Jump to content

To Mask or Not To Mask Question Answered Differently In One Town With Two School Districts


BarryLaverty

Recommended Posts

20 hours ago, trashyhound said:

That’s the root of the problem. 
You insist that the money is property of the isd. 
I say vouchers could make that money belong to the students who live in the area. 

i struggle to see how you can’t see around isd corner

Again, people VOTE to have an INDEPENDENT SCHOOL DISTRICT--so they can control local education. That is why it is the ISDs money--not the students money. Most of the student money comes from the state based on attendance. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, DannyZuco said:

Let's see if you can understand this--

Private schools are funded privately--they do NOT have to accept any and everyone. Therefore, they don't get TAX dollars--period. The are NOT held responsible to the local, state, and federal governments. They can do whatever the heck they want to. Including making students take bible classes, anti-bible classes, & ect...... Unlike construction companies and other industries, how will we know if the student is getting an education--will you want the Private schools to take the same STAAR tests that public schools do? When a road is complete, inspectors inspect it, and you have a tangible thing that is completed, that's why you get paid. But that cannot be said in education--what are tangibles that prove our tax dollars were well spent. 

Public Schools are funded through the state process of LOCAL PROPERTY taxes--which fund the maintenance and facilities of the education of the student. And those public schools are held to standards--by the local, state, and federal governments. 

 

You still don’t get it. Sad

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, DannyZuco said:

I have never said I wasn't in favor of vouchers--In fact a few months ago I mentioned, as yesterday that the state money is up for grabs if you want to do vouchers. But I will NEVER be in favor of taking LOCAL PROPERTY TAXES and sending them to another district. That is nothing more than wealth redistribution--which I am against IN ANY FORM or fashion. 

But again, if you want to take the state sales tax funds and provide vouchers for kids, have at it. Because everyone around the state that purchases something pays into the sales tax. Those folks in school districts, that have been voted on by the people to exist, cannot afford to lose their funds, because someone might want to live in a lower property tax area, but want to send their kids to high powered fancy school. 

As I have said before--school vouchers are nothing more that rich politicians wanting to keep their money and send their kids to private school at the cost of the public. 

Since, we haven't talked about this much--how much should a voucher be--I mean the amount of a voucher? 

And your wrong again. 
 

I’m not rich or a politician, and i wouldn’t send my kids to a high powered private school. 
But I’m all in favor of vouchers if it makes education better for one kid. 
 

With vouchers local kids would still receive local taxes. You only want local taxes to be for local PUBLIC school districts. It’s just a cute talking point for those in public education to safe guard their monopoly. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, DannyZuco said:

Again, people VOTE to have an INDEPENDENT SCHOOL DISTRICT--so they can control local education. That is why it is the ISDs money--not the students money. Most of the student money comes from the state based on attendance. 

When did you vote to have s public school district? 
i have never seen that in a ballot. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, DannyZuco said:

I have already stated that, no school is free--they are just paid for differently--one is paid for with property tax dollars, and private schools are paid with private money. 

Correct. And i say pay for both with tax dollars if the STUDENT and their family so choose. 
 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, DannyZuco said:

Let's see if you can understand this--

Private schools are funded privately--they do NOT have to accept any and everyone. Therefore, they don't get TAX dollars--period. The are NOT held responsible to the local, state, and federal governments. They can do whatever the heck they want to. Including making students take bible classes, anti-bible classes, & ect...... Unlike construction companies and other industries, how will we know if the student is getting an education--will you want the Private schools to take the same STAAR tests that public schools do? When a road is complete, inspectors inspect it, and you have a tangible thing that is completed, that's why you get paid. But that cannot be said in education--what are tangibles that prove our tax dollars were well spent. 

Public Schools are funded through the state process of LOCAL PROPERTY taxes--which fund the maintenance and facilities of the education of the student. And those public schools are held to standards--by the local, state, and federal governments. 

 

Ok, they don’t have to accept everyone. So what? Yes they can do whatever they want to do even teach Bible classes. ( the horror!) With vouchers if a student and parents don’t like that they do not have to attend that school. 
 

DANNY!!! EVERYONE KNOWS HOW SCHOOLS ARE FUNDED!!!

I want to change that by offering vouchers to use those dollars wherever a kid chooses , not wherever the state dictates! 

Man, if you will sacrifice the quality of students education for the sake of locking that money to your local public school, then we are just different cats. I would spend the money for that local kids wherever it benefits that local kid! 
 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, trashyhound said:

When did you vote to have s public school district? 
i have never seen that in a ballot. 

