GoGetta23 Posted May 8, 2007 Share Posted May 8, 2007 Count David Ortiz among those who isn't convinced Barry Bonds used illegal performance-enhancing drugs -- or if they really helped the San Francisco Giants outfielder make his run at Hank Aaron's home run record. Ortiz "To hit the ball, the guy makes it look easy, but it ain't. I don't know how you can have that swing, consistently. I don't know how steroids can do that," Ortiz told the Boston Herald. "There are supposed to be guys using steroids in the game, and there's nobody close to Barry Bonds. What's that mean? He was using the best [stuff]? Know what I'm saying?" The Boston Red Sox designated hitter told the Herald that no one has proven that Bonds knowingly used steroids or other performance-enhancing substances -- and that even if it were proven, he's not sure it has made a difference. "I don't look at it like that. I look at it hitting-wise, because I don't know what steroids can do to you as a baseball player. You've still got to swing the bat, man," Ortiz said. "If I ever use steroids, and then I know what the difference can be and I'm using them, I'll tell you, 'Yeah, whatever,' but I don't know what the feelings are when you use the steroids. But I can tell you how it feels to pull yourself together to swing the bat." In fact, Ortiz isn't 100 percent certain he hasn't taken steroids himself. He told the Herald that when he was a young player in the Dominican Republic, he used to drink protein shakes for sale there. He explained he no longer does so because he can't be sure they don't include banned substances. "I tell you, I don't know too much about steroids, but I started listening about steroids when they started to bring that [stuff] up, and I started realizing and getting to know a little bit about it," Ortiz told the Herald. "You've got to be careful. ... I used to buy a protein shake in my country. I don't do that any more because they don't have the approval for that here, so I know that, so I'm off of buying things at the GNC back in the Dominican. But it can happen anytime, it can happen. I don't know. I don't know if I drank something in my youth, not knowing it." Bonds and the Giants are scheduled to visit Fenway Park for a June 15-17 interleague series, and Ortiz told the newspaper that Bonds deserves a warmer welcome than he will probably get from Red Sox Nation. "He deserves respect," Ortiz told the Herald. "People are not going to give it to him because of all the bad things running around, this and that, but people need to realize. I've heard a lot of different things about Barry Bonds, but people should just admit it -- this guy's a bad [expletive]." And Ortiz thinks commissioner Bud Selig should commit to being on hand when Bonds breaks Aaron's major league record of 755 home runs. "He's just making things worse," Ortiz told the Herald. "He's the commissioner, there's nothing you can do about it. You can't be saying that. What are people going to think about the game? They'll be like, 'This game is a joke.' He should come, even if he doesn't want to." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckeye1980 Posted May 8, 2007 Share Posted May 8, 2007 I agree with Ortiz 100%! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldandwhite Posted May 8, 2007 Share Posted May 8, 2007 Whatever Bonds has been using, without knowing it of course, has had remarkable results (refer to the before and after photos of Bonds in another post ). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoGetta23 Posted May 8, 2007 Author Share Posted May 8, 2007 ok say he did it without knowing( which i believe in this country your innocent till proven guilty, oh but we forget about that) steroids do not help you hit a ball, just cuse you get bigger when he got older. everyone gets bigger as they get older. some people reach a point where they finnally can put on muscle alot some get it young and some get it as the get older. Alot of guys back then didnt lift and then as they got older they found out they had to lift to stay in shape and and to keep up with the younger kids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Immortal13 Posted May 8, 2007 Share Posted May 8, 2007 Yeah, and Ortiz still thinks the world is flat too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest CNOrtega Posted May 8, 2007 Share Posted May 8, 2007 Very rare I agree with a member of the Red Sox, but this is one of the times. I'm openly cheering for Bonds to shatter the record. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
