Jump to content

Controversial call at LE game


viperball

Recommended Posts

The play was a force out at home. I saw a photo, as well as what I saw in person, the ball was in the catchers mitt and the girl from Huntington was about 2 feet from home plate. In the photo, the umpire was signaling out, after that, the player slid into the catcher, taking her feet from under her, as she hit the ground, the ball fell out.

My question is, "On a force play, why would the umpire reverse her call after the fact" The catcher did not have to tag the runner and the dropped ball was after the call was made and the catcher had her feet taken from under her.

Anyone have an opinion on this, especially Umpires??

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 59
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

I was there, it was bad...There is a photo in the Austin newspaper showing the play and the ball is still not on the ground, she was easily out. Here's a question for you: The umpire and the opposing coach say that the ball was bobbled, if the catcher was bobbling the ball, why in the world did she call her out in the first place??? This poor ump is wrong now no matter what she says, she was either wrong in the first place and then REVERSED HERSELF ON A FORCE OUT CALL ( BAD) or she was correct in the first place then changed to a wrong call, admitting she got it wrong in the first place,(STILL BAD) she can't win the argument no matter what she say's. She would have been better off to stay with the original call, at least she would have a defendable posistion. Considering this was a Texas State Championship Game, you would think they would at least find some seasoned umpires, we don't expect GOOD umps in girls softball just fair, we can't even count on that in the State Championship game. Pretty sad way for a State Champ to be decided.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I would have to agree. Competent umpires would have stuck with the original call whether right or wrong. At least it would have given neither team an edge. It would still have been scoreless. Neither team would have had to rally. And we would still probably be playing today. Not saying either team was the better of the two, but I would rather have gotten thrashed than to have lost on a call that was changed after it was made. I dont recall an umpire ever changing his/her mind about a strike. Maybe it is just me. I only played Baseball for 18 years but when there is a force out, if there is control when the bag is stepped on, the runner is out. Incidental contact knocking the ball out does not matter at that point. It is at the moment the base is tagged. the ump blew this one and it cost our girls the single biggest game of their lives, not just the season.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I too was at the game (sitting about 20 feet down 3rd base line) and have viewed the play multiple time on KTRE website. The timing of the play was bang bang.The lead thread said; "as she hit the ground, the ball fell out." This is not correct! The ball came loose as soon as the catcher lost her feet and well before the catcher contacted the ground. I agree the throw beat the runner, but the catcher did not maintain posession for any reasonable amount of time. The runner may have forced the contact, but the catcher positioned herself in such a way (both feet together on plate) to allow the contact to happen. In this case the blue made the correct call!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

snowbird,

 

as a former Lady Leopard softball player as of yesterday. I would like to ask you were you even at the game? did you see the call wait CALLS!?? Heather (our catcher) had the ball way before the girl started to slide the umpire yelled out! then took it away.. as well as a pop up kaylee treas dove for but yet the same umpire said it touched the ground but it didn't. pictures say alot. And our stick zone from when we were batting and they were batting come on!! i had a third strike call on me that was over the other batting boxes line.. i couldnt have hit it with a flag pole.and pitches that was almost hitting us were strikes.. but changed for the other team! Now im not taking nothing away from that team they were good.. their pitcher was decent im my opinion not better than lacey and alot of people in the STATE of TEXAS agree with me.. MVP always goes to the winning teams pitcher take a look at the pattern.. Once again im not taking nothing away from them they were good.. But i just wish we would have had a fair chance.. It was our dream too and we never even had a chance at it.. not only did we have to beat the other team but the home plate umpire (who controls the game) Once again hunnigton is a great team and they deserved it every bit as much as we did.. But in a STATE GAME we should get good umpires thats not laughing and joking around with one catcher.. and then telling our catcher after calling the girl safe.. "TO CHECK THE REPLAY AFTER THE GAME!".. fair is fair.. But at LE we have good sportsmanship and we belive whats ment to be is gonna be.. and it just wasnt. ANd as far as im concerend im proud of my team cus with that kinda of calling 1 to 0 is good! I love you girls we made history and proved everyone wrong. Lacey your the best in texas not just in 3a good luck next year :)

 

Oh and snowbird..

 

This is the 2nd baseman Nicki Spangler..

 

now r u brave enough to tell who u r after bashing my team??

 

 

 

i copyed and pasted so snow bird would be sure to see it :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You state the entire play correctly, Bang-Bang, the first Bang is the ball being caught, the other Bang in a force out situation doesn't matter..the play is already over. Good job Huntington in the game and the season, I would have liked it if your team and our team could have decided the outcome between the two of us instead of the umpires.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I too was at the game (sitting about 20 feet down 3rd base line) and have viewed the play multiple time on KTRE website. The timing of the play was bang bang.The lead thread said; "as she hit the ground, the ball fell out." This is not correct! The ball came loose as soon as the catcher lost her feet and well before the catcher contacted the ground. I agree the throw beat the runner, but the catcher did not maintain posession for any reasonable amount of time. The runner may have forced the contact, but the catcher positioned herself in such a way (both feet together on plate) to allow the contact to happen. In this case the blue made the correct call!

