Evolution, Creationism, or both????

[woodgie07]

Originally posted by FatManStomp

Where do i stand in this dicussion? with Woodgie:thumbsup:

 

I'm glad someone agrees with me...

[jasonattsu]

Originally posted by oldsot

The medical community uses similar technology to detect and treat cancer, that having been said, do you question the legitimacy of such cancer treatments?

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:cat:

 

Hey oldie, hehehe, just to let you know, according to Paul Harvey, cancer is now the #1 killer of americans for the first time ever, with heart disease now #2.......so, lol, yes, we question the legitimacy of cancer treatments......:updown:

[jasonattsu]

Originally posted by strawberry66

Originally posted by JPure

oldsot-

 

How about human tracks found with dinosaur tracks (in Texas)?

 

Do a search for 'Burdick track' and see what you find.

 

On one website (www.bible.ca) there's even an interesting story about some upset evolutionists that destroyed some human tracks after a conference where they were presented as evidence for creation.

 

:guitar:

 

Scientists have investigated several sites with human footprints in rock strata that contain fossils from ages evolutionists believe are older than the emergence of man. One interesting and controversial example is the Paluxy River fossils near Glen Rose, Texas. Creationists are divided on the value of this find, the history of which goes back to its discovery after a mudslide devastated the area in 1908.

 

Here, dinosaur footprints exist alongside what appear to be human footprints in the same strata. There are human tracks crossing dinosaur tracks, and dinosaur tracks that have blocked out human tracks in sequence. Investigators excavated some tracks out of the rock strata, and cross-sectioned them. They showed a compressed layer pattern that indicated that they were genuine, not carvings. Evolutionists who investigate the tracks insist that they are from an upright bipedal dinosaur. As the tracks have eroded over the years, they appear more dinosaur-like with age. Scientists from the Institute for Creation Research have decided to abandon using these tracks for evidence that dinosaurs were contemporary with humans, and removed references to the Paluxy prints from their literature. Remember as well, the prints were found by a creationist.

 

You can find a short segment on this "incident" at the Paluxy in the TLC special "Mysterious Origins of Man" hosted by Charlton Heston.......The prints were not eroded away, they were destroyed by vandals.....(how convenient).......in the segment, you can see a crew using demolition machines to remove layers of limestone to get to the level of the footprints, because both sets of tracks disappeared into a limestone outcropping.......the "human" footprints, and dinosaur footprints BOTH continued under the rock ledge after the outcropping was removed.......that to me is hard evidence that CANNOT be proven false.....

[jasonattsu]

And then of course there is always Tiahuanaco.........anyone wanna tackle this mystery???

[JPure]

FatManStomp & Woodgie07-

 

Both Peter and Paul in the New Testament are quoted as saying that we as Christians are to be knowledgable and defend the faith against every human intellectual attack. There is a lot of good science out now that confirms creation as Moses penned in Genesis through God's inspiration.

 

Now, considering the Bible flawed because it was written by man. In the Old Testament God used/spoke through judges, kings, and prophets when He wanted to communicate to His people or a particular person. The judges, kings, and prophets were all ordinary men, right? So, if He could speak through them and what was foretold came true then this proves that God can communicate through sinful man, right?

 

In the New Testament it says that prophecy is one of the spiritual gifts that God bestows on certain believers. It also says to watch out for false prophets. It says the way that you can tell the difference is that if what they say does not come true or if it contradicts truth (the Bible) then that prophet is a false prophet. Now, apply that same litmus test to the prophecies concerning Jesus in the Old Testament. They were all fulfilled exactly as they were written hundreds of years before Jesus' birth, right? Therefore, using our false prophet litmus test leads us to conclude that what is in the Old Testament concerning Jesus must be truth, right? Apply the same false prophet litmus test to Jesus' words in the New Testament. Some examples of Jesus' prophecies from the New Testament include predicting his own death on a cross, his resurrection, and even the total destruction of the Jewish Temple which seemed unfathomable at the time. All of those came true.

 

Have prophecies from the O.T. and N.T. proven to be true? Has God used man to communicate to people in the past (judges, kings, and prophets)? Then why couldn't He have spoken truth to men in order to form the Bible?If you truly want to show the flawed nature of the Bible then you must show a prophetic passage or some other wisdom or truth that has proven not to be true. We, as Christians (dedicated, educated followers of Jesus Christ) are commanded to defend the faith. If we can't depend on the truth of God's word, then how are we supposed to defend the faith against every attack? Jesus said, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." He is THE only way to the Father and we must defend that truth and tell others. When questioned about the Bible, creation, and Jesus' life we are to give educated answers. The answers are in His word because His word is true. If you believe His word is flawed then how can you righteously defend it or Him? Again, show me a prophecy or supposed truth that has not proven to be true.

[LazyGolfer]

Wow.....JPure..youre now the greatest guy i know.:)

[couldbeliftin]

Here's a thought for you.