findog28 Posted May 8, 2007 Share Posted May 8, 2007 I think Bonds knowingly took steroids,although im still rooting for him to break the homerun record.I blame MLB for basicly promoting steroid use.They loved all the praise and coverage during the McGwire and Sosa homerun chase,also players like Brady Anderson,Kevin Elster,Jose Canseco,Ken Caminiti who were rumored to be using steroids,and MLB did nothing.Now Bonds comes along and because he's not popular among fans,doesn't speak highly of Babe Ruth they want to crack down on him.[to heck with] MLB,and people hating on Bonds more power to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoelessjoelives Posted May 8, 2007 Share Posted May 8, 2007 He knew exactly what he was taking. You think that one of his staff of trainers would let him just grab up anstrankge bottle of something and start injecting into his system. I don't believe any of this smoke screen of lies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest texpal22 Posted May 8, 2007 Share Posted May 8, 2007 you think Bonds DID NOT know what he was taking? :rofl::rofl::rofl: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwsoftball Posted May 8, 2007 Share Posted May 8, 2007 For the score, let's go straight to....Grand Jury Testimony!! (As reported by San Fran's very own Chronicle) "Barry Bonds told a federal grand jury that he used a clear substance and a cream supplied by the Burlingame laboratory now enmeshed in a sports doping scandal, but he said he never thought they were steroids, The Chronicle has learned." "Federal prosecutors charge that the Bay Area Laboratory Co-operative, known as BALCO, distributed undetectable steroids to elite athletes in the form of a clear substance that was taken orally and a cream that was rubbed onto the body. Bonds testified that he had received and used clear and cream substances from his personal strength trainer, Greg Anderson, during the 2003 baseball season but was told they were the nutritional supplement flaxseed oil and a rubbing balm for arthritis, according to a transcript of his testimony reviewed by The Chronicle. Federal prosecutors confronted Bonds during his testimony on Dec. 4, 2003, with documents indicating he had used steroids and human growth hormone during a three-year assault on baseball's home run record, but the Giants star denied the allegations. During the three-hour proceeding, two prosecutors presented Bonds with documents that allegedly detailed his use of a long list of drugs: human growth hormone, Depo-Testosterone, undetectable steroids known as "the cream" and "the clear," insulin and Clomid, a drug for female infertility sometimes used to enhance the effect of testosterone. The documents, many with Bonds' name on them, are dated from 2001 through 2003. They include a laboratory test result that could reflect steroid use and what appeared to be schedules of drug use with billing information, prosecutors told the grand jury. In a September 2003 raid on Anderson's Burlingame home, federal investigators seized documents they said showed Bonds was using banned drugs, according to court records. Anderson was indicted in February on charges of money laundering and conspiracy to distribute steroids in the BALCO case. " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chase.colston Posted May 8, 2007 Share Posted May 8, 2007 Bingo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheaptrick77 Posted May 8, 2007 Share Posted May 8, 2007 Two Bonds apologist talking points I am REALLY tired of hearing: ”You are innocent until proven guilty" BASEBALL IS NOT A COURT OF LAW Being a Baseball player is a PRIVILEGE, not a RIGHT. ”You still have to hit the ball and have good hand-eye coordination” All Major Leaguers “hit the ball” & have good hand-eye coordination. You don’t play in the Majors unless you do – those qualities are what MAKE YOU a Major Leaguer !! If you guys can accept an unprecedented power surge late in a player's career (327 home runs after his 35th birthday) with a straight face, God bless you... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
findog28 Posted May 9, 2007 Share Posted May 9, 2007 Just admit you don't like Bonds.If steroids wasn't an issue most still wouldn't want Bonds to break the record. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Straw Posted May 9, 2007 Share Posted May 9, 2007 Originally posted by cheaptrick77 ”You are innocent until proven guilty" ”You still have to hit the ball and have good hand-eye coordination” Both talking points are valid and your rebuttals are ludacris. 1.He has a right to be treated fairly whether you feel like he should or not. 2.His hand eye is better than anybody's. Admit it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KirtFalcon Posted May 9, 2007 Share Posted May 9, 2007 He will forever be known as Mr. * Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
