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1 hour ago, MavGrad99 said:

https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/31380716/college-football-takeaways-2021-nfl-draft
 

Item in here most likely to get SDC fueled up is the fact that the B12 did not have a selection in the 1st round (maybe 2nd round either)

I don't know how to feel about the big12. On one hand the league is barely more than a midmajor in terms of nfl talent on the rosters. On the other hand several of the teams are very solid considering the lack of said talent on the rosters.   

Overall I think the league is filled with some very good coaches who get a lot out of the talent they have but are limited in their recruiting footprint and their scheme doesn't fit the nfl well outside of Qbs and WRs. 

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24 minutes ago, WETSU said:

I don't know how to feel about the big12. On one hand the league is barely more than a midmajor in terms of nfl talent on the rosters. On the other hand several of the teams are very solid considering the lack of said talent on the rosters.   

Overall I think the league is filled with some very good coaches who get a lot out of the talent they have but are limited in their recruiting footprint and their scheme doesn't fit the nfl well outside of Qbs and WRs. 

Good points. I also think, like players at all schools, too many guys leave early for that quick paycheck. In the past two years I can think of three Longhorns that had the opportunity to be a 1st rounder if they stayed another year. Joseph Ossai - actually surprised he was chosen in the 3rd round and could possibly be a huge steal for the Bengals. He would've entered 2021 as one of the top defensive players in the nation to keep an eye on. Caden Sterns - his best year was his freshman year mostly due to nagging injuries and some questionable coaching styles. Lil'Jordan Humphrey - could've made a heck of a TE if he would have stayed another year. He was a game changer in the slot that would've gotten a lot more attention had he stayed and had another year like his last at UT. 

I know these guys are told by outside people you can grind one more year in college for free and possibly ruin your career with a freak accident, or you can leave for the NFL and get paid while you grind it out. But that one extra year can literally mean millions for simply one more semester of school. It's hard to turn away six figures when you're 21-22 years old, but one more year and you could easily be making seven figures along with the extra money from commercials and advertising that comes with being a high draft pick.

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40 minutes ago, Lhornfan said:

Good points. I also think, like players at all schools, too many guys leave early for that quick paycheck. In the past two years I can think of three Longhorns that had the opportunity to be a 1st rounder if they stayed another year. Joseph Ossai - actually surprised he was chosen in the 3rd round and could possibly be a huge steal for the Bengals. He would've entered 2021 as one of the top defensive players in the nation to keep an eye on. Caden Sterns - his best year was his freshman year mostly due to nagging injuries and some questionable coaching styles. Lil'Jordan Humphrey - could've made a heck of a TE if he would have stayed another year. He was a game changer in the slot that would've gotten a lot more attention had he stayed and had another year like his last at UT. 

I know these guys are told by outside people you can grind one more year in college for free and possibly ruin your career with a freak accident, or you can leave for the NFL and get paid while you grind it out. But that one extra year can literally mean millions for simply one more semester of school. It's hard to turn away six figures when you're 21-22 years old, but one more year and you could easily be making seven figures along with the extra money from commercials and advertising that comes with being a high draft pick.

I wasn’t suprised at ossai going in the third.  His production was due more to scheming than his talent.  He’s still extremely raw, would’ve benefitted tremendously by another year.  Most longhorn fans would disagree with me because every year there’s guys that leave early that are fan proclaimed first rounders then fall in the draft.  Malik Jefferson, deshon Elliot, Holton Hill, LJH, etc....

 

 ossai is tweener, two slow for LB, too lean and underdeveloped talent wise for DE.

  Brennan Eagles is a moron, so was Caden sterns.  Good riddance to sterns though.  I was tired of seeing sterns out of position.  That wasn’t coaching.  
 

Texas has more players leave early for ufa contracts.  maybe sark can make a difference in developing personnel, but more important maybe he can make them see their own development or lack of and make the proper decisions moving forward.  
 

Texas won’t have a first rounder until Bijan Robinson leaves.

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How much did the ability to comeback for another year impact draft eligible players? I saw a stat that this years draft pool was far below the normal numbers. Will that correct itself next year when the draft pool floods with talent? 

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10 hours ago, Stoney said:

How much did the ability to comeback for another year impact draft eligible players? I saw a stat that this years draft pool was far below the normal numbers. Will that correct itself next year when the draft pool floods with talent? 