 

Darwin himself denounced the possiblity of evolution to to the complexity of many beings. He said , ...take the human eye for example, it is so complex that there is no way it could have evolved from a single celled organism... (this has been paraphrased due to my lack of intelligence).

As far as the pure defenition of evolution. Genetic traits that have adapted to meet environmental needs, and then have been passed down from generation to generation over many years (once again paraphrased). That is like saying, If I move to Mexico my children marry white people from Mexico, and so on, and so forth for the next fifteen generations my decendants will have dark brown complexions. I don't think so.

Why do we limit the power of God? I'll tell you why, because everyone including myself are so stupid compared to him we can not fathom his abilities. He spoke the world into existance in 6 days. Yes the Bible says he created Adam and Eve (not Adam and Steve), does it also have to say that he created Juan, Tyrus, Clint, Biff, and every one else to believe he did?

Here's my take on it. The Bible is a compilation of books, 66 to be exact. In those books we have stories about life. God gave these stories to men to write them down (no he didn't need the help). God could have done things many different ways, but he didn't. And as we pitiful excuses for grey matter (brains) try to figure things out, all we do is end up confusing ourselves even more.

[woodgie07]

JPure:

I understand that your religion teaches you to be curious, which is many cases is a good thing. I'm sorry if what I say implies something else. However, I am not attacking your faith. I also think we're entitled to our own opinion and that there is no need to repeatedly make the same argument saying that the Bible supports your claim over and over again.

[FatManStomp]

also a lot of times people would say, in this specific time, that they were sent by God but only because they were greedy and power hungry. Now im not doubting that some of the prophets were true but a lot were corrupt. Before you attack me though i would like to point out that i have not said that the prophets in the Bible were false, so if you even think of mentioning that i meant it this way you are a total idiot.

 

i dont remember eveything but in the 90's wasn't there some guy who claimed he was Jesus? so according to what you said, if all prophets who claim to be from God are Honest, then this guy really was Jesus?

 

So before you get ants in your pants and use the same excuse you used before, and before that, not all of the Bible can be True, it contridicts itself. there are some of the Books of the Bible that were taken out by English Kings.

 

And whose to say that it wasn't messed up during it's first translation?

 

I am a Christian, I belive in Jesus, Heaven, and God. i dont hve to put that much stock in the Bible (which i still believe is mostly true) because i have faith.

 

So try not to be all knowing and see it from my point of view.

[JPure]

Alright guys, I am sorry if I come off as all-knowing. However, this topic concerning the Bible is very important to me. I believe that in order to grow as a Christian a person has to be studying God's word and praying to Him daily. By doing so I believe we grow in spiritual, godly knowledge and wisdom and become more aware of our own faults and sins. Then, if we repent and turn to Him, we become more like the person that He created us to be (more like Jesus). I also see it as a life-long process because we cannot ofcourse achieve perfection. Therefore, if you are attacking the validity of the Bible then you are encouraging people to not take it seriously. We have a serious problem within all of our churches because people are missing the personal love relationship with God that is made available after salvation. Too many have been brought to salvation and then left stranded as if they got their ticket to Heaven and the game is over. Salvation is only the beginning and I believe that spiritual growth and maturation are impossible without His Word. That is why I continue to defend this argument. I have too many friends that are suffering through broken marriages and divorces because they never grew spiritually and never became the spiritual leaders of their families. I don't mean to come off as all-knowing but I am not going to stop standing up for what I know is true.

[Aggie2008]

I believe in the Bible insomuch that it is the Word of God. However, I share the belief of fatmanstomp that mankind has been messing it up and misinterpreting it for ages. I take the Bible seriously, but I read it for clarification...not justification. What all this debate about the Bible is proving is that God sent the Word to man as a guide but also to humble us into realizing that He is right and the rest of us so-called 'biblical experts' are just guessing. As a clarification, I believe that faith is what saves us. Faith is demonstrated by works and faith is strengthened by God through the Holy Spirit. A lot of churches preach the 'believe' and be saved Gospel (especially a lot of Baptist churches), but 'belief' doesn't get you anywhere. faith is the key. And true faith is demonstrated by action. So all of these people who have been 'saved' and have gone to the wayside, as you say, must not have had much faith to begin with, just belief. Faith is found in the prophets and in the disciples and in the acts of the saints, as demonstrated in the stories of the Bible. Is the Bible perfect? In a human sense, no. But in a God sense, yes.

[JPure]

Aggie2008-

 

I too believe that Jesus is primary and the Bible is secondary. I also believe that many will be left behind that thought they had their ticket punched. I like what you said about the difference between faith and belief. Heck, if even Satan 'believes' in God, then where is mere belief going to get us. Faith without works is dead. But, works without a relationship with God is also dead. The relationship guides you into the works that He wants you involved in.

 

I do still believe we have to defend the validity of the Bible because it is the primary tool for spiritual maturation. Without it, you and I could not have even written these last two posts with any certainty.