findog28 Posted May 9, 2007 Share Posted May 9, 2007 Originally posted by KirtFalconHe will forever be known as Mr. * I will remeber him as the homerun King. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobama Posted May 9, 2007 Share Posted May 9, 2007 Funny people want to let so many of these steroid cases off the hook, but Bonds gets all the hate. Apparently 48% of the people are rooting for him, and that's more than the media would have you believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigdawg16 Posted May 9, 2007 Share Posted May 9, 2007 If i don't respect you as a man then to me it don't matter what you accomplish. The day he is gone from baseball will be one of the best days for the sport in a long time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
findog28 Posted May 9, 2007 Share Posted May 9, 2007 Bud Selig is a clown.He's done more to harm baseball than Bonds ever will.When he leaves the game it will be one of best sports days of all time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheaptrick77 Posted May 9, 2007 Share Posted May 9, 2007 Originally posted by findog28Just admit you don't like Bonds. I neither love nor hate the man. ...and if he had shown CONSISTENT super-human power numbers throughout his career, I would gladly hold the "home run champion door" for him and shake his hand as he passes through. Nice try to pigeon-hole me, though ;) Strawberry – since you disagree with me JUST TO DISAGREE WITH ME, your “ludicrous” comment is water off a duck’s back :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Straw Posted May 9, 2007 Share Posted May 9, 2007 Originally posted by cheaptrick77Strawberry – since you disagree with me JUST TO DISAGREE WITH ME, your “ludicrous” comment is water off a duck’s back :D Come on Cheapy, I dont consider you a duck!:whome: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
findog28 Posted May 9, 2007 Share Posted May 9, 2007 SEASON Tm G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO SB CS AVG OBP SLG OPS 1986 Pit 113 413 72 92 26 3 16 48 65 102 36 7 .223 .330 .416 .746 1987 Pit 150 551 99 144 34 9 25 59 54 88 32 10 .261 .329 .492 .821 1988 Pit 144 538 97 152 30 5 24 58 72 82 17 11 .283 .368 .491 .859 1989 Pit 159 580 96 144 34 6 19 58 93 93 32 10 .248 .351 .426 .777 1990 Pit 151 519 104 156 32 3 33 114 93 83 52 13 .301 .406 .565 .971 1991 Pit 153 510 95 149 28 5 25 116 107 73 43 13 .292 .410 .514 .924 1992 Pit 140 473 109 147 36 5 34 103 127 69 39 8 .311 .456 .624 1.080 1993 SF 159 539 129 181 38 4 46 123 126 79 29 12 .336 .458 .677 1.135 1994 SF 112 391 89 122 18 1 37 81 74 43 29 9 .312 .426 .647 1.073 1995 SF 144 506 109 149 30 7 33 104 120 83 31 10 .294 .431 .577 1.008 1996 SF 158 517 122 159 27 3 42 129 151 76 40 7 .308 .461 .615 1.076 1997 SF 159 532 123 155 26 5 40 101 145 87 37 8 .291 .446 .585 1.031 1998 SF 156 552 120 167 44 7 37 122 130 92 28 12 .303 .438 .609 1.047 1999 SF 102 355 91 93 20 2 34 83 73 62 15 2 .262 .389 .617 1.006 2000 SF 143 480 129 147 28 4 49 106 117 77 11 3 .306 .440 .688 1.128 2001 SF 153 476 129 156 32 2 73 137 177 93 13 3 .328 .515 .863 1.378 2002 SF 143 403 117 149 31 2 46 110 198 47 9 2 .370 .582 .799 1.381 2003 SF 130 390 111 133 22 1 45 90 148 58 7 0 .341 .529 .749 1.278 2004 SF 147 373 129 135 27 3 45 101 232 41 6 1 .362 .609 .812 1.421 2005 SF 14 42 8 12 1 0 5 10 9 6 0 0 .286 .404 .667 1.071 2006 SF 130 367 74 99 23 0 26 77 115 51 3 0 .270 .454 .545 .999 2007 SF 28 74 23 25 3 0 10 22 30 11 1 0 .338 .528 .784 1.312 Total -- 2888 9581 2175 2866 590 77 744 1952 2456 1496 510 141 .299 .444 .610 1.054 These are Bonds career stats.The guy is great, compare his numbers with the leaders yr by yr and no doubt he's one of the greatest ever.To me you can't debate that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheaptrick77 Posted May 9, 2007 Share Posted May 9, 2007 ^ I own Total Baseball and the Baseball America Super Register, but thanks for posting his stats, anyway :D Show me where I said that he was not a great player. I have stated MANY times on SDC that he is a Hall Of Famer. That is a separate issue ... I am more concerned with the UNPRECEDENTED increase in power numbers late in his career. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
findog28 Posted May 9, 2007 Share Posted May 9, 2007 I never said you called him a bad player.My point is Bonds is a great player,and why should all others get a free pass from the steroid scrutiny,and Bonds made to suffer.Does anybody even talk about Jason Giambi anymore?If he gets a pass from the media now,so should Bonds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheaptrick77 Posted May 9, 2007 Share Posted May 9, 2007 ^ because Giambi and others are not about to break a sacred Baseball record. Again -- separate issues. I don't think Bonds was the only one, nor do I think MLB and Bud Selig should get a “free pass” on the issue. As a BASEBALL FAN, it is going to KILL ME INSIDE to see 755 broken under a cloud of suspicion. I guess not enough casual fans understand that :no: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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