I never had a chance to vote because they were already formed prior to my starting school in Deep East Texas. But I have heard and read about school districts consolidating--or disbanding over the past 20 or so years. Isn't LaPoyner a consolidated school district in east Texas? 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, trashyhound said:

Ok, they don’t have to accept everyone. So what? Yes they can do whatever they want to do even teach Bible classes. ( the horror!) With vouchers if a student and parents don’t like that they do not have to attend that school. 
 

DANNY!!! EVERYONE KNOWS HOW SCHOOLS ARE FUNDED!!!

I want to change that by offering vouchers to use those dollars wherever a kid chooses , not wherever the state dictates! 

Man, if you will sacrifice the quality of students education for the sake of locking that money to your local public school, then we are just different cats. I would spend the money for that local kids wherever it benefits that local kid! 
 

 

But you still didn't answer whether or not you would hold private schools accountable, or how they would be held accountable? All you want to do is allow some child to pick or chose their schools--adults can't even do the right thing most of the time, but you want a child--who gets mad at a teacher on Monday to be allowed to choose another school on Tuesday. 

The state DOES NOT DICTATE where a child has to attend school--that is up to the parents!!!!!

And again, they can attend any school in Texas if they so choose. But if you live in a different independent school district--you don't get to take your LOCAL property taxes with you. Again, that has been set up by the local community and that is where those LOCAL property taxes stay, period!!!!!

And BTW--How Much should a voucher be? How much money should a kid get to take? That alone would help answer some of your thoughts. I have to wonder if you might be one of those "spare the rod, spoil the child" people. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, trashyhound said:

Correct. And i say pay for both with tax dollars if the STUDENT and their family so choose. 
 

NO on Local Property Taxes--I don't want a private industry using my tax dollars when they have NO accountability. That is what Uncle Joe just forgave a bunch of loan takers--a free donation to their pocket books, because they were NOT smart enough to know that schools can NOT guarantee great jobs and employment. And while many won their cases, and had money returned, they are forgiven of their student debt--at the stroke of a pen. And now you want the same situation at the K-12 schools. No standards is what you would be getting. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Youngcoach123 said:

You still don’t get it. Sad

I get it, you just don't like the correct answers. You feel that children should be allowed to take local taxpayer dollars and spend them where ever the heck they choose. Insanity at its finest.--that's what is sad. 

  • LOL! 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ok Danny, you and I agree on most everything except this topic. Surely we’re big enough to work through this or agree to disagree. 
 

what about this scenario: 

Tomorrow, Jett the gazillionaire leaves his entire poo empire to the state of Texas designated for the education of Texas youth. It is set up to be limitless funds that will not run out and can’t be outspent. 
In that scenario would you support school choice? 
Kids and parents choosing their own school regardless of location, public or private, religious or not, whatever. 
Would you support the freedom to choose? 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, DannyZuco said:

I never had a chance to vote because they were already formed prior to my starting school in Deep East Texas. But I have heard and read about school districts consolidating--or disbanding over the past 20 or so years. Isn't LaPoyner a consolidated school district in east Texas? 

I’m not sure about Lapoyner but i do know that schools have and do consolidate. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, DannyZuco said:

I get it, you just don't like the correct answers. You feel that children should be allowed to take local taxpayer dollars and spend them where ever the heck they choose. Insanity at its finest.--that's what is sad. 

I would argue that forcing students to spend that money where you choose is instantly. Freedom of choice is never insanity, ever. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, DannyZuco said:

But you still didn't answer whether or not you would hold private schools accountable, or how they would be held accountable? All you want to do is allow some child to pick or chose their schools--adults can't even do the right thing most of the time, but you want a child--who gets mad at a teacher on Monday to be allowed to choose another school on Tuesday. 

The state DOES NOT DICTATE where a child has to attend school--that is up to the parents!!!!!

And again, they can attend any school in Texas if they so choose. But if you live in a different independent school district--you don't get to take your LOCAL property taxes with you. Again, that has been set up by the local community and that is where those LOCAL property taxes stay, period!!!!!

And BTW--How Much should a voucher be? How much money should a kid get to take? That alone would help answer some of your thoughts. I have to wonder if you might be one of those "spare the rod, spoil the child" people. 

In a vouchers system schools would be held accountable by parents and students not choosing to attend there if they are poor schools. 
I have never said a kid should be allowed to transfer from Monday to Tuesday. Exaggerate much? 

