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Catholic church admits parts of the Holy Bible aren't true

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sppunk

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My apologies for those who couldn't get the link to work. Here's the story:

 

Times Online

October 05, 2005

 

The Bible: what is it good for?

 

The Roman Catholic Church has instructed the faithful that some parts of the Bible are not actually true, and that they should not expect 'total accuracy' in Scripture. What do you look for when you read the Bible? Do you swear by it? Read the article and send us your views using the form below

 

 

Overall, the Bible gives us a guide to live by. It gives and substantiates the hope we all need for an afterlife. Do good to them that persecute you; turn the other cheek; the ten commandments; love thy neighbor as thyself, etc. There has to be inaccuracies and any thinking person will realise that. Unfortunately, there are those who take the Bible literally, "handle snakes" to prove their faith, and feel anyone who doesn't agree with their interpretation is wrong and is going to Hell. Robert Westmoreland, Mt Dora, Florida

 

How arrogant can Man get? To decide which parts of God's word are true and which are not beggar's belief! Because the links between the different parts of Scripture make them dependent upon one another, it means that either it is all true, or it is all lies. We cannot have it any other way. Interestingly, Jesus Christ clearly taught that it was all true - so they are saying that God Himself is wrong! Dominic Stockford, Teddington

 

This is joke right? I may not consider myself Christian, or even really believe that the Bible is a novel based on real events, but I do believe that people have faith in the Bible and that it is not for one person (or a group of people) to say what is right and what is not. I believe that the stories are not always literal, but they are stories that invoke thought in us and encourage us to learn lessons. But just because that is what I think doesn’t mean I am going to tell all Christians to believe it. Chris Carr, Gosport

 

The Latter-day Saints have an interesting perspective: "We believe that the Bible is true as far as it is translated correctly" (Joseph Smith). This takes into account the fact that it has been through numerous translations and interpretations since its inception. Of course it is not in exactly the same form as when it was first written. But that does not mean it is irrelevant. If we approach the Bible with a sincere intention to know the will of God, then we will qualify for assistance from Him to understand it. It is when man has tried to impose his limited interpretations on God's word that so many errors and confusion have occurred. Gareth Wretham, Leamington Spa

 

I fear that Ruth Gledhill has muddied the waters by her article in today's Times. I have not had an opportunity to read the latest document from the Catholic bishops but equating the word "fact" with "truth" is a very unsubtle and naive use of language. The Catholic Church has never regarded the Bible in the same way as the Protestant Reformers - but that is a very different thing from saying that it is not the inspired word of God. To say that the Catholic Church now believes that Genesis is "untrue" (as the article says) is to miss the whole point: that the Bible consists of many different types of writing, each one of which is to be understood in its own category. The category of Genesis is not modern cosmology - but that does not mean it is "untrue". One has only to think of Cole Porter's song: "You're the Tops" "... you're the Coliseum ... you're the Louvre Museum ... you're the melody of a symphony by Strauss....etc, etc". True or untrue? Alice J. McCabe, Doncaster

 

We're getting closer. Perhaps a mere 2,000 years more and the Church will have caught up with ideas of rational thought. And from there it should be no time at all before our brave Christian soldiers stop crusading against our unholy enemy combatants. Steven McCowan, Miami, Florida

 

The Bible was inspired by God but not dictated word for word by Him. Genesis reflects the understanding of the writers who did not, a thousand years before Christ, have a Hubble telescope to search the heavens. Joseph Collison, Danielson, Connecticut

 

The Bible is a collection of stories, some based on historical events, some based on visions of true believers, and some pure fiction, chosen to promulgate a belief that the Hebrew people were God's chosen race and the progenitors of the Messiah. Take it for what it's worth. Douglas Shands, Austin, Texas

 

In reading the article regarding the Catholic bishops' declaration on the Bible, I was confused. If they are able to say this bit is OK and that bit is not OK, who is to say who is right? Rhys Morgan, Glannau Dyfrdwy, Wales

 

Simply amazing. Next the Catholic Church will be recalling all of their parishioners' Bibles and reissuing ones written in pencil. This way, their followers can just erase parts that the Church can't explain. Don't they believe this is the word of God? I guess they know better. Anthony Shamoun, Novi, Michigan

 

So, Catholicism is now to be replaced by institutional liberalism, the new "virtual" religion. You couldn't make it up. Terry Daly, London

 

True Christians will continue to hold on to the truths of the Bible. The challenge, however, remains the manner of interpretation, literally or through in depth studies assisted by the Holy Spirit. The points raised by the Catholic bishops are not new. Ditto the misinterpretation of the Bible for selfish or mischievous purposes. Remember that it was even used to justify colonialism, while "the protestant ethic and the spirit of capitalism" was read by most of us in the universities. However, the truth still remains that it is the word of God. In it lies some eternal truths which have prevailed over time and provided succour to people in need of salvation for their souls. William Akuluono, Barnet