I don't think that impacted the BIg 12 numbers that much though. Maybe 3-4 Iowa State guys chose to come back that would have been drafted, but none of those guys were 1st round guys you would think? Maybe a team could have talked themselves into Brock Purdy in the 1st, who knows.

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I think some people over analyze things trying to grab something that makes them feel good about their team and the conference they belong to.  Just look at the round 1 picks.  Does 12 picks in the first round make the sec head and shoulders above the rest of the conferences.  Break that down further and you see that Bama accounted for half of those 12.  To me, that furthers the argument that the sec is typically top heavy.  Georgia and Florida fought it out for the East title, Florida had two and Georgia only had one first rounder, the same as South Carolina and Kentucky.  What does that tell us?  Absolutely nothing except those players were really good individuals and teams had needs those players filled.  
 

does the Big 12 not having a first rounder mean they are a mid major as Wet called it?  Absolutely not.  That’s a dumb idea.  In the 2nd round there were 4 Big12 draft picks.  Three OL and a safety.  Two OT’s were the 5th and 6th OT’s taken overall.  6 OT’s were taken in the top 50 picks showing how important the position is in the NFL.  If I’m not mistaken, the OU center was the third center picked, all of which were in the second round.   The TCU safety was the third safety taken, no safety in the first round drafted.  
 

I think the draft is indicative of individual talent, development, measurables, and nfl team needs more than anything.  You can take other things away from it as well, like Bama being THE dominant nfl player factory in the past decade, but most other things are minor details in the grad scheme of things. Bama develops players, but they start with the best to begin with.  Trying to formulate an opinion like wet stated about the Big12 from 32 picks in the draft is just dumb and grasping for something to hold onto 

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Here are some of my thoughts about it as a big consumer of Big 12 Football.

1. The league will never improve the overall national perception until Texas quits doing less with more. It is an absolute disaster that they have only had 3 first round draft picks in the last 12 years when they have an average recruiting class rank of 9 over the past 12 seasons. That is killing the league. 

2. The introduction of TCU into the Big 12 hurt Oklahoma State, Texas Tech, and Baylor (to a certain extent) in recruiting. Now instead of three teams fighting over the second tier talent pool in Texas the Big 12 elevated a 4th team to level of those three. 

3. The recruiting ranks mean a lot less when you have a QB. That has to be right to be competitive in the Big 12.

4. If you look at the positions that are valued in the 1st round of the NFL Draft it kind of makes sense at to why the Big 12 has struggled there. Pretty much every 1st round pick from the Big 12 has been a QB, OL, or WR. They just have not recruited the defensive talent at a high level for most of the past 12 years. I know that is changing at least for Oklahoma. 

5. Mike Gundy, Bill Snyder, and Matt Campbell still do not get enough credit for the results that they have produced.

6. I forgot how good Baylor was under Briles and they were on track to stay that way.

7. West Virginia has actually recruited better in the Big 12 than they did in the Big East. That surprised me.

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47 minutes ago, DB2point0 said:

I think some people over analyze things trying to grab something that makes them feel good about their team and the conference they belong to.  Just look at the round 1 picks.  Does 12 picks in the first round make the sec head and shoulders above the rest of the conferences.  Break that down further and you see that Bama accounted for half of those 12.  To me, that furthers the argument that the sec is typically top heavy.  Georgia and Florida fought it out for the East title, Florida had two and Georgia only had one first rounder, the same as South Carolina and Kentucky.  What does that tell us?  Absolutely nothing except those players were really good individuals and teams had needs those players filled.  
 

does the Big 12 not having a first rounder mean they are a mid major as Wet called it?  Absolutely not.  That’s a dumb idea.  In the 2nd round there were 4 Big12 draft picks.  Three OL and a safety.  Two OT’s were the 5th and 6th OT’s taken overall.  6 OT’s were taken in the top 50 picks showing how important the position is in the NFL.  If I’m not mistaken, the OU center was the third center picked, all of which were in the second round.   The TCU safety was the third safety taken, no safety in the first round drafted.  
 

