Is it possible to be a Christian and a Liberal??

[crossfire1407]

Just wanting some opinions. I think it is possible but highly unlikely. Most liberals who claim to be Christians well, as the great evagelist Oliver Green said "dont really know the Lord from a lizard." I dont see how you can. I mean the bible says one thing, and main line liberalism says another. They are like oil and water, they do not mix. And what i mean by Christian is not "I go to church or mass" or " I pray a lot" or " I believe there is a God somewhere" or "Jesus was a good person" If you believe with your heart that Jesus Christ is God in the form of a man, and came to earth to die for our sins, and he is the only way to God, thats what a True christian is. Sorry to get on that but i know people will say how dare you i am a proud liberal but i am a christian. Then you ask them When they were saved and they look at you with that "what?" look on their face. Anyway just want some good ol robust debate on this.

[Middle]

I always find it funny the amount of anger and hatred normally associated with Christian conservatives.

 

To answer your question, yes, a Christian can be liberal. Jesus was very liberal for his time, socially in the aspect of helping others and universal love and loyalty to fellow man. I don't mean liberal in the sense of "do what you want," I mean he would accept anyone who wanted guidance, no matter their walk of life. Plus one of the columns of Jesus's message is to forgive and to understand each other. It's all very touchy-feely stuff and could be considered "liberal."

 

I find it even harder to understand how Christians can conform to the current state of conservatives. Kill before being killed, hate gays, hate feminists, hate non-Christians, hate any government program to help anyone (if it means more taxes, which is pretty idiotic seeing the amount of money spent on fighting wars anyway).

 

In the same light, it would be hard for a true Christian to conform to the ideals of the current liberal norm. Complain and complain and then complain some more!

 

Overall, I think anyone would be hard pressed to mix something personal like religion with something corrupted and public like politics. But that's just me.

 

EDIT: Oh, and not everyone is a southern Baptist and needs to be "saved." Plenty of us are members of churches that have been around several times longer than the Baptist church before the whole "STAND UP AND BE SAVED" shtick came along. Some of us also didn't stray from the nest in order to be the ever-present and ever destructive "born-again."

 

The point of being a Christian is not whether your political opinions are liberal or conservative. It's about actions. Good actions. Long before the polarizing red herrings of morals and who the next group that can be labeled as the wicked will be, people won those not like them over with displays of good-will.

 

Living like a Christian and just simply being against things because of a literal interpretation of the Old Testament (Which Colmes has pointed out many a time has no authority over Christians) are two different things. You might believe in wellfare and allowing gays to marry, but if you're a great person who does everything to help your fellow man, how is that not Christian?

 

This is just my opinion though, as abrasive and disagreeable as it probably is ... I don't speak for anyone else but me!

[crossfire1407]

Dude Jesus said lest a man be born again he cannot see the Kindgom of Heaven. Not a Republican talking point either just what the bible says, you might want to read it.

[Lhornfan]

Originally posted by crossfire1407

Dude Jesus said lest a man be born again he cannot see the Kindgom of Heaven. Not a Republican talking point either just what the bible says, you might want to read it.

 

So you're telling me an infant that dies cannot see Heaven?

[Middle]

Originally posted by crossfire1407

Dude Jesus said lest a man be born again he cannot see the Kindgom of Heaven. Not a Republican talking point either just what the bible says, you might want to read it.

 

Believe me, I've read it plenty, and it was never literally. I took from it the important message of being a better person and helping others, not how to acquire my ticket into heaven.

 

But as I said, that's my perception on things. To me the message is more than just about my salvation, it's about the salvation of earth from humans destroying it and each other.

 

EDIT: And note I said conservative, not Republican. True republican ideals promote freedom of religion by way of keeping the government out of most everything. A discussion best for another thread, but the values of todays Republicans make me sick when I think about how things used to be just 20 years ago.

[KirtFalcon]

The liberal notion of "a woman's right to choose" to abort her unborn child totallly flies in the face of Christianity. :whistle:

[Straw]

Originally posted by KirtFalcon

The liberal notion of "a woman's right to choose" to abort her unborn child totallly flies in the face of Christianity. :whistle:

 

Your probably not supposed to have sex out of wedlock. Do non liberals do that?

[Aggie2008]

Originally posted by Lhornfan

So you're telling me an infant that dies cannot see Heaven?

 

I've struggled with that time and time again. According to a real interpretation of scripture, all of mankind is cursed through the sin of Adam and therefore all are born with a sinful nature. That may not be the cuddliest of answers but God is supreme and our opinions on the matter mean very little.

[HS1988]

In Mark 10:14, Christ said, Suffer the little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for such is the Kingdom of God. Now a lot of the Bible is difficult to understand. And a lot of folks believe different things regarding this. I for one think that Christ takes the infants into heaven, hence forbid them not: for such is the kingdom of God. Just my opinion and belief.