 

The role of bishops is to hand down the Deposit of Faith given by Christ and His apostles. Quite frankly, the UK Bishops have no authority whatsoever to say what is true and what is not: they weren't there when the Bible was written so they wouldn't know. The Fathers of the Church, St Augustine, Jerome, etc, certainly took a different view: they found nothing false in the Bible and found inconsistencies could be explained if examined. I'll still continue to consult them: after all, they were experts in the language of the Bible and lived closer in time to the events described. Ciaran ryan, Brisbane, Australia

 

As an atheist I am intrigued that the Catholic Church is apparently bowing to reason and discarding some of its central doctrines with regard to Biblical literalism. Hopefully, this may take some of the wind out of the sails of creationists and other fundamentalists, if they are still capable of listening to the voice of moderation. Having been obliged at last to make these concessions, I wonder how much longer it will take for the virgin birth, the divinity of Christ and the resurrection also to be conceded as "symbolic". Then what future for the raison d'être of the Church itself, except maybe as a charitable institution? Reginald le Sueur, Jersey

 

Biblical scholarship has come a long way and none of what has been quoted as being said in "The Gift of Scripture" is in any way at odds with the Roman Catholic Church. Ruth Gledhill's article fails to take account of the Church's understanding of myth, truth and fallacy, and uses the term "untrue" misleadingly. I am troubled by this article, which reports as new something that has been the teaching of the Roman Catholic Church and most mainstream churches for some time. I am almost expecting a similar article next week, with the headline: "Catholic Church rejects flat-Earth theory". Michael Astley, Manchester

 

I am amazed that it has taken this long for the Roman Catholic Church to admit that the Bible is not historically accurate. It is time that we move away from this increasingly fundamental type of Christianity, and returned to an open and honest debate about Biblical literature and its use. Kerry Walker, Birmingham

 

A sensible article by Ruth Gledhill is wrecked - yet again? - by a populist headline declaring that the hierarchy is no longer "swearing by the truth of the Bible". This would have been substantially avoided had the word "literal" been introduced before "truth". It would, of course, have meant that the article would have appeared much less sensational in reporting the broadly secure findings of a hundred years of biblical scholarship. The Rev David Hares, Norwich, Norfolk

 

It amazes me that this story should be seen as news. Christians of all kinds have always insisted that the Bible contains different kinds of literature, some to be read literally, some not. The only debate is about which is which. For your article to label some biblical claims as "true" and others "untrue" is to miss the point entirely. The question is: what kind of truth is being expressed? The only people who imagine simplistically that it is possible to read the entire Bible literally are those who never read it. Even redneck fundamentalists are more aware of the realities than that! John Allan, Exeter

 

Could Ruth Gledhill point out exactly how Galileo's discovery about the solar system brings down the doctrine of inspiration of Scripture? It is worth noting that in the countries where the Reformation had taken root, where the Bible was read more broadly by ordinary people, such ideas were embraced much more readily. Galileo didn't threaten Biblical ideas, but the Platonic world view that the Roman Church was tied to at the time. Darren Moore, Tranmere

 

If we do not want to lower ourselves to the same level as the terrorists that we condemn, then we should accept writings that date back thousands of years for what they really are: the reflection of the way people looked at the world at that time. Edgard Adriaens, Ninove, Belgium

 

As a Roman Catholic, I find the Church's approach to the Bible refreshing and correct. Most educated religious individuals acknowledge that there are two aspects to religion, logos and mythos. The importance of these is not to blur the lines but understand what each represents and why. Hopefully the guidance now given will be heeded. I am sure my Jewish girlfriend will be relieved to read the fresh insight towards Jews. Gregory Irgin, London

 

It is comments like these that make us thank God more and more for the Protestant Reformation in the 16th century. It is funny how the scientific establishment often plays catch-up with the Bible. All sorts of "recent scientific discoveries" are found there. Forget Darwin. Forget Rome. Read your Bible. It'll do you the power of good! Colin Maxwell, Cork, Republic of Ireland

 

This is not really a significant change for the Church in terms of beliefs. The previous Pope often spoke of the deep meaning in the story of Genesis, (such as here), without any need to adhere to over simplified interpretations that effectively assume man's creation to be equivalent to the process of making a snowman. It must be a good thing to stand up in the face of so many of the new evangelical movements in the US that make Christianity look like something for people not interested in the truth, which is in fact its antithesis. Simon Adams, Weybridge

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Runner4Life Regular

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the article is this.... i got it to work but haven't read it yet..

