beat Lake Ridge that day.  

Something needs to change soon because the program is in bad shape. 

I been telling folks this. All the growth in South Tyler has not helped Lee. 

We have to many schools eating off a small city.

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30 minutes ago, NODAYSOFFTX said:

we need a coach that will actually try to win games instead being a cry baby when he doesn’t get his way and takes it out on the player or team. 

Honestly, the current coach has earned the right to get time to turn this around, but time is winding down. He has an excuse for this yr with this young team...but next yr they will be juniors and seniors...so no excuse.  Also, with no freshman team this yr, there probably won't be good numbers next yr either. Probably won't be able to field a JV unless kids come back to program. 

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16 minutes ago, JTFAN99 said:

Honestly, the current coach has earned the right to get time to turn this around, but time is winding down. He has an excuse for this yr with this young team...but next yr they will be juniors and seniors...so no excuse.  Also, with no freshman team this yr, there probably won't be good numbers next yr either. Probably won't be able to field a JV unless kids come back to program. 

I dont give the excuse because its programs smaller than us that field a freshman hell some them have a A and B team smh its no excuse and its an embarrassment for a program with alot of success. When you have multiple people or kids leaving a program for mostly all the same reason its not the players at that point its the coaches. It will always be coach fault because it your team you are responsible for the downfall or the rising up of a program. He wants to take all the credit for when the program was high up when he took over from 2012- till 2018. Its his responsibility for why the program is sorry cause its his team. 

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45 minutes ago, VonG said:

I been telling folks this. All the growth in South Tyler has not helped Lee. 

We have to many schools eating off a small city.

I don't know if that is the issue.  There has been enough growth in the zone for Legacy to be a better program.  I just think they haven't had a coach up to Owens level.  But new coach. lets see how he does. 

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1 minute ago, NODAYSOFFTX said:

I dont give the excuse because its programs smaller than us that field a freshman hell some them have a A and B team smh its no excuse and its an embarrassment for a program with alot of success. When you have multiple people or kids leaving a program for mostly all the same reason its not the players at that point its the coaches. It will always be coach fault because it your team you are responsible for the downfall or the rising up of a program. He wants to take all the credit for when the program was high up when he took over from 2012- till 2018. Its his responsibility for why the program is sorry cause its his team. 

I agree...I'm just saying, he has won enough games recently to not be fired, although you can clearly see the program is falling apart.  Honestly, nobody cares what the subvarsity levels do as long as the varsity is doing well.  And with all the players coming back next yr, they should be at least a 7 or 8 win team with a couple playoff wins.   There probably won't be a JV team, but hey....varsity should be decent...lol.  

Now if next yr the team is bad, you have to really consider other options. 

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8 minutes ago, JTFAN99 said:

I agree...I'm just saying, he has won enough games recently to not be fired, although you can clearly see the program is falling apart.  Honestly, nobody cares what the subvarsity levels do as long as the varsity is doing well.  And with all the players coming back next yr, they should be at least a 7 or 8 win team with a couple playoff wins.   There probably won't be a JV team, but hey....varsity should be decent...lol.  

Now if next yr the team is bad, you have to really consider other options. 

Yea next year  there are ZERO EXCUSES. But starting to be better this year would HELP. 

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1 hour ago, NODAYSOFFTX said:

First and fourth place are the best spots to be in right now if you are in our district. Third place would second round bout with Ryan and second would have a third round bout with Ryan yikes! 

Whoever gets fourth place in our district is getting dominated by Magnolia in round 1 regardless of who it is.

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1 hour ago, LoboFan07 said:

Whoever gets fourth place in our district is getting dominated by Magnolia in round 1 regardless of who it is.

Magnolia is 7-1.  Lost to Katy Tompkins 24-21, 1st game of the year, after being down 24-0 at half. Beat College Station 27 - 16,  after being down 16- 7 at half.  Beat Lufkin 26-24, after they were down 17-7 at half. They are a little bit like Longview, they like to pound the rock and they have a shifty little QB who play fakes about as well as anyone I've ever seen.

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2 hours ago, JTFAN99 said:

I agree...I'm just saying, he has won enough games recently to not be fired, although you can clearly see the program is falling apart.  Honestly, nobody cares what the subvarsity levels do as long as the varsity is doing well.  And with all the players coming back next yr, they should be at least a 7 or 8 win team with a couple playoff wins.   There probably won't be a JV team, but hey....varsity should be decent...lol.  

