All Region/All State

[cesarsoccer]

I find it interesting that someone would think that the fourth best player on their own team deserves to be amongst the top players in the entire region.

 

24 teams from each 4A region make the playoffs. There are 11 starters per team which means there are 264 starters per region for playoff caliber teams (presumably above average teams). Only 27 players from each region recieve All-Region honors. This means 10% of the starters on the 24 playoff caliber teams recieve the honor of All-Region. So what you're saying is that you believe a kid may be in the 27th percentile on their own team(4th best player out of 11), but the 10th percentile of their entire region (top 27 out of 264)?...

 

...Now, with that being said, I'm not saying that you're 4th best player isn't better than someone who recieved the honor. What I'm saying is that you're 4th best player isn't better than a lot of teams best player that didn't get a chance because their coach didn't nominate them.

 

This brings me back to my original point, the coaches who don't nominate deserving kids are the problem behind the system. Not the system itself.

[12fan18]

we have coaches here in East Texas that either havent joined or are members and dont nominate there athletes. I would love to know what coaches in the pine tree district didn't nominate anyone. I hear from our coach that not a one out of this district put there kids up for all region. I would be e :thumbdown: mbarassed if I was part of this district.

 

 

I've been dumbfounded, upset and disappointed since all-region came out. I don't know whats worse, to have your players nominated and not selected, or to find out your players were never nominated and never given the chance to be voted on. Either way, the silence from this district is ..deafening.

[QueenHornet]

I agree with Cesar that it is the coaches that DON'T EVEN NOMINATE THEIR OWN that is the

problem not the system itself. I am pretty sure that All Region/All State voting is NOT the

only reason why coaches are members of TASCO. They are members because it is an

organization for high school soccer coaches. If you haven't realized it but alot of people

here in East Texas are upset as well but not for the same reason. They are more hurt

that their team, Lindale boys for example had one of the best years in school history and

NOT ONE PLAYER on their team was even nominated! It is just very hard to understand. Those

guys deserved it. I'm sure that they aren't the only team that didn't get any honors but

still it is tough.

 

FHSFAN -Why even have the selections if coaches can nominate all of their "all stars"

That would mean absolutely nothing to anyone. Just because Friendswood had a

great year doesn't mean that everyone on their team should be up for All Region.

GEEZ!

[OREOFAN]

963845' date='May 16 2008, 11:59 AM']The system IS flawed because it arbitrarily limits to 3 the number of players who can make All-Region from one team. A coach who truly believes that he or she has more than 3 deserving players cannot nominate them.

 

And, as illustrated by the case this year of FHS girls (and other teams, #6 from Whitehouse strikes me as someone who surely deserved to be on the All-Region team in lieu of several of the chosen forwards, but she was not even nominated because of the arbitrary limit), it is certainly possible, if not likely, that the best teams will have more than 3 players who deserve to be nominated and even selected.

 

Any system for nominating and selecting an All-Anything team that operates to arbitrarily exclude from consideration players who deserve, because of their on the field performance, to be on the team, and that allows undeserving players (YES, there are a number of undeserving players -- as discussed in my earlier post; which no one has seen fit to refute) is seriously flawed.

 

Catsfan, what is ridiculous is to try to justify such a seriously flawed system by arguing that coaches who are called upon to vote are too apathetic, or haven't eduacted themselves, or might have balk at having to read 5 or more pages. If the TASCO members are ALL that lame, then don't do it at all. I happen to think that there are plenty of coaches who are not that lame. And, wouldn't it be better to get votes from only those coaches who are truly committed and have taken the time to inform themselves before casting a vote?

 

From what I have been told, the real reason for this flawed system is found in the rule that only coaches who are TASCO members may nominate and vote on players. By limiting to 3 the number of players who can be nominated from any one team, TASCO ensures that a greater number of teams have representatives on the All-Region teams (even if the players from those fringe teams are less deserving than players from the stronger teams who were not nominated because of the 3 player nomination limit). The "carrot" of being able to nominate and get players voted into the slots that are quasi-reserved for fringe players increases the pressure on those coaches to join TASCO, and to PAY their annual dues to TASCO. If that is how it works, then the whole process is nothing but a marketing ploy, as opposed to a true all-star selection, and will never be changed because it generates membership revenue for TASCO. That is almost like selling the "All-Region" spots.

FHSFan1 all I can tell you is you “can’t sweat the small stuff”! I understand all to well how you feel and no the system is not fair, there are some good girls that are over looked year after year in their respected district, areas, regions etc...

