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'The Year of School Choice': 8 states introduce school-choice legislation in January


RETIREDFAN1

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5 minutes ago, DannyZuco said:

Yes, we've talked about this before, local taxes stay local--you don't get to earmark your own taxes. That has NEVER been done in this country. And there is no way in the world that the amount you pay in your local property taxes is going to pay to keep a poor kid in private school. It IS NOT enough money. 

School choice is there, you just have to move or accept the conditions that are presented. 

But the school choice that our state legislators want you to think you get is nothing but a way for rich white folks to get their money back for sending their kids to exclusive private schools. It has NOTHING to do with helping inner city kids get to another district, or helping with getting better educations. 

Because if we go to a taxation plan that allows me to pick where I want my taxes spent, I can guarantee you that not 1 Social program will get a dime of my money--it would all go to the National Park system. Because that is my favorite thing about the United States right now. 

Agree to disagree because you are wrong.  Tax dollars designated to educate local kids should go to local kids regardless of the school that they choose. ANYTHING else is just public school folks protecting their competitions-less nest eggs. 

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9 minutes ago, trashyhound said:

Agree to disagree because you are wrong.  Tax dollars designated to educate local kids should go to local kids regardless of the school that they choose. ANYTHING else is just public school folks protecting their competitions-less nest eggs. 

I am NOT wrong, because property taxes are based on TAXES of property in a designated area. Taking those dollars from one property designated area and giving it to another is nothing more that REDISTRIBUTION of WEALTH. 

Again, you don't seem to understand that KIDS already have the right to choose where they want to go to school. All you are wanting is what I said before--the REDISTRIBUTION of WEALTH. 

What do you expect to happen, some kid from Woden is going to take his tax dollars and head to Southlake--are schools going to have to put in dorms, so those long distance kids have somewhere to live? 

This isn't some plan by the teachers to keep their little nest eggs. The state of Texas promised teachers a retirement program--which we pay into EVERY month--I believe 7.1% of our salary goes into it this year--7.7% next year--8.3 or 5% the year after that. And the state is suppose to pay into it also, Which they have not done fully in several years. 

And above, I showed how it was UNSUSTAINABLE--just like social security. So for me and the Barry--yes, it might be a little nice retirement, but years from now, it'll be broke, just like SS. 

BTW--I didn't get into education for the money--I had much higher paying jobs offered to me with I graduated from college, but I wanted to Coach and Teach in Texas, therefore I followed my dreams, I have accomplished many of my goals, but missed on some of them. But I can live with myself and what I have done, because I tried at every turn to maintain a balanced life. 

I will ALWAYS disagree with property tax dollars being given to people to spend where they want. Especially private schools that do NOT have as high a standard at public education. 

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33 minutes ago, DannyZuco said:

I am NOT wrong, because property taxes are based on TAXES of property in a designated area. Taking those dollars from one property designated area and giving it to another is nothing more that REDISTRIBUTION of WEALTH. 

Again, you don't seem to understand that KIDS already have the right to choose where they want to go to school. All you are wanting is what I said before--the REDISTRIBUTION of WEALTH. 

What do you expect to happen, some kid from Woden is going to take his tax dollars and head to Southlake--are schools going to have to put in dorms, so those long distance kids have somewhere to live? 

This isn't some plan by the teachers to keep their little nest eggs. The state of Texas promised teachers a retirement program--which we pay into EVERY month--I believe 7.1% of our salary goes into it this year--7.7% next year--8.3 or 5% the year after that. And the state is suppose to pay into it also, Which they have not done fully in several years. 

And above, I showed how it was UNSUSTAINABLE--just like social security. So for me and the Barry--yes, it might be a little nice retirement, but years from now, it'll be broke, just like SS. 

BTW--I didn't get into education for the money--I had much higher paying jobs offered to me with I graduated from college, but I wanted to Coach and Teach in Texas, therefore I followed my dreams, I have accomplished many of my goals, but missed on some of them. But I can live with myself and what I have done, because I tried at every turn to maintain a balanced life. 

