Guest Posted October 27, 2005 Share Posted October 27, 2005 Well the White Sox should be very thankful tonight..... #1 - Thanks to the umpires for repeated bad calls throughout the playoffs. #2 - Thanks to Bud Selig for forcing the roof closed in the WS and the scheduling to line up for a matchup with the fatigued LA Angels. #3 - Thanks to Carlos Beltran for being greedy. Think about it - Houston loses game 1 by two runs, game 2 by one run, game three by two runs in 14 innings and game 3 by 1-0 score. There is no doubt in my mind that this series would still be going on if Beltran was in Houston. But all that aside, I am happy for the White Sox. They did what it took to win the games and my hat is off to them. I would never have guessed that they would sweep the Astros, but they did and deserve all the credit for it. They were the better team and I think everybody has underestimated them this year. Who would have dreamed that a team could lose Magglio Ordonez, Carlos Lee & Frank Thomas and go on to be world champs? I love the game of baseball! Most of all, I'm glad the Yanks, Boston, Atlanta, etc. weren't in the WS! It's about time we had some new teams in there....next up is the Cubs and Rangers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sppunk Posted October 27, 2005 Share Posted October 27, 2005 Unless that roof could get hits with runners on base, it really has no affect whatsoever on a sweep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 27, 2005 Share Posted October 27, 2005 I agree that it didn't literally have an affect....however, you and I both know that when everybody made such a big deal about it, there was a phsycological defeat that took place before the first pitch was thrown in Houston. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sppunk Posted October 27, 2005 Share Posted October 27, 2005 Originally posted by Living4ChristI agree that it didn't literally have an affect....however, you and I both know that when everybody made such a big deal about it, there was a phsycological defeat that took place before the first pitch was thrown in Houston. Eh, I'd really hope the players didn't care about it being opened or closed. If the weather weren't a basically perfect 74ish, I could see it messing with some guys, but not then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRocky99 Posted October 27, 2005 Share Posted October 27, 2005 I am not sure that I agree with the Beltran comment. They had him last year, Jeff Kent, a semi-healthy Jeff Bagwell, and never reached the World Series. Would I have liked to have had his bat in an Astro Uniform? Sure, but it is just hard to say what impact it would have had on the entire season. He had an outstanding run last year in the playoffs, but really was kind of up an down during the regular season when he joined the Astros. Saying all of that, yeah, it would have been nice to have Beltran up with runners on base when other Astro hitters failed (miserably), but still I can't even say that the Astros would have been in the Series with him. By the way, I have read that Bud Selig is considering pushing for a new rule that wild card teams will only have one home game during the first round of league playoffs, and only 2 home games if they make it to the 2nd round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 28, 2005 Share Posted October 28, 2005 You are forgetting a guy named Andy Pettitte. He was the biggest difference for the Astros this year....along with the emergence of Ensberg, Lane and Tavarez. With those three guys stepping up their play along with a healthy Andy Pettitte, you are primed and ready to add one bat and beat the White Sox - or at least not get swept by them. I strongly disagree with Selig trying to give the wild card teams less home games. They already get one less and that is plenty. Think about this year....The Padres finish at 82-80. Let's say they surprise the Cards and play Houston. You are talking about giving the "division winner" 5 home games when their record is a good 7 games worse! The 89 wins for Houston was the least the wild card team has had in a while, too. Almost every year, you will have the wild card team in one or both leagues that is stronger than one of the division winners....especially the AL and NL West where there are only four teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FormerMav02 Posted October 28, 2005 Share Posted October 28, 2005 It's funny you mention the emergence of Taveras, when if Beltran were still in Houston, he would have spent the year in AAA...and he didn't look so good for the Mets this year, did he? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 28, 2005 Share Posted October 28, 2005 OK, let's go over this again. The only differences between this year and last year that were mentioned were losing Kent and Beltran along with a semi-healthy Bagwell. Now, Tavarez would have seen some big league action at some point and having Beltran would have added depth and power more than anything. Also, I subscribe to the theory that Beltran is not at all a fit in NY and that is a big part of the reason he had a down year. I think he was a perfect fit in Houston and I think last year he was feeding off of the Houston energy during his great playoff run. So, you have to recognize that Tavarez stepped up this year - albeit with near no power. However, I believe Beltran would have been a definite improvement, because his numbers would have been better with the Astros. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramsn03 Posted October 28, 2005 Share Posted October 28, 2005 I think they missed Kent more than Beltran, that could have been a one year run for Beltran. Kent has proven himself over a long career. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRocky99 Posted October 28, 2005 Share Posted October 28, 2005 Living, I have to agree with Ramsn03 and formermav. If the Astros would have signed Beltran, I do not think Tavares would have been on the Astro roster. PERHAPS in LF, but I am really not even certain if he would have gotten the opportunity. Personally, I am not big on Tavares. Although, he did play a very important role this year. I think he has to improve his pitch selection at the plate. I think he swings at way too many balls (usually low and outside), has to improve his defense, base running/stealing (has good speed, but really does not get good leads, etc), and has to try to figure out how to get some power at needed times (with him up, one out, and a man on 3rd, he needs to at least be able to hit a decent fly to the OF). I also agree with ramsn03 about Kent likely having a greater impact than Beltran would have had. Beltran did have a lousy year and you are correct, he probably was a better fit in Houston than in NY. Yet, Kent drives in 100 runs just about every year and will hit 25 - 30 HR. But then again, had the Astros signed Kent, Biggio goes to LF or CF and who knows how that would have worked out. I do agree very much about Pettitte though and when you think about Pete Munro being in that playoff rotation (and rotation after Pettitte got hurt really), he was a MAJOR reason the Astros had success this season. Now living, I totally agree about the Astros needing one more bat and felt that way even during the regular season. They certainly could have used one more (really about 4 more) in the World Series too. I think it will be very interesting to see what the Astros do or don't do this offseason. Bagwell is very much a question mark. If he comes back, then Berkman will go to LF and Burke and Luke Scott will be on the bench. If he does come back and is 100% (doubtful to me), then there is the bat that they need. If he doesn't come back or is not at 100%, then do the Astros go after another stick? If so, who is gonna get replaced? Clemens too is a big ?. If he doesn't come back, then do they get another starter? Astacio has not impressed me. Bagwell is due $17 mil this upcoming season and of course, Clemens got $18 last year. The Astros can buy out Bags for $7 mil, but I don't see that happening - PR nightmare for the Astros. Berkman is due big bucks, as is Pettitte and Oswalt. McLane has said he has about an $80 mil payroll as tops and those 5 guys are probably $60 mil or more of it. Should be an interesting off season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 29, 2005 Share Posted October 29, 2005 It will definitely be an interesting off season for a lot of teams. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on Kent vs. Beltran. I just don't think Kent was ever really comfortable in Houston, which is why he ran at the first chance had to get out of town. I don't know. I really don't keep up with Houston as much as the Rangers, but it seems to me that Beltran would have been a better long-term signing. Tavarez definitely has room to improve, but I think he will. It seems to me that he would have been in the outfield sharing time in the Lane/Burke/Berkman rotation....which of course means Berkman would be playing more first instead of Lamb. I know Tavarez certainly would not have played as much, but I think he would have been there for his speed. It's a moot point now on those guys, but the Astros definitely need to put "big bat" at the top of their Christmas wish list. I think Garciaparra would be a good buy. Everett's less than stellar postseason was a major problem, and I don't have a problem with getting rid of him. Garciaparra's recent injuries would surely make him sign somewhere for possibly a bargain basement price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hubbardjack Posted October 29, 2005 Share Posted October 29, 2005 That roof isn't the reason they went 0-17 with runners in scoring position during the last 2 games of the sweep.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarletonPride84 Posted November 2, 2005 Share Posted November 2, 2005 If Beltran was in the outfield and Jeff Bagwell was healthy Astros coulda won the series take that back no they wont theyll choke again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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