 

 

Catholic Church no longer swears by truth of the Bible

By Ruth Gledhill, Religion Correspondent

 

 

 

THE hierarchy of the Roman Catholic Church has published a teaching document instructing the faithful that some parts of the Bible are not actually true.

 

 

 

The Catholic bishops of England, Wales and Scotland are warning their five million worshippers, as well as any others drawn to the study of scripture, that they should not expect “total accuracy” from the Bible.

 

“We should not expect to find in Scripture full scientific accuracy or complete historical precision,” they say in The Gift of Scripture.

 

The document is timely, coming as it does amid the rise of the religious Right, in particular in the US.

 

Some Christians want a literal interpretation of the story of creation, as told in Genesis, taught alongside Darwin’s theory of evolution in schools, believing “intelligent design” to be an equally plausible theory of how the world began.

 

But the first 11 chapters of Genesis, in which two different and at times conflicting stories of creation are told, are among those that this country’s Catholic bishops insist cannot be “historical”. At most, they say, they may contain “historical traces”.

 

The document shows how far the Catholic Church has come since the 17th century, when Galileo was condemned as a heretic for flouting a near-universal belief in the divine inspiration of the Bible by advocating the Copernican view of the solar system. Only a century ago, Pope Pius X condemned Modernist Catholic scholars who adapted historical-critical methods of analysing ancient literature to the Bible.

 

In the document, the bishops acknowledge their debt to biblical scholars. They say the Bible must be approached in the knowledge that it is “God’s word expressed in human language” and that proper acknowledgement should be given both to the word of God and its human dimensions.

 

They say the Church must offer the gospel in ways “appropriate to changing times, intelligible and attractive to our contemporaries”.

 

The Bible is true in passages relating to human salvation, they say, but continue: “We should not expect total accuracy from the Bible in other, secular matters.”

 

They go on to condemn fundamentalism for its “intransigent intolerance” and to warn of “significant dangers” involved in a fundamentalist approach.

 

“Such an approach is dangerous, for example, when people of one nation or group see in the Bible a mandate for their own superiority, and even consider themselves permitted by the Bible to use violence against others.”

 

Of the notorious anti-Jewish curse in Matthew 27:25, “His blood be on us and on our children”, a passage used to justify centuries of anti-Semitism, the bishops say these and other words must never be used again as a pretext to treat Jewish people with contempt. Describing this passage as an example of dramatic exaggeration, the bishops say they have had “tragic consequences” in encouraging hatred and persecution. “The attitudes and language of first-century quarrels between Jews and Jewish Christians should never again be emulated in relations between Jews and Christians.”

 

As examples of passages not to be taken literally, the bishops cite the early chapters of Genesis, comparing them with early creation legends from other cultures, especially from the ancient East. The bishops say it is clear that the primary purpose of these chapters was to provide religious teaching and that they could not be described as historical writing.

 

Similarly, they refute the apocalyptic prophecies of Revelation, the last book of the Christian Bible, in which the writer describes the work of the risen Jesus, the death of the Beast and the wedding feast of Christ the Lamb.

 

The bishops say: “Such symbolic language must be respected for what it is, and is not to be interpreted literally. We should not expect to discover in this book details about the end of the world, about how many will be saved and about when the end will come.”

 

In their foreword to the teaching document, the two most senior Catholics of the land, Cardinal Cormac Murphy-O’Connor, Archbishop of Westminster, and Cardinal Keith O’Brien, Archbishop of St Andrew’s and Edinburgh, explain its context.

 

They say people today are searching for what is worthwhile, what has real value, what can be trusted and what is really true.

 

The new teaching has been issued as part of the 40th anniversary celebrations of Dei Verbum, the Second Vatican Council document explaining the place of Scripture in revelation. In the past 40 years, Catholics have learnt more than ever before to cherish the Bible. “We have rediscovered the Bible as a precious treasure, both ancient and ever new.”

 

A Christian charity is sending a film about the Christmas story to every primary school in Britain after hearing of a young boy who asked his teacher why Mary and Joseph had named their baby after a swear word. The Breakout Trust raised £200,000 to make the 30-minute animated film, It’s a Boy. Steve Legg, head of the charity, said: “There are over 12 million children in the UK and only 756,000 of them go to church regularly.

 

That leaves a staggering number who are probably not receiving basic Christian teaching.”

 

BELIEVE IT OR NOT

 

UNTRUE

 

Genesis ii, 21-22

 

So the Lord God caused a deep sleep to fall upon the man, and while he slept he took one of his ribs and closed up its place with flesh; and the rib which the Lord God had taken from the man he made into a woman and brought her to the man

 

Genesis iii, 16

 

God said to the woman [after she was beguiled by the serpent]: “I will greatly multiply your pain in childbearing; in pain you shall bring forth children, yet your desire shall be for your husband, and he shall rule over you.”