 

The girl was out, the 20-year-old umlpire blew the call. It happens. It happened in the 2A championship game only hours earlier. I don't think she made a bad call intentionally, but she missed it. If you call it like you see it, most will tell you the umpire missed the call. It was a force out. What if the play had been at first. As soon as the first baseman caught the ball it would be an out. That's what should have happened at home plate in the third inning. Huntington is a great team and had a great season, but its state championship will always, always have a blemish on it as far as people outside Huntington are concerned.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You state the entire play correctly, Bang-Bang, the first Bang is the ball being caught, the other Bang in a force out situation doesn't matter..the play is already over. Good job Huntington in the game and the season, I would have liked it if your team and our team could have decided the outcome between the two of us instead of the umpires.

 

Bang Bang, as in catch then contact. Even in a force situation, control of the ball must be demonstrated!

I repeat, the correct call was made. The ball was loose before the catcher was on ground. The correct team won on a close call at home. Glad I'm not a blue!

 

Congrats LE on a great season.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The girl was out, the 20-year-old umlpire blew the call. It happens. It happened in the 2A championship game only hours earlier. I don't think she made a bad call intentionally, but she missed it. If you call it like you see it, most will tell you the umpire missed the call. It was a force out. What if the play had been at first. As soon as the first baseman caught the ball it would be an out. That's what should have happened at home plate in the third inning. Huntington is a great team and had a great season, but its state championship will always, always have a blemish on it as far as people outside Huntington are concerned.

 

Do you want some cheese to go with your whine? What excuses did you make for the losses earllier this year? Give me a break!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Bang Bang, as in catch then contact. Even in a force situation, control of the ball must be demonstrated!

I repeat, the correct call was made. The ball was loose before the catcher was on ground. The correct team won on a close call at home. Glad I'm not a blue!

 

Congrats LE on a great season.

 

first the ball was not loose before she hit the ground, second I'm glad your not a blue either, and I repeat the correct call was not made, cause in this force situation control of the ball was demonstrated!

 

from ktre9

 

"After Mallory Brandenburg walked to open the 3rd, Kaitlyn Ivy and Presley Modisette followed with back to back sacrifice bunts, that evenually loaded the bases. Katie Mills followed with a grounder to 3rd, and as the play came home, Brandenburg was originally called out on the force, only to have the play reversed, when the catcher dropped the ball.

 

"I just put my whole body into her, and she fell right on her face and the ball came loose," commented Brandenburg on the play at home, "when I saw her drop the ball, I just became so excited, and it was the best feeling ever."

 

so the runner that slide into her even said "she fell on her face and the ball came loose"

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Do you want some cheese to go with your whine? What excuses did you make for the losses earllier this year? Give me a break!

 

Why would the Austin paper say it was a contreversial call if it wasnt? They should not have a bias to either team and thats the way they reported it! Your team won and congrats to them, does that take the blemish away from there victory? Not in alot of eyes around Texas.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Why would the Austin paper say it was a contreverial call if it wasnt? They should not have a bias to either team and thats the way they reported it! Your team won and congrats to them, does that take the blemish away from there victory? Not in alot of eyes around Texas.

Surely everyone knows the media hate to cause, create, or report on a controversial event!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Surely everyone knows the media hate to cause, create, or report on a controversial event!

 

Yeah I am sure there is a high demand for the Austin paper in Texarkana and Huntington! You should have came up with a better one than that, like the sports editor for the Austin paper is a LE grad.

 

Everyone knows the LE people seen it one way and Huntington people seen it another so that is why I will stick with an unbiased reporter from the Austin paper that reported on a softball game!!!!!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The girl was out, the 20-year-old umlpire blew the call. It happens. It happened in the 2A championship game only hours earlier. I don't think she made a bad call intentionally, but she missed it. If you call it like you see it, most will tell you the umpire missed the call. It was a force out. What if the play had been at first. As soon as the first baseman caught the ball it would be an out. That's what should have happened at home plate in the third inning. Huntington is a great team and had a great season, but its state championship will always, always have a blemish on it as far as people outside Huntington are concerned.

 

 

mrknowitall-

I tend to agree with you about 90% of the time but to say that State Championship will always have a blemish is ABSURD. Many a game has come down to a close call and yet they are not tarnished. I am sure LE has even been on the other end before. I know that in my coaching days I have both won and lost a game that came down to controversial calls. You have to win and lose with grace. I always tell my players that things like this usually happened because you put yourself in a tough spot to begin with. For instance, LE allowing Huntington to load the bases had nothing to do with the umpire. Huntington made some plays/ LE didn't that put them in that spot. You make the plays before and you are never in that situation. I have nothing to do with either team. They are both great teams. But make no mistake, Huntington is the 3A State Champions and they earned it. They out hit LE and made no errors. UIL and everyone outside of LE will ALWAYS recognize them as 2008 State Champions and deservedly so.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yeah I am sure there is a high demand for the Austin paper in Texarkana and Huntington! You should have came up with a better one than that, like the sports editor for the Austin paper is a LE grad.