I think the draft is indicative of individual talent, development, measurables, and nfl team needs more than anything.  You can take other things away from it as well, like Bama being THE dominant nfl player factory in the past decade, but most other things are minor details in the grad scheme of things. Bama develops players, but they start with the best to begin with.  Trying to formulate an opinion like wet stated about the Big12 from 32 picks in the draft is just dumb and grasping for something to hold onto 

Its not just about 1st rounders that makes them a mid major. They are weak in the draft as a whole. 

 

And what the draft really does IMO is prove talent level of teams. Is it really as impressive for OU to go 11-1 facing a handful of draft picks a year vs a georgia who faces 30-40 draft picks? I mean obviously we have different opinions on this and that's fine. I just think there's something to be said about the talent level and competition level is all. 

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42 minutes ago, Valhalla said:

Here are some of my thoughts about it as a big consumer of Big 12 Football.

1. The league will never improve the overall national perception until Texas quits doing less with more. It is an absolute disaster that they have only had 3 first round draft picks in the last 12 years when they have an average recruiting class rank of 9 over the past 12 seasons. That is killing the league. 

2. The introduction of TCU into the Big 12 hurt Oklahoma State, Texas Tech, and Baylor (to a certain extent) in recruiting. Now instead of three teams fighting over the second tier talent pool in Texas the Big 12 elevated a 4th team to level of those three. 

3. The recruiting ranks mean a lot less when you have a QB. That has to be right to be competitive in the Big 12.

4. If you look at the positions that are valued in the 1st round of the NFL Draft it kind of makes sense at to why the Big 12 has struggled there. Pretty much every 1st round pick from the Big 12 has been a QB, OL, or WR. They just have not recruited the defensive talent at a high level for most of the past 12 years. I know that is changing at least for Oklahoma. 

5. Mike Gundy, Bill Snyder, and Matt Campbell still do not get enough credit for the results that they have produced.

6. I forgot how good Baylor was under Briles and they were on track to stay that way.

7. West Virginia has actually recruited better in the Big 12 than they did in the Big East. That surprised me.

I agree with a lot of this and said so earlier. The coaching in the league outside of Texas has been outstanding all things considered. 

The one thing I disagree with is the QB part. There's much more than just qb play that factors in. Although I do think qb play has a much larger impact in the big 12 simply because the defensive talent isn't as deep. 

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1 hour ago, Valhalla said:

Here are some of my thoughts about it as a big consumer of Big 12 Football.

1. The league will never improve the overall national perception until Texas quits doing less with more. It is an absolute disaster that they have only had 3 first round draft picks in the last 12 years when they have an average recruiting class rank of 9 over the past 12 seasons. That is killing the league. 

2. The introduction of TCU into the Big 12 hurt Oklahoma State, Texas Tech, and Baylor (to a certain extent) in recruiting. Now instead of three teams fighting over the second tier talent pool in Texas the Big 12 elevated a 4th team to level of those three. 

3. The recruiting ranks mean a lot less when you have a QB. That has to be right to be competitive in the Big 12.

4. If you look at the positions that are valued in the 1st round of the NFL Draft it kind of makes sense at to why the Big 12 has struggled there. Pretty much every 1st round pick from the Big 12 has been a QB, OL, or WR. They just have not recruited the defensive talent at a high level for most of the past 12 years. I know that is changing at least for Oklahoma. 

5. Mike Gundy, Bill Snyder, and Matt Campbell still do not get enough credit for the results that they have produced.

6. I forgot how good Baylor was under Briles and they were on track to stay that way.

7. West Virginia has actually recruited better in the Big 12 than they did in the Big East. That surprised me.

All very good thoughts. +1

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2 minutes ago, LOL said:

Good stuff. I converted it to images for you: 

Valhalla-s-draft-stats-1.jpg

Valhalla-s-draft-stats-2.jpg

I would like to see this done for all the power 5 conferences over this span. I'm too lazy, but it would be a critical talking point in this conversation. It would also allow us us to get a better idea of how top heavy the sec is as was mentioned earlier. 

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2 hours ago, Valhalla said:

 

5. Mike Gundy, Bill Snyder, and Matt Campbell still do not get enough credit for the results that they have produced.

 

If they ever build a Mt. Rushmore of college coaches they darn well better put Bill Snyder on there. What he did at K State is almost impressive as what Saban’s doing at Bama. Bama is Bama. K State was a JV B team until Snyder got there.