Who is holding schools accountable now? i would argue those individuals should be the ones we are angry with. 
 

Really complicated math here. 
Take school district X, take the state money, local taxes, etc. all school funding and divide that number by the number of students. That total is your voucher amount. 
 

I assure you i was not spared the Rod. Quite the contrary. But my Dad, while imprinting his 1980s belt name impression on my backside, taught me right from wrong.  Anchoring our youth to the schools of today because of money is nothing short of selfish stupidity. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 3/25/2021 at 8:55 AM, BarryLaverty said:

My district and most of those around me voted to keep the mandate through the rest of the school year. 

https://www.yahoo.com/news/one-texas-town-two-school-110100601.html

One Texas Town, Two School Districts, Clashing Mask Policies: How Science and Politics Collided in New Braunfels’ Classrooms

 
 
Bekah McNeel
 
 
2d5eb051c7006dcc015f2ca9ba7eda62

This article was produced in partnership with The Texas Tribune.

For locals and tourists, it’s hard to overstate the charm of New Braunfels, Texas, a place of spring-fed rivers, dancehalls, and German festivals.

Yet against this idyllic backdrop, the nation’s ongoing fight over mask-wearing has pitted neighbor against neighbor and put the region’s schoolkids squarely in the middle of an overheated argument.

In what quickly became a conversation about science, personal liberty, and the role of government, the town’s two school boards, New Braunfels ISD and Comal ISD, landed on opposite sides of the face covering debate earlier this month after Gov. Greg Abbott announced the statewide mask mandate would end March 10.

 

In New Braunfels ISD, which serves more low income and Latino students, the school board opted to survey parents, resulting in a vote to keep the school mask mandate. The Comal ISD board, representing whiter, more rural parts of Comal county voted 5-2 in an eleventh hour meeting to make masks voluntary after members touted personal responsibility and parental choice. One Comal ISD board member, Marty Bartlett, cited the arguments of well-known conspiracy theorists and vaccine skeptics who say masks are government overreach, not sound science.

The mask battle in New Braunfels clearly has political overtones, but this isn’t your typical liberal vs. conservative fight. New Braunfels sits on the southeastern edge of Comal County, whose residents gave Donald Trump 70% of the vote in November.

In this case the fight is more about moderate conservatives vs. those on the far right.

And Comal ISD’s political leanings are already affecting students and teachers in a big way as masks disappear from classrooms, Comal ISD parents and teachers say.

Students are facing peer pressure to abandon masks. Teachers don’t know whose parents prefer for them to wear the masks. Parents who don’t want their children in class or crowded hallways with unmasked people must decide whether to go back to remote learning.

“Teachers had no time to prepare,” said Comal ISD middle school teacher and parent Kate Fraser, adding the day after the board meeting students showed up without masks. “You feel as a teacher you can’t do what you need to do to protect the kids.”

The fast-growing suburbs and exurbs of San Antonio and rural areas of the Texas Hill Country where children attend Comal ISD schools have pulled the county further to the right, while more moderate conservatives struggle to hold on to the city of New Braunfels.

“I’ve always been a conservative, still am, still vote (for) the Republican party. But the shift has been further and further and further to the right,” said Doug Miller, who represented Comal County in the Texas legislature before losing his seat to Kyle Biedermann, a far-right conservative who attended the Trump rally in Washington D.C. on the day of the January 6 insurrection.

Trump won all but one precinct in Comal County in 2020, capturing up to 79% of the vote in some precincts. His margins were widest in the rural areas in Comal ISD, and lower in New Braunfels ISD.

The two districts, both headquartered in New Braunfels, the largest city in the county, have subtle but important differences: New Braunfels ISD is majority non white students (54%) to Comal ISD’s 48%; 38% of New Braunfels ISD students qualify for free and reduced lunch, while in 30% qualify in Comal ISD.

The demographic differences between the two districts may seem small, but parents say Trumpism has had an impact on the county, and the way the two boards settled the mask debate is the perfect example. Anti-mask beliefs have become synonymous with far-right conservatism.

“I really think it was ideology and not anything else,” Valerie Garza Estes, a Comal ISD parent said of the board vote. “Listening to the board meeting, that’s perfectly clear.”

After Trump, Comal parents and students with “privilege” Estes said, “are willing to be louder and meaner and push their ideas or views without even feeling there would be consequences.”