Now if next yr the team is bad, you have to really consider other options. 

Not saying this post was directed at anyone in particular but you know Holmes made this post for a reason. Sounds like several CUJO players are trying to transfer.

I agree on the adversity/transfer thing but transfers can also be situational. If I'm Cam Ford...being benched for Sanchez for whatever reason...I would've gotten the hell out of there too lol

Longview has 3 promising QBs for the future. The 2 sophomores on varsity (Jordan Allen and Landyn Grant) and the Freshmen QB Andrew Tutt. I wouldnt totally expect it from Tutt since he'd at least have his SR year to himself but I would totally understand if one of Allen/Grant wanted to transfer due to losing out on the starting job.

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2 minutes ago, ANTI said:

Not saying this post was directed at anyone in particular but you know Holmes made this post for a reason. Sounds like several CUJO players are trying to transfer.

I agree on the adversity/transfer thing but transfers can also be situational. If I'm Cam Ford...being benched for Sanchez for whatever reason...I would've gotten the hell out of there too lol

Longview has 3 promising QBs for the future. The 2 sophomores on varsity (Jordan Allen and Landyn Grant) and the Freshmen QB Andrew Tutt. I wouldnt totally expect it from Tutt since he'd at least have his SR year to himself but I would totally understand if one of Allen/Grant wanted to transfer due to losing out on the starting job.

I agree do you understand how disrespectful it is to lose your spot to a guy like Sanchez! Lol 🤦🏽‍♂️. smh can’t blame the man for leaving. 

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1 hour ago, ANTI said:

Not saying this post was directed at anyone in particular but you know Holmes made this post for a reason. Sounds like several CUJO players are trying to transfer.

I agree on the adversity/transfer thing but transfers can also be situational. If I'm Cam Ford...being benched for Sanchez for whatever reason...I would've gotten the hell out of there too lol

Longview has 3 promising QBs for the future. The 2 sophomores on varsity (Jordan Allen and Landyn Grant) and the Freshmen QB Andrew Tutt. I wouldnt totally expect it from Tutt since he'd at least have his SR year to himself but I would totally understand if one of Allen/Grant wanted to transfer due to losing out on the starting job.

The Ford thing from what I was told was more of about ego and disrespect to the kid.  I think after that, Ford really had no choice but to leave. 3rdCoastent knows the details of what happened. I know a little but I will just leave that off the forum. 

As far as the transferring thing goes...I too understand if a kid wants to leave for playing time.  But Holmes runs things a little different than most coaches. Most coaches usually place all the seniors and at least 85% of juniors on varsity, then grab the best 4 or 5 soph and maybe a stud freshman.  Not coach, he puts the best players (who aren't seniors) on varsity despite grade.  This results in alot of juniors on JV. This makes alot of kids want to quit or transfer because they got passed up by freshman an sophmores. 

Like this yr, there 4 fresh and 14 soph on varsity and like 13 juniors.   You spent last 2-3 yrs getting up at 4am only to get passed up by a fresh.  Personally I think the players should stay, but I can understand why the kid and their parents would get upset and want to leave. 

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1 hour ago, NODAYSOFFTX said:

I agree do you understand how disrespectful it is to lose your spot to a guy like Sanchez! Lol 🤦🏽‍♂️. smh can’t blame the man for leaving. 

LOL.  Ford didn't lose his spot. Pinkard lost his spot...lol 

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I think coach Holmes just needs to voluntary leave. Whether he wants to believe it or not. I think he has lost the locker room. With the kids and parents. I don't think they believe in him anymore. A coach might not see it because it is him. But everyone else sees it.

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8 minutes ago, VonG said:

I think coach Holmes just needs to voluntary leave. Whether he wants to believe it or not. I think he has lost the locker room. With the kids and parents. I don't think they believe in him anymore. A coach might not see it because it is him. But everyone else sees it.

hmmm.....

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13 minutes ago, VonG said:

I think coach Holmes just needs to voluntary leave. Whether he wants to believe it or not. I think he has lost the locker room. With the kids and parents. I don't think they believe in him anymore. A coach might not see it because it is him. But everyone else sees it.

Yikes lol. 🤷🏽‍♂️. If it’s that bad then he doesn’t have room to be saying what can go and what can’t haha. 

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