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1 hour ago, WETSU said:

I would like to see this done for all the power 5 conferences over this span. I'm too lazy, but it would be a critical talking point in this conversation. It would also allow us us to get a better idea of how top heavy the sec is as was mentioned earlier. 

Working on the SEC next.

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14 minutes ago, Stoney said:

If they ever build a Mt. Rushmore of college coaches they darn well better put Bill Snyder on there. What he did at K State is almost impressive as what Saban’s doing at Bama. Bama is Bama. K State was a JV B team until Snyder got there.

Yep, didn't they actually have like an NCAA record losing streak before he came there?

I remember during the 70s-80s it seemed like OU routinely beat them by an average of 50 points. It was never even a contest. Snyder comes in around 1989 and the margin of victory narrows each year until, suddenly, KSU starts putting it on OU on the regular. While we still had the upper hand through the Stoops years, on more than one occasion the Purple Wizard showed himself to be the true master. 

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Here is the SEC (minus recruiting rankings)

SEC_2010-2021.xlsx

 

Obviously Alabama is in a league of their own. They carry a lot of the weight in the SEC to no surprise. 2nd tier behind them is LSU and Georgia, while everyone else is the conference after that is pretty much on even ground I would say.

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2 hours ago, WETSU said:

I would like to see this done for all the power 5 conferences over this span. I'm too lazy, but it would be a critical talking point in this conversation. It would also allow us us to get a better idea of how top heavy the sec is as was mentioned earlier. 

Sec had 68 drafted.  42 came from 5 teams (Fla 9, LSU 7, Bama 10, UGa 10, Kentucky 6).  26 came from 10 teams with Missouri and auburn having 5.  
 

i be do agree that the big difference is styles of football played.  The big 12 will put less defensive players in the NFL.  

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41 minutes ago, ETXfan16 said:

Here is the SEC (minus recruiting rankings)

SEC_2010-2021.xlsx 13.19 kB · 0 downloads

 

Obviously Alabama is in a league of their own. They carry a lot of the weight in the SEC to no surprise. 2nd tier behind them is LSU and Georgia, while everyone else is the conference after that is pretty much on even ground I would say.

Valhalla-s-draft-stats

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42 minutes ago, DB2point0 said:

Sec had 68 drafted.  42 came from 5 teams (Fla 9, LSU 7, Bama 10, UGa 10, Kentucky 6).  26 came from 10 teams with Missouri and auburn having 5.  
 

i be do agree that the big difference is styles of football played.  The big 12 will put less defensive players in the NFL.  

I don't count just one season. There are plenty of teams with tons of nfl talent thats young and didnt leave. This argument only makes sense if you factor an extended period of time. 

Based off of what was provided above, 

 

The big 12 puts out an average of 2.3 players per team per year into the nfl draft. The sec without bama puts out 3.2 per team per year. Now I'm not sure why we keep talking about bama making the conference top heavy when OU is also nearly twice as much as the closest team but I counted them in just to make you guys feel better lol. 

 

All in all its been touched above but it boils down to this. The SEC is the most athletic conference player for player. Where the average big 12 team has 9 NFL players per average on the roster (4 years worth of players) the average sec team has 13. Does that mean the sec teams are "better" of course not always. Like I've said the Big12 does a great job with lower end talent and getting the most of it. Their coaches might be better Xs and Os guys while the sec relies on out athleting you a lot. These are not knocks on either conference or riding bama coattails or anything. Its just the facts and the numbers show this. 

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34 minutes ago, WETSU said:

All in all its been touched above but it boils down to this. The SEC is the most athletic conference player for player. Where the average big 12 team has 9 NFL players per average on the roster (4 years worth of players) the average sec team has 13. Does that mean the sec teams are "better" of course not always. Like I've said the Big12 does a great job with lower end talent and getting the most of it. Their coaches might be better Xs and Os guys while the sec relies on out athleting you a lot. These are not knocks on either conference or riding bama coattails or anything. Its just the facts and the numbers show this. 

I'm not sure that point has ever been in debate. In fact, I would argue SEC overall has always (in modern era) had the most athletic talent. Due almost entirely to the culture surrounding the conference historically. 

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