VonG Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 2 minutes ago, JTFAN99 said: Duncanville, North Shore, Skyline, Longview, Temple, Converse Judson, Calallen, Manvel...I can keep going. Cujo has about 700 blacks in the school. In the 90s and early 2000s it range from about 900-1100. Longview demo has change as well. It enough black kids combined with hispanics to put out a decent team. By the way, Mt Pleasant is nearly 70% Hispanic and they beat Sherman 24-7. Mt Pleasant also beat Wylie East 49-6 I said East Texas. JT is a talent based school. They don't have the talent of year's past. You also can't compare JT those other schools because they lack depth all the time and lack talent sometimes. JT has to split with Lee. Some years we have talent some years Tyler talent is very limited. Losing 200-400 blacks hurts your talent. That's probably 10-20 good players you lose because you lost that many blacks. JT is demographically challenged when it comes to football. Add Lee into that conversation also. That's why we have two less than average teams. I have been saying Tyler football as a whole is down. Add in the fact to many schools are eating off Tyler. We don't have enough talent to feed so many schools. In the 90's and early 2000's we had 4 football teams in Tyler, Texas. Now we have at least 9 including Brook Hill. I'm pretty sure most their students are from Tyler. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTFAN99 Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 14 minutes ago, VonG said: I said East Texas. JT is a talent based school. They don't have the talent of year's past. You also can't compare JT those other schools because they lack depth all the time and lack talent sometimes. JT has to split with Lee. Some years we have talent some years Tyler talent is very limited. Losing 200-400 blacks hurts your talent. That's probably 10-20 good players you lose because you lost that many blacks. JT is demographically challenged when it comes to football. Add Lee into that conversation also. That's why we have two less than average teams. I have been saying Tyler football as a whole is down. Add in the fact to many schools are eating off Tyler. We don't have enough talent to feed so many schools. In the 90's and early 2000's we had 4 football teams in Tyler, Texas. Now we have at least 9 including Brook Hill. I'm pretty sure most their students are from Tyler. I named 2 east Texas schools... Mt Pleasant and Longview. Mt Pleasant demographic issues have change alot, and they are 70 percent hispanic and they dominated Sherman and Wylie East. Cujo always had a demographic challenge. JT was always like one of the smallest schools in the old 5a (now 6a) and with only 200-300 more blacks they beat teams like Katy, Plano, Plane East, De Soto, Skyline, Westlake, and all the big boys. The demographics have changed and so has the competition, cause Cujo don't play schools like that anymore. They have dropped in class and they are playing much easier programs. Basically schools with same demo issues. But again, Longview has had same demo changes, but they have just as many if not more black kids out there than ever. And Lee has the most favorable demographics in East Texas and they have been mediocre since Owens left. I do understand that demo changes can have a huge affect, but its not like they are Dallas Sunset now. There are still plenty enough black kids. It ain't the demo. The difference is the coaching and staff. Mike Owens and Allen Wilson had great staffs, and they were top notch coaches. You see this at Longview and Carthage now. Legacy, despite its losing seasons for yrs can field 2 fresh, 2 jv and have 70 players on varsity. Tyler High doesn't have a freshman team despite all the recent sucess. Is it demo or is it something else, when you lose 30+ players in program this yr. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTFAN99 Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 The hispanic growth has hit all of Texas, not just East Texas. Its more than just demograghics, because there are white schools like the Plano schools that do nothing in football, and black schools like Beaumont United that haven't done anything either. Got to get a good coach that can connect with kids and have a decent youth and feeder program. The foundation is there in Tyler. but as of late its not translating to wins in North Tyler. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ANTI Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 I definitely understand that demo plays its role in success...but in Tyler High's case...I can't buy that its the main culprit in their struggles... Just take a look at black demographics alone. Longview had 751 blacks in the most recent snapshot, Tyler had 685. Longview has 70 more blacks.....but why are there 3x as many blacks (or more) showing up for football at Longview compared to Tyler? Even Marshall has more show up for football yearly and they have less blacks than TH. Why are valley schools like Harlingen, which are made up of 98% hispanics, able to field a freshmen team but Tyler can't? To me, it has to be deeper than demo. This is a culture/coaching issue. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NODAYSOFFTX Posted November 28, 2020 Author Share Posted November 28, 2020 1 minute ago, ANTI said: I definitely understand that demo plays its role in success...but in Tyler High's case...I can't buy that its the main culprit in their struggles... Just take a look at black demographics alone. Longview had 751 blacks in the most recent snapshot, Tyler had 685. Longview has 70 more blacks.....but why are there 3x as many blacks (or more) showing up for football at Longview compared to Tyler? Even Marshall has more show up for football yearly and they have less blacks than TH. Why are valley schools like Harlingen, which are made up of 98% hispanics, able to field a freshmen team but Tyler can't? To me, it has to be deeper than demo. This is a culture/coaching issue. Exactly it’s the coaches man it’s holmes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VonG Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 10 minutes ago, ANTI said: I definitely understand that demo plays its role in success...but in Tyler High's case...I can't buy that its the main culprit in their struggles... Just take a look at black demographics alone. Longview had 751 blacks in the most recent snapshot, Tyler had 685. Longview has 70 more blacks.....but why are there 3x as many blacks (or more) showing up for football at Longview compared to Tyler? Even Marshall has more show up for football yearly and they have less blacks than TH. Why are valley schools like Harlingen, which are made up of 98% hispanics, able