Board members who voted to remove the mandate cited parental choice, while the two dissenting votes argued masks were critical to safe in-person learning.

“What the data shows is that after every break from school we have a lot of kids who come back who get exposed outside the school,” said trustee Russell Garner. The number goes down once kids are in school. With masks the transmission rate is “almost zero,” he said.

During the board meeting trustee Jason York argued it should be up to parents to decide how best to keep their children safe, and voted to lift the mandate.

His daughter, York said, would be wearing one. If other parents want their children attending prom, graduation, and other activities, he said, “then they’re going to continue to send their children with a mask.”

That may not be true.

Sandy Mathis, parent of three elementary school students in Comal ISD, said her family respectfully complied with the mask requirement, even though they believed that wearing masks all day had a negative effect on their children’s health and distracted them from learning.

“Now that we have been given the gift of parental choice, my kids will no longer be wearing a mask to school,” Mathis wrote in a message to The 74. Some at her children’s school have kept the mask, others have not. Some children are wearing them for a few weeks out of caution as spring breakers return.

Removing the mask mandate gives parents a choice, but not teachers who may now have to spend an entire day with maskless students, argued trustee Tim Hennessee during the board meeting. He voted to keep the mask mandate. “I think this shows a total lack of respect to the teachers.”

Of the schools he represents— in a suburban part of the district with the highest non-white population— 3/4 wanted to keep the mask mandate, he said. York countered by saying 3/4 of the campuses he represents— which are in the most rural part of the district with the highest white population— wanted to be able to choose.

A Facebook group called Open Comal County Schools Safely conducted its own survey and plans to present the results to the board at its March 25 meeting.

When asked about the overall preferences of the district, Superintendent Andrew Kim said most teachers and principals indicated they would continue to wear masks.

“It varies by certain areas of our school district, I will say that,” Kim said.

His comment — and the feedback from Hennessee’s and York’s districts — suggests the tension between conservative and ultra-conservative viewpoints exists not just between New Braunfels ISD and Comal ISD, but within Comal ISD as well.

Estes said that Trump’s racist and xenophobic rhetoric immediately showed up in Comal ISD schools in 2016, when classmates began to taunt her son about his Latina mother. During the pandemic, some students echoed Trump’s cavalier attitude, she said.

In August Board President David Drastata referred to COVID-19 using Trump’s racist “China virus” epithet in an athletic booster club email. He later apologized.

Miller described the new conservatism as uncompromising and domineering. “Their position is: if you disagree with me, you’re wrong.”

Kim expressed concern that emboldened parents with strong anti-mask views would become a distraction for teachers and principals if the district kept its own mandate without the state mandate backing it up.

“I think the last thing I would like to see is our administrators having a protracted philosophical conversation with our parents in the hallways,” said Kim.

The answer, the board decided, was simply to let those parents have their way.

Forget the Political Arguments. These two schools offer a perfect scenario to study if mask work or not. Same town. Different Schools. - Perfect. Will send a letter to Texas Tribune for follow up article to find out if there are any differences in infection rate between the schools. 

We have already seen a 26% reduction in Covid the last two weeks statewide. This could put the political arguments to bed once and for all 

Thanks for the Story 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 hours ago, trashyhound said:

Ok Danny, you and I agree on most everything except this topic. Surely we’re big enough to work through this or agree to disagree. 
 

what about this scenario: 

Tomorrow, Jett the gazillionaire leaves his entire poo empire to the state of Texas designated for the education of Texas youth. It is set up to be limitless funds that will not run out and can’t be outspent. 
In that scenario would you support school choice? 
Kids and parents choosing their own school regardless of location, public or private, religious or not, whatever. 
Would you support the freedom to choose? 

Jett a really great guy 

Why wouldn't you allow School choice - Academic Only. Don't need Garrison recruiting everyone around here 

Academically though I think it makes sense and puts competition in the mix for the administration to pressure for excellence  

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 3/25/2021 at 1:53 PM, DannyZuco said:

And again, you must not have read what the other person said, ONLY the children matter, which means that he doesn't care about the teacher.

And BTW--how do you know that I don't work in a district with a juvenile detention center within its borders? Which would allow me to call the inmates. You do understand that while juveniles are in detention that they also are being educated? That is pretty much state mandated--as is the state mandate if you go to prison without a high school diploma or GED--you have to have one before you can finish serving your time, or get paroled, in Texas. 