 

 

Matthew xxvii, 25

 

The words of the crowd: “His blood be on us and on our children.”

 

 

Revelation xix,20

 

And the beast was captured, and with it the false prophet who in its presence had worked the signs by which he deceived those who had received the mark of the beast and those who worshipped its image. These two were thrown alive into the lake of fire that burns with brimstone.”

 

 

TRUE

 

Exodus iii, 14

 

God reveals himself to Moses as: “I am who I am.”

 

 

Leviticus xxvi,12

 

“I will be your God, and you shall be my people.”

 

 

Exodus xx,1-17

 

The Ten Commandments

 

Matthew v,7

 

The Sermon on the Mount

 

Mark viii,29

 

Peter declares Jesus to be the Christ

 

Luke i

 

The Virgin Birth

 

John xx,28

 

Proof of bodily resurrection

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bordertown Proficient

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First of all I have not seen anything to support the allegations of the Title of this thread. What I have seen are the interpretations of a group of Bishops from Great Britain which as mentioned in Sppunk article have no authority to speak for the whole Roman Catholic church. I must be pointed out the author of Sppunk's article is a professed athetist.

 

What is interesting is the class at my church last night was on the importance on the the traditional Christian beliefs since Christ's time on earth. Let give full disclosure, I am Episcopalian. For those that need help - it is the "Church of the Presidents". The National Cathedral in Washington is an Espicopal Church. As a denomination we are struggling with human sexuality as are many Christian denominations. A basic tenant of our denomination is the recognition of religious traditions over time (including our hertitage throught the Roman Catholic church). Every Episcoapal Priest can trace his ordination through the succession of bishops back to Peter. Does it make us better - no. But it explains our belief and reliance on tradition outside the scriptures, which were developed from the scriptures.

 

The truth I learned last night is the Christian Church is self healing over time. Time will return the faithful to the "truths" of the scriptures. That is comforting to know as my church struggles with human sexuality issues. For the non-believers that take comfort in the cracks in Christianity, I think you will be sorely disappointed. For those that at are taught the scriptures are all that matter, it is not a point worth arguing because each denomination relies on Christian traditions to some degree.

 

The Episcopal Church is a member of the Anglican Communion. When the Bishops of the Episcopal Church voted to recognize the ordination of a practicing homosexual, holy h-e-l-l broke out within the Episcopal Church and the Anglcan Communion. Many desenting bishops including the Diocese of Dallas have allow their parishes to divert funding to the national church organization. The basic reason is the belief the bishops broke from religious tradition. The heads of the Anglican churches have condemned the American church.

 

The Episcopal Church does not take a literal interuptation of the Bible. Genesis for example. The Anglican seminaries teach that the creation story is based upon "myths" passed down from early generations to the next until recorded by Jewish scholars. What is important are the truths of the creation story. Is it important to my faith whether God formed the earth and created man and rested in 7 days or 7 million years. No. The truth is we are a creation of God. Personally it matters not if God formed me from an ape. God created me.

 

The other truth is it is the non believers that attempt to destroy the beliefs of the believers. Good try but this one came up a zero.

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Aggie2008 Experienced

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This is why I despise theology. Do people have nothing better to do than go over and over scripture yet still miss the point of it all? Can't anyone see symbolism in anything?

 

There is a difference between believing the Bible is true and believing it is LITERAL. The Bible is full of analogy, symbolism and metaphors.

 

And boy I'm sure glad these guys decided to pick and choose what didn't fit with their ideas and threw it out. I don't understand why they decided to declare these parts of the Bible 'untrue'...they are obviously symbolism and were not meant to be taken literally in the first place.

 

The Bible as a document is remarkably historically accurate from an anthropological point of view. Nearly every battle, every king, every foreign land, and every tribe in the Old Testament have been proven by archeology.

 

Not only that, the books of Isaiah and Daniel were written over 500 years before Christ, yet managed to describe his life in great detail. Over 60 Old Testament prophesies were fulfilled in Christ. The specificity of some of them is even more remarkable.

 

The Bible as a theme is about God's relationship with his people. Most of the stuff we whine and cry about are not even important in the grand scheme of things.

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sppunk Rising Star

sppunk

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Originally posted by Tuscorora

Christianity , like most religiions is corrupted. It has been twisted and manipulated by powerful people to generate income, justify war and keep the mases under control.

That's because religion is man-made.

 

Everything man makes is failed and corrupt.

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sppunk Rising Star

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Originally posted by TxEaglecaller

Well seeing as God made man.how can we say what God makes is without blemish?

Well, to God's credit, he's repeatedly tried to kill us.

 

But humans are like cockroaches - we won't ever go away.

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