500 Homers and A Sinking Re-Mark

[shoelessjoelives]

In less than eight seconds (just like the movie) two tarnished silver tongue stumbling mumbling former semi-idols to many have basically shut the doors to Cooperstown in their own faces with little hope of opening them in the near future.

 

The Shot Heard Round The World....Times Deux could be the title to their movie. Over 1100 home runs and eight seconds in front of the Committee leaves Raffy and Mark out in the cold.

 

Oh well, I am sure they didn't really mean to do anything wrong........and I know that many on SDC feel that way.

 

BUT .....public opinion can bring down a lot bigger men than these and it will here most likely.

[Bigbobby]

I don't think that we can compare Raffy to Mark, remember Raffy failed a test, Mark did not.

[shoelessjoelives]

Mark missed the test.....he did not want to talk about it. He might have been better served today to have used his 5th Amendment rights. He would not have been any worse off. Either way, his hand looked like it might have been in that cookie jar.........just enough.:blushing:

 

Let's see what the Hall vote shows. That is the only group that matters now.

[boytroy74]

Hey, why are we talking about this? I'm not here to talk about the past, I'm here to talk about the future.:whome:

 

Why would Mcgwire not want to talk about the past if his past was "clean." He's done everything but fail the test.

[Guest bleedsbluengold24]

Everyone who holds a record in MLB who got that record on the juice, either needs to have it revoked or an asterisk be placed by their names with an explanation.

 

These guys are ruining the game.

[TxBroadcaster]

Originally posted by shoelessjoelives

Mark missed the test.....he did not want to talk about it. He might have been better served today to have used his 5th Amendment rights. He would not have been any worse off. Either way, his hand looked like it might have been in that cookie jar.........just enough.:blushing:

 

Let's see what the Hall vote shows. That is the only group that matters now.

 

KEY WORD..LOOKED like his hand was in the cookie jar...Assuming opens up the door to assume ALL players have taken Roids in this era so NONE get in..Not Bonds, Mark, Clemens, Maddux, Glavine, NONE because NONE of those tested positive, but if your going to assume for one, you have to throw a net and assume for ALL.

[Guest]

I agree with you, Eagle. As much as I hate to say it, I think you need to let all these steroid-era guys in the HOF. You can't tell me that keeping even Palmeiro out is somehow going to clean up the image of the HOF inductees. We all know it's highly likely that MANY of them cheated, and not just with steroids. MLB needs to worry about fixing things in the future rather than trying to undo past mistakes.

[Guest bleedsbluengold24]

Originally posted by Living4Christ

I agree with you, Eagle. As much as I hate to say it, I think you need to let all these steroid-era guys in the HOF. You can't tell me that keeping even Palmeiro out is somehow going to clean up the image of the HOF inductees. We all know it's highly likely that MANY of them cheated, and not just with steroids. MLB needs to worry about fixing things in the future rather than trying to undo past mistakes.

 

But if you let juicers in you send the message that you can juice and still get in, thus, instead of cleaning up the league, you make it worse.

 

Send the message now. Today's players need to have the mindset of "If the league is serious enough about stopping the widespread use of steroids to keep Rafy and McGwire out of the HOF, then maybe I should reconsider whether or not I'm going to use."

[DaveTV1]

I don't mind that George Herman did it on Hot Dogs and Beer. I do keep in mind that Maris and Mantle had a little help from "Dr. Feelgood". Raffy, Tejada, the "Roid Brothers" McGwire and Canseco, and Barry Bonds don't have my respect. I'd put George Foster in the HOF than any of those clowns.

[TxBroadcaster]

Agian for all those saying keep the "juicers" out..I am all for it..IF THEY FAILED A TEST..IF not and unless they admit it, it is assumption and if you assume one, you must assume EVERY PLAYER..You cannot pick and choose

[shoelessjoelives]

Did they give barry a test ? no !!

 

Should they have given him one or where they told not to worry about his testing.

 

barry would do whatever he could to avoid any process that had anything to do with a test.

 

Palmeiro got tested and .....oops!!....he failed.

 

Public persona on barry is a guilty vote now anyway, so all you guys can say whatever you want but the majoity of the baseball fans in the world have already looked and made up their mind on barry................need I tell you the results ??

[BIG-DADDY]

^ I Agree, shoelessjoelives!!!!

[TxBroadcaster]

So a player's legacy should be decided based on assumption? I am sorry but that is plain BS.

[Guest bleedsbluengold24]

The fact is, the league has done its best to keep this steroid scandal under wraps. Homeruns sell tickets. McGwire and Bonds sold millions of dollars worth of 'em. Why would the league want to stop that, especially in a time when MLB was struggling for fans?

[Guest bleedsbluengold24]

Originally posted by TxEaglecaller

So a player's legacy should be decided based on assumption? I am sorry but that is plain BS.

 

If they didn't use, let them publically deny it! They either don't want to talk about the past, or can't understand English.

 

You've got your head in the sand. You've got two guys who all of the sudden look like the Incredible Hulk, who were nowhere near baseball superstars until that season, who both challenge the single season homerun record in the same season after it stood for decades.

 

This isn't rocket science.