And YES--there are school districts with juvenile detention centers in them, I think Longview, Sherman, and Quinlan have those types of facilities--as do others out in West Texas and the panhandle. 

I never used the word only. I said the schools are about the children, never used the word only.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 hours ago, DannyZuco said:

NO on Local Property Taxes--I don't want a private industry using my tax dollars when they have NO accountability. 

That pretty much sums it up. If I pay 4K a year in ISD taxes, to you that is your money. To me, if that money isn’t used to educate my kid in that ISD, it’s called stealing. I am forced to pay for something I don’t use and my tax money I put in, doesn’t go with my child. RIDICULOUS 

  • Like 1
  • Roll Eyes 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 hours ago, trashyhound said:

Ok Danny, you and I agree on most everything except this topic. Surely we’re big enough to work through this or agree to disagree. 
 

what about this scenario: 

Tomorrow, Jett the gazillionaire leaves his entire poo empire to the state of Texas designated for the education of Texas youth. It is set up to be limitless funds that will not run out and can’t be outspent. 
In that scenario would you support school choice? 
Kids and parents choosing their own school regardless of location, public or private, religious or not, whatever. 
Would you support the freedom to choose? 

How I get in this? 

  • LOL! 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, osup116 said:

Jett a really great guy 

Why wouldn't you allow School choice - Academic Only. Don't need Garrison recruiting everyone around here 

Academically though I think it makes sense and puts competition in the mix for the administration to pressure for excellence  

 

I think so as well LOL

  • LOL! 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 3/26/2021 at 7:20 PM, trashyhound said:

Ok Danny, you and I agree on most everything except this topic. Surely we’re big enough to work through this or agree to disagree. 
 

what about this scenario: 

Tomorrow, Jett the gazillionaire leaves his entire poo empire to the state of Texas designated for the education of Texas youth. It is set up to be limitless funds that will not run out and can’t be outspent. 
In that scenario would you support school choice? 
Kids and parents choosing their own school regardless of location, public or private, religious or not, whatever. 
Would you support the freedom to choose? 

I already support school choice--that is what ya'll (blanket statement) don't seem to understand. I just don't support the local property taxes being sent to other localities. I can't believe that is so hard for people to understand. If you work in Tyler, but live in Jacksonville, do you want to send your city taxes to the Tyler to pay for their police and fire--because that is where you work? And before you say that is NOT the same thing--it is. You are asking localities to give up their funds, because you might want Tyler to be safer--because you work there. 

As for gazillionaire Jett--he can choose what to do with his money--if he wants to set up vouchers for kids, that is his choice. 

But then again, right now, in Texas, all students have the choice to attend whatever school they want. It's just not getting paid for with Local property tax dollars. And as much as ya'll want it to happen, unless we go to a state income tax--local property taxes are here to stay. And even in Colorado where I lived, property taxes were not as high, but they had them along with a state income tax. So you got hammered twice. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, DannyZuco said:

I already support school choice--that is what ya'll (blanket statement) don't seem to understand. I just don't support the local property taxes being sent to other localities. I can't believe that is so hard for people to understand. If you work in Tyler, but live in Jacksonville, do you want to send your city taxes to the Tyler to pay for their police and fire--because that is where you work? And before you say that is NOT the same thing--it is. You are asking localities to give up their funds, because you might want Tyler to be safer--because you work there. 

As for gazillionaire Jett--he can choose what to do with his money--if he wants to set up vouchers for kids, that is his choice. 

But then again, right now, in Texas, all students have the choice to attend whatever school they want. It's just not getting paid for with Local property tax dollars. And as much as ya'll want it to happen, unless we go to a state income tax--local property taxes are here to stay. And even in Colorado where I lived, property taxes were not as high, but they had them along with a state income tax. So you got hammered twice. 

Ok, let’s move past your tax problem for a second. Just to be clear i understand the taxes 100%, but I’m trying to look forward to a better system and not focus what we gave today. 
 

Philanthropist Jett gives the state of Texas an infinite amount of money but it’s earmarked for public education.
 

Would you be in favor of each child in Texas being allowed to choose their school and their money from the state going with them? 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, trashyhound said:

Ok, let’s move past your tax problem for a second. Just to be clear i understand the taxes 100%, but I’m trying to look forward to a better system and not focus what we gave today. 
 

Philanthropist Jett gives the state of Texas an infinite amount of money but it’s earmarked for public education.
 

Would you be in favor of each child in Texas being allowed to choose their school and their money from the state going with them? 

I'm broke man

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...