 

 

The #6 girl that you mentioned from Whitehouse was injured in the first game of the year against Henderson; it was a scrimmage of all things. She attempted to play half of the season in some pain and when she had enough she had to have minor knee surgery “if there is such a thing” and ended up missing most of the second half of the season. She came back in time for the Lindale game and played all the way through playoffs until we met our fait. Yes, that would be Friendswood! Although she had a strong finish her efforts to support her team were not enough to be acknowledge as her coach said she did not play in enough games. I am sure the other coaches in her district/ region had no idea what she went through to even consider her for an “honorable mention”.

 

 

However, with that being said, I can thank you for acknowledging her; you truly put a smile on her face when I had her read your post. It is difficult when you play with such a talented group of girls and as for Whitehouse, she follows a very talented group of seniors and I promise you she would give up any acknowledgement if it meant they were coming back next year!

 

 

FHSFan1 all is not lost the good news is she has caught the attention of the right coach in that she has given a verbal to a Division I school is the SEC and I am sure yours will do the same.

 

 

[FHSFan1]

Cesar (and Catsfan), you can consider it "interesting" all you want, and offer statistics, but there really is no reasonable dispute that that there were far more than 3 players from FHS this year who who were among the top 27 players in the Region (or, really, the top 8 at their position). They beat every top team in the Region by overwhelming margins on both the scoreboard and on the field, and their players consistently won the individual battles at every point on the field (forward, midfield, defender) against the very players who have been selected in their stead as All-Region players. And, since it is the system that mandates that only 3 players from FHS (or Whitehouse) can be nominated, the system is flawed. That is not to say that there are not other problems -- such as coaches of great teams not nominating anyone.

 

#6 parent, I was not aware of your daughter's injury, but she looked to be back in great form by the time the playoffs rolled around. Her play against LC was outstanding -- our girls watched and identified her as the catalyst for the Whitehouse offense. My daughter's good friend drew the assignment of marking #6 during the regional final, and reported afterward that your daughter was fast, skilled, surprisngly strong, and really nice.

[eaglepride09]

DANG!!!!!!!! Reading all these posts from ppl are whack. I cant believe that ppl will dog on a teams coach like that. That is messed up! Mayb those coaches didnt think that any1 was good enough to be nominated. Yea we had a super hot year in Lindale but we werent the best team in texas by any means. I think we are going to 4 sure b back next year. Now we know what we got and we can do it.

 

 

I have heard ppl talk bout this website but this is off the hook. I had no idea that so many ppl discussed soccer all the time. I mean u ppl discuss everything. The good, the bad, and the ugly.

[toohottohandle]

I doubt #6 is good enough to play in the SEC but good luck living that dream.

 

What is whack is that you think that you didnt have a player good enough to be nominated in the region. your coach should have nominated the twins and that other fast kid but I guess he doesn't care for you guys to much. sorry coach if you ask me and a shame he didnt step up for his palyers. for lindale to have a season like that and there coach to not care to nominate for all region...........just plain sorry if you ask me. good luck next year

[cesarsoccer]

They beat every top team in the Region by overwhelming margins on both the scoreboard and on the field, and their players consistently won the individual battles at every point on the field (forward, midfield, defender) against the very players who have been selected in their stead as All-Region players.

 

This isn't a team award. Their maybe some teams that made the playoffs because they had 1-2 great players that willed them along. Just because they didn't make it to the regional finals or the state tourney doesn't mean they don't deserve the honor of All-Region. This means that they weren't blessed with the situation of having 10-12 really good players playing along side them.

 

My point is you didn't see every kid play and you don't know if their are others that are more deserving or not. Their is likely at least a dozen players from each region that were deserving, but didn't recieve the honor because their coach didn't give them the opportunity (including the 3 from FHS that would have almost certainly recieved the honor had their coach nominated them).

[FHSFan1]

Cesar, you have no idea what you are talking about, and you really need to improve your reading comprehension.

 

With the exception of the girl from Lumberton, I watched every girl on the Region III team play at least two games this past year, and some of them I watched more frequently than that. There are at least 3, and probably as many as 5, FHS players who did not even get a chance to be nominated (because of the arbitrary limit) who were far better players than several girls who were actually chosen. That's a fact.

 

AH (forward), SB (midfield) and BH (defender) of FHS were all deserving for sure, and IMO, so were DM (midfield) and CR (defender).

 

And, too hot, I think you are wrong about #6 from Whitehouse. She's a heck of a good player.