[HS1988]

Being a Christian is between the individual and God. Now I for one would certainly not say that a person is not a Cristian, or cant be a Christian. This in my opinion is tempting the Lord. I can not know some ones heart or soul other than my own. I do know that you can be a Democrat and not be a liberal. Another interesting question would be this, can you be a christian and be immoral? I do know that you can be moral and not christian.

[Lhornfan]

Originally posted by Aggie2008

 

I've struggled with that time and time again. According to a real interpretation of scripture, all of mankind is cursed through the sin of Adam and therefore all are born with a sinful nature. That may not be the cuddliest of answers but God is supreme and our opinions on the matter mean very little.

 

But what is the real interpretation? And if our opinions on the matter mean very little, then how in the world can the Bible be interpreted?

 

In other words, while one man is interpreting scripture in one church, another man is interpreting the same scripture a little different in another church. You might come back and say read the Bible for yourself, but it too is an interpretation. There is the Holy Bible, King James version and the new NIV - which is quite a bit different on many occasions. The history of the different christian affiliations is quite interesting. Basically it all started with one Christian religion and then branched off because someone did not agree with something and decided to start their own church. Now we have churches on every street corner it seems, and for some all it takes it the money to go down to the courthouse and get a license to preach. Scary stuff.

 

While I also believe we are all born through Original Sin, I also believe God will accept innocent victims into Heaven. Here's a question to ponder: Let's say a young child is never taught about Jesus, never attended any kind of church, no sign of Christianity in his home, his parents are good people, but they do not believe in God. Will God not allow the young child into Heaven if he dies before the age of being able to understand what is going on? I don't think so. We are all God's children.

[Bigbobby]

Originally posted by Lhornfan

 

 

While I also believe we are all born through Original Sin, I also believe God will accept innocent victims into Heaven. Here's a question to ponder: Let's say a young child is never taught about Jesus, never attended any kind of church, no sign of Christianity in his home, his parents are good people, but they do not believe in God. Will God not allow the young child into Heaven if he dies before the age of being able to understand what is going on? I don't think so. We are all God's children.

 

I understand what you are saying, but where in Scripture is that reasoning found. Aggie is simply giving a scriptural based response.

 

Do you agree there are things in scripture that are irreconicilable?

[DeuceChunker03]

I can't believe this is even a topic. I'm not even going to comment.

[Middle]

You shouldn't be a good person because it will get you into heaven. You should be a good person because it is the right thing to do.

[Lhornfan]

Originally posted by Bigbobby

God will accept innocent victims into Heaven

There is no scripture that specifically states this. Therefore, it is a mystery. Does the child go to Hell or is he in limbo? Reading scripture, we see the kindness and mercy of Jesus. I would expect that God would have mercy on these children and welcome them into Heaven.

[ParanoidAndroid]

Originally posted by DeuceChunker03

I can't believe this is even a topic. I'm not even going to comment.

 

Ha. I will. For anyone to even ask this question suggests that one is ignorant of either Christianity or politics. Maybe even both.

[Guest bleedsbluengold24]

Originally posted by Middle

You shouldn't be a good person because it will get you into heaven. You should be a good person because it is the right thing to do.

 

Being a good person won't get you into heaven. John 14:6 tells us that Jesus said, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father but by me."

 

Not trying to force my beliefs on anyone, but if you believe the Bible to be the Word of God, then you must base your beliefs on heaven on scripture and not on personal belief or emotion. Nowhere in the New Testament does it teach that being a good person will get you into heaven.

 

Can a person be a liberal and a Christian? I would suspect a person who is a liberal is less likely to base his beliefs on scripture and more on personal feelings.

 

The very definition of liberal at least politically, is that a person takes a liberal view of the law of the land. A liberal believes the Constitution is a live document that can be interpretted to meet individual circumstances. With that thought, anything is up for grabs. Nothing is solid. Nothing is concrete. If a person is also a liberal in his/her spiritual beliefs, then there is also nothing solid in his/her belief system. Each situation stands on its on merit and is available for justification.