I will ALWAYS disagree with property tax dollars being given to people to spend where they want. Especially private schools that do NOT have as high a standard at public education. 

So tax dollars aren't already spent to educate our kids? 

So the only redistribution is which school gets that childs allotment of money. The local kid still gets his education, which is what that money should be for, not to prop up local schools at all cost. 

Do schools now put kids in dorms? No, so nothing changes there. 

Kids do not have a choice at all. Their choice is: Go where we send you or pay for it yourself? Some choice. 

You and Barry are more than entitled to your retirement. I am a fan of teachers. You guys are underpaid and underappreciated. Thanks for all you do! But, public school teachers are mistaken in thinking that school competition would be a bad thing for them. It would make a broader range of employment opportunities just as it would education opportunities. 

So you are for YOU getting to decide where to spend tax dollars, just not the kids who they are earmarked to educate? 

Fyi- I am pro teacher/ coaches/ educators! I am also pro school choice as there is zero harm anyone and only benefit for the kids. 

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17 minutes ago, trashyhound said:

So tax dollars aren't already spent to educate our kids? 

So the only redistribution is which school gets that childs allotment of money. The local kid still gets his education, which is what that money should be for, not to prop up local schools at all cost. 

Do schools now put kids in dorms? No, so nothing changes there. 

Kids do not have a choice at all. Their choice is: Go where we send you or pay for it yourself? Some choice. 

You and Barry are more than entitled to your retirement. I am a fan of teachers. You guys are underpaid and underappreciated. Thanks for all you do! But, public school teachers are mistaken in thinking that school competition would be a bad thing for them. It would make a broader range of employment opportunities just as it would education opportunities. 

So you are for YOU getting to decide where to spend tax dollars, just not the kids who they are earmarked to educate? 

Fyi- I am pro teacher/ coaches/ educators! I am also pro school choice as there is zero harm anyone and only benefit for the kids. 

But it is NOT fair, because one school district might not have as high of property taxes as another school district. So some kid from Elkhart is not going to get enough money to go to a private school in Tyler, so where does the rest of the money come from? 

But the fact is LOCAL PROPERTY TAXES stay in the local property tax district--that is just plain common sense....Doesn't matter if the money is earmarked for education, building maintenance, or whatever, it stays with the local TAX DISTRICT. 

Would I be for getting to earmark my tax dollars--heck yes, who wouldn't want to....but you know as well as do, no GOVERNMENT in their right mind is going to do that--they wouldn't be able to buy the votes. 

And BTW--almost every school district in Texas takes students from other school districts--just to get their ADA (average daily attendance) up so they get more money from the state (not local property taxes). So yes, most of Texas has school choice--the big problem is getting your kid to another school district, which NO OTHER taxpayer should have to foot the bill for. You want your kid in another school district, take him there. Don't expect a bus to come get them. Because you choose to leave your school district. Plus, again, you can choose your school district by moving into their district. That is a choice, because NO ONE CAN STOP A PERSON FROM MOVING INTO A PLACE. 

I don't have a problem with school competition--heck I welcome it. But when the ENTIRE state has to follow the same rules about graduations and testing--that private and some charter schools don't have to--it all comes down to teachers and administrations. Good ones people want to be educated there, bad ones, well they get a terrible reputation, meaning they should be working harder to get students. 

Private schools do NOT have to follow the rules and most only require kids to take one "test" the SAT's, that is why rich people want their kids there, plus the lack of minorities, even if they are minorities. 

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21 minutes ago, DannyZuco said:

But it is NOT fair, because one school district might not have as high of property taxes as another school district. So some kid from Elkhart is not going to get enough money to go to a private school in Tyler, so where does the rest of the money come from? 

But the fact is LOCAL PROPERTY TAXES stay in the local property tax district--that is just plain common sense....Doesn't matter if the money is earmarked for education, building maintenance, or whatever, it stays with the local TAX DISTRICT. 

Would I be for getting to earmark my tax dollars--heck yes, who wouldn't want to....but you know as well as do, no GOVERNMENT in their right mind is going to do that--they wouldn't be able to buy the votes. 