[DaveTV1]

I used to be a big fan of Raffy. I thought he was an up and up guy. I still don't buy his B6 shot excuse, nor do I Tejada. Amazingly enough this proved what Canseco was saying. The slang term was used in his book, then Raffy who supposedly read the book says that he thought Tejada was giving him one. What I find funny is, If you need some "juice" Viagra off the field, he needed steroids on the field. Canseco seems like the only "honest" one of the bunch. But, now no one will vote for him.

 

I hope Mattingly, Fred Lynn, and Dave Parker get in they had good solid careers.

[cheaptrick77]

Originally posted by DaveTV1

I hope Mattingly, Fred Lynn, and Dave Parker get in they had good solid careers.

OOOOOOOO ... that's a whole other topic :D

 

a.k.a. "The Hall Of Very Good" :whome:

[Straw]

Originally posted by bleedsbluengold24

If they didn't use, let them publically deny it! They either don't want to talk about the past, or can't understand English.

 

You've got your head in the sand. You've got two guys who all of the sudden look like the Incredible Hulk, who were nowhere near baseball superstars until that season, who both challenge the single season homerun record in the same season after it stood for decades.

 

This isn't rocket science.

 

Im willing to bet you at least 100 other players took steriods and it did not affect or help their stats. How do we know that Cal Ripken did not take steriods? They do help heal you when you have an injury. I assume he did take it because he played so many straight games without taking a day off. Its just a matter of time until they discover 100's more that are guilty of this. Clemens, Maddox, Glavine, Rameriz....the list goes on.

[DaveTV1]

Statisically speaking they were great compared to other HOF'ers.

 

Dave Parker - 19 years .290 batting average, 2712 hits, 339 HR's, 7 All Star Apperances, 1978 NL MVP, 2 Batting Titles, 3 Silver Sluggers, 3 Gold Gloves, and was the 1979 All Star MVP.

 

Don Mattingly - 14 years, .307 Batting Average, 2153 hits, 222 HR's, 6 All Star Apperances, 1985 MLB MVP, 9 Gold Gloves, 3 Silver Sluggers, 1 Batting Title, led the league in Doubles for 3 years. I didn't realize he had 9 Gold Gloves.

 

Fred Lynn - Started out great, a rookie that one the ROY and MVP in 1975, 17 seasons, .283 Avg, 1960 hits, 306 HR's, 9 All Star Appearances, 1982 All Star MVP, 4 Gold Gloves, and 1 Batting Title.

 

I like their stats as being HOF material.

 

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[cheaptrick77]

^ It's a fun debate.

 

I'll give you Mattingly, but *IMHO* , Parker and Lynn are on that tier just below Hall Of Fame status (SEE ALSO: Al Oliver, Steve Garvey, Roger Maris, Jim Rice, Darrell Evans, etc)

 

Are there players in the HOF whom Parker and Lynn are better than? ABSOLUTELY ... but that has never been part of the equation for me.

[Guest bleedsbluengold24]

Originally posted by strawberry66

Im willing to bet you at least 100 other players took steriods and it did not affect or help their stats.

You may be right. We're not talking about the 100 other players. We're talking about McGwire and Sosa. We don't know that Ripken didn't take. There are obviously enhancements that affect the body differently than others. Look at Rafy compared to Sosa and McGwire. Nolan Ryan says that steroind use is rampant and has been since long before he retired.

 

McGwire and Sosa have made NO attempt to deny their use. You can bet it that was me, and I didn't use, I'd be in line for every test imagineable to clear my name. I would deny it before Congress. I would make sure no one thought I used. That is, if I didn't use.

[dalcow5x]

performance enhancing drugs have been a part of sports for a very long time so you cant now say that we will punish some when many have gotten away with it

in sports there are many things that are against the rules yet still allowed and performance enhancing drugs are one of those rules I wish there was a way to get rid of them but there is not you just have to hope that players respect themselves, their sport, and their fans enough to not take them but trying to stop there use by testing is driving a car a 70mph and trying to catch another car going 70mph b/c the players are many steps ahead of the testing technology

[Guest bleedsbluengold24]

Originally posted by dalcow5x

you cant now say that we will punish some when many have gotten away with it

I'm just wondering, do you think by making examples of current users by suspending users and denying enduction into the HOF the league can begin to get a handle on this?

 

We have to start somewhere. If we say "Well, people have been using for years..." then we never "start" to put an end to all of this.

[TxBroadcaster]

Originally posted by bleedsbluengold24

do you think by making examples of current users by suspending users and denying enduction into the HOF the league can begin to get a handle on this?

As long as they have tested positive..Your not doing any justice by keeping "suspected" users out of the HOF

[DaveTV1]

As long as they have tested positive..Your not doing any justice by keeping "suspected" users out of the HOF

 

It's apparent that Canseco had his hand in the proverbial "Cookie Jar". I'll take honesty over denial, anyday of the week, even if it implicates someone else. It amazes me, that Bonds is still being talked about as a Free Agent, and it took a year for Sosa to become clean, and he wants another shot.

 

Justin Gatlin is looking for his second chance as well.

 

We'll see.

 

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