[crossfire1407]

Originally posted by bleedsbluengold24

If a person is also a liberal in his/her spiritual beliefs, then there is also nothing solid in his/her belief system

Finally someone who gets it. All this talk about being a "good person" is not what im talking about. Im talking about being saved. People like the middle want to label that as the thinking of a bunch of dumb old snake handlers but thats what the Bible says. Good works mean nothing to God. Our righteousness are as filthy rags to him. Nothing we do ourselves can justify ourselves before a holy God. We must accept his son's sacrifice and Go from there. Now if someones reads the bible it takes a pretty clear stance on typical liberal/conservative issues/ Abortion, Homosexuality, Death Penalty, Sex, free will/personal responsibilty, absolute morals and so on. Notice i didnt say Democrat. I said liberal. I know of some Christian democrats. Zell Miller, Ben Nelson are good examples. Just men who have a blind alleigance to their party yet go against the mainline. Theres a lot of Republicans that fit that mold in the reverse. (I.E. Arlen Specter, Lincoln Chaffee)

Originally posted by Middle

the values of todays Republicans make me sick when I think about how things used to be just 20 years ago

Yes the middle thats the republican party that used to lose all the time. These old Country club republicans who were fiscally conservative but socially liberal were really great. Yep old Nelson Rockefeller and Gerald Ford were really popluar. When Ronald Reagan openly invited Christians into the party, thats when it went big, taking the solid south and going other places.

[Aggie2008]

Originally posted by Lhornfan

There is no scripture that specifically states this. Therefore, it is a mystery. Does the child go to Hell or is he in limbo? Reading scripture, we see the kindness and mercy of Jesus. I would expect that God would have mercy on these children and welcome them into Heaven.

 

Scripture says that "no one is perfect, not one" and "only the righteous may enter heaven." Scripture also declares that we are born this way (Romans 1 & 2). We were born in the sin of Adam, the curse that was passed down to all mankind (Genesis 3 & Romans 4). Scripture also says the only way to be redeemed with God is through Christ. (Romans 3)

 

The evidence points the other way, in my opinion. You don't teach babies or toddlers to be selfish, they are naturally sinful. If scripture declares that the unredeemed sinners will perish (which it does) then I personally can only reach that conclusion.

[Middle]

This is absolutely absurd. Some of you think that the way to heaven is to "accept Jesus and the scripture." Just what the heck does that mean? It sounds like lazy self service.

 

What is the importance of Jesus's lessons of compassion, loyalty, love, and understanding if you're going to say "being a good person doesn't get you into heaven?"

 

Some of you need to stop thinking about yourselves are start thinking about what Jesus's message was. It was about making the world a better place, not gaining a pass into heaven. Obviously he gave up a whole lot for others; how does that not translate that we should try and give up ourselves to others, too? If you do one, the other comes automatically, not the other way around.

 

"Accepting God's son's sacrifice" is a far cry from actually trying to live like his son. I can't believe what religion has been skewed into. A bunch of literal interpretation of fallacy ridden books, instead of looking at the big picture and understanding THE MESSAGE OF GOD within the words of the books.

 

I'm sorry, I will not accept that the whole point of religion and Christianity is "to accept Jesus' sacrifice and go from there." That's an empty accomplishment and if God really is the supreme creator of everything I would hope that he would want us to aim to be the good person his son was. At least a few churches still teach that ... unlike the fundamentalist churches that seem so common today.

[Aggie2008]

As for the whole "Christian Liberal" thing, it all depends on what you consider "liberal".

 

In my opinion, in American politics, conservatives are just as immoral as liberals. Those who want same-sex marriage and abortion are just as immoral as those who neglect the poor, exploit the working class and do not share the Gospel. Jesus specifically states that "lukewarmness" is the most vile thing of all when dealing with faith issues. The modern American Conservative Evangelical community is flat-out lukewarm these days. They preach legalism and morality while maintaining racism and building up treasures on earth where "moth and rust destroy."

 

So its not an answer of 'liberal' vs 'conservative.' I don't think you could be a true follower of Christ and specifically stand for what he hates, no matter what political party or social arena you find yourself in. If you are a Christian, having died to yourself and put on the body of Christ, you will hate the things that God hates and love the things that God loves.

 

matthew 7:13-21

13"Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. 14But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.

 

15"Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. 16By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? 17Likewise every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. 19Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.

21"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' 23Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'

[Bigbobby]

What churches teach that you can "gain" salvation by the way you live your life? That is heresy.

 

The Scripture is the Complete Revelation of Jesus Christ. It is all about redemption, how can a sinful man be redeemed? It is not possible with out the Cross.

 

You talk of the big picture, the Word of God is the Big Picture.

[Middle]

So you're saying that the deeds you do in everyday life carry no weight in whether you go to heaven or not? The person that you are in the world is irrelevant?

[Bigbobby]

The way that you live "works" must have a equal balance with the faith. It is very important to be a moral person, but if you live your entire life morally, but never know the Savior you will never see heaven. That is the teaching of the Bible.

[Guest bleedsbluengold24]

Originally posted by Middle

So you're saying that the deeds you do in everyday life carry no weight in whether you go to heaven or not? The person that you are in the world is irrelevant?

 

No. I'm not telling you that. I'm telling you the Word says that. Not my words.

 

According to the Word, works alone will not get you into heaven. The acceptance of Christ as the Son of God will. When that happens, the Word adds, you become a new person with tendancies toward works. Faith without works is dead. Again, not my words.