to field a freshmen team but Tyler can't? To me, it has to be deeper than demo. This is a culture/coaching issue. Longview has a white population that JT doesn't have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VonG Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 1 hour ago, JTFAN99 said: I named 2 east Texas schools... Mt Pleasant and Longview. Mt Pleasant demographic issues have change alot, and they are 70 percent hispanic and they dominated Sherman and Wylie East. Cujo always had a demographic challenge. JT was always like one of the smallest schools in the old 5a (now 6a) and with only 200-300 more blacks they beat teams like Katy, Plano, Plane East, De Soto, Skyline, Westlake, and all the big boys. The demographics have changed and so has the competition, cause Cujo don't play schools like that anymore. They have dropped in class and they are playing much easier programs. Basically schools with same demo issues. But again, Longview has had same demo changes, but they have just as many if not more black kids out there than ever. And Lee has the most favorable demographics in East Texas and they have been mediocre since Owens left. I do understand that demo changes can have a huge affect, but its not like they are Dallas Sunset now. There are still plenty enough black kids. It ain't the demo. The difference is the coaching and staff. Mike Owens and Allen Wilson had great staffs, and they were top notch coaches. You see this at Longview and Carthage now. Legacy, despite its losing seasons for yrs can field 2 fresh, 2 jv and have 70 players on varsity. Tyler High doesn't have a freshman team despite all the recent sucess. Is it demo or is it something else, when you lose 30+ players in program this yr. You keep saying Mt Pleasant like they are good. They are not and haven't been for a while. Longview on the other hand has a white population that participates in football. JT doesn't have that luxury. Demographics will always play a role. Coaching plays a role also. Like I said earlier Tyler has to many football teams now compared to when they only had 4 in early 2000's. Throw in Cumberland, Tyler Classical, Premier, Kingdom Life Academy, and etc. They don't even have football but they have taken kids from Tisd. I'm quite sure they have some decent athletes who could play. They just don't because their schools don't have it. I've said before and I'll said again. Tyler football ####. Get use to it, because this is the new norm. Tisd is majority Hispanic and it's only going to increase. Longview gets the best talent in Longview. In Tyler we don't know what we are going to get until they step foot on campus. I wished they would have left the boundary lines like they were. You can thank Piske and company for crying to the atheltic director about how JT is making long playoff runs because they are getting some of Lee players. Foolishness on their behalf. You can't claim what you never had. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VonG Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 We don't have enough talent to make a good team but we do have some talented individual players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTFAN99 Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 16 minutes ago, VonG said: Longview has a white population that JT doesn't have. Yea, but they only make up 10 to 15% of football team. If no white kids played at Longview, they would still have almost twice as many players at Cujo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ANTI Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 18 minutes ago, VonG said: Longview has a white population that JT doesn't have. I was speaking specifically about the black pop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VonG Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 5 minutes ago, ANTI said: I was speaking specifically about the black pop. Your black population is just better than JT when it comes to football. Well I can't say that. Y'all better participation numbers than JT and Lee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VonG Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 3 minutes ago, JTFAN99 said: Yea, but they only make up 10 to 15% of football team. If no white kids played at Longview, they would still have almost twice as many players at Cujo. That's better than 0. Anything beats a blank. When Longview won state, what race was the qb? It helps more than it hurts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoboFan07 Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 23 minutes ago, VonG said: Longview has a white population that JT doesn't have. Are you saying not having a white population/participation is the only reason Cujo can't field a freshman team? I don't buy it. There's a massive culture issue at Tyler High, and I feel like it's extremely obvious to everyone. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VonG Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 7 minutes ago, VonG said: Your black population is just better than JT when it comes to football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTFAN99 Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 6 minutes ago, VonG said: You keep saying Mt Pleasant like they are good. They are not and haven't been for a while. Longview on the other hand has a white population that participates in football. JT doesn't have that luxury. Demographics will always play a role. Coaching plays a role also. Like I said earlier Tyler has to many football teams now compared to when they only had 4 in early 2000's. Throw in Cumberland, Tyler Classical, Premier, Kingdom Life Academy, and etc. They don't even have football but they have taken kids from Tisd. I'm quite sure they have some decent athletes who could play. They just don't because their schools don't have it. I've said before and I'll said again. Tyler football ####. Get use to it, because this is the new norm. Tisd is majority Hispanic and it's only going to increase. Longview gets the best talent in Longview. In Tyler we don't know what we are going to get until they step foot on campus. I understand that demo change can be an issue, but again, Cujo isn't playing the Katy's and DeSoto's anymore. They are playing teams with changing demographics too, and far less talent of the schools they used to beat in the past. And yes, I bring up Mt. Pleasant because they have changing demos but yet they smoked Wylie East and Sherman. Mt Pleasant demo as of 2019- 1000 Hispanics, 300 whites, 150 Blacks Cujo demo as of 2019 - 1300 Hispanics, 60 whites, 700 Blacks. So how come demo didn't stop Mt. Pleasant from beating Wylie East 49-6 and Sherman 24-7, But Cujo beat Wylie East 27-20, and lost to Sherman 30-9. It ain't demo. Those kids going to those private schools weren't coming to North Tyler anyway. They only hurt Legacy. But Legacy has more than enough on the demo side to make up for it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ANTI Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 13 minutes ago, VonG said: Your black population is just better than JT when it comes to football. We're not discussing quality right now, discussing quantity. Longview has 751 blacks...Tyler High has 685...King is getting a siginificant amount of blacks out for football than Holmes can dream of...why is that? Marshall has less blacks than Tyler High, but a much bigger black pop in their football program. How? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VonG Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 JT hasn't had a significant white population in years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTFAN99 Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 9 minutes ago, VonG said: That's better than 0. Anything beats a blank. When Longview won state, what race was the qb? It helps more than it hurts. so are you saying its not Coach Holmes fault. because there are 3a and 4a schools in EAst Texas with less blacks and whites combined than Tyler and they can field a JV and Freshman team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VonG Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 2 minutes ago, JTFAN99 said: I understand that demo change can be an issue, but again, Cujo isn't playing the Katy's and DeSoto's anymore. They are playing teams with changing demographics too, and far less talent of the schools they used to beat in the past. And yes, I bring up Mt. Pleasant because they have changing demos but yet they smoked Wylie East and Sherman. Mt Pleasant demo as of 2019- 1000 Hispanics, 300 whites, 150 Blacks Cujo demo as of 2019 - 1300 Hispanics, 60 whites, 700 Blacks. So how come demo didn't stop Mt. Pleasant from beating Wylie East 49-6 and Sherman 24-7, But Cujo beat Wylie East 27-20, and lost to Sherman 30-9. It ain't demo. Those kids going to those private schools weren't coming to North Tyler anyway. They only hurt Legacy. But Legacy has more than enough on the demo side to make up for it It happens. Mt. Pleasant is still not good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTFAN99 Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 2 minutes ago, VonG said: JT hasn't had a significant white population in years. even when they did, they didn't play football. There was 400 white students at JT in 94. They probably had 4 or 5 white kids on the state team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VonG Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 I'm driving right now. I'll reply back later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTFAN99 Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 1 minute ago, VonG said: It happens. Mt. Pleasant is still not good. So what does that say about Cujo. If Mt Pleasant is bad, and Tyler High is far worse....then you have a major problem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VonG Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 2 hours ago, JTFAN99 said: So what does that say about Cujo. If Mt Pleasant is bad, and Tyler High is far worse....then you have a major problem They are not good either. That's why they have only won 2 games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VonG Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 You say demographics don't matter. Well let me break it down to you like this. I'm give you a few scenarios. 1. Say you weigh 220 pounds. You are able to bench press 350 pounds. You are pretty strong but you don't like the way you look. You decide to lose weight. You lose weight and you weigh 185. Do you think you are going to be able to still lift 350 pounds? Hell no. You got cut but you lost to much muscle mass. So won't have the same strength and power you once had when you weighed 220 pounds. 2. You have a job and little bit of money saved. You lose your job and don't replace it because the economy is weak. You are alright for a couple of months because you have some change put away. Will you still have that same lifestyle you were living when you had your job? Hell no. The reason why you haven't replaced your job with the same or something greater. So you lose car, your house, and all your utilities get cut off because you have no money. 3. You have a football team that's been pretty good throughout the years. Their demographics that had all the talent starts to get smaller and smaller and smaller. They haven't replaced the talent with the same or greater demographics. It's replaced with a different demographics that is not as talented as the demographics they use to have. How do you expect them to keep competing at the same level they use to when the talent pool is shrinking. That's what's happening at JT. They could only last so long before it starts to get bad. If you lose something and don't replace it with the same or greater. You are going to start falling off sooner or later. The more the talent pool shrinks. The less talent you have to pull from. If JT black population keep shrinking. Guess what. The talent will keep shrinking. If JT black population goes up. Guess what. The talent will go up. It has alot to do with demographics. It also has alot to do with coaching. A coach is only is good as the talent he have. Now I talked to a jv player from JT. I asked him what happened to the freshman team. His reply was some kids got sick with covid 19 and they never came back. Take it for what it's worth. I'm sure there's more to the story. I don't know. I'm not in the locker room every day to know what's going on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VonG Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 On a side note. Lee had 2 freshman teams. They only had 1 jv team. If I remember correctly. They only 56 kids on their varsity not 70. That's what I counted on their team picture. I could be off a few but it definitely wasn't no 70 players. Another thing. I named all charter schools in one of my posts. There is no way all those kids would end up at Lee if there were no charter schools to go to. They couldn't physically fit all those kids at Lee. So yeah JT would benefit also. Not all kids who go to those schools live south of Hwy 31. Scratch that. If Tisd was counting the 456 kids who go to rise and early college toward JT and Lee. That would benefit both high schools. Not saying they would play sports but it enhance their enrollment numbers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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