And BTW--almost every school district in Texas takes students from other school districts--just to get their ADA (average daily attendance) up so they get more money from the state (not local property taxes). So yes, most of Texas has school choice--the big problem is getting your kid to another school district, which NO OTHER taxpayer should have to foot the bill for. You want your kid in another school district, take him there. Don't expect a bus to come get them. Because you choose to leave your school district. Plus, again, you can choose your school district by moving into their district. That is a choice, because NO ONE CAN STOP A PERSON FROM MOVING INTO A PLACE. 

I don't have a problem with school competition--heck I welcome it. But when the ENTIRE state has to follow the same rules about graduations and testing--that private and some charter schools don't have to--it all comes down to teachers and administrations. Good ones people want to be educated there, bad ones, well they get a terrible reputation, meaning they should be working harder to get students. 

Private schools do NOT have to follow the rules and most only require kids to take one "test" the SAT's, that is why rich people want their kids there, plus the lack of minorities, even if they are minorities. 

I could be wrong, but my understanding is that in the county where I live, students can go to any school in the county, but apparently you have to be on your top behavior, because the school district doesn't have to accept you if it's not your "home" district.

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29 minutes ago, DannyZuco said:

But it is NOT fair, because one school district might not have as high of property taxes as another school district. So some kid from Elkhart is not going to get enough money to go to a private school in Tyler, so where does the rest of the money come from? 

But the fact is LOCAL PROPERTY TAXES stay in the local property tax district--that is just plain common sense....Doesn't matter if the money is earmarked for education, building maintenance, or whatever, it stays with the local TAX DISTRICT. 

Would I be for getting to earmark my tax dollars--heck yes, who wouldn't want to....but you know as well as do, no GOVERNMENT in their right mind is going to do that--they wouldn't be able to buy the votes. 

And BTW--almost every school district in Texas takes students from other school districts--just to get their ADA (average daily attendance) up so they get more money from the state (not local property taxes). So yes, most of Texas has school choice--the big problem is getting your kid to another school district, which NO OTHER taxpayer should have to foot the bill for. You want your kid in another school district, take him there. Don't expect a bus to come get them. Because you choose to leave your school district. Plus, again, you can choose your school district by moving into their district. That is a choice, because NO ONE CAN STOP A PERSON FROM MOVING INTO A PLACE. 

I don't have a problem with school competition--heck I welcome it. But when the ENTIRE state has to follow the same rules about graduations and testing--that private and some charter schools don't have to--it all comes down to teachers and administrations. Good ones people want to be educated there, bad ones, well they get a terrible reputation, meaning they should be working harder to get students. 

Private schools do NOT have to follow the rules and most only require kids to take one "test" the SAT's, that is why rich people want their kids there, plus the lack of minorities, even if they are minorities. 

So when "local" taxes buy a culvert or a cop car, they can only spend that money in their jurisdiction? No, they can spend it wherever they deem the best place to buy that product. Education should be no different. 

So in your mind the correct way to do education is if you're from a rich town you get quality education but if your from a poor family just #### it up cuz you're stuck? 

I'd rather all kids have a chance at a quality education, but just the rich kids. 

Lol, so private school parents are racist? It's not that they want a superior education, just they don't want minorities? C'mon man

Why should anyone have to take a certain test?  Why can't teachers and principals decide what's best for kids? You'd rather have the Austin machine decide? 

You just proved my point for me. Parents who care would rather not have the public school product, why not extend that opportunity to everyone? 

 

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11 minutes ago, Monte1076 said:

I could be wrong, but my understanding is that in the county where I live, students can go to any school in the county, but apparently you have to be on your top behavior, because the school district doesn't have to accept you if it's not your "home" district.

Imagine that, I wonder what would happen to behavior in schools if everyone did that? 

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2 hours ago, trashyhound said:

So when "local" taxes buy a culvert or a cop car, they can only spend that money in their jurisdiction? No, they can spend it wherever they deem the best place to buy that product. Education should be no different. But property taxes in cities, counties, hospital districts, school districts--they are all the same. That money they collect stays in their district--doesn't get sent next door, or over to Tyler to fix a culvert or cop car. The money is brought in and budgeted where it needs to be. If you start handing out "tax checks" there cannot be budgets. 