 

Everyone knows the LE people seen it one way and Huntington people seen it another so that is why I will stick with an unbiased reporter from the Austin paper that reported on a softball game!!!!!

 

 

Please let it be known now that all unbiased reporting in the State of Texas will be done by the Austin paper.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Go to KTRE.com........watch the play using your mouse to pause video. It all unfolds at the same second. The right call was made.............LE was the best team(in my opinion) that Huntington faced all year. They could replay that game ten times and it could be 5-5........

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Please let it be known now that all unbiased reporting in the State of Texas will be done by the Austin paper.

 

Well lets see, I would think that Huntington people would think the Texarkana paper(LE) would be biased to LE and LE people would believe the Huntington paper would be biased to Huntington....so my point was that the Austin paper should not be biased to either school or town....hopefully that broke it down enough for even you to understand.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

mrknowitall-

I tend to agree with you about 90% of the time but to say that State Championship will always have a blemish is ABSURD. Many a game has come down to a close call and yet they are not tarnished. I am sure LE has even been on the other end before. I know that in my coaching days I have both won and lost a game that came down to controversial calls. You have to win and lose with grace. I always tell my players that things like this usually happened because you put yourself in a tough spot to begin with. For instance, LE allowing Huntington to load the bases had nothing to do with the umpire. Huntington made some plays/ LE didn't that put them in that spot. You make the plays before and you are never in that situation. I have nothing to do with either team. They are both great teams. But make no mistake, Huntington is the 3A State Champions and they earned it. They out hit LE and made no errors. UIL and everyone outside of LE will ALWAYS recognize them as 2008 State Champions and deservedly so.

 

I am not from LE but, have played, coached and umpired for 30 years, all as a volunteer, but at levels about as advanced as you can get before you have to decide to do it for a living ( I didn't go into coaching because it takes 20 years to finally get to making some money and if your the baseball coach you never get to be the AD, at least not in Northeast Texas) Whether the title is blemished or not is up to each to decide for themselves, in five years no one outside of Huntington will remember who won the game anyway. The main topic of discussion on the 3a State Softball Championship of 2008 will be the reversal of the call at home plate, whether you think it was botched or not. I don't care what she called the play, any umpire worth his or her salt will always stick to their first instinct, especially on a force out. She reversed herself, therefore casting doubt on the play, to everyone except folks in Huntington, I guess doubt could be translated as a blemish. No matter which side you fall on, you have to agree that she should have went with her first call, what ever that may have been, then no one would have any problem. We could have all then just complained about the call, not the validity of it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I too was at the game (sitting about 20 feet down 3rd base line) and have viewed the play multiple time on KTRE website. The timing of the play was bang bang.The lead thread said; "as she hit the ground, the ball fell out." This is not correct! The ball came loose as soon as the catcher lost her feet and well before the catcher contacted the ground. I agree the throw beat the runner, but the catcher did not maintain posession for any reasonable amount of time. The runner may have forced the contact, but the catcher positioned herself in such a way (both feet together on plate) to allow the contact to happen. In this case the blue made the correct call!

 

If there is a force out coming to home, how else is the catcher supposed to position herself other than on the plate to catch the ball??

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If there is a force out coming to home, how else is the catcher supposed to position herself other than on the plate to catch the ball??

 

well u would like the catcher to postion themselves like a first baseman if possible, one foot on plate and as soon as you make the catch remove the foot to avoid any collision

 

This also allows for the infielder to see the catcher and throw to her and not into the runner

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well lets see, I would think that Huntington people would think the Texarkana paper(LE) would be biased to LE and LE people would believe the Huntington paper would be biased to Huntington....so my point was that the Austin paper should not be biased to either school or town....hopefully that broke it down enough for even you to understand.

 

 

I understood you the first....and second time. That was just one man's opinion just like yours and mind. And I would consider the umpire to be unbiased; maybe she will write an article for the Austin paper.

 

Another poster wrote:

 

"No matter which side you fall on, you have to agree that she should have went with her first call, what ever that may have been, then no one would have any problem. We could have all then just complained about the call, not the validity of it."

 

I would have to say that she should have made the correct call, whatever that may have been. If the first call in a situation is not correct, then she should have changed it.

 

Remember she was a lot closer to the play than anyone else in the stadium.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Watched the video, again, all I see is the catcher catching the ball, which no one here seems to debate happening. Whatever happens post catching of the ball, as far as that out is concerned is irrelevant, you're already out(even called out by the ump) you should be sliding in hard to keep a double play from accuring, the second out is the one you should be trying to prevent. But upon the catch of the ball, the runner coming to that particular base is out, period. It's a botched call, of course that's on the second call of the same play, I would like to commend her for getting it correct the first time.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now



×
×
  • Create New...