[cesarsoccer]

My point is you didn't see every kid play and you don't know if their are others that are more deserving or not. Their is likely at least a dozen players from each region that were deserving, but didn't recieve the honor because their coach didn't give them the opportunity (including the 3 from FHS that would have almost certainly recieved the honor had their coach nominated them).

 

 

Cesar, you have no idea what you are talking about, and you really need to improve your reading comprehension.

 

With the exception of the girl from Lumberton, I watched every girl on the Region III team play at least two games this past year, and some of them I watched more frequently than that. There are at least 3, and probably as many as 5, FHS players who did not even get a chance to be nominated (because of the arbitrary limit) who were far better players than several girls who were actually chosen. That's a fact.

 

I wasn't referring to individuals who made the Region III team. I was referring to players who didn't make the team whom you haven't seen play. Hence the statement, "didn't recieve the honor."

 

You sound ignorant and biased and I strongly suggest you cease to speak on the matter to avoid further embarassment.

 

[FHSFan1]

So, Cesar, when your arguments are shown to be lacking in logic and reasoning, you resort to personal attacks? And, fairly lame ones at that! To think that I had such high hopes for you.

 

In fact, I (and, I think, plenty of others) have seen and read more than enough this past year to be able to form educated opinions about who are the best players in the region. I understand that you may not have educated yourself enough to form such an opinion, but don't paint everyone with that broad a brush -- we don't all work on the loading dock with you (so to speak) and don't operate under your limitations.

 

You seem to have difficulty understanding that my complaint is with a system that arbitrarily limits to 3 the number of nominees from a given team. If a coach thinks he or she has more than 3 desrving players, let the coach nominate more than 3 players and let the market decide who gets selected. As others have pointed out, there are other flaws in the system.

 

Oddly enough, your point that there may be other serving nominees out there on teams other than FHS actually supports my argument that nominations should not be limited (by number per team, based upon the "member" status of the coach, or other reasons). It also underscores my personal opinion that a number of this year's better, more deserving, players were left off of this year's All-Region. I have identifed several players from FHS, and one from Whitehouse, who I think were deserving based upon my having watched them play, and comparing their play to that of the players who were nominated and selected, and the play of other players from the best teams in the region this past year.

[sawemoff]

SDC and TASCO have no connection. complain to tasco now smoaky. this has gone on far too long and the same things are being said over and over and over again

[opusnbill]

I wasn't referring to individuals who made the Region III team. I was referring to players who didn't make the team whom you haven't seen play. Hence the statement, "didn't recieve the honor."

 

You sound ignorant and biased and I strongly suggest you cease to speak on the matter to avoid further embarassment.

You got that right. Every post is tainted by the blue shades FHS apparently wears. It's an imperfect system. Several players this year (like last) were chosen for All State that should not have made it, there were players who made All Region who probably should not have, and there were possibly some who did not even make All Region and should have. Don't agree, though, that #6 (who plays up top and in the midfield at times) is better than any of the others who made All Region in those positions.

[bnm5476]

even though you may think that the system if flawed and that you do not get the amount of votes that the team deserves...

 

have you ever taken into account that some players DO LOOK AT THIS MESSAGE BOARD and that what you are saying about players not being deserving of what they have been nominated for and have been selected for.. is read?

 

ALL PLAYERS work their butts off every season for district and playoffs.. and to say that a player is not deserving of what they have been given is completely uncalled for... yes some coaches don't vote.. and that is their own fault.. but DO NOT tear down the players who have been given this honor by saying that they would not even start on other teams..

 

i personally know alot of players and know that alot of them are upset by what they have read... yes friendswood went to state.. congratulations.. im glad ya'll are stacked with club and odp players..east texas is not fortunate enough to have that.. im sorry ALL of your players were not nominated.. but DO NOT take away from what other players have earned.. alot of the players that did not get all-region and all-state have more years to play and get nominated for this postion.. to argue about this is pointless.. the list has already been made for this year.. i suggest you talk to your soccer coach and try again next year.

[FHSFan1]

Opus (a name that fits you perfectly btw), it is you who show your ignorance (and jealousy) every time you post. There is no possibly about it. A number of the best players in the Region who were deserving to be All-Region (including the very best player in the region) did not even get the chance to be considered -- that is the point. And, yes, the system is imperfect -- which is also my point. Where I come from, imperfections get fixed, not accepted as something with which to learn to live.

 

Bnm, you really need to read the prior posts before you comment. My point is not that the FHS girls did not get votes . . . it is that only 3 of them were allowed to be nominated; which left a number of the best players in the region without the opportunity to be considered. And, talking to the coach will not help because she will still be limited to three nominations unless TASCO changes this stupid rule.