So in your mind the correct way to do education is if you're from a rich town you get quality education but if your from a poor family just #### it up cuz you're stuck? it's not in my mind, it happens already, that is why Texas and School Districts have been fighting the "Robin Hood" rule for decades. School districts with higher property tax values and larger have more money and they ship it to other districts to do with what they want. I know when I worked in Richardson, we were sending money to Mesquite--and they were buying huge TV monitors for their 2 football stadiums, not using it to educate the kids better.  

I'd rather all kids have a chance at a quality education, but just the rich kids. 

Lol, so private school parents are racist? It's not that they want a superior education, just they don't want minorities? C'mon man No, Not all private school parents are racists, just the ones that are funding the legislators who are trying to get vouchers passed. They want it easier for their kids, no over crowded classes, no testing, just pay and pass. In reality, why would someone pay extra to send their kids to a school, when EVERY state in the union offers a FREE education. 

Why should anyone have to take a certain test?  Why can't teachers and principals decide what's best for kids? You'd rather have the Austin machine decide? Well you have to take tests to qualify for colleges, almost every state requires students to pass tests to graduate. It the rule of law these days. But people bypass the laws by attending private schools. Hey, and that is fine with me, but never should taxpayer dollars pay for a kid to get an education when they ALL don't have to follow the same rules.  

You just proved my point for me. Parents who care would rather not have the public school product, why not extend that opportunity to everyone? Well any parent has that choice--but they DO NOT get taxpayer dollars to fund a privately funded school--that itself is UNAMERICAN. You want a private education--it is out there for you--you just have to earn it yourself, not on the backs of other taxpayers. Because there is NO WAY that one's yearly property taxes would pay for even a semester at a "good" private school. 

 

Reading your last Question, kind of makes wonder, if we can extend that opportunity to "education", why not extend all tax dollars to every whim in this country. Heck, give me my tax dollars so I can buy an airplane, a bus, a car, a vacation--I am sure you'll tell me to buy my own stuff.  Private education is exactly the same thing, you want it, earn it/buy it. 

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2 hours ago, Monte1076 said:

I could be wrong, but my understanding is that in the county where I live, students can go to any school in the county, but apparently you have to be on your top behavior, because the school district doesn't have to accept you if it's not your "home" district.

That is true across most of Texas. Schools can kick you out with bad behavior. But that stuff won't happen if you are sending them extra dollars, meaning that the district will head downhill, because administrations want money more than discipline in schools these days. 

But hey lookie, his county allows choice--which is what I have been telling you from the beginning. Imagine that?  

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1 hour ago, DannyZuco said:

Reading your last Question, kind of makes wonder, if we can extend that opportunity to "education", why not extend all tax dollars to every whim in this country. Heck, give me my tax dollars so I can buy an airplane, a bus, a car, a vacation--I am sure you'll tell me to buy my own stuff.  Private education is exactly the same thing, you want it, earn it/buy it. 

Because education dollars are for education. It's really not that difficult, it's not.  But the public school machine will not be denied. 

Giving parents and kids a say in their education is in un-American? Lol, ok. 

Are education taxes not already spent on education? What's the difference with vouchers? Oh I know, it's not guaranteed to go to your employer. It might have to be earned through competition. 

Last question as I know we'll never agree, What's better for the kids? 

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3 hours ago, trashyhound said:

Because education dollars are for education. It's really not that difficult, it's not.  But the public school machine will not be denied. 

Giving parents and kids a say in their education is in un-American? Lol, ok. 

Are education taxes not already spent on education? What's the difference with vouchers? Oh I know, it's not guaranteed to go to your employer. It might have to be earned through competition. 

Last question as I know we'll never agree, What's better for the kids? 

I wonder if he’d be ok with paying SS and TRS knowing full well he’ll never see a dime of the return of SS? It’s not enough to collect the taxes from people with no kids in the system but live in the discrict, no he wants it all from everybody. One day we will all work for the mothership! Communism here we come! 

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