 

And, you are wrong. First, all players do NOT work their butts off. That's just a stupid statement. Second, many of the players who were selected on the Region 3 4A All-Region team are NOT the best players on the region -- they were chosen because the rule about which I am complaining kept many of the best players in the region from even being considered. That's a fact, and I am sorry if the truth does not suit you. How about you show some concern for those girls who did not get the chance?

[dualdellortos]

FHSfan1 -

 

Keeping in mind that I am friends with the Peter's and that I have always enjoyed the friendly rivalry between our two schools, I believe the point Opus and bnm are really trying to emphasize here is that you probably can attack the system and its flaws without pointing out, repeatedly, that some players were undeserving.

 

I believe that stating that the TASCO rules did not allow some deserving players to be nominated and that the rules should be changed doesn't tarnish those who did receive the award, as opposed to implying that inferior or undeserving players players received honors as you did in some of your posts.

 

They are merely arguing a point of semantics.

 

It's already June so let's put this baby to rest and good luck next season!

 

 

 

[soccerspectator]

Just as an aside, FHS Fan, the organization is TASCO--Texas Assoc of Soccer COACHES--not Parents. It is a proffessional organization for high school soccer coaches. Its rules can only be changed by its membership. The best chance you have to change these rules for all region and all state nominations is thru YOUR soccer coach (if they are a member!) If they are not a member, I would be riding their butt until they joined and were being an active advocate for your school and its players. Every other complaint and personal attack is just hot air and a waste of everyones time.

 

[FHSFan1]

Dual, I have tried to avoid comparing players, but I kind of have to when others have challenged my generally stated proposition that some of the best and most deserving players were not given an opportunity to be considered. Frankly, I know of no other way to explain my position, and your real complaint should be with those people whose challenges require such an explanation.

 

SS, you are wrong -- as usual. I have not personally attacked anyone except for you and opus types who have attacked me. The FHS coaches are both TASCO members -- which should have been obvious to anyone who knows what they are talking about since FHS kids were on the teams. And, I think a forum like this does lots more to effect change than talking to a lone coach.

[soccerspectator]

Great! You have 2 members of TASCO right in your backyard to work with in changing the rules that you are in disagreement with. They are your best bet. Never have I attacked you, your team or your players personally. I was just trying to point you the right direction to accomplish the changes you desire. I have no hidden agenda; my kids do and will play at a 5A school. You are obviously passionate about this topic and have posted at length on this topic. I just hate to see anyone waste so much time and energy on a forum when it would be better served pointed in a more useful direction.

[FHSFan1]

And who made you the decider (to quote GB) of what is wasted effort and where my effort would be better served.

 

Frankly, I think that my posts on this topic have reached far more people (including Dual who has far more influence than ANY other TASCO member) and caused more thoughtful consideration of this issue than simply talking to our HS coaches. And, what makes you so sure that I have not done so anyway?

[soccerspectator]

Reread this entire thread. It is anything BUT "thoughtful consideration of this issue"

 

I'm done.

[Eagle88]

FHSFAN1,

 

Are the girls who received recognition at the state tournament giving back the recognition they received. Probably not. What about the McKinney Boyd girls who were not named all-tournament. Should the FHS girls send them their awards?

 

And yes, I saw that match and several others. Your point is well made. The system is not perfect. No system is. But I bet that when it is in your favor, you have no problem with the outcome.

[FHSFan1]

Actually, SS, you were done before you started. In fact, anyone who reviews this thread will see that many (not all) of the posts on this thread have been quite thoughtful, and it has, at least, given TASCO something to think about.

 

Eagle, I agree with the principle behind what you say, but I disagree with your unspoken presumption that any of the FHS players who made the All-Tourney team were not deserving, or that any Boyd players who did not make the team were deserving. But, if you feel strongly about it, you should say so rather than accusing me of something that is not true.

[junhun]

My gosh! I hope that your daughter doesn't play on that team. How embarassing of HER OWN PARENT to continually say how undeserving her teammates are of the award. I can't believe that you guys are still carrying on about this same complaint over and over.

[FHSFan1]

Nice job junhun, right after I talk about how thoughtful many of the posts have been in this thread you offer your 2 cents. I am sure I will regret this, but what on earth are you taking about?

 

Certainly, I have never said that any FHS kids are underserving of any awards. What I have said is that more than the 3 FHS kids who were recognized were deserving of being recognized. There's a BIG difference, and its not really a subtle difference. You should have gotten it.